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CNN NEWSROOM

U.S. Rebels Now Represent Syria; CNN Sees Syrian Chemical Plant; Marking 12-12-12; World Reacts to North Korea's Rocket Launch; Rhino Horn Smuggling on the Rise

Aired December 12, 2012 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL. I'm Suzanne Malveaux. We're taking you around the world in 60 minutes. Here's what's going on right now.

President Obama no longer sees Bashar al Assad as the real representative of the Syrian people. The rebels who are fighting to overthrow Assad are now legitimate enough and organized enough to act as a bona fide government. That is according to President Obama. Several countries in Europe, and the Persian Gulf, already recognize the opposition fighters as the people's true representatives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Syrian opposition coalition is now inclusive enough, is reflective and representative enough of the Syrian population that we consider them the legitimate representative of the Syrian people in opposition to the Assad regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: Want to bring in Hala Gorani from CNN International.

What does that mean exactly when he is recognizing now the opposition as the true, legitimate representatives of the people who are there?

HALA GORANI, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, essentially it's what he said, that Bashar al Assad, as the U.S. has repeated over and over again, is not the representative of the Syrian people. The U.S. and other western countries have called on Bashar al Assad to step down. Concretely, it is a diplomatic move. It was expected.

What it doesn't change -- and this is what the rebels and the opposition want -- is whether or not they get more money and more arms. And they're saying, in their meeting with the Friends of Morocco Group -- Friends of Syria Group in Morocco right now, they're saying recognition is fine. But what we want is we want weapons and we want more money. And right now they're not getting it from the west.

MALVEAUX: So the U.S. is not going to give them either one of those things. Do they completely sever ties with Assad? I mean how does that relationship change, if at all?

GORANI: Well, those -- that relationship has been essentially moribund for the last several months. There's been no ambassador there. There have been sanctions imposed on the regime. There's no diplomatic, economic or political relationship with the regime of Bashar al Assad with the United States. So it doesn't really change anything on that level.

What that means is that we're inching closer and closer to this government in exile, if you will, as being recognized by France, the U.K., Turkey, Gulf Cooperation Council countries and now the United States as the legitimate representative of the Syrian people.

MALVEAUX: OK. So this is going to complicate things, because now, at the same time, you've got the State Department saying that a small portion of the rebels are terrorists. They are linked to al Qaeda.

GORANI: That they're jihadists. Yes.

MALVEAUX: How does that complicate the situation? The U.S. is trying to support, right --

GORANI: Yes.

MALVEAUX: Support the rebels. The president says this is a legitimate organization, the government, and yet you've got terrorists inside on the ground as part of the rebel forces.

GORANI: These jihadi fighting forces, these are the guys on the ground that are making the rebel advances, by the way. When you hear of rebel advances being made in and around Damascus, when you hear of a big army base outside of Aleppo being overtaken by rebels, these are these fighting forces that had training in Iraq, the jihadi. Some of them are foreigners. It's a small component of the rebel fighting force, but it's the one that's making advances.

The head of the opposition group, Moaz al-Khatib, is criticizing the U.S. for designating this rebel group as a terrorist force, perhaps because he doesn't want to be seen as a puppet of the United States.

And, by the way, the U.S. is now inviting the head of the rebel -- of the opposition, the political opposition, to Washington. It is a complication. And I think rebels on the ground, and the political opposition, wished that the U.S. hadn't done it so soon.

MALVEAUX: What does this mean for the people?

GORANI: Well, for the -- I think the people -- as we were hearing, and I know you're going to be speaking with Arwa Damon -- see this Nusra, it's this Jabhat al Nusra, the Nusra Front, as a fighting force that they have to thank for some of those rebel advances. And some of them are saying the U.S. shouldn't have done this. Others are very worried that once the regime falls, who's going to want control? It's going to be the jihadist groups. So we'll see.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you, Hala, appreciate it.

GORANI: Yes. MALVEAUX: Something triggered a new flurry of diplomacy and this movement against the Assad regime. And that something is this. Believable reports that the Syrian military was possibly getting ready to use chemical weapons against the rebels. Everyone, even Russia, warned Syria not to do it.

Well, now you're about to see this exclusive to CNN. Our camera crew inside Syria got dangerously close to a chemical weapons production plant. The Syrian government doesn't want us to see this. They make that very clear.

I want you to watch this report from Arwa Damon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARWA DAMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In most of these villages, we don't dare stop. While no longer fully controlled by the government, the regime spies still lurk. And we're snaking our way towards a facility the government most certainly does not want us to see. A site that multiple sources on the ground say is where the Assad regime produces chemical weapons. A place called the Scientific Research Facility.

To the southeast of Aleppo lies the town of al Safita (ph). On its outskirts, a sprawling factory. Manufacturing anything from containers to long-range missiles. This is as close as we can get before we hear an aircraft overhead and quickly leave.

