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NANCY GRACE

DNA Proves Baby Kate`s Abductor Is her Father

Aired August 18, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Michigan. A 5-month- old baby girl, baby Kate, missing without a trace, snatched right in front of Mommy, Mommy left holding only the baby`s pacifier. We learn her clothes, the same ones Mommy dresses her in the day she`s taken, a tiny white top and pink diaper cover, have been found, but no baby Kate.

Tonight, the baby`s paternity is proven. As we go to air, DNA results are in. Are those DNA results motive in baby Kate`s kidnap? And tonight, with the prize for a healthy infant girl going as high as $180,000, is a black market adoption linked to this disappearance of baby Kate? Tonight, where is 5-month-old baby Kate?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A 5-month-old baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kate Phillips.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby was taken.

GRACE: Snatched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) at that point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Courtland called 911.

911 OPERATOR: What is it you`d like to report, Ariel?

ARIEL COURTLAND, MOTHER: The father of my child took our daughter. And I don`t know where he`s at with her. I was supposed to take her for a DNA test. He just does not want me to bring Kate there because he knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phillips has said that Kate is alive, and police believe he knows where baby Kate is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wouldn`t tell them where she was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Staying mum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s start enough not to incriminate himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It just seems like he`s guilty. Baby Kate`s clothes inside-out, rumpled up in his pocket.

COURTLAND: I want her back. I want to know why he took her.

911 OPERATOR: How long ago did he take off?

COURTLAND: Just now. I`ve been trying to call his cell phone. He`s not answering.

911 OPERATOR: 911. Where`s your emergency?

COURTLAND: (INAUDIBLE) apartments (INAUDIBLE)

911 OPERATOR: OK. And is there an apartment number?

COURTLAND: Yes, it`s (DELETED)

911 OPERATOR: OK. Is that where you`re calling from?

COURTLAND: No, I`m at a friend`s house. I had to use her phone (INAUDIBLE) walk over there.

911 OPERATOR: OK. That`s where -- OK, so you`re going to be over there (INAUDIBLE) And who am I speaking to?

COURTLAND: Ariel Courtland.

911 OPERATOR: OK, Ariel. And you`re calling from (DELETED)

COURTLAND: Yes.

911 OPERATOR: OK. What is it you`d like to report, Ariel?

COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter. And I don`t know where he`s at with her. She`s my daughter. He has no legal rights over her. I was supposed to take her for a DNA test at 1:00 o`clock and -- for him, for child support. And he came over, and I thought he was going to give us a ride there. So we got in the car, and I forgot something in my house. So I ran back upstairs to get my keys. And I came back down, and they`re gone.

911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. So he was supposed to transport you to a DNA. Are you sure he didn`t go there? Did you call the courthouse?

COURTLAND: He -- yes, he already -- no, he already went there. His appointment was an hour before mine was. He had already took the test. He just does not want me to bring Kate there because he knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.

911 OPERATOR: OK. So he was supposed to give you a ride to the DNA test at the courthouse, right?

COURTLAND: No, it`s at the hospital.

911 OPERATOR: At the hospital?

COURTLAND: Yes.

911 OPERATOR: OK. And how long ago did he take off?

COURTLAND: Just now, five minutes ago. I`ve been trying to call his cell phone. He`s not answering.

911 OPERATOR: OK, what kind of vehicle was he in?

COURTLAND: He`s driving a silver Intrigue.

911 OPERATOR: OK, Intrigue. Do you happen to know the plate or...

COURTLAND: No. I`m sorry.

911 OPERATOR: OK. That`s all right. That`s all right. OK, Ariel, we`ll send somebody over so you can file a report, OK?

COURTLAND: OK. Thank you.

911 OPERATOR: Bye-bye.

COURTLAND: I put them on her that morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are these the clothes that you last saw her in?

COURTLAND: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators told the court those were the clothes the sheriff`s deputy discovered in Sean Phillips`s pocket the day baby Kate went missing. They say the outfit was found when a sheriff`s deputy began to pat Phillips down before taking him to Ludington for questioning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I observed a bulge in his right frontal (ph) pocket of his shorts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both the deputy and a Ludington officer testified that Phillips was pacing, nervous, even had a muscle twitching when investigators talked to him in person for the first time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live, Michigan, a tiny 5-month-old baby girl snatched just within arm`s reach of her own mother. As we go to air, baby Kate`s paternity proven. DNA results are in, and are they motive in baby Kate`s kidnap?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kate Phillips.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A devastating case.

