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NANCY GRACE

California Man Murders Wife, 6-Year-Old Daughter Over Paternity

Aired June 25, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, California. They had it all, a beautiful two-story home, a 10-year-plus marriage, three beautiful girls as young as 6 years old. Then a storm of tragedy hits.

Bombshell tonight. Mommy found handcuffed and strangled, the beautiful 6-year-old girl bludgeoned to death there in the family home. Cops hit a wall until they find Daddy speeding in a rental car headed for Texas. Cops say Daddy blames the brutal family murder spree on a DNA test, a test that revealed he`s not the father of 6-year-old Tamara. And why is Daddy headed to Texas? To murder Mommy`s alleged boyfriend of nearly seven years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who could kill their wife and an innocent 6-year- old girl?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The couple`s 13-year-old daughter says she heard her younger sister`s cries and woke up to find her bed covered in blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And smashes the 6-year-old girl`s head more than 20 times into a bedpost, her skull eventually crushed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cops say Daddy murdered his 6-year-old daughter and her mother upon learning the little girl was not biologically his.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a paternity test that set Michael Barbar off, a sickening charge, he allegedly kills the mother and the daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daddy`s attorney says the killings were not planned but were carried out in an uncontrollable rage a whole eight days after the results of paternity tests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Ohio. A landlord gets the shock of a lifetime cleaning out a rental property after the renters move out. She finds wrapped in clear Saran Wrap, then kitchen towel, a tiny infant frozen in the kitchen freezer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-year-old Kenisha Pruitt (ph) and 18-year- old Antonio Cervantes (ph)...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) baby boy who was allegedly alive no more than two days, was found dead in their freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The landlord was cleaning the property when she discovered...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A package in the freezer, started to unwrap it and discovered what appeared to be a hand or an arm.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby boy died from ligature strangulation and submersion in water, then wrapped up and shoved into the family freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Detectives say there are a lot of unanswered questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, this is relatively unusual.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Infant`s body in the freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was murdered allegedly by his parents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Abuse of a corpse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The parents, who now faces charges including murder...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.

Bombshell tonight, live, California suburbs. Mommy found handcuffed and strangled, her beautiful 6-year-old girl bludgeoned to death in the family home. Well, cops hit a wall until they find Daddy speeding away in a rental car headed for Texas.

But cops say Daddy blames it all, the entire brutal family murder spree, on a DNA test, a paternity test that reveals he`s not the bio dad of 6-year-old Tamara. Why headed to Texas? To murder Mommy`s alleged ex- boyfriend of nearly seven years ago.

Straight out to Dave Mack, joining us from Clear Channel WAAX. Dave, didn`t he find the paternity test results eight days before the murders?

DAVE MACK, CLEAR CHANNEL WAAX: Absolutely. He had eight days of that information to sit there and stew and plot and plan his revenge for her infidelity -- eight days. Tamara didn`t even live eight years.

GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our reporter on the story. Ellie, go back. Start at the beginning. What happened?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, apparently, Michael Barbar discovered that his wife had had a series of on-line flirtations or even affairs with men outside of that immediate area, found out that she had even gone to Texas to visit one of these men.

He then started to suspect that their 6-year-old daughter, Tamara, was not his biological child. So police said he went and got a DNA test, pulled the girl out of school, actually had it verified that he was not the father of the little girl, and then waited eight days before he carried out this alleged plot where he planned to kill her, planned to kill the little girl and planned to kill the lover in Texas.

GRACE: To Michael Board, WOAI. Michael, what do we know about this guy?

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI (via telephone): We know that he`s a -- if this is true, we know he`s a brutal murderer. You know, the details of what police have released with this -- the crime scene on this just absolutely turns your stomach.

According to the police reporter, what we`ve read about the crime scene itself, he used a computer cable to strangle his wife to death and then tie her up to the bed, which is unbelievable. Then he took the 6- year-old girl -- and if this is true, if the police report is true, slammed her head repeatedly, crushing her skull against the bedpost.