To the southeast of that, according to our sources, is the Scientific Research Facility.

(on camera): From here we can see the outer most perimeter of the general research facility. And the fighters are telling us that it is amongst the most heavily guarded areas where they're operating. The village right below it, that is filled with government loyalists. So this is about as far as we can go.

(voice-over): Abu Obaida commands the Dela Al Shaba (ph) brigade that has fighters surrounding the facility, tasked by his commanders with isolating, but not attacking it.

"The regime might take extreme actions if we try to assault, so we're just militarily choking it off," he tells us.

On all sides, it is surrounded by rolling hills. We're being escorted by a defective soldier who worked on the inside and a rebel fighter from the area. We've agreed not to reveal their identities. At one point, between the two hilltops, a man-made barrier.

(on camera): We have to be very careful filming through here, but visible on the side of the mountains are what rebel fighters with us are telling us were the former positions that government troops used to occupy. Since the Free Syrian Army moved into this area, government forces have pulled further and closer to the facility itself.

(voice-over): This man was recently captured by the rebels. He says he led a unit whose job was to patrol part of the perimeter. Artillery units are positioned on the hilltops. He agreed to be interviewed if we disguised his identity and his voice. He says that soldiers like him were constantly searched. Their calls monitored, forbidden from seeing people who entered the main building. They arrived escorted by armed guards, concealed from sight. "It was even forbidden for us to ask about it. If we did, we were punished," he tells us.

They were under orders to shoot to kill anyone who approached, even a civilian, within 300 meters. He says that around five months ago, regular employees stopped arriving. "And what I overheard is that those who were allowed to leave were Syrians, and those inside were foreigners. We saw large quantities of food still being delivered," he says.

Defectors have previously told CNN that Iranian scientists have often worked here. There's no way to confirm that. Portions of the complex are underground. The hilltops have tunnels as well, guarded, we are told, by up to 5,000 soldiers.

The fear of chemical weapons has further traumatized people. In Aleppo Doctor Hamza says he began requests precautionary supplies six months ago. Some Atropine has arrived, but no chemical suits.

(on camera): You're going to make your own chemical suits?

DR. HAMZA, ALEPPO ACTIVIST: Yes, yes, we just have to do that right now. We have like two pieces, two chemical suits. And this stuff is about them and -- to make them.

DAMON: To make your own?

HAMZA: Yes, exactly. Because we (INAUDIBLE) a lot to get chemical suits, but now we couldn't.

DAMON (voice-over): At secret sites around the city, he says, medical teams will be provided with Atropine and training in case government forces resort to chemical weapons. But in reality, people can do little more than pray that Syria's war doesn't lead to such a catastrophe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Arwa Damon, she is live safely across the Syrian border in Turkey.

Arwa, that's just incredible reporting there. Give us a sense of whether or not you know about chemical weapons, whether or not they've been moved from that site since you were there, and just how dangerous people think that site is.

DAMON: People think that it is incredibly dangerous. And just about everyone we have been speaking to has no doubt in their mind that the Assad regime will, in fact, eventually resort to the use of chemical weapons.

That being said, since we were at the site just a few days ago, we do not know if anything new has been moved from it. However, one of the brigade commanders we were talking to said that in the past weeks and months, they believe that the Assad regime has in fact moved material from there to the coastal region of Latakia. And that is where the Assad government most certainly does still have a pretty strong grip on the situation, on the territory. It is also an area where the Assad government does enjoy a fair amount of support, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And what do people think about the fact that it is so close to where they live, those chemical weapons?

DAMON: They find it to be utterly terrifying. Not just people who live in the vicinity, but every single person who we've come across as the news that there had been perhaps more movement on the chemical weapons front began spreading throughout Aleppo. We heard more and more people speaking about it.

And, remember, this is a population that has been largely helpless in the face of trying to protect itself against bullets and bombs. They most certainly cannot do much should it come to a chemical attack. And you heard the doctor there. They are having to make their own chemical suits because they don't have the necessary equipment, the materials coming into them from the outside.

MALVEAUX: All right, Arwa Damon in Turkey. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Excellent reporting.

North Korea just sent a message to the world when they launched this rocket into space. It happened last night. We're going to look at what it means for U.S. security.

And Richard Branson, he is known for owning an airline. But in my interview with him, he talked about how space travel may be reality sooner than later.

And, are you feeling lucky today, 12-12-12. A repeating triple date like this not going to come around for nearly another century. How are you going to celebrate? Chad Myers here to show us how folks are marking this around the world.

Chad, I'm excited. I really am.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: We should be.

MALVEAUX: Because, look at our clocks, we're getting really, really close, right, to 12:12.

MYERS: Yes, exactly. And 12 seconds, right, so we can go even farther than that.

