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CNN NEWSROOM

Cheney Defends Al-Awlaki Killing; Amanda Knox Appeal Ruling; High Drama at the High Court; Anti-Pakistan Rage in Afghanistan; Michael Jackson's Doctor on Trial; "Occupy Wall Street" Going Strong; Rick Perry and the "N" Word

Aired October 2, 2011 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. Thank you for joining us. It is the top of the hour. I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta.

Here is what's happening at this hour.

We're going to begin with politics and a vote of confidence for the Obama Administration from an unlikely source. Ever since former Vice President Dick Cheney left office in 2009, he rarely had anything nice to say about the current White House.

But on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" with Candy Crowley, Cheney backed President Obama's decision to kill radical cleric Anwar Al Awlaki in Yemen, yet as Candy reports the praise was not without qualifications.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN HOST, "STATE OF THE UNION" (voice-over): No weekend qualms about a U.S. drone strike into Yemen that killed a top al Qaeda operative who was also an American, thumbs up from the former Vice President.

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think the President ought to have that authority to order that kind of strike, even when it involves an American citizen, and there's clear evidence that he's part of al Qaeda, planning, and cooperating and supporting attacks against the United States.

CROWLEY: Ok by the former head of the CIA.

MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER DIRECTOR, CIA: We are a nation at war. And as belligerent (ph) have a right to kill or capture enemy combatants, trumps the fact that one or another of those combatants might have U.S. personhood wrapped around them.

CROWLEY: And the former ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee is in too, but she wants the Obama Administration to be transparent about its legal justification for killing an American without due process.

JANE HARMAN, CEO, WILSON CENTER: I believe there is a good case, imminent threat beyond our ability to arrest him, the -- the authorization to use military force against al Qaeda. He was complicit with al Qaeda. But I think the Justice Department should release that memo.

CROWLEY: In fact, two Americans were killed in the U.S. attack. The target, Anwar Al Awlaki, a master recruiter linked to several plots against the U.S., including the Fort Hood shootings, and Samir Khan an al Qaeda propagandist.

Despite his approval of the U.S. strikes something eats at the Dick Cheney, something President Obama said in Cairo in 2009 about the U.S. reaction to the 9/11 attacks.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fear and anger that it provoked was understandable. But in some cases, it led us to act contrary to our traditions and our ideals. We are taking concrete actions to change course. I have unequivocally prohibited the use of torture by the United States.

CROWLEY: Cheney says now that the Obama Administration, trying to protect the country, approved the killing of an American citizen, the President should rethink his suggestion that the Bush Administration's tactics were un-American.

CHENEY: They, in effect, said that we had walked away from our ideals or taken policy contrary to our ideals when we had enhanced interrogation techniques.

Now, they clearly have moved in the direction of taking robust action when they feel it's justified.

CROWLEY (on camera): You'd like an apology, it sounds like.

CHENEY: Well, I would. I think it would be not for me, but I think for the Bush Administration.

CROWLEY (voice-over): Still, the larger picture is worth noting again. Asked if the Obama Administration is waging a successful war against terror, Cheney says yes.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: The CIA, not surprisingly, is defending the strike that took out Al-Awlaki. Director Leon Panetta says, "Al-Awlaki's actions outweighed any qualms about his American citizenship."

Here's Panetta talking exclusively with CNN's newest anchor, host of "OUT FRONT," Erin Burnett.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEON PANETTA, SECRETARY OF THE DEFENSE OF THE UNITED STATES: This individual was clearly a terrorist, and yes, he was a citizen, but if you're a terrorist, you're a terrorist. And that means that we have the ability to go after those who would threaten to attack the United States and kill Americans. There is no question that the authority and the ability to go after a terrorist is there. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And you can see the rest of Erin's exclusive interview with Leon Panetta Monday night when her new show "OUT FRONT" premieres at 7:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

The State Department has issued a worldwide travel alert for Americans living or traveling abroad. It warns that followers of the al Qaeda figures killed on Friday could stage revenge attacks. You can read the entire warning on the State Department's Web site.

A former CIA contractor who recently spent time in jail in Pakistan has now been arrested in Colorado. Witnesses say Raymond Davis fought with another man over a shopping center parking spot Saturday. Davis is charged with killing two men while working in Pakistan for the CIA in January.

He was released in March, after compensation was paid to their families. Davis claimed he killed the men in self-defense.

Amanda Knox could learn her fate on Monday. Her 2005 murder conviction could be overturned, making the 24-year-old American a free woman; or it may be upheld, leaving her facing a quarter century behind bars in Italy.

CNN's senior international correspondent, Matthew Chance, has more on judgment day for Knox and her attempt to sway the court.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, this is likely to be the speech of Amanda Knox's life. For about 15 minutes, the 24-year-old from Seattle will be able to stand up in this Italian court in Perugia and make an appeal to, in her own words, to the judge and the jury, to overturn her murder conviction and to set her free.

