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NANCY GRACE

Body Found in Plastic Barrel in Arkansas Could Be Missing Teen

Aired February 20, 2012 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Arkansas. A junior high schooler at Butterfield high goes for a walk around her small town neighborhood Saturday night, never seen again.

Bombshell tonight. At this hour, police cadaver dogs hit on a blue 50-gallon plastic barrel buried three feet under muddy earth just 17 miles from her own home. As we stand by waiting for results, tonight, where is Van Buren high schooler Angela Allen?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators, dogs and dive teams search the Arkansas river bottom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gruesome discovery was made.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of a woman found buried in a barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cadaver dog did indicate on that specific suspicious site that we were focusing on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As evidence led them to the area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To a plastic blue barrel, human remains stuffed inside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixteen-year-old Angela Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The missing teenager.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love her. We miss her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arkansas police spent hours digging in a muddy grave.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police cannot yet identify the victim.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buried in the ground three feet deep.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Found buried in a barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could these remains belong to 16-year-old Angela Allen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her family, it`s a waiting game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live to Arkansas. A junior high schooler at Butterfield high goes for a walk around her small town neighborhood Saturday night, never seen again. At this hour, police cadaver dogs hit on a blue 50-gallon plastic barrel buried three feet under muddy earth just 17 miles from her own home.

Out to you, Stacey Newman. You`ve been on the story since it broke. What do you know?

STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via telephone): Nancy, what we know right now is 16-year-old Angela Allen, a student at Butterfield high, went for a walk 7:30 PM from her grandmother`s house, a usual stroll she takes most of the time, 10 to 15 minutes. But her family says they never saw her again. She vanished into thin air, Nancy -- week-long search by air, by water, by land.

And Nancy, this girl was a vibrant, loving, outgoing girl who every time -- family say every time you`d see her, she would just run up to you and hug you and say that she loved you.

And as we go to air tonight, Nancy, unfortunately, this family preparing for the worst but hoping for the best. We have just confirmed cops have stumbled onto a large 50-gallon blue barrel buried two to three feet deep in a muddy grave. Inside, Nancy, human remains of a female.

GRACE: What do you know about the barrel itself? I know it`s a blue, 50-gallon barrel, about three feet under muddy earth.

NEWMAN: Nancy, this is a very large, as you said, 50-gallon blue plastic barrel. What we have discovered from police is that this barrel didn`t seem to be exactly completely sealed. It was sort of open. So cops looked inside and saw these human remains. And at this hour, testing is under way to make a positive ID. Is this the body of 16-year-old Angela Allen?

GRACE: And what more can you tell me about the girl herself? Who`d she live with? Where did she live? Where`d she go to school? What were her interests? Anything we know about her.

NEWMAN: OK, well, details are starting to pour out slowly here, but this was, again, as I said, a 16-year-old girl who went to Butterfield Junior High in Van Buren, Arkansas. Van Buren, also, Nancy, is about 17 miles away from the property where this blue barrel was found, Lavaca, Arkansas.

GRACE: She`s reported missing on Saturday, but it`s actually Friday when she goes for a walk, said she`d be back in 10 or 15 minutes. Is it true that she was assumed to be a runaway or a missing person instead of something more serious?

NEWMAN: Now, Nancy, let me tell you how this all went down. Beautiful 16-year-old Angela Allen went missing on a Friday. Apparently, she went out for a walk 7:30 PM that night. But then she never came home.

Now, we`re just getting this information in from police as we go to air. Her grandmother thought she would be back home -- this is 16-year-old Angela -- she would be back home in about 10 minutes. But then, of course, now we know she did not come home. Now, the next day, she was reported missing by family.

In the last hour -- here`s the stunner, Nancy. Big breaking news tonight. Police have stumbled upon a blue barrel stuffed with a body inside. That`s right, human remains found in a 50-gallon blue plastic barrel, Nancy, in a muddy, shallow grave buried about two to three feet under muddy earth.