911 OPERATOR: 911. Where`s your emergency?

COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter. And I don`t know where he`s at with her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine Phillips is still missing.

COURTLAND: She`s my daughter. He has no legal rights over her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are these the clothes that you last saw her in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I put it on -- I put them on her that morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) an infant outfit.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Along with the clothes, Kate`s diaper bag and carseat were found in the trunk of Sean Phillips`s car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just isn`t talking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sean Phillips charged with kidnapping baby Kate.

GRACE: For his own protection, police put on a bulletproof vest. He may need one!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: America`s not going to stand for another baby killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) abortion (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very nervous.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The muscle in his right bicep is twitching.

COURTLAND: He knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A mystery Courtland says she cannot solve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Kate now?

COURTLAND: I have no idea.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Tonight, where is 5-month-old baby Kate? With the price of a baby, a healthy infant girl on the black market going for $180,000 in some parts of this country, is a black market adoption linked to the baby`s disappearance?

And tonight, we learn the alleged father of the child refuses a polygraph, as the mom passes a poly. As the alleged father implicates the mother, claiming that she was the last one with the baby, we learn that she goes -- steps out the door and vomits when she learns she is being implicated in baby Kate`s disappearance. Repeat, she passes a polygraph.

We are live in Michigan and taking your calls in the disappearance of baby Kate. Straight out to Heather Lynn Peters, writer with "The Muskegon Chronicle." I understand that the mom passes a poly, and that the alleged father flunks a poly. Is he connected to handing the baby off to someone else? And what do we know about DNA, Heather Lynn Peters?

HEATHER LYNN PETERS, MUSKEGON CHRONICLE (via telephone): Well, they`re all really good questions, Nancy. This case has just been heartbreaking from the beginning.

Ariel claims she took a polygraph and passed. She says Sean has refused to do so. In terms of where this baby is, it`s anybody`s guess right now. There`s been no proof that she`s been given up to somebody. There`s no proof that she`s deceased. You know, people are just banging their heads against the wall right now.

GRACE: To Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story. DNA -- somebody, can anybody answer the question about the DNA results? Who`s the daddy, Zarrell?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Yes, Nancy, we can finally answer that question. The family has told us the paternity proves the suspect, Sean Phillips, is baby Kate`s father. There is no question at this point.

But you have to wonder what happened to baby Kate? Did Sean Phillips give her to a friend? Right now, from our understanding, Sean Phillips has given indications he is not going to reveal any information. He is not talking, but insists that baby Kate is still alive.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Eleanor Odom, senior attorney with the National DAs Association, Jason Oshins, renowned defense attorney out of New York and New Jersey, Randy Kessler, chair of the family law section of the American Bar Association.

First of all, to you, Eleanor Odom. Now that I know what the DNA results are, that he is, in fact, the biological father of this baby, you`d think that that would somewhat exonerate him.

ELEANOR ODOM, NATIONAL DAS ASSOCIATION: Well, Nancy, I don`t know how it`s necessarily going to exonerate him because you remember, he is also the last one with that baby, when the baby was last seen alive. Remember what else, Nancy, the little baby`s clothes were actually found on the father. So he`s got a lot of explaining to do.

GRACE: Yes, and at this point, he`s not speaking to anyone. He was speaking to the baby`s mother, but he refuses to answer questions about baby Kate.

To Jason Oshins. My point is, of all people, if you`re going to protect anybody, it would be your own child. Come on! You`ve got children. The fact that they`re your biological children, that they are your children, biological or adopted -- you expect the mother and father to protect them. Yes, we hear about abuse all the time, but of everyone in the world, you expect a father and mother to protect a child.

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, you`re exactly right. I mean, of anyone, it`s the parental obligation. I mean, the law designates -- that`s besides the fact those are your children. I mean, whether he knew or not by the DNA test, the mother is listed as the only paternal (SIC) parent. I don`t think that really makes a difference. The law is going to look to him. He was the last one that had control. And no doubt about it, he had a responsibility.

GRACE: To Randy Kessler. You are now the new chair of the family law section of the American Bar Association. Family law -- that means cases just like this. What price would a healthy infant girl go for? Recent reports show as high as $180,000 to get a healthy infant girl.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right. And that just shows the value that society places on healthy young kids. The truth of the matter is, we hope he sold that child because the alternative is much worse. If he sold that child, there`s hope for the child. That`s what we wall want. But you`re right, the prices are significant.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. We are live in Michigan, in the desperate search for baby Kate. As we go to air tonight, we learn the results of that DNA test. He is the biological father of baby Kate. But did he know that when he either kidnapped her or handed her off to a family, a mother, a father, that wanted her? Tonight, no sign of a body, no suggestion the baby is dead.