Knox's parents who are here in Perugia tell us that their daughter has been working on what she's going to say for months. She's, of course, learned to speak Italian fluently in her four years in prison here, so it's likely she'll make the address in the local language.

Her former boyfriend, Raffaele Sollecito, also convicted in the 2007 murder of British exchange student Meredith Kercher, during what prosecutors said was a drug-filled sex game gone wrong, will also have the opportunity to speak, although it's not clear that he will.

Shortly afterwards, the jury will retire to consider all of the evidence in this case, returning with their decision, we expect, on Monday night, local time. Obviously, a great deal of anticipation here and around the world, as we await the outcome of what has been one of the most lurid, scandalous, and closely watched murder cases of recent years.

Matthew Chance, CNN, Perugia.

(END VIDEOTAPE) LEMON: All right. Matthew, thank you.

The traditional Catholic Red Mass today drew six Supreme Court justices along with several Washington power brokers. The church service is held every year before the opening of the Supreme Court's term. It's called the Red Mass because of the color of the robes worn by clergy.

This year's term for the high court won't lack for drama. Athena Jones runs down the cases that are likely to make headlines.

ATHENA JONES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Don, it's shaping up to be a busy term for the Supreme Court, with decisions expected on several big and politically important issues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONES (voice-over): Monday kicks off a new term for the Supreme Court, and health care tops the list of big issues the nine justices could take on. The Obama administration has asked the nation's highest court to rule on the constitutionality of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, the health care overhaul signed into law last year.

Lawsuits brought by 28 states and dozens of individuals and groups have challenged the federal government's right to require people to purchase health insurance, the key provision in the law. Analysts say the court will almost certainly address this hot-button issue this term, with a decision coming just months before the presidential elections.

TOM GOLDSTEIN, FOUNDER, SCOTUSBLOG.COM: The law itself is obviously, really important whether you like it or not. It has tremendous consequences for President Obama's re-election, because it's a signature achievement.

CARRIE SEVERINO, CHIEF COUNSEL, JUDICIAL CRISIS NETWORK: The politics of health care aside, this is -- this is the central issue. This could change the way the government and the people interact, you know, going forward in our country.

JONES: Among cases already on the court's docket, an electronic surveillance case that asks whether police can attach a GPS tracker to a suspect's car without a warrant. The central question, do motorists have any right to privacy on public roads?

Another about whether prisons can subject people arrested even for minor offenses to suspicion list strip searches. And a case about whether the Federal Communications Commission's indecency rules violate broadcast networks free speech rights.

GOLDSTEIN: It seems inevitable this term that they're going to have to decide what the free speech rights of broadcasters are to put profanity and some nudity on the air.

JONES: Other politically charged issues that could come up include immigration, gay marriage, affirmative action and abortion.

GOLDSTEIN: The Supreme Court term so far is shaping up to be pretty interesting, but it could become absolutely explosive and enthralling. It could be the most interesting one in a century.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JONES: Now there's one more important point I want to reiterate here, Don. And that's that the Supreme Court only takes on one out of every ten cases it's petitioned to review. And the justices haven't yet decided they're going to tackle this health care overhaul.

Still nearly every legal analyst you talk to says the court is going to have to wade into this debate, so it's going to be an interesting term here.

Back to you -- Don.

LEMON: All right, thank you, Athena.

He is accused of taking the life of pop star Michael Jackson with a lethal dose of drugs. Ahead, we'll look at what to expect at the high-profile trial of Dr. Conrad Murray in week two.

Also, growing anger in Afghanistan over perceived melding in its internal affairs by a neighbor. A report from Kabul is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A new accusation is testing the fragile relationship between Pakistan and Afghanistan and it could have huge implications for the war. Afghan officials said today that the assassin who murdered a former President was a Pakistani.

CNN's Nick Paton Walsh has more from Kabul.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The Karzai Administration very direct in their accusations, coming forward today and saying they believe the suicide bomber who killed top Afghan peace negotiator Professor Rabbani (ph) was a Pakistani national from the town of Shaman (ph). The assassination was planned in the southern town of Quetta, in Pakistan.

An interior ministry adding that they believe there was a quote, "no doubt assistance in this plot from Pakistani intelligence services" known as the ISI. Pakistan very quick to refute this, saying they have absolutely no (INAUDIBLE) with these allegations at all. But this is really raising tensions between these two neighbors.

Just literally the day after President Karzai came forward and quite provocatively said that he didn't see the point in negotiating with the Taliban in Afghanistan anymore. He thought there was more (ph) point in talking to Pakistan really inferring that actually it's Pakistan who is assisting, running, and harboring much of the insurgency here inside Afghanistan. Really, today's comments escalating that tension. Many unsure, really, if it can get out of hand between Pakistan and Afghanistan, given how much these countries have so much to deal with in terms of domestic insurgencies of their own. But certainly both now, perhaps comfortable at having some foreign outside influence they can focus upon to blame for their current domestic woes.