And the bodies were found together in this home, together. It almost blows your mind that someone can fly into this sort of a rage and be this brutal with human beings.

GRACE: But Ellie, what we are slowly uncovering is a trail of evidence that shows how much he plotted and planned this.

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: Now, I guarantee you, he is going to want somebody to believe he simply became enraged when he discovered his 6-year-old little girl was not his biological child, the child he`s been raising for six years. But the planning that went into this evening is much, much more in depth.

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. Well, what prosecutors allege he did was, the day leading up to the night where the murders occurred, he actually told the oldest daughter -- this is his stepdaughter -- she`s about 18 years old. He gave her $20 and said, You know, don`t come home tonight. I want to have a special evening with your mother.

And he told the other two girls -- there was a 13-year-old in the home, as well as the little 6-year-old victim -- he told those two girls to go to bed early because he wanted to have, you know, this special night. But instead, he carried out these murders, according to prosecutors.

GRACE: A special night, Ellie. Did you just say he told the teen not to come home, gave her money to stay away...

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: ... and told her he wants to have a special night...

JOSTAD: Right.

GRACE: ... with his wife?

JOSTAD: Right. Exactly. That is what she told police, that he actually told her, you know, Don`t come home, make yourself scarce, I`m going to have this special romantic evening with your mother.

GRACE: OK, what do we know about the scene, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, police said that this was an incredibly violent scene. They found the mother actually still handcuffed, her hands behind her back. She was nude on the floor in the bedroom, covered partially with a blanket. They say she still had an electrical cord, like a cable cord, around her neck.

The little girl allegedly was -- first -- he first tried to strangle the little girl. When that didn`t work and she was fighting him, investigators say that he actually beat her to death by repeatedly slamming her head against a bedpost. They said that this scene was saturated, is the term they used -- saturated in blood. There was blood spatter everywhere, indicating a very violent struggle with this 6-year-old.

GRACE: Ellie, what, if anything, do we know about what made the father suspect this was not his child?

JOSTAD: It`s not really clear right now, although we do know that there was allegedly these on-line affairs. So it would appear that he was able to find some evidence that the victim was communicating with men on her commuter. And that`s what sort of sparked this whole thing, fuelled the motive, you know, that he did not believe this child was his, believed that his wife had been repeatedly cheating on him during their 10-year marriage.

GRACE: Well, you know, Ellie, you just said on-line affair.

JOSTAD: Yes.

GRACE: And there`s a big controversy whether flirting on line equals an affair.

And also, I want to talk about the reliability of those paternity tests that he is using as motive for murder to somehow get himself out of hot water.

But first to the lines. Joelle in Texas. Hi, Joelle. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. I love you, and I`ve been watching you for a long time.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And you did awesome with "Dancing With the Stars." Really quickly, I want to know what -- this has to be premeditation. He told the teenaged daughter -- you know, he (INAUDIBLE) and gave her $20 up front and then to take it out. I want to know why this man is not up for a death penalty. I know California is death penalty case. And we are in Texas. That guy needs to go the hell back and let us beat him against a bedpost.

GRACE: You know what? Tell it! And the reality is, Joelle, he tried to strangle the little girl, the 6-year-old girl. When she fought back, he bludgeoned her to death and left this scene for his 13-year-old daughter to find when she gets up the next morning. Thanks, Dad!

Take a look at this scene. There`s the home. It looks like any beautiful suburban home. It turned into a crime scene when police find Mommy dead and her 6-year-old daughter dead, as well.

And after seven years of an alleged affair Mom may have had seven years ago, he`s on hot pursuit all the way to Texas, driving through the night to get Mommy`s alleged lover she may have had six to seven years ago.

Unleash the lawyers, Becca Crumrine joining us, Atlanta, Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney and author, John Manuelian joining us out of LA.

All right, Mickey, hit me. Don`t even start with involuntary manslaughter because I know that`s where you`re going to go...

(CROSSTALK)

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: ... frankly, Nancy. The fact that this was planned and it was premeditated and it was planned -- that does not necessarily exclude the defense of insanity. Obviously, this was building up in this guy`s psyche for so long.