Now, right now, we want to know, Nancy, just whose body is this in this barrel? Is it 16-year-old Angela Allen? Now, we`re not sure about that yet, but police are saying the owners of this property where this barrel was found in Arkansas, Nancy, they had no idea that this barrel was on their property with these human remains inside, Nancy, this body thrown away like trash, Nancy, in this 50-gallon blue plastic barrel.

Now, here`s what cops are telling us tonight. Because today is a holiday, an autopsy will be performed first thing tomorrow morning back at the crime lab in Little Rock. Angela Allen`s parents are, of course, hoping against hope this is not her. But the news right now seems kind of grim, Nancy.

Now, the local sheriff is saying the human remains are female, so that has been confirmed. These human remains are female. But just as I`ve already said, investigators are waiting on a positive ID on this body.

Here`s what we do know tonight. Female human remains found stuffed in a 50-gallon blue barrel. Now, at a news conference just held moments ago by police, all they`re confirming, again, is that this is female -- this is a female body. And within hours, just hours, we should find out, is this teen victim 16-year-old Angela Allen?

Now, the sheriff also says he wants to be 100 percent sure this is her before coming out and making that positive ID, although they are saying the clothing found in that barrel does match the description of the clothing that she was last seen wearing. But they want to be 100 percent sure before confirming that to us tonight.

Now, Nancy, I`m sure that all of your viewers, you know, they don`t think twice about letting their teen daughters or sons leave their homes. But here you go, here we are in a situation where a young 16-year-old girl on a stroll from her house, a stroll she would take all the time, vanishes into thin air, Nancy.

Now, as far as we know, this is a safe neighborhood, and there`s no missing person`s report in this area, which is also another reason to believe this could be the body of 16-year-old Angela Allen. Remember now, this is a 50-gallon blue plastic barrel, human remains inside, buried the feet under the earth, Nancy, on a hillside.

And we`ll have more information later on in the show with more details about this property, where this barrel was found and who this property belongs to, Nancy. Again, I just want to reiterate that the investigators say they do not believe the owners of this property had any idea about this blue barrel, Nancy.

GRACE: To Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what can you tell me about her? You know, so many clues as to their whereabouts can be determined from their interests, what they were doing, what we know about the high schooler, Angela Allen. What do you know, Ellie?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, there was no indication, the family says, that anything was wrong. They thought this was just going to be a short walk around the neighborhood. It was a Friday night. They were expecting her to just return in a few minutes. It`s not until she had been gone overnight that they really became concerned and got police involved.

GRACE: When she was first reported to police, was she reported as a runaway, a missing child? What do we know, Ellie?

JOSTAD: It`s not clear how the family characterized it when they called the police. But the police said at the outset that they were investigating it as a missing or endangered runaway, is how they phrased it.

GRACE: Tonight, a young high school girl, Angela Allen, student, Butterfield junior high, is missing, 5-4, green eyes, strawberry blond hair. At this hour, we know police cadaver dogs hit on a blue 50-gallon plastic bin. It`s buried three feet under muddy earth. Is it connected to this girl? And what do we know about a local level 3 sex offender?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Met through a social networking site. They conversed back and forth. He groomed her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Investigators, dogs and a dive team search for the missing teenager.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The search that may have discovered the body of missing 16-year-old Angela Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The investigation truly now begins.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The girl who went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Missing 16-year-old Angela Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cadaver dog did indicate on that specific suspicious site that we were focusing on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they discovered human remains buried and stuffed inside a plastic barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The barrel reportedly buried in a grave that`s shallow and muddy. That shallow grave about three feet deep. Police believe human remains are in the barrel. Who could they belong to? By all accounts, 16-year-old Angela Allen was loving, welcoming and warm. But now Angela is missing. Angela disappears after she lets her grandmother know she was going for a walk. But Angela never returns back home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love her. We miss her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Still hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Yes, we still have hope.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An autopsy will take place on the woman`s body for a positive identification.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Ellie Jostad, it`s my understanding that this girl may have been lured by a sex predator on line. What do you know about a level 3 sex offender in that area, Ellie?

JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. This man`s name is Lloyd Jones. He`s 36 years old. You see his picture there. Police say that he had been in contact with Angela Allen. They think that he first met her on FaceBook and then was subsequently exchanging messages her.

GRACE: I`m going to go to Woody Tripp, former police commander. Woody, explain to me any innocent reason a grown man, much less with a forcible rape conviction and anal sodomy accusations on his record -- what remote innocent interest does he have in texting a high school girl, Woody?

WOODROW TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER: Nancy, they`re defense attorneys. So we already know, regardless of what they say, no, there is - - there is no legitimate reason other than the fact he`s doing it because he`s sick.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us, Meg Strickler, defense attorney Atlanta, Paul Batista, defense attorney, New York.

Meg Strickler, a level 3 sex offender in the area. Now, I know for a fact this guy was arrested on charges of forcible rape. He had a box cutter held to the victim`s throat. She was allegedly anally sodomized and orally sodomized. That was in 2001. It`s 2012. Why is he out?

MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, from what I understand, he had a 10-year sentence that he has served, and now he`s out on parole, it appears. So he was on -- I would a assume with level 3 registration, he had some sort of ankle monitor on him. And he served his sentence...

GRACE: He doesn`t.

STRICKLER: ... is what his jury of his peers had sentenced him to. If he didn`t have one -- I`m not real sure what level 3 was, but it was one of the more high-risk sex offenders so that he was registered...

GRACE: Well, number one, the judge sentenced him to 10 years, not a jury. He does not have on an ankle monitor.

Paul Batista, why is this guy out free, walking free amongst us, a level 3 sex offender, which, by definition, statutory definition, Paul, is high risk of repeat offense? He could have gotten 40 years behind bars. He got 10. And he was out in less than eight, walking free while this little girl goes for a walk. What about it, Batista?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let me tell you something. He served his sentence. He has a right to be free. He is monitored all the time by the authorities. His name is posted on the Internet. The community is aware of him. He served his time. He did the crime. He served the time.

GRACE: Yes, I heard you the first time. You know, speaking of you saying the community is aware of him, isn`t it true, Ellie Jostad, that when all this broke about Angela Allen missing, the community actually said, We had no idea he was so close. Just because some of them knew he was in the same zip code, they had no idea how close a level 3 sex offender was to them. And is it true he had Internet access, as well, Ellie Jostad?

JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. In fact, a woman who lived next door to this man said that she wasn`t aware that he was a sex offender, according to a local newspaper. Also, Nancy, he did have Internet access. He did serve his time. He actually got out a little early, got out in 2008, and he ended his parole last year.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Chris in Illinois. Hi, Chris. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy. I was -- hey, Nancy. I was just wondering, we have no way of knowing it actually is this guy. It seems pretty easy to just sort of blame the sex offender. Is there anyone else that it could be, any enemies? I mean, I feel like if they just kind of put their eggs in the basket of the sex offender, they`re going to sort of miss if there`s anybody else or an enemy or somebody that she had. I mean, it seems to me, it could be anybody.

GRACE: An enemy that a high school girl had? Let`s see. What enemy could that be, Chris in Illinois? What, one of the cheerleaders didn`t like her? Come on!

Out to you, Jordan Grummer, "Southwest Times Record." An enemy? She`s a junior high school girl. Look at her. This girl didn`t have any enemies, Jordan.

JORDAN GRUMMER, "SOUTHWEST TIMES RECORD" (via telephone): No, I don`t believe she had any enemies. She was from all accounts, you know, very well-liked in the community, a pretty popular girl. And she definitely didn`t have any enemies that -- like the man from Illinois just suggested.

GRACE: Back to Ellie Jostad. Ellie, what can you tell me about her going on line, social media? Did she meet this guy on line?