And also, America is certainly fuelling this -- themselves blaming Pakistan for assisting the insurgency here in Afghanistan and that surely must be behind these recent outbursts from the Karzai Administration here.

Nick Paton Walsh, CNN, Kabul.

LEMON: All right Nick.

When we come right back, we'll take a look at the high-profile trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. He's accused of killing Michael Jackson with a lethal dose -- lethal dose of the drug Propofol.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: In Los Angeles, testimony resumes on Monday in the involuntary manslaughter trial of Dr. Conrad Murray. He was with Michael Jackson when he died and has been blamed for the pop singer's death.

Criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor and legal analyst Holly Hughes here with a look at what's ahead. So Holly, more than a dozen witnesses in the first week. It was amazing. It was amazing to sit there and watch close up. And I actually think the testimony of what's going on in court is very interesting. What can we expect tomorrow?

HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think we're going to see more of the same. We're going to see the prosecution put their case up chronologically, in the way it happened.

They started out with the back story, as we like to call it. What happened leading up to his death? What kind of health was he in? What was the relationship between Dr. Murray and himself? How did he interact?

Then we get to that terrible day, the point of death. We hear from the paramedics who were there, everybody that was on scene. We've heard from the personal chef and all those.

We're going to go the forward now. We're going to talk to everybody who was in the ER that had anything to do with Michael's treatment and anybody at that hospital who might have heard something Dr. Murray said.

LEMON: All right. Let's talk here. Because I'm sitting there and every day, I've seen almost all of the testimony in person. I'm going to ask you this and then we'll talk. How do you think the prosecution's doing so far? HUGHES: Well, they're doing a great job so far, but they should be, Don. Remember, this is what we call their case in chief. If they weren't knocking it out of the park right now, they shouldn't have brought these charges. You know what I mean?

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yes. It's their turn.

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: The defense is going to get their turn soon.

HUGHES: Exactly.

LEMON: But the prosecution -- I have to say -- when they started, it was like a Hollywood setup. Everything, the video, the audio, everything they did was, it's like, I wonder who produced this for them.

HUGHES: Well, let me tell you something, Don. A trial is a show. And the most important audience is the folks sitting in the jury box. Those are the people you're playing -- you want it to go smooth. You want them to not just be confident in your performance, as it were, but if they trust you and they think you're together in the way you present, they'll trust your witnesses and they'll trust your evidence.

The prosecution, it's almost matter of fact. They ask everything. What kind of medication did you observe? When he went to the doctor, did he do this? Straightforward questions, straightforward questions. And then the defense comes back. And I think of Ed Chernoff almost as a Matlock type.

HUGHES: Well, you know what he's doing. He's brilliant. Because what the prosecution is doing is making a mountain. They're piling up all these things that they hope will prove guilt.

What Ed Chernoff is doing and even Flanagan is he's mining that mountain for nuggets. Little things that when you hear them, you don't think they're a big deal, but when he weaves all those little things together in the closing argument, you're going to go, ah, I never thought of it like that.

LEMON: I never even thought of that -- yes. And little things likes --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: That's what he's doing.

LEMON: If you mess up some word during your testimony or pre-trial, he takes it all -- so here's the thing. He's kind of trying to knock down the timeline. You could not do that in this amount of time and get up to that bedroom and be on the phone with Emir -- you couldn't do that. He was doing that to Alberto Alvarez.

HUGHES: Right. Absolutely.

LEMON: Ok. So, here's the thing. How do you think the defense is doing? Because I've noticed, there's been some back and forth with Ed Chernoff and the judge. They don't really get along that well. They've been butting heads.

HUGHES: But I'll tell you what. When you have an attorney as good as Ed Chernoff, you need to be careful because it looks like the judge is beating up on the defense, like he's taking sides. A jury is going to buck against that. A judge is supposed to be neutral.

And it does look like he's getting beat up, but Ed Chernoff can take it because you know what he does, he doesn't blink. "Yes, your honor," moves right on and gets what he needs.

LEMON: Ok. Let's see -- you said little things. You wrote an article. What was your article called?

HUGHES: I did. It's called "The State of the Case". And it's everything we've seen so far and how I think each side is doing. It's up on my Facebook page.

LEMON: Something that I noticed that people at home didn't notice, we were talking about the nation of Islam, Ed Chernoff keeps trying to bring that up and the prosecution keeps saying, objection, and then the judge sustains it. What they're trying to say is that the nation of Islam was involved in Michael Jackson's security and that in some way, maybe they had a way to cover up or to set up -- that's what -- and all you need is reasonable doubt. Not that any of that's true because --

HUGHES: Right.

LEMON: -- the company is owned by someone who's (INAUDIBLE) and little things like that you don't see at home. You see the family reacting to it like, oh, here he goes again. Emir, are you referred to as Brother Emir? What does that mean?