MALVEAUX: Oh, OK. All right. Because we're going to do this live.

MYERS: Yes, we're doing it live. And Brandon and Jamie are getting married right now live in Las Vegas. Vivalasvegasweddings.com. They're going to have a bunch of wedding all day, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And what else? I understand it's lucky for folks to give birth. People are having -- oh, there's a clock, 12:12, we've got to wait -- wait --

MYERS: Here we go --

MALVEAUX: We're almost -- almost. 12:12:12.

MYERS: Made it. And we're still here.

MALVEAUX: Make a wish. Make a wish. Celebrate.

MYERS: That's exactly right. In Indonesia, they got married. Here, we have pictures here from Singapore. Lots of weddings across -- you know, I will tell you, though, I got married on 2-02-02 and that wasn't very lucky.

But here's the guy in France trying to synchronize his watch, 12:12:12. He missed it by 25 seconds because he had 38 seconds there down at the bottom. But even -- here's -- even here, you know, a mass in Lithuania here just about a couple hours ago.

And it's National Sound Check day. You know why we say that?

MALVEAUX: No.

MYERS: Because it's check one, two, one, two, one, two.

MALVEAUX: Oh, OK. Yes, I get it. So this is considered to be a lucky day for a lot of people.

MYERS: Of course.

MALVEAUX: How long do we have to wait, Chad, before another one of these, right, because you had 10-10-10, 11-11-11, now 12-12-12.

MYERS: Yes, you have to wait for January 1, 3001. So it's --

MALVEAUX: Oh, OK.

MYERS: It's going to be a while. I'm not going to be here for that one.

MALVEAUX: We might have to count on some other folks to bring that in.

MYERS: Yes.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thanks, Chad. We're going to take a quick break.

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MALVEAUX: The world is reacting to an extremely provocative move by North Korea. Today, Pyongyang launched a long-range rocket, defying the U.S. and other nations that called on North Korea to cancel the launch.

Here's animation of how the rocket looks soaring into space. The North American Aerospace Defense Command, known as NORAD, says the rocket apparently put an object into orbit. North Korea says it's a scientific satellite, but the U.S. believes the launch is a cover for testing ballistic missile technology.

A senior administration official says the U.S. will push for a U.N. security council resolution condemning the launch as well as possible sanctions. Members began meeting behind closed doors about an hour ago.

Well, joining us from Santa Fe, New Mexico, former New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson and good to see you. First of all, you're a former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. You've been to North Korea many, many times over the years. Does this concern you?

FMR. GOV. BILL RICHARDSON, NEW MEXICO: Well, it does concern me. My hope had been that the new leader in North Korea, Kim Jong-un, would pick a different path than his father, that he would be more moderate.

But I think still there's possibilities of dialogue. I'm not sure when. I think he did this for domestic reasons. The last missile launch failed. He only has one year in leadership. He wants to show his people that, despite their economic problems, they have military and missile technology, that they're a major power in space, militarily, buttress himself with the North Korean military.

So, I think it was mainly a domestic shot that he took, but also he's saying to the world, hey, you've got to deal with me. I'm a major player.

MALVEAUX: So, it's for domestic audience largely here. Should the United States and should others be worried this launch could mean there's a capability to hit the western coast of the United States? Is that a concern? What actually was accomplished here beyond the politic politics?

RICHARDSON: Well, it was a violation of missile launches, number one, so there will be action by the Security Council. I don't think they have the capability to reach the United States right now, but obviously, their missile technology, their intercontinental ballistic missile technology is developing. I mean, it's developed a lot since a year ago and, so, it should be of concern.

The issue, I think, Suzanne, is what do we do about it? We've tried engagement with them before. We've tried additional sanctions and sanctions are probably going to happen from the European Union, possibly more from the U.N., but almost every sanction is on North Korea.

I think the six-party countries, the United States, South Korea, Japan, Russia, China -- I mean, China is a big player here, because they have the most influence -- have to figure out how to deal with this new leader. I mean, they've got nuclear weapons. They've got missile technology, but they're also very poor. They're also -- possibly they're sending a trial balloon saying, we want to bargain. I don't know because very few people have met this new leader and which direction he wants to go is still uncertain.

MALVEAUX: So, in light of all that, I mean, what do you recommend if you were actually advising President Obama at this time to do? I mean, people don't know who he is. He, obviously, is trying to do this muscle-flex here. The six-party talks have been a failure. They basically ended back in 2009. What would you recommend?

RICHARDSON: Well, I'm not privy to their deliberations so, but what I would recommend is, first, you do have to fulfill obligations under the security council. There was a violation of missile launching. But I think a more creative way to deal with them needs to happen and it has to solve South Korea, Japan, China and us, principally and, you know, maybe engagement, finding somebody to talk to them, sending an envoy there or meeting an envoy halfway or, within the six-party talks, get them going again and talk to them.