One of the guests that you -- you asked a question a few moments ago, was what do we know about this guy. And I think you were trying to find out whether or not there was a history. We didn`t hear if there was or was not a history. That I`d be interested to know, is did this guy do this before -- not this same heinous act, did he have a pattern of violence?

I`ll bet you that`s not the case. He just went crazy when he believed or found out, whether it was true or not, that his wife had had several affairs and that his child was not his. It`s insane. Who else would do this to their child? It would have to be someone who`s crazy.

GRACE: Put him up, please! Mickey...

SHERMAN: Yes?

GRACE: ... every day we have a child homicide, defense attorneys try to say, There`s no motive, they must be insane. Well, FYI, here`s a news alert. Check the Supreme Court rulings. Just because you can`t think of a decent motive to give a jury, the insanity defense is not a catch-all. In other words, that`s what I scream when I can`t think of anything else to tell a jury.

Mickey Sherman, he knew -- he ordered the -- he ordered the DNA test. He`s the one that did it, number one. So he`s been plotting this and suspecting this for a long time. He mulled for eight days about what he was going to do. He never let on to his wife or family what he was doing.

SHERMAN: That`s because the demons in his mind...

GRACE: He sends the teen...

SHERMAN: ... took over. Absolutely. This man was totally crazy.

GRACE: Demons in his mind -- you mean jealousy and anger? They may be two of the seven deadly sins, but that`s not insanity.

OK, Manuelian, help Sherman out.

JOHN MANUELIAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, look, Nancy, I do see your point, but I mean, there`s not a lot of defenses in this case. It`s either insanity, or you`re going to argue voluntary manslaughter. But you know, you got eight days. What are you going to argue to the jury, that he was upset for eight days...

GRACE: I don`t know! That`s what...

MANUELIAN: ... and the rage carried on?

GRACE: ... I`m asking you. I luckily don`t have to defend criminals for a living. You do. It`s your expertise. I`m going to give you a few moments to try to dig something up.

OK, Becca...

MANUELIAN: Simple...

GRACE: You`re not Becca.

BECCA CRUMRINE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: This is an absolutely horrible, heinous crime. This child -- eight days -- he raised this child for six years as his own. Regardless of who the biological father was, he was her child. (SIC) He killed his own child.

GRACE: You know, I want to go quickly back to you, Dave Mack. The allegation by the defense of some type of involuntary manslaughter, we`re hearing tonight, or some type of insanity -- you can`t plan something for at least eight days, that we know of -- plus there`s the purchase of the DNA test, the reading of the e-mails, him stewing on it, sending the teenage daughter out of the home, leaving one child there to wake up to a dead mommy -- that is not insanity. That is not involuntary manslaughter.

MACK: Not at all. That`s why the prosecution actually charged him with a capital offense, where it is a murder -- there`s a possible death penalty. They got him for lying in wait. Eight days he planned.

He found the address of the alleged -- the biological father of the child. He had directions so that he could go -- after he killed his wife, after he killed his daughter -- and here`s the other part, Nancy. His plan was to strangle the 6-year-old. When that didn`t work and she fought back for everything she had, this little 6-year-old, he banged her head violently against a bedpost to finish the job!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are back and taking your calls. For eight days, Daddy stews after discovering a 6-year-old child is not his biological child. It erupts into double murder in a beautiful California suburban home.

We are taking your calls. Out to Sue in Georgia. Hi, Sue. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Was he seeing a psychiatrist or under any kind of psychiatric care, taking any meds or anything like that? And is there going to be an insanity defense?

GRACE: You know what? Good question. I don`t know of him being on any meds. What I would like to know, Dave Mack, joining me from Clear Channel WAAX, is -- I know part of his escape route was to go through Texas -- to Texas to murder the mom`s alleged lover of about seven years ago, but to continue on to Lebanon. I know he`s of Lebanese descent. Is he an American?