HUGHES: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: And it only takes one -- that's exactly right because then you take all those little nuggets that you have mined, you weave them into this fantastic closing argument, and you say, "This is a conspiracy. They are hanging this man out to dry, because something much more powerful is at play here."

LEMON: Because they had their own interests at heart.

HUGHES: Absolutely.

LEMON: They're going to be -- it's going to be so much -- people at home are going to go, what the heck?

HUGHES: That's exactly right. LEMON: But when you're sitting there in that courtroom, you notice all the little things, all the body language. And I have to say that what I have been saying all along is that -- not to say anything about Conrad Murray's guilt or innocence, but can you imagine a family having to sit through that and listen to that audiotape and see their loved one up on the gurney.

For the mom -- my heart just went out to the mother.

HUGHES: Right. Well, you know Don, by the time we get to the trial it's always so cold and clinical. We don't have a crime scene anymore. We don't have the blood. What the prosecution is doing in this case, as they should in every case, is painting the picture. A lot of people were upset about showing Michael in that bed --

(CROSSTALK)

HUGHES: You have to.

LEMON: You've got to show -- yes.

HUGES: It's their burden to prove that he has passed away and they're bringing it home for that jury. They're making them feel it just like you felt it.

LEMON: The family's there every day and they're sitting right in front of that jury and they know. They want the jury to see them.

Thank you so much, Holly Hughes. We appreciate it.

When we come right back, an anesthesiologist shows me how the drug at the center of this trial, Propofol, should be administered to patients.

Back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Prosecutors say Dr. Conrad Murray caused the death of pop star Michael Jackson by giving him the surgical drug Propofol as a sleep aid. I spoke to an anesthesiologist who gives us an illustration right outside the courthouse of how the drug should be administered.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: This is the kind of setup that Conrad Murray is accused of having in Michael Jackson's bedroom. And Dr. Barry Friedberg is an anesthesiologist. He joins us now to tell us.

Ok, so what is this? This is an IV.

DR. BARRY FRIEDBERG, ANESTHESIOLOGIST: This is an IV bag, and this is a Propofol infusion bag. And down here, you see the pulse oximeter, and that's the sensor for the pulse oximeter.

LEMON: And we've heard them talking about a pulse oximeter. We've heard them talking about --

FRIEDBERG: Ambu-bag.

LEMON: -- ambu-bag and all of these things. So they're saying -- and by the way, this is actually, this is a doctor's, this is actually Propofol --

FRIEDBERG: Propofol -- also called Diprivan.

LEMON: Also called Diprivan. And that's as they said the white, cloudy thing. It looks just like milk.

FRIEDBERG: Milk.

LEMON: Right. And you can show them what it looks like.

There we go. Ok.

And you said by ingesting this, which the defense is saying that Michael Jackson ingested that, if you took that or ingested that, what would happen?

FRIEDBERG: Nothing because the liver destroys 90 percent of the drug that's in your stomach before it ever getting to your brain.

Ok. So the prosecutors have said if the doctor had some of these things -- they're saying that some of the stuff he didn't have, that would have helped to save him, like what?

FRIEDBERG: Well, the ambu-bag, but the problem is, he had to be in the room to use it.

LEMON: Ok.

FRIEDBERG: You had to be listening to the pulse oximeter watching the airway to intervene.

LEMON: And what does this do? This --

FRIEDBERG: This squirts air into the patient's lung. This breathes for the patient like -- it's a manual ventilator as opposed to a mechanical one you see in the medical shows.

LEMON: And then this pulse oximeter is attached to --

FRIEDBERG: A fingertip.

LEMON: All right.

FRIEDBERG: It's an infrared sensor and that gives, you not only the heartbeat, but it gives you how much oxygen is in the patient's body and the tone changes when it goes down. So as long as someone can hear the tone, they can intervene.

LEMON: But they're saying that his didn't have an audible alert or something? FRIEDBERG: Well, they're saying he was out of the room, and they couldn't hear it. Well, that's essentially not having it.

LEMON: Ok. So that goes -- and you can hear it beeping.

FRIEDBERG: Right. Hold your finger still and it will catch the sensor. Hear it?

LEMON: Yes, I hear it. And this does?

FRIEDBERG: This is a brain activity monitor and this measures the effect of the Propofol in the brain. This is way beyond Conrad Murray's skill level, but this is the definitive way of giving Propofol, so that you give Goldilocks anesthesia.

LEMON: And that's in your estimation, right?

FRIEDBERG: Yes.

LEMON: And then this would be?

FRIEDBERG: This is a syringe with a needle that you could use to inject a port from the intravenous to give some medicine. This is a smaller syringe which would enable Conrad Murray to give the 25 milligrams of Propofol he claimed because Propofol is 10 milligrams per cc.

LEMON: All right. So he said 25 milligrams -- that's what he -- and that's what he says --

FRIEDBERG: That would be 2 1/2 ccs.

LEMON: That would be that.

FRIEDBERG: Right.

LEMON: And you would put that into --

FRIEDBERG: You would put that into here.

