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NANCY GRACE

Is Baby Kate Still Alive?

Aired July 29, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DIANE DIMOND, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Live to Michigan, 5-month-old baby Kate kidnapped, snatched in front of her mother, missing now without a trace. The alleged kidnapper, none other than the baby`s likely father, Sean Phillips. Phillips arrested just a few hours later at his parents` home, but there was no sign of baby Kate. Reports soon emerged that Phillips tried to take the -- tried to talk the mother -- the baby`s mother into giving up the baby for adoption just hours before the kidnapping.

Phillips, who was set to be deployed to Afghanistan with the National Guard next month, was said to be fighting a paternity test scheduled to be taken the very same hour of the kidnapping. Why? Well, reportedly because he was afraid to tell his parents he might be baby Kate`s father. Is that why he ran off with the child?

From behind bars, cops say Phillips refuses to talk, but according to published reports, he has indicated to Kate`s mother that the 5-month-old baby is still alive. Tonight, where is baby Kate?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: A 5-month-old baby.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kate Phillips.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a devastating case.

GRACE: Kidnapped.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still missing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She could be anywhere.

ARIEL COURTLAND, MOTHER: We got in the car, and I forgot something. I ran back upstairs to get my keys.

GRACE: Snatched right in front of Mommy!

COURTLAND: And I came back down, and they`re gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have no idea where this baby is.

GRACE: In danger tonight, where is baby Kate?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The suspect, Sean Michael Phillips.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s booked on kidnapping charges, but staying mum when it comes to Catherine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is not cooperating.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He does not want that baby found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You name it, they`ve searched it, wooded areas, swampy areas.

GRACE: Desperation level rises and rises and rises.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No evidence that would lead them to baby Kate`s whereabouts.

GRACE: Missing without a trace tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where is Catherine?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Also tonight, to Georgia. A 15-year-old boy goes out for a day of hunting with his stepdad, but only one comes back alive. They allegedly become lost, and instead of keeping the boy with him, Brian Gale claims that he left the 15-year-old clinging to a tree while he went for help. The boy, Daniel Head (ph), is later found dead, face down in almost two feet of water. Tonight, with the stepdad facing felony murder charges and more, the boy`s mother fears that he could get off with just probation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What started as a father-son hunting trip turned into a nightmare.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn`t help him. He was dying.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were lost, and hyperthermia was setting in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I carried him as far as I could possibly carry him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gale says he left Daniel clinging to a tree so he could go get help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wasn`t like I -- we went out there and I just said, The hell with you, Daniel, and left him. It wasn`t nothing like that at all. (INAUDIBLE) watch him die and then die right after him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When he returned several hours later, Daniel had drowned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gale says his life is miserable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An indictment for murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can call that murder. (INAUDIBLE) anything to hurt him on purpose, anyway.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Constantly questioning the decision he made in the swamp.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought was right at the time was to go get help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Gale is convicted of felony murder, he would face an automatic life sentence. Still, he says he will not plead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murder? There`s no murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Losing the boy he loved like a son.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he told me, he said, Brian, I`m glad you`re my dad. And that just sticks with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Good evening, everyone, and welcome. I`m Diane Dimond, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. We are taking your calls live. First we go live to Michigan, where 5-month-old infant Catherine Phillips, baby Kate, was allegedly abducted just outside her own mother`s home.

For the very latest on this case, let`s go out to Joe Gomez, reporter with KTRH Newsradio. Joe, what is the latest on this abduction of this baby Kate tonight? We know there were lots of tips. But no ground search? It seems like it`s stalled.

JOE GOMEZ, KTRH NEWSRADIO: Diane, it`s a tragic case, this beautiful 5-month-old baby girl allegedly kidnapped by the same man who many believe to be her biological father! She`s been missing nearly 30 days now, yet he refuses -- refuses! -- to tell police what he did with her!