Out to Natisha Lance, also on the story. What more can you tell us, Natisha?

NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, you just raised the question, did he know that he was the father? Something important to keep in mind here when Kate went missing is that they were supposed to go and get this paternity test done for her that day. He had submitted to his DNA test earlier that morning, and he was supposed to take Kate, as well as the mother, to get Kate`s test done.

Instead of doing that, he took them down to the Department of Human Services to try to get the mother to give Kate up for adoption. When she refused, he took her back home, and that is when he sprang (ph) off and drove off with Kate, according to the mother.

GRACE: They you go, Oshins and Kessler! How`s that going to look in front of a jury? He tells the mother, Yes, I`ll go down and fill out the forms for garnishment. He`s heading to Afghanistan. And instead, he drives the mom and the baby up to the adoption bureau! What about it, Oshins?

OSHINS: Hadn`t she already done something towards possibly having the child adopted?

GRACE: Don`t push this back on the her!

OSHINS: Nancy, I`m not saying that it`s her.

GRACE: Yes, you are! Yes, you are!

OSHINS: I`m -- no, I`m not.

GRACE: Yes, you are!

OSHINS: I`m just saying...

(CROSSTALK)

OSHINS: ... it`s something you think about.

GRACE: Yes, he tried to talk the mother into adoption, and she discussed it, but she didn`t want to adopt. She wanted garnishment. He takes her up to the bureau for adoption that morning, not to get his wages garnished, Kessler! How`s that going to look to a jury?

KESSLER: Well, it`s going to look not as bad as it could if she was fighting and kicking and screaming. She went along with it and she...

GRACE: Oh, yes, blame the mother! What a crock!

KESSLER: It`s mitigation.

GRACE: Tip line, 888-787-7274. Don`t blame the mother! She`s the one that passed the poly, Kessler!

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter. And I don`t know where he`s at with her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We still don`t know the whereabouts of baby Kate.

GRACE: There is a reward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The clothes she was seen wearing.

GRACE: For the recovery of baby Kate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By her mother the day she was kidnapped have been found.

COURTLAND: We got in the car, and I forgot something. I ran back up stairs to get my keys.

GRACE: Snatched right in front of Mommy. Baby Kate disappears.

COURTLAND: When I came back down, they`re gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: He drives them without telling the mother to a big brick building to put the baby up for adoption.

We are live in Michigan and taking your calls, the search turning desperate in the search for this 5-month-old infant, baby Kate. The dad -- the alleged dad at the time, they had not done a DNA testing for paternity at that time. We got those results in tonight. He is the father. He did not know that at the time. He says he`s taking her to go fill out forms for his wages to be garnished while he`s in Afghanistan. The mom, the dad, the baby head to the garnishment office. Instead, he pulls them both up to the adoption bureau to give the baby up for adoption. Mom says no way. Now, the baby is gone.

We are taking your calls. But I want to go out to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. Marc, I want to hear your thoughts on this, but first, a pointed question. The mom has passed a polygraph. She`s the one that calls 911. We can place them at certain points that morning that corroborate her story as to what happened. She says she goes in to get something for the baby, comes out with the baby`s pacifier, and the baby, the car, everything is gone. That is the chronology that she has given police. We have no reason to doubt it. Weigh in.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: I think you`re absolutely correct. There is no reason to doubt it. But it looks to me like a situation where we have children -- emotionally immature people having children, and that there was some kind of a toxic mix there. I suspect that Sean believed that he would have -- he would be paying -- he would be paying child support payments for the next 18 years for not one but two children. I think he felt boxed in like that, like so many people do. Scott Peterson would be a good example. And he then acted out of desperation in an evil way.

And I believe that he probably undressed the baby, left her body someplace where the critters could get to her, so that there would be absolutely no evidence, and that he was arrested before he was able to get rid of her clothing. He`s never going to tell anybody...

GRACE: Hey, Marc...

KLAAS: ... where that child is.

GRACE: ... look at your monitor. Look at your monitor. The last time the mom sees the baby, she`s in this carseat. That carseat, Marc Klaas, was later found in the father`s trunk. What does that say to you, Marc?

KLAAS: It tells me that he didn`t have a plan. He was trying to get rid of the baby. He didn`t want to pay for the next 18 years, but he didn`t have a plan. He`s a stupid young man that acted impulsively and got caught with his hand in the cookie jar.