LEMON: -- into there and then you have it drip?

FRIEDBERG: Right.

LEMON: Is this usually something that you have in someone's home?

FRIEDBERG: No, absolutely not.

LEMON: This is something that you administer when you're --

FRIEDBERG: In an office space setting for elective cosmetic surgery, in a surgery center, in a hospital, but nobody would give Propofol without being able to hear and see the pulse oximeter.

LEMON: How often do you use these?

FRIEDBERG: Every day.

LEMON: Every single day.

FRIEDBERG: Every day I work, yes.

LEMON: Every single day.

Thank you very much. Thank you for showing us.

Again, there it is. This is what we've heard so much about and have learned so much about. We've heard Propofol, and in the beginning, when Michael Jackson died two years ago, we heard Diprivan as well.

But this is that milky substance that everyone talks about, and this is behind what prosecutors are saying they believe killed Michael Jackson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Dr. Friedberg's book, "Getting Over, Going Under: Five things you must know before anesthesia", includes a Michael Jackson chapter.

Police arrest hundreds of people, protesting what they are calling greed and corruption on Wall Street. That and more, top stories next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Let's get you caught up on the headlines right now. The Occupy Wall Street protests have begun in lower Manhattan two weeks ago has now spread to other American cities. Among them are Denver, Albuquerque, and Seattle. And despite the lack of leadership or coherent message, the protests, well, they just keep going, day after day. The primary message is a general discontent with the U.S. financial system, which many protesters say favors the rich over the poor.

The National Parks Service has halted work, assessing earthquake damage to the Washington Monument. You're looking at a live picture right now. The National Parks Service is waiting for high winds to subside after a gust Friday blew Eric Sohn about 30 feet while he was hanging from a rope at the top of the monument. Well, Sohn is part of the engineering team evaluating the building. He's fine, but the Parks Service says it will be Monday at the earliest before teams can work again. Amazing. The quake hit the monument on August 23rd, of course.

The death toll is climbing for a Listeria outbreak triggered by contaminated cantaloupes. As many as 17 people have died and 84 people in 19 states have gotten sick. The melons are from a Colorado-based Jensen Farms. The CDC says there could be more people affected since there is a lag time between eating the bad cantaloupes and becoming ill.

And the freedom of John Hinckley Jr., who tried to kill President Ronald Reagan in 1981 is back on the front burner. The government mental hospital where Hinckley has spent much of the last 30 years is asking a federal court to let him go live near or with his aging mother in Virginia. Hinckley was found not guilty by reason of insanity in 1982.

The only black Republican candidate for president is taking on the man many consider the leading candidate, all over a word. "The Washington Post" is reporting today that Texas Governor Rick Perry once leased a hunting camp that had the word nigger painted on a rock at its entrance, it was niggerhead, that's what the word was, the name of that camp. Well, "The Post" reports that witnesses say the word was not removed for years while Perry visited the place. Perry says "That is inaccurate," but his opponent Herman Cain says Perry showed a "lack of sensitivity for not removing the "n" word sooner."

Joining me now Goldie Taylor, editor at large .com and independent political analyst. joins me. Goldie, this is very interesting. So can you can say that Cain is taking a stand against Perry on the "n" word. It's a negative for Cain. Why do you say that? Explain.

GOLDIE TAYLOR, EDITOR AT LARGER, RIO.COM: At the end of the day -

LEMON: A negative for Cain?

TAYLOR: When you're in a GOP primary, that is not the place to talk about biases of any kind. If you are the candidate that the people are using to assuage any guilt or assuage any conversation they would not want to have about race, far be it from you to launch an attack on someone else in the race as being insensitive or even racist.

LEMON: OK. I get what you're saying. So as an African-American candidate, he can't really talk about race the same way Mitt Romney can't talk about Mormonism.

TAYLOR: Same way Mitt ROMNEY: can't talk about Mormonism -

LEMON: Or even really respond to it.

TAYLOR: Or even really respond to it. So Herman Cain is really in a tight corner here. How does he not react to something, you know, so vile, so despicable, and then how does he react in a way that doesn't offend the GOP base? You know, today the GOP is largely controlled, you know, by southern white males. The last thing they want to talk about is race in America.

LEMON: So he has to be careful. All right. Cain has been in the thick of it this week. He took a lot of heat about a statement that he made on CNN. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERMAN CAIN (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Many African-Americans have been brainwashed into not being open-minded, not even considering a conservative point of view. I have received some of that same vitriol simply because I am running for the Republican nomination as a conservative. So it's just brainwashing and people not being open- minded, pure and simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. And that set off another guest, Cornell Belcher, a political analyst for CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORNELL BELCHER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: If I came on your show, Anderson, and I said, all Jews, Jewish people are brainwashed, I probably wouldn't be invited back to CNN. What Herman Cain said was a racist, bigoted statement, and it should be treated like a racist and bigoted person who makes racist and bigoted statements.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: All right. What's your take on Cain's brainwashing comment? Is it racist?