MACK: I don`t know that yet, Nancy. I was looking for that during the break. But you know, when you -- he was headed -- actually, he was arrested in New Mexico. He was headed through New Mexico to Texas. He was going to murder the old boyfriend, and then cross the border into Mexico, where he then could head back to Lebanon. That was the original plan. And they found him with a map to the man`s house and a gun.

GRACE: I know that he is Lebanese-born. That`s what I know. And it brings up a whole issue of different cultural mores and how they play out here in America. When we let people come to our country, they bring with them their own sense of justice.

To Wendy Walsh, Dr. Wendy Walsh, psychologist and expert. Wendy, weigh in on that. I mean, this guy was headed back home to Lebanon, where his family would probably have welcomed him home after a double murder.

WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there are all kinds of cultural differences around the world. And remember, there are some cultures that if a wife disgraces you in some way, the shame is so great. I don`t know necessarily -- I mean, his stepdaughter was 18, his biological daughter was 13. He`d been in this country long enough. He seemed to have married an American woman and would have probably gotten his citizenship through that marriage.

So culturally, really, who was he? He knows the American rules and laws. He knows what we consider OK. I think that this man was an evil person who probably was so narcissistic that this child was -- you know, his children were a part of him, except the one that wasn`t his. And he was just so angry that she had betrayed him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: He is caught en route to Texas, where he plans to murder who he believes was his wife`s lover almost seven years ago. Then he plans to jet home to his family. They`re waiting with open arms in Lebanon, leaving behind him a dead wife and a dead daughter. He intentionally sends another teenaged girl out of the home the night before, claiming he wants time alone with Mommy. Time alone all right, time to strangle her to death!

We are taking your calls. Out to special guest joining us from Santa Ana, John Taddie. He is a DNA and paternity expert and director of LB Genetics. You know -- he performs a lot of high-profile paternity tests.

To you, John Taddie. How reliable are over the counter paternity tests?

JOHN TADDIE, DNA/PATERNITY EXPERT (via telephone): The over the counter ones are generally reliable. The issue that I have with those types of test is that you have to be sure the lab that`s being -- that`s doing the testing is reputable and that the quality control measures that they`re using are in place.

The issue with this, from what I could tell, is that -- I read one news article that he had taken her to a McDonald`s to get a notary (ph) to do the test. And the question that popped into my mind was, was this a test we would call legally admissible or court-admissible, or was this what we could call a -- simply a personal knowledge test equivalent to a home test kit.

Now, the problem with this is that the personal knowledge or non- court-admissible tests, there`s no regulatory agencies that oversee the performance of these tests in laboratories. So depending on the laboratory you use for the test, you know, you can`t necessarily be sure of the reliability unless you know who actually did the test and how the test was performed.

GRACE: Well, my question to you, John Taddie, is not as intricate as that answer, which, of course, all of it, John Taddie, is correct. My question is -- I`m not worried about this DNA test coming in or not coming into evidence because it didn`t matter anymore. The 6-year-old girl is dead. So I`m not worried about her biological father right now.

What I`m worried about is, are these over the counter DNA tests accurate? How accurate are they if they are performed correctly?

TADDIE: If they`re performed correctly and if they`re performed by a laboratory that has internally the procedures that they follow the proper quality control procedures, they`re 100 percent accurate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who could kill their wife and an innocent 6-year- old girl?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The couple`s 13-year-old daughter says she heard her younger sister`s cries and woke up to find her bed covered in blood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And smashes the 6-year-old girl`s head more than 20 times into a bedpost, her skull eventually crushed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cops say Daddy murdered his 6-year-old daughter and her mother upon learning the little girl was not biologically his.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a paternity test that set Michael Barbar off, a sickening charge. He allegedly kills the mother and the daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Daddy`s attorney says the killings were not planned but were carried out in an uncontrollable rage a whole eight days after the results of paternity tests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I don`t know how uncontrollable the rage was, because daddy apparently had eight days to fester, to stew. After he discovers a DNA test reveals his 6-year-old child is not his. It`s somebody else`s. So he plots and plans and stews and simmers for eight days. Then he sends his teen girl out giving her money to go have fun while he have alone time with mommy.