Sean Phillips, just hours after he tried to convince baby Kate`s mother to put her up for adoption because he didn`t want anybody to know the baby was his, apparently took off with the baby in the back seat of the car as soon as Mommy got out of it. She tried to call the cops, but it was too late! Baby Kate was gone! Hours later, he shows up at his parents` house, but there`s no baby to be found. The come in, they arrest him, take him to jail, and there he sits tonight, Diane, refusing to tell what happened!

DIMOND: You know, Joe Gomez, I`m sorry, am I the only one? This is eerily reminiscent -- a missing child, a big search, a parent that refuses to tell the police anything. Is this guy like the male equivalent of Casey Anthony?

GOMEZ: It`s a frightening comparison, you`re right. The irony is interesting. But I mean, this is what -- this is what`s happening! This guy is refusing to tell police what`s going on! Diane, it`s been 30 days! This is a 5-month-old baby girl! How long can a 5-month-old baby girl last all alone?

DIMOND: I know. It just breaks your heart. Let`s bring in Pat Martin. He is a local reporter there with WMOM radio. Hi, Pat. How are you? Tell us about what you know about what the police are doing. It seems like it`s at a standstill now.

PAT MARTIN (ph), WMOM RADIO (via telephone): It is at a standstill. This is an urgent situation here in Ludington, Michigan. It`s got the whole community confused. It`s just a totally bizarre case from beginning to end. Much of the information that`s been reported on a national basis conflicts with some of the information that`s been reported here locally.

DIMOND: Really? Really? Like what? And I`m assuming you`re meaning the mother`s rendition of this story, how she was in the car with the baby daddy, the supposed baby daddy, and the child. She went back to the apartment to get a stroller, came back to the curbside and they were gone. Is that not the way you`re hearing it?

MARTIN: Well, there`s a number of holes in how that story is. For example, I think you`ll be playing the 911 call. According to the court records that we saw, she had filed a paternity suit against Sean.

DIMOND: Right.

MARTIN: However, what we saw in court is, he asked for the DNA test. It`s right in the court documents. And very few people have actually gone over to the Mason County court to check that. And that is in complete dispute with the 911 call that she made, Nancy.

DIMOND: Right. This is Diane. Nancy`s on vacation today.

MARTIN: Diane. I`m sorry.

(LAUGHTER)

DIMOND: That`s OK, Pat. We get confused all the time.

Let`s bring in Matt Zarrell. He is our crack producer here at the NANCY GRACE show. Matt, let`s explore that a little bit. Talk to me about the day that this child went missing, a month ago today, June 29. What is going on in Sean Phillips`s head? He`s sitting in the car, waiting for Mommy to come back, and he takes off. But what`s going on in his life?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, yes, let me start with, Diane, with taking you through what happened that day because what happened was, is that the mother believed that Sean Phillips was taking her and baby Kate to the DNA facility to get a test done.

DIMOND: Right.

ZARRELL: That`s not where he takes her. He takes her instead to the Department of Human Services, where he tries to convince baby Kate`s mother to give baby Kate up for adoption.

DIMOND: But now, wait a minute, Matt. Just me just interject, that`s what the mother, Ariel Courtland, says. That`s her rendition.

ZARRELL: Yes. Correct.

DIMOND: OK. Go ahead.

ZARRELL: She says that they argue, whether it`s in the parking lot or going into the DHS office. She gets him to back off the attempt. They then go back to her home. And as they`re at the home, they are arguing again, allegedly about the paternity.

She claims to have gotten frustrated, says, The DNA facility is not far away, I`m going to take the baby myself without you. So she goes upstairs. She goes to get the stroller. When she comes back out, Phillips and the baby are gone.

DIMOND: OK. Now, like Pat Martin says, this is the mother`s rendition of the story. We know that he had already taken a DNA test to see if this child was his. And let`s remember, folks, this couple already had another child, an almost 4-year-old daughter. They had a DNA test set for the baby. That`s where they were headed when he takes off with the child.

Let`s bring in Marc Klaas. He`s a familiar face to this program and many more, a fabulous child`s advocate and the president and founder, of course, of Klaaskids.org. Marc, nice to see you again.