TAYLOR: I think, if anything - he's not racist, but he's out of touch. This has less to do with African-Americans being so-called brainwashed as it does with generational party alignment. Back in the late '60s when the civil rights act was passed, it was done by a democratic president. African-Americans and others have routinely rewarded people in the White House and the party who they see as advancing their gains. So that's what happened in the '60s. And then Nixon came along with the southern strategy, and that solidified dixiecrats over into the Republican Party and African-Americans stayed democratic for the next several generations.

LEMON: Dixiecrats, I haven't heard that in a long time. Yes.

TAYLOR: Dixiecrats. And what did Republicans do? hey doubled down on the southern strategy. It was successful for them and this. They have gained governorships, they have gained state houses, they have gained U.S. Senate seats and congressional seats. It's been a real winner for them. So why backtrack now.

LEMON: And on this topic, you have been observing a trend that's happening online right now, and it links Cain with Uncle Ruckus from the Boondocks.

TAYLOR: I have.

LEMON: Just like this. There it is on Youtube. That's how he looks like. Explain this and what it may tell you about public opinion of Herman Cain.

TAYLOR: Well, first of all, I've seen this an awful lot. I've seen it in the public. I've seen it on social networks. You know, I'm very much familiar with the boondocks cartoon. This particularly instance is as deplorable as the niggerhead content being painted on a rock in front of Rick Perry's Rock Club.

But for Cain, he is seen in this race as the grand accommodator, much like Booker T. Washington was seen as that at the turn of the century. And so to accommodate those people who would not see the advancement of African-Americans or participate in the advancement of African-Americans is a very bad thing for him. And for him to come out and say that I, Herman Cain, because I am black, I can gain 30 percent of the African-American vote is outright fantastical.

LEMON: Right. I asked him about that and I asked him about race when I saw him at the Iowa straw poll, and got a lot of comments, "I can't believe you asked him about race because he's a black man." And it's like -

TAYLOR: Herman Cain has talked more about race than anybody.

LEMON: There you go. You know, our last conversation, we talked about leaders, African-Americans and African-American leaders criticizing the president. You know, the first thing, this is very interesting, I was in L.A. for the trial of Michael Jackson. The first thing Joe Jackson said to me is like, "Why are you getting on President Obama? Why are you going after President Obama?" I said, I'm a reporter, not an advocate, I'm just doing the report. What does that say? Does that sort of prove the point that it's difficult to criticize a black president?

TAYLOR: Is it difficult to criticize and African-American president? We are the kind of people who will circle the wagons no matter what the criticism is, you know, whether it's valid or not valid, and you'll see a lot more of that play out as this election wears on.

LEMON: It's amazing. It's just amazing to me, because people, I think, forget that we are not advocates, we are journalists and we have to report on the news.

TAYLOR: We ought to be. As people we ought to be about looking about all interests no matter who is in the White House.

LEMON: Thank you very much, Goldie. Always a great conversation. Appreciate it.

TAYLOR: Thanks for having me.

LEMON: All right. A new book casts a shadow on Walter Payton, one of the greatest football players ever to play the game. You'll hear from the author straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: A fight over a longer school day has Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel at odds with the teachers union. Emanuel wants to lengthen the school days, which are among the shortest in the country, at under six hours. Talks between the school system and the teachers union broke down this month. But six public elementary schools are going to 7 1/2-hour days and they'll get $150,000 and a two percent raise for teachers. Our education contributor, Steve Perry, has more on the squabble.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE PERRY, CNN EDUCATION CONTRIBUTOR (voice-over): Chicago's schools as a city are performing just as poorly as many of the others and worse than quite a few.

(on camera): And many Chicagoans are pretty upset about that. And so therefore I believe Mayor Rahm Emanuel is on the right track. He is saying, "Listen, I want the best teachers in and I don't want to be hamstringed by a union." The mayor tried to sit down with the union and say, "Man, what can we do? We're all in this together. You guys have been in charge of the situation for generations now. What can we do differently?" They, as they typically do, folded their arms and said, "We're doing what we've been doing. We're not going to give an inch." So they were put on the sidelines.

(voice-over): One of the most exciting things about what Mayor Rahm Emanuel is doing is he's saying, "Listen, I'm going to forego the leadership in the union -

(on camera): Because I believe that they're too entrenched in maintaining themselves, and I'm going to bring the message straight to the people. And what we find is that there's a current generational gap of new teachers. A group of young people who want to be able to prove themselves. And they believe that their performance should be the determinant of their job security. The mayor is proposing exactly that. What the mayor is saying is listen I will give you the highest possible salary I can, but I'm going to expect you to perform to receive it. I mean, what a novel concept.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Education Secretary Arne Duncan, who once headed Chicago schools, has called the city's short school day a disgrace.