When that alone time comes, he murders her, then after trying to strangle a 6-year-old daughter, the product of a lover with mom, he bludgeons the 6-year-old child, a little girl named Tamara, to death.

Tonight the attorneys are screaming insanity, involuntary manslaughter, passionate killing. Well, Daddy had the wherewithal to plot and plan for eight days and to even get a rental car for himself, a Nissan Maxima, to drive undetected, as he sped south on I-10 on his way to Texas to kill mommy`s lover of over seven years before. Then he planned to head home to Lebanon where no doubt his mommy and daddy plan to meet him with open arms.

We are taking your calls, out to Katrina in North Carolina, hi, dear, what`s your question?

KATRINA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy, love your show and love your twins.

GRACE: Thank you.

KATRINA: What I`d like to know is if this guy had eight days, it was premeditated, there`s no way around that. And on top of that, he had another child, what made him suspect that this 6-year-old was not his and want a paternity test? And also after six years of raising a child, you should love that child no matter what.

GRACE: I agree, Katrina. Katrina, don`t hang up because you know what, maybe you could be a good law instructor to some of the lawyers tonight. And I`m referring specifically to Mickey Sherman and John Manuelian. Back at -- you pretty been on point.

To -- back to you, Mickey Sherman. Here`s Katrina -- Katrina, I assume you`re not a law processor, is that correct?

KATRINA: No.

GRACE: All right. Here`s Katrina, as you would refer to her, a lay person, who`s telling you he had eight days to plan. And Mickey Sherman, you kind of left out the ingredient that he thought so much as to go get a rental car. A rental car, Mickey.

MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": I don`t --

GRACE: Now that`s not a crazy person.

SHERMAN: I don`t disagree with what -- what Katrina said. In fact I think it proves the point. He should have -- absolutely should have love for his daughter who was 6 years old whether she was his daughter or not. It makes it all the more insane that he would kill her in such a gruesome manner. Why should she kill her at all?

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Can you try to not co-mingle or bastardize the legal terms of insanity, Mickey Sherman? Because what you`re doing right now is you`re playing on everyone`s knowledge of oh, they`re crazy. Street talk. I`m talking about the legal definition.

Let me jog your memory, Mickey. I`m talking about the old M`Naghten test that came over from Great Britain and our American common law. Whether you know right or wrong at the time of the incident.

So, Manuelian, you want to tell me after he sends his teenaged daughter out for the night so he could have alone time with mommy, he didn`t know what he did was wrong?

JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, I -- there`s not a lot the defense could do, Nancy.

GRACE: What?

MANUELIAN: This is a very difficult case. So, you know, I would be arguing rage, I`d say the rage was continuing. Get a psychiatrist to go in, an expert to say that it`s possible this guy --

GRACE: OK.

MANUELIAN: -- raged for eight days and still did all of that, and still killed the daughter, and then you could have possibly the defense of manslaughter.

GRACE: OK. John Manuelian, you`re a good lawyer. You`ve tried a lot of cases out there in L.A. So let`s just follow through with your theory that the defense could be raised, since insanity obviously is not going to work for you and Mickey.

Let`s talk about rage for a minute. How long -- so he`s got eight days that we know of, of rage, so when does rage, uncontrollable rage, turn into a fit? And when does a fit subside? If it doesn`t subside after eight days, how long can you claim rage, as a defense? Of course all of us know that rage is not a defense. Anger is not a defense under the law, but go ahead.

MANUELIAN: Well, Nancy, the rage will mitigate the premeditation into a voluntary manslaughter. But this is how you do it. You show that there`s a cooling off, on again and off again process. Experts could testify --

GRACE: Wait. Wait. No, no, no.

MANUELIAN: -- that he made --

GRACE: No. There`s not a cooling off. There`s no heating back up under the law. Under the law, Manuelian.

MANUELIAN: Sure there is.

GRACE: There is anger, there is cooling off then it turns into revenge. Revenge is not a defense.