JOSTAD: Yes, that`s what police are reportedly saying right now, Nancy. Apparently, her brother was able to get into her FaceBook account, let police take a look at messages there. They say they have both messages via social networking, I assume through FaceBook -- that`s what`s been reported -- and that he was also text messaging with her. So I assume that investigators are looking through those right now, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixteen-year-old Angela Allen left her home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I miss her beautiful red hair! I want to see her again!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She never came back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Could these remains belong to 16-year-old Angela Allen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Preparing for the worst but hoping for the best.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The days are really long right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A search that may have discovered the body of missing 16-year-old Angela Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The body of a woman was found buried in a barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On the private property of a convicted sex offender`s family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victim`s clothes are consistent with what Allen was last seen wearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m anxious, but I don`t want to find out.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Allen left her home in Van Buren. She never came back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Angela may have communicated with the 36-year- old offender.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They met through a social networking site.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Preparing for the worst, but hoping for the best.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There could be valuable evidence within that body and we certainly did not want to disturb any possibility of -- or contaminating that barrel, which is considered a crime scene itself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live in Arkansas and taking your calls. This junior high schooler goes missing. On Friday evening, she`s says she`s going out for a 10, 15-minute walk. She is never seen again. At this hour, local police have found a 50-gallon blue plastic drum, sealed, about three feet under muddy earth. We know there`s a body inside. After that, we don`t know a lot more.

Right now, we are wondering what became of Angela Allen. We also know a registered 3 sex offender -- a registered level 3 sex offender is within just a few miles of her, and we have reports that the two have been communicating on line.

Out to Ramani Durvasula, clinical psychologist joining us out of LA. Ramani, thank you for being with us. What is a grown man doing communicating on line with a junior high girl?

RAMANI DURVASULA, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Social media is the perfect setup for somebody who wants to be a sexual predator because there he can be who he wants to be. He can play it any way he wants. And a young girl is so unsophisticated. It`s so easy for him to bring someone into a web in that kind of a setup. So that`s what he`s doing.

I mean, whether -- why he`s doing it, what his motivations are, we don`t know. But at the end of the day, given his history of being a sexual perpetrator, again, it`s the perfect setup for him to draw someone else in.

GRACE: But Dr. Ramani, what I`m asking is, what is the psyche behind a grown man going on line, trolling for junior high girls? I don`t understand it. I know what happens. I know it`s the perfect setup. I get that. I`ve seen that a million times.

What I don`t understand -- I`m just a trial lawyer. Help me. I don`t understand the psyche of trolling on line for junior high girls.

DURVASULA: I mean, it can boil down to being something as simple as a paraphilia, of -- of getting sexual gratification from an inappropriate object. A young girl is an a inappropriate object. And that`s what it is. It`s pathology. It`s psychopathology.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they discovered human remains buried and stuffed inside a plastic barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s evidence, and an interview with the suspect led them to the area.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victim`s clothes are consistent with what Allen was last seen wearing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do these remains belong to 16-year-old Angela Allen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators, dogs and a dive team search the Arkansas River bottom.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Gruesome discovery was made.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The body of a woman was found buried in a barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cadaver dog did indicate on that specific suspicious site that we were focusing on.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As evidence led them to the area.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: To a plastic blue barrel human remains stuffed inside.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sixteen-year-old Angela Allen was a missing teenager.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We really miss her.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arkansas Police spent hours digging in a muddy grave.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police cannot yet identify the victim.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Buried in the ground three feet deep.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Found buried in a barrel.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Could these remains belong to 16-year-old Angela Allen?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: For her family, it`s a waiting game.

BILL HOLLENBECK, SEBASTIAN COUNTY SHERIFF: Could be valuable evidence within that bottom, certainly we did not want to disturb any possibility of or contaminating that barrel, which is considered a crime scene itself.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police spent hours digging in a muddy grave in a search that may have discovered the body of missing 16-year-old Angela Allen. Angela`s been missing since February 10th. Police say they discovered human remains buried and stuffed inside a plastic barrel. Investigators say it`s too early to identify the remains.

They fear Angela could have been the victim of an Internet predator who befriended her on a social networking site. Police now reportedly checking Angela`s online and text messages for clues.

What happened to 16-year-old Angela Allen?