He has the clothes. He doesn`t have the baby. He`ll never tell anybody where the baby is. He didn`t sell that baby, Nancy. He doesn`t have any money. You don`t see any money in his account or in his mattress. It`s just not there.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Debbie in Delaware. Hi, Debbie. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. My question was answered, but I have another question now. He`s taken this child and no one can find the child. They think he`s done harm to her?

GRACE: Is that your question, do they think he`s done...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

GRACE: Yes. Yes. We`re worried. We`re concerned. The baby is missing. He won`t tell the mom what he did with it. We know that there is a black market in that area for healthy young infant girls, some places in the country up to $180,000. Yes, if the baby is alive, he`s responsible for kidnap. If the baby is dead, he`s responsible for murder. Those are the two alternatives. Those are the only choices.

And tonight, weighing in, we have Mom passing a polygraph, Dad not passing a polygraph. I want to talk about -- Paul Penzone, former sergeant of Phoenix PD, child advocate -- the significance of that carseat being found in the trunk. What about it, Paul Penzone?

PAUL PENZONE, FMR. SGT., PHOENIX PD, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, as Marc was stating earlier, it`s obvious that, as a young adult, he was probably acting spontaneously. Normally, (INAUDIBLE) law enforcement the first 24 hours...

GRACE: Wait a minute! Wait a minute!

PENZONE: ... are the most critical after, but...

GRACE: Why do you and Klaas keeping talking about young adult? He`s old enough to vote, to drink, to get married and go fight in Afghanistan, all right? When my father was that age...

PENZONE: Oh, there`s no excuse for this.

GRACE: ... he was halfway around the country in the World War, all right? I had two jobs and was in law school. I don`t want to hear about young adult.

PENZONE: There`s no excuse for his behavior. That`s not where I was headed with that at all.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COURTLAND: I thought he was going to give us a ride there, so we got in the car. And I forgot something in my house, so I ran back upstairs to get my keys. And I came back down, and they`re gone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Take a look at this baby, just 5 months old. Baby Kate may be alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although it`s difficult to imagine what safe place she could be, the police and the family aren`t giving up hope they will find Kate alive.

GRACE: Missing without a trace. Tonight...

COURTLAND: She has a full life to live ahead of her. I was looking forward to spending it with her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where was Katherine?

COURTLAND: (INAUDIBLE) clothes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where did you last see them?

COURTLAND: I put it on -- I put them on her that morning.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Visibly shaken, baby Kate`s mother, Ariel Courtland, testified that the clothes taken from Sean Phillips`s pocket were indeed Kate`s.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are live in Michigan and taking your calls. Back to Paul Penzone. I`m going to go to you, as long as you don`t start talking about what young people they are, as if that`s some kind of an excuse for giving away your baby or killing your baby. All right, you got the floor. Go ahead, Penzone.

PENZONE: I`m the anti-excuse guy. There is no excuse. But what I was trying to do is draw the parallel between age and immaturity, although they`re completely different. You can find someone who`s an adult and they`re immature. But young adults that don`t have the maturity -- if you look at a lot of things that occurred with him -- he held onto pieces (ph) knowing that law enforcement would come looking for him because he`s the prime suspect because he`s the last one with the child. So why would you be holding onto those items? He was very anxious when they got there, walking around out in front of his home. What I said about the 24 hours -- the first 24 hours...

GRACE: Pacing.

PENZONE: ... after a crime...

GRACE: Pacing. He was pacing, Paul Penzone...

PENZONE: Absolutely.

GRACE: ... according to police, like a caged tiger, back and forth, back and forth.

PENZONE: Yes. The first 24 hours are critical. But what you need to do is go back a few days with him to see if he had any contact with anyone that could have facilitated what we believe may have occurred. If not, what you see, as Marc Described -- spontaneous, responding to it, not knowing what to do. And we just pray that that child is safe somewhere, that if he did hand it off to someone, it is still healthy. But...

GRACE: You know...

PENZONE: ... my fear`s like Marc described...

GRACE: ... you just reminded me...

PENZONE: ... it may not be the case.

GRACE: You just triggered something in my mind, Paul Penzone.

Back to the lawyers, Eleanor Odom, Jason Oceans, Randy Kessler. The cops thought when they pulled up to the father, Sean Phillips, he was going to take a punch at them because he actually took a boxer`s stance as they were standing there.

I mean, come on! Eleanor, when you have ever been approached for, let me just suggest, running a red light or going 35 in a 25, I guess you didn`t get out of your car and take a boxer`s stance, did you, Eleanor?