MANUELIAN: Well, you go to the movie the frame where the crime happened, so as long as he had range at the time of the crime, you can explain that it went up, and it went down, he went off and on again. That`s the only defense he has in this case.

GRACE: All right. Becca?

BECCA CRUMRINE, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Completely planned. I mean we`ve already point out, he sent his 18-year-old stepdaughter out for $20. He told -- with $20, said don`t come home, to an 18-year-old. And then left the 13-year-old at home to watch the killing.

GRACE: Exactly. And that child was found hiding when the police got to the home. You`re right, Becca.

To Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon and pathologist joining us out of Sacramento.

Dr. Lloyd, thank you for being with us. I`m especially concerned about what the 6-year-old child went through, the mother and child, I think, most likely the child was killed in front of the mother before the mother was killed. The mother was handcuffed, and ligature strangled, the child was strangled and then beaten to death about the head.

DR. BILL LLOYD, BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: Both of these were particularly hideous, Nancy. The older sister recalls she heard the younger sister screaming for help and begging her daddy, please stop, please stop, and then her voice went away. For minutes this girl was living in terror, aside from the pain, totally confused in the middle of the night being strangled, and then when she fought back, her father took her head and started to pound it against the post, not killing her immediately but pounding her again and again until he crushed her skull.

GRACE: To Lisa Lockwood, former police detective and now author. Lisa, thanks for being with us. You know, what they`re going to argue, I would assume, is a mixture of rage, revenge, pure out anger, and that he brought with him from Lebanon a different set of standards, a different set of what is right and wrong, as opposed to what we think as right or wrong, Lisa.

LISA LOCKWOOD, FORMER POLICE DETECTIVE, AUTHOR OF "UNDERCOVER ANGEL": Exactly, and you have the cultural person give you a perspective of how people operate in their various countries. So we already know that. What we`re looking at again, not to beat at that bush, is eight days, eight days this man had to conduct himself in a daily manner.

Who was there watching him, what kind of behavior did he exhibit? Was he stewing? Was he angry? Did people witness this? Because certainly this is premeditation. This man completely prepared what he was going to do that evening. He was prepared in knowing exactly where he was going en route to go murder the alleged lover and have his flight information and everything prepared to leave the country and get back to Lebanon.

This man knew exactly what he was doing, there`s no question about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Discovered an infant`s body in the freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Package in the freezer, started to unwrap it, appeared to be a hand or an arm.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baby boy who was allegedly alive, no more than two days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How can you not want a baby?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Was found dead in their freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The couple also has a 14-month-old child together. Members of both suspects` families packed the courtroom, visibly upset about the case but declined to go on camera. Despite the emotion attached to this case, detectives say there are a lot of unanswered questions. The key is the autopsy. The cause of death will determine if the couple could face charges of murder or abuse of a corpse.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls.

The landlord gets the shock of a lifetime. When she`s cleaning up after the renters had just moved out. There in the kitchen freezer, she finds a body of a tiny infant, frozen, wrapped in clear Saran Wrap and then a towel.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to Phil Trexler, joining us from the "Akron Beacon Journal." Phil, what happened?

PHIL TREXLER, REPORTER, AKRON BEACON JOURNAL: Yes. You know, Nancy, this is one of those stories that`s just purely heartbreaking and also just very disturbing. Two young parents here, the woman gives birth to a child, their second, a little baby boy, healthy, for some reason, we don`t know, she takes the baby -- accused of taking the baby, wrapping a ligature around his neck, strangling him and then places him into a tub of water, probably to ensure his death, and then they`re accused of taking this baby, wrapping him up and putting him in a freezer like he`s a piece of meat.

It`s just -- it`s just one of those crimes that are just -- it`s just unthinkable.

GRACE: And --

TREXLER: So now the parents are charged with murder and the case is progressing through the courts.

GRACE: Another thing that`s disturbing, Kevin -- with me, Kevin Milliken, anchor, WSPD.

Kevin, the child died of ligature strangulation is my understanding.