Straight ahead, my conversation with the author of a new book that paints a new side to one of the most popular football players ever to play the game.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: For the first time in 15 years, Tiger Woods has fallen out of the top 50 in the world of golf rankings. Well, this ends his streak of 778 consecutive weeks in the top 50. Woods hasn't won a tournament in two years while battling personal problems and injuries.

He is known as sweetness. One of the greatest football players ever to play the game. An icon in Chicago long before Michael Jordan came to town, but there was another side to Hall of Famer Walter Payton that was carefully hidden from the public. A side that Jeff Pearlman spent 2-1/2 years uncovering for his new book, "Sweetness: The Enigmatic Life of Walter Payton." I talked with Pearlman earlier and I asked, "What was his biggest surprise researching the book?"

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF PEARLMAN, AUTHOR "SWEETNESS: THE ENIGMATIC LIFE OF WALTER PAYTON": I would say, I supposed once I started getting to understand him and know him, I mean, being honest, it was, you know, sort of after his career ended, you know, he retired and he was really looking for meaning in his life. And he was looking for something to do, like a lot of former athletes. And he became the front man in an effort to bring an NFL expansion franchise to St. Louis.

And he spent basically 2-1/2, three years working on this effort, putting everything into this effort. He wanted to become the first minority owner in the NFL, and it completely fell through. And when that happened, and it wasn't his fault at all, he got extremely depressed, extremely despondent. Started really questioning his purpose in life. And there's this sort of image of Walter Payton that's been known for years as this happy-go-lucky, gregarious guy, and lo and behold, he was a human being who had the same sort of emotions and occasional heartbreak that all of us have.

And I always pictured him as this incredibly happy and upbeat guy, and to hear that he was a human being who hurt and had these feelings and was really crushed after this happened to him, I actually, I know it pretty sounds pretty basic but it was kind of remarkable for me.

LEMON: Well, I want to ask you, because he's been gone now for 12 years. Did you find people still trying to protect his image, because you highlight some of his shortcomings in the book. You talk about his womanizing, his out of wedlock son, his depression, suicide, abuse of pain medications - he tried to talk about suicide, and all of that. You talked about those things. So I'm wondering, are people still trying to protect him, even 12 years after his death?

PEARLMAN: Well, I mean, from the reaction in Chicago, I would have to say, yes. I mean, it's been pretty - as "Sports Illustrated" ran an excerpt pertaining to his years after retirement and people are very, very taken aback by it. And I understand it on the one hand, I really do. Because here's a beloved figure and there's this sort of image of Walter Payton that's been cultivated, and he's almost a myth in his greatness across the board.

I come from the sort of perspective of why is it wrong to learn that our heroes or the people we idolize were humans with shortcomings, with failings, with faults. You know, he wasn't - I would not say he was a womanizer in the context, he was separated from his wife for the last 10 years of his life. And when people say he was a drug addict, you know, that term has been used in a lot of headlines, and I understand it, but the truth of the matter is if you poll former NFL players especially from that era, especially a guy who played 13 years and missed one game in 13 years, how many of those guys need painkillers to get through a day, I think you'd find an enormous percentage.

So, you know, some of the negatives I think have been hyped up a little bit. I understand the protection because the guy was so beloved and rightfully so.

LEMON: Compare this, too, then writing biographies about Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens. How did this book compare?

PEARLMAN: It's totally different. When I wrote the Barry Bonds biography years ago, I was begging for people. I mean, begging for someone to tell me a positive story about Barry Bonds.

LEMON: Wow. PEARLMAN: It was like, you know, looking for a nugget of gold in a toilet. You can't find it. It was so hard. And Walter Payton was this amazing man. Again I understand why people are so protective because he was amazing. His goodness was incredible.

LEMON: Hey, Jeff, final question. There's one incident that jumps out to everyone in the book. It occurred at his Hall of Fame introduction. Tell us about it.

PEARLMAN: Well, when he was - you know, Hall of Fame, of course, is the biggest moment in a football player's life. And Walter Payton was miserable. It was four days of misery. He had his wife, Connie, who he'd been married to for a long time but was supposed to separate from at this time, was in the first row of the induction. And his - his girlfriend was in the second row. And, you know, Connie had known about the girlfriend. But there was this real tension in Walter for the entire time. He kept worrying are they going to meet? Are they going to meet? Are they going to meet? They actually did finally meet at the end later on. It wasn't actually nearly the big deal that Walter Payton thought it would be primarily because he wasn't with his wife. He wasn't living with his wife at that point. But it kind of ruined his four days, these four, amazing great days of your football life.

LEMON: The book is called "Sweetness." And thank you. The pictures are amazing. If alone just for the pictures. Thank you very much, Jeff Pearlman, for coming on.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right. Up next, say it isn't so. Say it isn't so. There are rumors that my iPhones, that's right, I said iPhones, maybe be going out of date. Our tech expert Katie Linendoll explain. And I'll explain why I have two iPhones.