I'm not saying give them anything, but, again, I think he's doing this for domestic reasons, the new leader. But maybe after he's already shown that he is firmly in charge he'll be ready to deal. You can't just sanction and isolate and punish them. That hasn't worked. You've got to deal with them, but realistically. You don't have to reward them, but it means a new kind of diplomacy, a new kind of engagement.

MALVEAUX: And, Bill, finally, a final question here, who do you think would be the most effective in actually dealing with the new leader diplomatically? Do you think it's the Russians?

RICHARDSON: No. It's the Chinese. The Chinese have a lot of leverage on North Korea, but North Korea's very independent. The Chinese don't call the shots on North Korea even though they give them food and fuel and a lot of other assistance.

This is an independent, unpredictable country and, so, China is still the best lever, but it needs a creative approach by the six-party countries. I know the six-party talks have fizzled, but somebody has to find a new way to deal with this threat. And it is there.

MALVEAUX: All right. Bill Richardson, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

It's become highly profitable, this crime. Authorities in Asia and South Africa are busting traffickers who are smuggling rhino horns. Well, while it makes big news in other countries, it's not necessarily something Americans hear about every day. Up next, we're going to take look at this growing problem and what is being done to stop it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: South Africa and Vietnam have signed a deal to stop the illegal slaughter of rhinos. Now, poachers are killing them for their horns, selling them to be used in traditional medicine in Asian countries. Despite an international ban on poaching, at least 618 rhinos have been killed this year in South Africa alone. That is double the number of slaughter than a year ago.

CNN special correspondent Philippe Cousteau is joining us live from Los Angeles and, Philippe, tell us about this deal. What is this going to do to change things here? PHILIPPE COUSTEAU, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Suzanne, this is a challenge. The illegal trade in wildlife products is a challenge growing exponentially, as you pointed out. It's worth $7-to-$10 billion every year. And this memorandum of understanding is, I think, a sign that nations are starting to wake up to the very serious gravity of the situation.

MALVEAUX: You've got Vietnamese hunters since 2003 being paid, what, an estimated $22 million to kill rhinos in South Africa. That is an awful lot of money here. How do you make a pact between these two countries have sort of impact on something that is that lucrative in trade?

COUSTEAU: Well, there's lots of different ways. I mean, you know, of course, rhino horn is ending up oftentimes as a form of traditional medicine, so part of it is about educating buyers, educating individuals to be more sophisticated in understanding that there's no scientific basis for rhino horns being a medicinal cure for anything at all.

And, also, understanding that the trade is international. Here in Los Angeles, it's a major hub for the trade in rhino horn. Illegal crime syndicates, it supports militias and destabilizes nations and, so, it's both an issue at the source. It's a consumer education awareness. If there's no demand, there's no supply. And we all need to come together.

MALVEAUX: So, Philippe, what can we do, just as normal folks, everyday people, if we want to stop something like this?

COUSTEAU: Well, as I said, it's a big consumer issue. What will surprise many people to know is that the United States is probably the second largest destination for illegal wildlife products, tigers, ivory, rhino horn. And, in many cases, there are even Web sites here in the United States that cater, fashion Web sites, antique Web sites that cater to the illegal ivory trade, for example.

As I said, lots of rhino horn here in Los Angeles. It's really an issue both of law enforcement, increased efforts in law enforcement and Secretary Clinton has said this is a major national security issue and also individuals understanding that they should not be purchasing these items.

MALVEAUX: Yeah, these pictures are really kind of disturbing there. I understand it's quite brutal how they do that. Give us a sense ...

COUSTEAU: It's horrific. Oftentimes, they don't even kill the animals. They just sedate them. They have high-powered rifles, night vision, attack helicopters. This industry funds terrorist groups, militias, destabilizing nations and affect international security. So, it really is a global challenge, fourth in international illegal trade behind narcotics, counterfeiting and human slavery.

MALVEAUX: Thank you, Philippe. I understand you also have something else you're working on, a children's book on saving the world's oceans. What is that about? COUSTEAU: Yes, well, this -- that's right. Well, this is a book called "Make a Splash" that we just launched. It's a follow-up to an award-winning guide for teens and it's about helping young people, elementary school kids, understand how they can help protect the oceans and waterways.

For example, 2.5 million pounds of plastics enter the oceans every hour, so this book helps kids understand things like plastics, what they can do to cut out plastic use in bottles and bags in their homes, so how they can make a positive difference.

MALVEAUX: All right, thank you, Philippe. Appreciate it as always.

COUSTEAU: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Richard Branson, looking to go to the moon and beyond, the airline tycoon trying to make space travel a reality for everybody.

So I asked him, how much is this all going to cost? The answer, next.

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