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: By all accounts, 16-year-old Angela Allen was loving, welcoming and warm. But now Angela is missing. Angela disappears after she lets her grandmother know she was going for a walk. But Angela never returns back home. The very next morning, Angela`s mom reports her missing. Police scouring the area for the 16-year-old girl. Even looking online for clues. What happened to beautiful student Angela Allen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We are live and taking your calls.

A junior high schooler goes missing when she goes for a walk around the block there in her small town neighborhood. The junior high schooler, Angela Allen, 5`4", green eyes, strawberry blond, student, Butterfield Junior High. Now we learn of a level 3 sex offender in the neighborhood.

Why? Why is he out free? We know that he was convicted of forcible rape. Arrest was made also on aggravated sodomy, oral sodomy and aggravated assault with a box cutter. Why is he walking free? We also know that he has struck up an online relationship with this junior high school girl.

We are taking your calls. Straight out to Stacey Newman joining us.

Stacey, what can you tell us?

STACEY NEWMAN, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER (via phone): Nancy, this beautiful, vibrant 16-year-old Angela Allen we`ve been discussing tonight. Friends and family are in shock right now, Nancy. And at this hour, as we are covering this story, they are holding a candlelight vigil for this beautiful girl who friends tell us was very outgoing. Every time she would see family and friends, she would run, hug you and say, I love you.

She was also known for taking these leisurely strolls, Nancy. She wouldn`t be gone too long. But this was not uncommon for her to do. But unfortunately, this one evening she took this walk and it all ended in tragedy, Nancy.

At this hour, we`re waiting for a positive I.D. on these human remains found in a blue 50-gallon, plastic barrel buried under a muddy grave, Nancy.

GRACE: To Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon and pathologist, why are we waiting? Because, Dr. Lloyd, come on, it`s an extremely small town. Like where I grew up. There`s a girl missing. They find a female body. I don`t understand what the holdup is and making a positive identification. They`ve also told us the remains are wearing an outfit similar to what the girl had. Doctor?

DR. BILL LLOYD, BOARD CERTIFIED SURGEON AND PATHOLOGIST: It is a justice system that we live in and medical examiners have to follow specific protocols. So once they get that barrel and open it up, they`re going to very carefully remove the remains, wash the body, photograph it completely. Verify the identity. Perhaps with fingerprints but also dental x-rays to confirm the actual presence of Angela. Making sure that not just her clothes but other findings confirm her true identity.

GRACE: Joining me right now, Larry Fishelson, telecommunications expert, co-founder and COO, Dinalink Communications.

Larry, thanks again for being with us. What are they going to learn not only from her computer, but particularly her cell phone.

LARRY FISHELSON, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT, CO-FOUNDER & COO, DINALINK COMMUNICATIONS (via phone): Well, through the cell phone, they`ll be able to see every single call that was made, every single text that was made. All they have to do is get a subpoena for that. And they`ll be able to do that. Now, through the phones, especially if she had an iPhone, you could track through GPS the location while the phone is on every 45 minutes. So you`ll be able to see all this is stored in the Cloud, you`ll be able to see where she was and every single call.

GRACE: Whoa, wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Larry Fishelson, look, most of our panel are doctors, shrinks, lawyers, we`re not telecommunication experts like you. When you say it`s stored in a Cloud, you got to bring it down a notch for us. Go ahead.

FISHELSON: Yes, let me explain, Nancy. Sorry about the Cloud. All technology now, whether it`s through the cell phone, whether it`s through computer, is stored in servers on a network in a call location space somewhere. So everything that we do is stored out there in cyberspace, which is called the Cloud. So every phone call you make, every Internet access you use, every Facebook thing that you do, it`s stored on a network out there that can be gotten even if it was deleted. So it`s all stored out there in, shall we say, cloud cyberspace. But it is there.

GRACE: With us, Larry Fishelson, telecommunications expert. Now, is a computer going to yield the same discoveries that a cell phone does? Explain.