ODOM: Well, if that had happened, I certainly wouldn`t have done that, Nancy. But you know, it goes to his state of mind. And listen, what we know about his state of mind is he never wanted this child. Whether or not he knew he was the father from the DNA test, he didn`t want little baby Kate.

GRACE: You know -- yes, what about it, Oshins? He didn`t want the child -- yes, child support payments. So much worse than life behind bars!

OSHINS: You would think if he knew where that child was, if he had negotiated its sale, that somehow, at this point, he`d come back and let us know where that child was.

GRACE: What about it, Kessler?

KESSLER: Child trafficking is a horrible problem, underreported in America. And he might have thought these were the people taking the child coming to do something to him.

GRACE: Yes, they had on police uniforms, Kessler.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Katherine Phillips is still missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snatched within arm`s reach of her own mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ran back upstairs to get my keys and I came back down and they`re gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sean Phillips. He just seems like he`s guilty.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father of my child took my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He hasn`t told anyone where she is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And they started brisling him. They found baby Kate`s clothes in his pocket.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kate`s pink diaper covers have been found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The baby`s clothes were found on him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have the clothing in his pocket, there is motive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Kate now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s not talking, he`s refusing to cooperate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s just isn`t talking.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I tried to call his cell phone and he`s not answering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because of this Casey Anthony story, America`s not going to stand for another baby killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phillips has said that Kate is alive, and police believe he knows where baby Kate is.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God bless her and bring her home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: During their conversation, Phillips was extremely nervous and aggressive at one point said he was not telling the whole truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was punching his fists. I was watching him, he was wearing a t-shirt, I could see a muscle in his right biceps twitching involuntarily.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: We are live in Michigan, taking your calls.

The search turning desperate in the search for this five-month-old baby girl, baby Kate. Katherine Phillips, last seen outside her mom`s home, literally her mom turns her back gets inside, gets a pacifier and something else, comes out the baby is gone.

And tonight behind bars at the time thought to be the father Sean Phillips or refusing to talk about baby Kate. As a matter of fact, according to those that have spoken to him, he thinks this is all a joke, a big game. That he`s going to walk Scott free.

This is baby Kate still missing.

We are taking your calls out to Kim in Arkansas, hi, Kim, what`s your question?

KIM, CALLER, ARKANSAS: Hi, Nancy, I actually have a question and a comment. The comment first. I`ll make it quick, my first comment is, what is it going to take for people to realize that these little kids are little kids? I am a case volunteer and we work so hard to help kids in need. There`s a baby girl out there, is an amber alert been issued for her? Even though they kind know what happened?

And my question is what is it going to take for these people who hurt children, period? To get the message that number one will not be tolerated, that there is severe punishment, it`s not a joke, it`s not a game. A 3-year-old in Missouri was just killed 20 minutes from us. And this isn`t a game.

GRACE: I have to tell you something, Kim in Arkansas, your assertion that mistreatment and murder of children is not going to be tolerated, well, there`s a Florida jury that disagreed with you. In the tot mom Casey Anthony case.

KIM: I know it made me sick.

GRACE: That is such a horrible message to the world.

KIM: It is.

GRACE: And in cases just like this, Kim in Arkansas, but regarding the amber alert. Let`s find out about that, to Heather Lynn Peters writer with the Muskegon chronicle. Did an amber alert go out?

HEATHER LYNN PETERS, STAFF WRITER, MUSKEGON CHRONICLE: It did. At the beginning they weren`t sure what they had on their hands. I spoke with Ariel. Ariel Courtland, baby Kate`s mother, she gave no indication immediately you know this is a horrible outcome that`s going to happen. I mean she tried her best to say they just left, she gave really good information.

And then I think authorities caught up with Sean Phillips you know within a couple hours.

GRACE: Yes. And we just heard defense attorney at Atlanta, Randy state that the alleged father took on a boxing stance when he saw they may be the people that took the baby? Yes, they were in uniform.

Let me go quickly. I want to go back to - before I go to Natasha lance, let`s go to Dr. Vincent de Mayo, former chief medical examiner in Bear county.

Doctor, Thank you so much for being with us. We now know that the DNA test was taken. We have the results. Phillips is the father of the baby. How accurate are those tests, doctor?

DR. VINCENT DE MAYO, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER IN BEAR COUNTY: They`re about 99.9 percent accurate. I mean, it`s him. There`s no doubt about it. He`s the father.

GRACE: You know, regarding those clothes, the clothes that the mommy dressed her in that day, Dr. de Mayo, it was a little pink top and little - excuse me - of white top and a pink diaper cover. They were found stuffed in the father`s pants pockets.