And last night I received an honor that is near and dear to my heart. Something I never thought would never happen. I'm going to share the details straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: If the rumors are true, it looks like my iPhones are about to be obsolete again. Take a look at the invite Apple sent out last week. A not so subtle hint the company is ready to announce the iPhone 5 on Tuesday. Tech expert Katie Linendoll will be at the Apple headquarters when it happens. So Katie, no one can keep a secret like Apple. Why does this brand get so much hype before a launch?

KATIE LINENDOLL, TECH EXPERT: Yes. No one can conjure up quite the tech hype and, of course, the rumor mill like the Apple brand. From a consumer perspective it's just seen what they come out with next and they're so innovative. Also when you're on top everybody's gunning for you. This event Tuesday, Don, I have to let you know, it's going to be a little different than others.

First off, let's talk about the hardware. We're talking about those iPhones. But it's looking like there not only will be an iPhone 5 but many are also pointing to an iPhone 4s, which will be kind of a little bit of upgrades that will be available. We talked about the buzz and the speculation. And even Al Gore was in on this. Two weeks ago he was giving a speech. A lot of people don't realize he sits on the Apple board. He said how about next month, those iPhones coming out in October. And everybody was like, oh, my gosh, maybe it is two iPhones.

Also on the hardware side, nobody's really talking a lot about iPods. Typically every September they do a refresh on the iPod line. Something we could also be looking for. Also notably let's remember, this is going to be the first presentation that Tim Cook, who has taken over for Steve Jobs, will be solely running.

LEMON: That's what I wanted to ask about. My iPod is like from 1984. It looks like a boom box. Everybody laughs that I haven't updated it. So it appears the new CEO, Tim Cook, he's going do it. And I'm wondering how he's going to do after taking over for Steve Jobs and how much will the switch at the top affect the brand. Also, a lot of questions in this one question. Any chance that Jobs might appear at this event?

LINENDOLL: It's a good question. I think if we see Steve Jobs on stage, it's going to be incredibly minimal. I also think it's going to be a symbolic passing of the torch. Perhaps something as little as a video message. I think Apple needs to make it very clear at this event that Tim Cook is steering the ship and they are confident in his abilities. We talked about what this could mean to the Apple brand, having Tim Cook take over. I think in the short term, and by short term, I mean one to two years, the Apple brand is fine. They've been working on products since Jobs has put them in a good place. When we talk about long-term brand extension for Apple, we have to understand that Jobs, this is his baby. Apple is Steve Jobs. He founded this in '76.

To have that visionary and that icon behind a brand and to have that gone, there's a lot of questions and a lot of challenges that Apple faces.

LEMON: So you ask, and I know you ask, Mr. Lemon, why do you have two iPhones? I had a blackberry and an iPhone. I went on vacation. I dropped the Blackberry in the ocean. The company bought me an iPhone. Therefore I have two iPhones. The iPhone is my personal phone. It was cheaper to get an iPhone than another Blackberry. What I miss about the blackberry is messenger. Blackberry messenger. So what new features can we expect? Is there a messenger like feature that I miss so much on the new iPhone?

LINENDOLL: Yes. So let's talk about the features. These are, of course, all speculation. But a number of things that we can actually predict heading into iPhone 5 or iPhone 4s, what have you, first off, let's talk about that bigger screen. I'll get to your messaging. Just bear with me here. Bigger screen. Also better camera. These are things that Android devices already have. Something eight megapixel 10 ADP in terms of video recording. Something the iPhone actually needs. Also this new advanced voice recognition feature. If you could e-mail or you could text somebody just using your voice, how cool would that be? That is looking like likely speculation. Also Sprint carrying an unlimited data version. That will probably be there.

But in terms of your messaging, remember that with these rumors coming out, with these features that will be upgraded, we also are going to see IOS 5, which is their next operating system. And something very cool about that is imessage, which works a lot like Blackberry messenger. You can see when somebody is texting you. You can see if they've read it, you can see when somebody's writing back. You'll be in good hands, Don. Do not freak out.

LEMON: I won't freak out. Just real quickly, got 10 seconds left. Seriously, when do we expect retail?

LINENDOLL: Oh, so we're seeing people - Apple has been telling their employees they cannot go on vacation October 9th to the 12th and also the 14th to the 15th. So about a week.

LEMON: Awesome. Thank you Katie Linendoll. Appreciate it.

LINENDOLL: Thank you.

LEMON: All right. Finally tonight, you know, I want to thank GLAAD, the gay and lesbian alliance affirmation for an award that I never thought I'd even win for something I never thought I'd talk about publicly. The Atlanta chapter of GLAAD honored me for outstanding citizen of the year award, recognizes my work and my memoir, "Transparent," in which I talked about the importance of being who you are. Gay, straight or otherwise, black, white, whatever, walk in your own truth. I am deeply humbled by the honor and I want to say thank you very much, GLAAD. Again, deeply honored. Thank you so much.

I'm Don Lemon at the CNN World headquarters in Atlanta. I'll see you back here at 10:00 p.m. Eastern.