FISHELSON: Absolutely. Anything done on a computer that any entry you make, whether you delete it or you don`t delete it, it`s stored in the Cloud in the cyberspace network that can be picked up through a subpoena to the carrier. That is the same thing that is stored in the cell phones. We all use now what`s called smartphones, which are really computer phones. So whether you do it on an actual phone or on your smartphone, aka, a cell phone, it is stored out there to be seen.

GRACE: And Larry, while I`ve got you, you know, a lot of people are concerned that if she were instant messaging or pinning, that that will not be able to be traced. What do you know, is it more difficult to trace and resurrect pins or instant messages?

FISHELSON: Yes. An instant message isn`t the same thing as an actual call. So you`re not going to be able to trace the instant message, that`s correct.

GRACE: What about texting?

FISHELSON: Texting you will. Because when you make a text, it hits the cell tower and goes out. So any text made, you will be able to see. But the best thing about technology there now is once they get the proper subpoenas, all this information is out there to be seen. Once again, the Cloud it is there in cyberspace on servers that can be traced and tracked which should help this case tremendously.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Paul Batista in New York, Meg Strickler, Atlanta.

Come on, Batista, you`re putting perfume on the pig. What is a grown man doing texting a little girl? What`s the interest?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": It`s sick, Nancy. I`m not a psychiatrist. I`m just a simple country lawyer. It`s sick. It does not mean, however --

GRACE: Correction, you`re in --

BATISTA: -- that he`s guilty of murder.

GRACE: Hold on, Paul, Paul, Paul, Paul. You`re in Manhattan. So drop the country lawyer bit.

Go ahead, Meg. Weigh in.

MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you`re allowed to these days right now be on the Internet and tweet or Facebook or, you know, instant message, text --

GRACE: That`s not what I asked.

STRICKLER: You said what is a 40-year-old --

GRACE: I asked what is a grown man doing texting a little girl. What possible innocent explanation is there, Meg? I want to hear this.

STRICKLER: What I`m trying to say is right now it`s legal. You can do whatever you want out there in the social world.

GRACE: I didn`t ask you that. I asked you what`s an innocent explanation?

STRICKLER: Well, I`m going to go with Paul. We are the lawyers, we`re trying to kind of give the reason was he`s allowed to. He`s free to do it. What were going in his mind is for the shrinks to do. We`re saying that you`re allowed to do it. It`s all out there. And as you just heard from the technological person --

GRACE: OK. Great. Meg, I appreciate that. You didn`t answer my question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators, dogs and a dive team search the Arkansas River bottom near Lavaca for the missing teenager. Sebastian County Sheriff Bill Hollenbeck says evidence and an interview with the suspect led them to the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Arkansas Police spent hours digging in a muddy grave in a search that may have discovered the body of missing 16-year-old Angela Allen.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Sixteen-year-old Angela Allen left her home in Van Buren. She never came back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I really miss her. You know, I miss her beautiful red hair. I`m ready to see her again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Back out to Stacey Newman.

Stacey, what evidence do I have connecting this level 3 sex offender to this little junior high school girl? What do we know? What do we know about their Internet communications? Was he luring her online to be a victim?

NEWMAN: Well, that`s our understanding from investigators, Nancy, that he was using the social networking sites, I believe Facebook, as well as text messages to kind of like set up this casual relationship with this young teenager which eventually evolved into him luring her into this trap and according to our understanding, friends spotted his white pickup in the area before and it`s our belief that at this point when she walked away from the home that night, the white pickup may have been in that vicinity, Nancy, when she vanished.

So cops are saying these text messages and this online connection they had resulted in her disappearance and allegedly her murder.

GRACE: We are standing by right now waiting on a positive I.D. of the human remains found in that 50-gallon blue drum.

Back to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer.

Ellie, what I`m trying to figure out is what we know about their communications. How they struck up a correspondence online and what connection does he have to this location, if any, where the drum was found?

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE CHIEF EDITORIAL PRODUCER: Right, Nancy. Well, it`s unclear how he was presenting himself to Angela Allen. We weren`t able to find any kind of Facebook or social networking page that was under his name. So it`s possible he was using a different name, pretending to be younger. But police say that this piece of land where the barrel was found that we think contains her remains, they say this land is owned by relatives of the suspect.