Now, there`s a camp that believes that when children are handed off for adoption, that there`s no trace, illegal black market adoption, there`s no trace on the child that connects them back to the family. Other people say no, he killed her. What evidence, if any could be obtained from those clothes?

DE MAYO: Aside from examining the clothes for evidence of blood. But it`s probably nothing on there. The child`s probably dead, it`s hard to say that, but that`s the probability. He either disposed of in one of those big garbage bins or just discarded in a wooded area for the animals.

GRACE: You know what doctor I know you`ve seen so many autopsies of little infants. Just looking at this baby and imaging her thrown into a dump or discarded that way it`s brutal to actually sit there and allow your mind to go through to that ultimate ending of this child dying in that way. I know there are no good choices tonight. But I`m hoping he gave the baby away. That`s what I`m hoping.

To Brian Russell, Dr. Russell, forensic psychologist. I want to talk quickly about why this dad may have held on to the little clothes we`re showing you, the little white top and the pink diaper cover? I`ve noticed in many, many cases, and not just murder cases, people keep mementos of illegal acts. Weigh-in.

DR. BRIAN RUSSELL PH.D., FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: That is true, I think in this particular case what is going through my mind is an unsophisticated mind like it seems like this guys is, might have thought if he were to dispose of this child before the DNA testing was done, and to keep the clothes, when the body was found if it was found there may not be a way to identify it.

GRACE: What about it?

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t know if Mr. Phillips thought any of this through. I mean I think one thing you can say, is that killers generally like to hold on to mementos that`s something they like to do.

GRACE: You know you just said something that he didn`t think it through. That`s an interesting and provocative thought, Kessler or It was been said because it was spur of the moment.

The mom goes in, she comes out, they`re gone. Another thing, Kessler is that her cell phone, the mom`s cell phone was in the car. I wonder if cops tried to track it.

RANDY KESSLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That takes away premeditation first of all. If he didn`t think about it.

GRACE: No, it doesn`t because premeditation can be formed just like that.

KESSLER: He was scared, rushing in the moment. He`s going to have a defense but the truth of the matter is the state has an uphill battle right now, there`s no body, there`s no eye witness and there`s no death penalty in Michigan anyway. So they`ve got him on kidnapping that may be the most they get out of him, there may be a plea where he doesn`t spend his life in jail.

GRACE: Weigh in Ellen.

ELEANOR ODOM, SENIOR ATTORNEY, NATIONAL DISTRICT ATTORNEY`S ASSOCIATION: Of course they have him on kidnapping, Nancy. They have him on child endangerment, perhaps cruelty to children, obstruction of justice. You defense tones out there don`t think he`s going to get off Scott free, there are a bunch of charges we can place on him and prove right now, Nancy.

GRACE: And you know Eleanor, out of the word to use Scott free, according to sources, that`s what Sean Phillips believes, that he will walk Scott free on this, because the baby has not been found, by black market adoption or a body. But I got news for you Phillips, you can run, but you can`t hide. We`re going to find baby Kate one way or the other.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, he was supposed to give you a ride to the DNA test at the courthouse, right?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, at the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the hospital?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And how long ago did he take off?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just now. Five minutes ago.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: A 5-month-old baby.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The baby was taken.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snatched.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Courtland called 911.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it you`d like to report, Ariel.

ARIEL COURLAND, MOTHER OF KATE: The father of my child took our daughter, and I don`t know where he`s at with her. I was supposed to take her for a DNA test. He does not want me to bring Kate there. He knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Phillips said that Kate is alive and police believe he knows where baby Kate is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wouldn`t tell them where she was.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He wouldn`t tell him where she was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Staying mum.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s smart enough not to incriminate himself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It seems like he`s guilty. Baby Kate`s clothes, inside out, rumpled up in his pocket.

COURTLAND: I want her back. I want to know why he took her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long ago did he take off?

COURTLAND: Just now. I`ve been trying to call his cell phone, he`s not answering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: 911, where is your emergency?

COURTLAND: Birch lake apartments in Ludington.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok. Is there an apartment number?

COURTLAND: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that where you`re calling from?

COURTLAND: No. I`m at a friend`s house -

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So, you are going to be with her probably. Who am I speaking to?

COURTLAND: Ariel Courtland?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, Ariel. And your calling from?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is it you`d like to report, Ariel?

COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter. And I don`t know where he`s at with her. She`s my daughter. He has no legal rights over her. I was supposed to take her for a DNA test at 1:00 for him, for child support. And he came over I thought he was going to give us a ride there. So we got in the car, and then I forgot something in my house so I ran back upstairs to get my keys and I came back down they`re gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. All right, so he was supposed to transfer, transport you to a DNA, you sure he didn`t go there? Did you call the courthouse?

COURTLAND: He, yes, he already, no, he already went there. His appointment was an hour before mine. He had already took the test. He just does not want me to bring Kate there because he knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So, he`s supposed to give you a right to the DNA test at the courthouse, right?

COURTLAND: No, it`s at the hospital.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the hospital?

COURTLAND: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And how long ago did he take off?

COURTLAND: Just now. About five minutes ago. I tried to call his cell phone, he`s not answering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What kind of vehicle was he in?

COURTLAND: He`s driving a silver intrigue.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Intrigue. Do you happen to know the plate?

COURTLAND: No, I`m sorry.

COURTLAND: OK, that`s alright. That`s alright. OK, Ariel, we`ll send somebody over so can file a report, OK?

COURTLAND: OK, thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Bye-bye.

COURTLAND: I put them on her that morning.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were these the clothes that you last saw her in?

COURTLAND: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators told the court, those were the clothes the sheriff`s deputy discovered in Sean Phillips` pocket the day baby Kate went missing. They said the outfit was found when a sheriff`s deputy began to pat Phillips down before taking him to Ludington for questioning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Tonight, where is 5-month-old baby Kate? And in a scenario that is chilling to mothers everywhere, out to you Matt Zarrell. Isn`t it true that Sean Phillips actually tried to implicate the mother?

MATT ZARELL, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE SHOW: Yes, Nancy, you`re right. What happened was, cops tried to locate Phillips they were actually able to contact him on his cell phone. When they spoke to him, they asked him, where is baby Kate?

And Phillips allegedly told them, the last time I saw baby Kate, she was with the mom, Ariel Courtland. When police got off the phone they turned to Ariel Courtland, they told her this, and she proceeded to ran out of her apartment and threw up. She was so upset.

GRACE: Now, that can be construed a lot of different ways and before the defense attorneys pipe in it`s evidence of guilt, she passed a polygraph. Her cell phone was still in the father`s car. If she was guilty in part of this, why would she let him drive off with all of her stuff, never to be recovered again?

We are taking your calls, out to Linda in Mississippi. Hi Linda, what`s your question?

LINDA, CALLER, MISSISSIPPI: Hi, Nancy, I have a comment and a question. First comment is I admire you being the voice of the people that can`t be.

GRACE: Thank you so much.

LINDA: You are just wonderful.

GRACE: You`d be surprised at how many people don`t feel that way. But thank you, go ahead.

LINDA: I was wondering if the daddy had a girlfriend or family somewhere that might have wanted the baby, and he gave her to them.

GRACE: Good question. What do we know? Heather Lynn Peters. Is there another girlfriend or anyone of that nature stashed away that we don`t know about?

PETERS: Well, certainly that didn`t come out nearly a four hour preliminary examination of Mr. Phillips. I think we left with more questions than we had answers. The problem is we have no idea where this baby is. We have no evidence that she was given away. There`s no evidence that she is deceased. It`s baffling.

GRACE: To Kathy in Michigan, Hi dear. What`s your question?

KATHY, CALLER, MICHIGAN: I was wondering if there had been any explanation of the voice mail the mother left for the father the night before the disappearance. Ariel asked Sean to sleep with Kate that night because if he would take Kate that night because it would be his last chance?

GRACE: Right, that was to my understanding, and we need Zarell on this, he had been trying to talking her into adopting the baby, and she was considering putting the baby up for adoption. And it`s my understanding that she was saying look, ok fine take the baby. After tonight it won`t happen. What is your understanding of that voice mail that was played in court?

ZARELL: Yes. What happen was that the defense approached Ariel Courtland while she was on the stand and asked her why did you leave this message? Because she allegedly left a message where she said, you can take Kate tonight because after tomorrow it`s going to be too late because they planned on giving Kate up for adoption.

But ultimately what happened is Ariel Courtland said in court, that ultimately she could not give the baby up for adoption. It`s the last way, she did not want to go through with it, and she changed her mind and that`s what`s caused all this to happen.

GRACE: To Kathy in Michigan, what`s your question dear? Oh, that was Kathy in Michigan. OK, set-up my next caller.