KEVIN MILLIKEN, ANCHOR, WSPD: It took the coroner`s office several weeks to determine the baby`s actual cause of death. But this is one of those cases where forensic science proved that the baby was strangled and dumped into water. They`re not sure whether one or the other was the cause of death. They`ve listed both of them right now. So this is something that determined it`s definitely premeditated here.

GRACE: To Bonnie Druker, also on the story. Bonnie, what more do we know?

BONNIE DRUKER, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, it took the baby to thaw out before the coroner`s office could even do an autopsy. And what I`m thinking is it takes some time to go pick up a cord and strangle a baby. There`s no way that these people can plead insanity, they`re charged with murder, both the mother and the father, Nancy.

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Lloyd, surgeon and pathologist, joining us. OK, I never thought I`d put these words together in one sentence. The corner had to wait for the baby to thaw out to determine cause of death?

LLOYD: Yes, that`s important, Nancy, because if they were to proceed with an autopsy with frozen remains, they could induce artifact or untrue injuries, fractures or lacerations to the skin, and then they wouldn`t know, did this happen from us or did this happen before the baby died? So they always wait until the remains are brought back to room temperature.

GRACE: We are taking your calls, out to Diane in Florida. Hi, Diane. What`s your question, dear?

DIANE, CALLER FROM FLORIDA: Hi, Nancy. Just want to say, first, that this story is so horrible. But who found the baby?

GRACE: The landlord found the baby, Diane, when she was cleaning out the rental unit for the next renters. This family had moved out and she was cleaning up after them when she discovers the child, the infant, dead in the freezer. They are estimating the child was only two days old. Apparently their families didn`t even know about the baby.

Out to Bonnie in Kentucky. Hi, Bonnie, what is your question?

BONNIE, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Does Ohio have the death penalty?

GRACE: I believe they do.

Unleash the lawyers, Becca, Mickey and John.

OK, Mickey Sherman, death penalty?

SHERMAN: This is not a death penalty case. This is a situation --

GRACE: Why?

SHERMAN: It`s just not. These are -- they don`t a demonstrated history of violence. What they did is not the same.

GRACE: So? Neither did Scott Peterson.

SHERMAN: Yes, but this is such an image -- act of immaturity and of ignorance. You know, you need to have a license to drive a car but not to have a child.

GRACE: No. They`re actually -- Kenisha Pruitt is 20 years old. I don`t know what you`re talking about a driver`s license, just, you know, mull some more, Mickey. I`m going to come back to you.

Manuelian? It`s lethal injection here.

SHERMAN: I don`t think --

MANUELIAN: Yes. It all depends on their background, if they have criminal history, if they`ve had any kind of pattern of behavior breaking the laws before --

GRACE: Who cares? Put him up.

MANUELIAN: Well, that`s what they consider. The --

GRACE: Manuelian, Scott Peterson had no criminal history. I mean, for that matter neither did Gaysy (ph), neither did Ted Bundy, until you find out they`re murderers.

MANUELIAN: Yes, but that`s very rare when -- when states give the death penalty, it`s got to be something very, very egregious. It -- you may be right.

GRACE: Really?

MANUELIAN: I would say that because they don`t have criminal backgrounds --

GRACE: Attempting to strangle a child and putting it alive in a freezer to freeze to death? That`s not heinous to you?

MANUELIAN: Well, I`m not a proponent of the death penalty, but that`s a different issue.

GRACE: Didn`t ask you that.

You know what? I`m going to go to you, Becca. Let`s talk about what`s heinous. They don`t even know if this child was actually dead when they put it in the freezer.

CRUMRINE: There could not be anymore heinous a crime? So what are they`re trying to say, that you can`t seek the death penalty because they`ve never -- they`ve never frozen a child before? And that`s -- that`s incredible.

SHERMAN: Yes, I kept saying that.

GRACE: You know -- yes, I think you are, too.

SHERMAN: I kept saying that.

GRACE: I think you`re about to get your mike cut, too.

SHERMAN: They need demonstrated criminal history to show how they got to where they are.

GRACE: OK. Mickey.

SHERMAN: Yes.

GRACE: Stop saying that. That`s not the law. You don`t have to have a rap sheet to face the death penalty. That`s simply not true.