GRACE: Out to Dr. Bill Lloyd, board certified surgeon and pathologist. Dr. Lloyd, I understand why cops did not unseal that drum which was very, very wise of them. Explain, Doctor.

LLOYD: As a crime scene, and a murder victim that`s there, there are plenty of clues to be discovered. But if those clues are contaminated, Nancy, by other`s fingerprints or other people getting inside the drum, then the case could be totally shot.

GRACE: Dr. Lloyd, because we believe the body is in this drum, we believe it could be the missing high schooler. What do you believe they could have preserved by not opening up the drum there at the scene? What evidence could they have preserved?

LLOYD: One important set of evidence are fingerprints. Not necessarily fingerprints outside the drum, Nancy. But fingerprints inside. Such as on the underside of the lid when whoever put the lid on that drum, they left their fingerprints behind.

GRACE: Ellie, what can you tell us about the location of this 50- gallon, plastic drum?

JOSTAD: Right, Nancy. This is only about 17 miles away from Van Buren, Arkansas, the town where Angela went missing. It was located actually near Lavaca, Arkansas, which is just a little bit away from there. They say this is a very muddy scene. Muddy earth they had to dig.

GRACE: You know, another issue I`d like to find out, if I could go back to you, Stacey Newman, is do we know the position of the body in the barrel? It`s a 50-pound barrel, but this girl obviously weighed more than 50 pounds. If that`s in fact her.

NEWMAN: That is correct, Nancy. We do not know the position of the body. But investigators did say in a news conference that, when they found that barrel, it was open enough where they can automatically see there were human remains in that barrel.

GRACE: Dr. Bill Lloyd, how does a 50-pound barrel hold a girl? She obviously weighs more than 50 pounds.

LLOYD: Nancy, if you can touch your toes, you can --

GRACE: I`m sorry, I`m sorry, it`s 50 gallons.

LLOYD: -- fit inside a 50-gallon barrel.

GRACE: Dr. Lloyd, Dr. Lloyd, sorry, I was saying 50 pounds. It`s 50 gallons. Go ahead.

LLOYD: Nancy, if you can touch your toes, you can fit inside a 50- gallon barrel. This girl could easily have been put inside that barrel. The important question is the timeline. When and where was she murdered, when was she put in the barrel and when was the barrel buried underground.

GRACE: OK. To Gaetane Borders, child advocate, Peas in Their Pods. Weigh in, Gaetane.

GAETANE BORDERS, PRESIDENT, PEAS IN THE PODS, ADVOCATE FOR MISSING MINORITY CHILDREN: Nancy, I want a shot at answering the question that you posed earlier about, what would a 36-year-old man be doing online talking to a young girl? This man who`s been convicted of rape. I`ll tell you why. He was looking for his next potential victim.

And that`s the thing I want parents to understand. It`s not an isolated case. If it can happen to Angela, then it can happen to anybody`s child. So we must know what`s going on online with our kids at all times. I don`t care if they tell you you`re being snoopy or a detective. You`ve got to investigate what your kids are doing online because this Lloyd guy, I trust -- trust me, he`s not the only one.

And if your child is online, they`ve come across a predator and they might be being groomed right now as we speak.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Sherri in New York. Hi, Sherri. What`s your question, dear?

SHERRI, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. Nice to talk to you. Your kids are beautiful.

GRACE: Likewise. Thank you.

SHERRI: What I`d like -- I`m so curious, how close was this barrel found to this girl`s house?

GRACE: I think it was about 17 miles.

Ellie Jostad, how close was the barrel to home?

JOSTAD: Yes, that`s right, Nancy. It was about 17 miles from her house. Now it`s buried on this property owned by the suspect`s family, Nancy. And it`s unclear if the people who live nearby even knew it had been buried there.