Very quickly to Marc Klaas. Marc, in the end what can we help do to find baby Kate tonight?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Sure, what we can do, if anybody is aware of anybody who has a baby that didn`t have a baby, that is about a four or five-month-old child, a little girl, particularly in that region up in Michigan, then we may have a handle on where she is.

I really don`t expect that will happen. I think that the other scenario that needs to play out, is we have to specify his time line and then work from that area, from that point out and do just massive ground searches until, unfortunately, the remains or what`s left of the remains of baby Kate are discovered.

GRACE: You know what Marc, let me just believe in a miracle, OK? Until I don`t have, I can`t any more?

KLAAS: It would be a miracle.

GRACE: Very quickly, straight out to Martin Savidge, CNN correspondent joining us at Nanki point at Aruba. I understand that Giordano`s digicam that we talked about last night, in fact, did reveal incriminating evidence, exclusive photos of Gardner they have taken just before her disappearance.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, that`s exactly right, Nancy. In fact, that`s what authorities classify those photographs as, explicit, that`s the only characterization they will make. Other new sources say they are bordering on pornographic, almost to the extreme. But authorities won`t comment on how many there are, they don`t know how the photographs were taken, but they do believe that you can see Gary Giordano at least in some way in those photographs, but again, they won`t be going beyond the word explicit.

GRACE: Here`s a big hint to the Aruba police. The hotel room.

To Tasha Robinson, senior editor with "People" magazine. The special story that "People" magazine has on this, is hitting the newsstands tomorrow.

Tasha, what can you tell us?

NATASHA ROBINSON, SENIOR EDITOR, PEOPLE MAGAZINE: Well, what I can tell you is that police are trying to figure out the relationship between Giordano and Robyn. And they`re trying to put these pieces together.

They`re trying to find out how close they are. Where does this photo play in this relationship? So, there`s still a mystery but police are trying their best to put all this together to find out what really happened in Aruba.

GRACE: Well, isn`t it true that your magazine "People" interviewed a couple that was also vacationing in Aruba and they described Robyn as very outgoing and confident and happy. Not so much for Giordano.

ROBINSON: Yes. They described them as not really looking like a couple but acting like a couple. She was excited. She wanted to know where to go in Aruba, and he just sat aside and didn`t say one word. So they left saying, huh, they don`t seem like they`re enjoying each other. So, you know that helped us to kind a put the pieces together. We`re trying to start from the beginning. What happened, follow their foot prints. Several people saw them and nobody really thought of them as a couple.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD FORRESTER, ROBYN GARDNER`S BOYFRIEND: Bring her home.

SADVIDGE: He would have been over on baby beach.

GRACE: When you don`t know a horse, look at his track record.

FORRESTER: Find her. Let`s get her home.

SAVIDGE: That`s probably a hundred yards away.

GRACE: They`ve been looking down phosphate mines and down wells for Gardner`s body.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Very quickly to Rupa Mikkilineni.

Rupa, when police questioned him, we got the statement tonight right before air. And he says when she quote, "drifted off to sea", he was quote, "busy trying to save his own life". He was at baby beach. They don`t even have waves.

RUPA MIKKILINENI, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE SHOW: That`s right. He claims that the currents were so strong, he got nervous. He signaled for her to swim back to shore and he didn`t look again behind him. And he was in such a panic that he didn`t do anything until he hit a rock with his hand and got to shore.

Now, this is weird, Nancy because also the 911 call, prosecutors have made it clear that he was very calm during this 911 call. How can he be panicked out in the ocean and then come on to the beach and call 911 in a calm unemotional voice?

GRACE: And according to some sources, bone dry.

Everybody, let`s stop and remember army First Sergeant Ricky Mcginnis, 42, Hamilton Ohio, killed Iraq, 23 years of service. Awarded bronze star, purple hard, a raptorial service remembered as a brave family man whose daughters meant everything to him.

Loved coaching them in softball, basketball, and soccer. Leaves behind sisters Rhonda and Julie, brother Carl, widow Christine, daughters Julia, Laura, Melissa, Nina.

Ricky Mcginnis, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you.

And a special happy birthday to Georgia friend, Defense Lawyer Peter Odom. Happy birthday.

And a special good night from friends Alice, this is Jason ocean`s wife. Now, how did he get her? Whatever. Alice, Jake, and Rachel his children. Aren`t they beautiful? And also with us Anita and Zach.

Everyone, also with me - wait. Where are my very special guests? Come here, baby. Hurry, come to mommy. And where`s John David?

Here on the set tonight, my babies. Where is John David? Lucy and John David and his duck want to say good night. Show them your duck.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern. Until then, good night, friend.

END