SHERMAN: It`s not the law we`re talking about, it`s the discretion exercise by any prosecutor in this case. And I don`t think any prosecutor --

GRACE: Yes, well, you know what?

SHERMAN: -- is going to ask for the death penalty.

GRACE: Having a rap sheet is not -- it`s not even an ingredient on whether the prosecution seeks a death penalty on any case. One of the things they look at is the heinous nature of the crime.

SHERMAN: One.

GRACE: This is different.

SHERMAN: One of things.

GRACE: For instance from a vehicular homicide because of the intent that was in this case.

I mean, you know, Wendy Walsh, psychologist, to try to strangle a child, this couple doesn`t even know the child`s dead when they put it in the freezer. It could have been frozen alive, Wendy.

WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST AND CO-HOST OF "THE DOCTORS": It absolutely could have. I mean this is like a -- you know, they were clearly wanted this child dead. First with strangulation, then submerging in water, and then we`re still not sure, maybe it`s wiggling, let`s put it in the freezer.

Nancy, I`m amazed that they forgot it when they moved out, did they want to get caught?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Twenty-year-old Kenisha Pruitt and 18-year-old Antonio Cervantes.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Their baby boy who was allegedly alive no more than two days was found dead in their freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The landlord was cleaning the property when she discovered --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A package in the freezer, started to unwrap it, and discovered what appeared to be a hand or an arm.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The baby boy died from ligature strangulation and submerged in water then wrapped up and shoved into the family freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives say there were a lot of unanswered questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, relatively unusual.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Infant`s body in the freezer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He was murdered allegedly by his parents.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Abuse of a corpse.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The parents, who now face charges including murder.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A landlord gets the shock of a lifetime when she`s cleaning out a rental unit to discover the body of a tiny infant frozen in the kitchen freezer.

Now with me, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, Marc Klaas.

Marc, weigh n.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Nancy, this was a completely preventable crime. Like so many other states Ohio has a Safe Haven law, which allows parents to turn their children over to the authorities if they are under 30 days of age and they`ll then be put up for adoption or put into the foster care system. And I also think that this is just another demonstration of the callousness that so many people have for childhood in the post-Casey Anthony world, where you think if you don`t want a child, you can just get rid of them.

It`s a total and complete disregard for human life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: How to live better now. Tonight, the first of our "Keeping Kids Safe" segments, digital fingerprinting. Gone are the days of ink pad fingerprinting. Brand new technology gives us a better lead on tracking down missing children.

Marc Klaas with us.

Marc, let`s talk about digital fingerprinting and the KlaasKids Printathon.

KLAAS: Sure. Sure, well, Nancy, the KlaasKids has been conducting Printathon since 1994. Since 1996, we have been using electronic equipment, digital cameras, scanners for the finger prints and we`re actually able to get a forensic quality print on -- on a child as young as only 2 months old.

GRACE: Explain how it works.

KLAAS: Well, it`s very simple. What we do is we find a community- minded sponsor around the country that will underwrite the program so that we can offer it for free. We then hold a clinic with a lot of other organizations, if it`s possible, so that an entire suite of child safety information can be turned over to the families by the time they leave.

It`s done in a very positive environment. It`s something that people want to come to. It`s something that many large numbers of people come to and we have been conducting certain Printathons over the years in the same location. For instance, in St. Louis, we`ve been doing the same event for more than 16 years now. We have the children of the children we were originally fingerprinting coming in.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Staff Sergeant Jeffrey Hall, 28, Huntsville, Alabama, killed Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, two Army Commendation Medals, dreamed of enlisting since age 3. Motto, set the standard and live life top shelf. Leaves behind parents, Annette and Charles, sister Emily, widow, Allison, daughter, Audrey.

Jeffrey Hall, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And tonight, congratulations to my long-time director, Brett, and new husband, Chad. They make it legal after 14 years.

Happy birthday to Florida twins, Elizabeth and Lucille. Longtime viewers who stuck by me after the birth of the twins.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END