GRACE: And Elle, let me get this straight. She is from Van Buren, Arkansas. Extremely small town. And the body was found in Lavaca, Arkansas, about 17 miles away.

JOSTAD: Yes.

GRACE: OK. Got it, Elle.

Paul Batista and Meg Strickler. Here`s my question to you. We`ve got him, a 36-year-old convicted rapist who walked way too soon out of jail. There he is. Let`s see that vanity shot of him propped up on a motorcycle again, Liz. And I think that could be my favorite. Oh, self-portrait. Nice.

So we`ve got a 36-year-old male talking and tweeting and instant messaging and texting a little junior high girl, and we`ve got him, his white pickup connected to her last being seen. All right. What is keeping me, Paul Batista, from going ahead and striking my jury right now and trying him?

BATISTA: Well, what`s keeping you is the issue of guilt and innocence, Nancy. What`s keeping you --

GRACE: Don`t be sarcastic.

BATISTA: -- is the fact that we do not yet have evidence.

GRACE: Don`t be sarcastic with me.

BATISTA: That he committed the murder.

GRACE: OK. What I`m saying, Meg Strickler, is that right there, there`s enough circumstantial evidence. His vehicle with her last seen, a 36-year-old man, a sex -- a registered sex offender, e-mailing and texting with a little girl probably misrepresenting himself.

I mean, come on, any jury in their right mind is going to convict right there. But then there`s going to be a treasure trove of forensic evidence in this crime scene, the 50-gallon barrel, Meg.

STRICKLER: Let the Department of Investigations do their job so that you can definitely ensure conviction in this case. Why wouldn`t you let them do their job with the forensic data they`re going to get? In that way you will get your jury to convict.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Investigators from several agencies, including the FBI, continue to collect evidence from family property of Roy Jones. After finding what appeared to be shallow grave, investigators discovered a blue 50-gallon barrel with a body inside. Both the barrel and body were sent to the Arkansas State Crime Lab in Little Rock.

HOLLENBECK: We certainly didn`t want to disturb any possibility or contaminating that barrel which is considered a crime scene.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Let`s go to Gaetane Borders, Woody Trip and Dr. Ramani Durvasula.

Woody, how do they -- how do sex offenders go about luring a child online? How do they represent themselves?

WOODY TRIPP, FORMER POLICE COMMANDER, POLYGRAPH EXPERT: Well, Nancy, they troll. And how they do that is they impersonate someone that they`re not. They portray or pretend that they`re a certain age level, they have a different name, they`ll have a picture that they obtained of a 16 or 17 or however age or appearance that they want to portray, and they literally build a false identity to lure in unsuspecting children.

GRACE: Ramani?

RAMANI DURVASULA, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, they tend to be methodical and they tend to be persistent. They`re going to keep going until they find someone to engage with them. And once that engagement starts, then they can really draw that young person in. And that`s the danger. Some young people are more suggestible than others. And most of these cases they keep going until they find their mark.

GRACE: Gaetane?

BORDERS: You know, Nancy, the online luring is really not too unlike the real like luring that goes on, the training that these predators do. It`s the same thing, expect that they use the Internet to their benefit because they can look like, you know, like a monster, but yet portray themselves differently online, but they still feed into the insecurities of these young people.

GRACE: And to you, Gaetane, Woody and Ramani, the little girl wouldn`t have realized what was really happening until this guy snatches her and drags her into the truck and introduces himself as X from online. Probably the 15 or 16-year-old little boy she thinks she`s been talking to online.

Tip line, 479-474-1234.

Let`s stop and remember Army Sergeant David Drakulich, 22, Reno, Nevada, killed in Afghanistan. Bronze Star, Purple Heart, National Defense Service Medal, loved outdoors, hiking, cycling, playing guitar. Favorite music, indy rock. Leaves behind parents Tina and Joseph, sister Dana, brother Thomas.

David Drakulich, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. And again, happy anniversary to my executive producer, Dean Sicoli, and the whole staff in New York, Atlanta and L.A. that makes our show on crime and justice possible every night.

Liz, also, thank you to you and Ellie.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END