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Hi, Diane.

DIMOND: You know, these are the cases that just break your heart. These people have squabbled for the longest time over their first child. They apparently have had a second child. And now one has run off with that baby. What can you do when one parent won`t talk to the other?

KLAAS: Well, this is a situation where I don`t think anybody is suggesting that Phillips was not the last person to see the child.

DIMOND: Right.

KLAAS: Now, I`d like to refer back to another case that happened earlier this week in the Houston area. A mother wanted by the police named Mika Alford (ph) was tracked down at a strip club on felony warrants, and the police realized hat she had had a baby only five days later. She was uncooperative with the police as to the whereabouts of the baby. They put the information on the media, and the person that had the baby realized that this was something bigger than them. They notified the police and they found the baby.

Now, people with good intentions in a situation like that are going to recover the baby or return the baby to the authorities. People with bad intentions won`t. Therefore, it`s incumbent upon the parents to do so.

None of that has happened in this case, which indicates to me pretty clearly that baby Kate probably is no longer with us...

DIMOND: Oh, I...

KLAAS: ... and that`s why he`s keeping quiet.

DIMOND: Yes. I just -- I so hope you`re wrong, but I fear the same thing, Marc.

KLAAS: I do, too.

DIMOND: You know, she went to visit the baby daddy, the suspected baby daddy, in prison. And he didn`t come out and say anything, but allegedly, according to Ariel Courtland, she said, Is the baby still alive? And he made some sort of head nod, like, Yes. Do you believe that, Marc?

KLAAS: Well, no, I don`t believe it. I don`t believe it simply because he`s clammed up, and nobody has any indication where this child might be. Like I said, if somebody has this baby, that baby is the hottest baby on the planet right now. And it`s not a child that somebody wants to be caught with and not notifying the authorities. So it`s baby Gabriel all over again. It`s the Caylee Anthony case all over again. And unfortunately, these cases never seem to end well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Weathered and faded, the "missing" signs for the little Ludington girl hang tonight. They`ve been up here for weeks now. Within the past month, FBI agents, police officers and volunteers searched a number of different areas looking for Catherine Phillips. All came up empty-handed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: What is it you`d like to report, Ariel?

COURTLAND: The father of my child took our daughter, and I don`t know where he`s at with her. She`s my daughter. He has no legal rights over her. I was supposed to take her for a DNA test at 1:00 o`clock and -- for him, for child support. And he came over and I thought he was going to give us a ride there. So we got in the car. And I forgot something in my house, so I ran back upstairs to get my keys. And I came back down, and they`re gone.

911 OPERATOR: OK. All right. And so he was supposed to transport you to a DNA? And you`re sure he didn`t go there? Did you call the courthouse?

COURTLAND: Yes, he already -- no, he already went there. His appointment was an hour before mine was. He already took the test. He just does not want me to bring Kate there because he knows that Kate is his, and he doesn`t want to pay child support for her.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

DIMOND: I`m not sure it`s as simple as all that. Welcome back, everybody. I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight. OK, so there`s Ariel Courtland. She is missing her baby. The baby`s only 5 months -- or 4 months old, at that point. She sounds kind of blase to me.

Now, look, we`ve already talked about Sean Phillips, the suspected father of this little baby, taking her off, being in the car alone with her and then taking off. There are some problems with him.

But I submit to you that there might be some problems with this young lady, too, Ariel Courtland. She does have some sort of a record with the police, something with an auto that she took that she shouldn`t have taken, an assault charge, something about alcohol to minors.

And I`m holding in my hand here an extensive sheet of custody complaints that these two had. Now, when I hear that 911 call, she doesn`t seem to be that upset. I would be more upset.

Dr. Janet Taylor is a psychiatrist. She`s often on the show. Thanks for being with us tonight, Janet. What did you make of that 911 call?

JANET TAYLOR, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, I mean, I wouldn`t read too much into that 911 call, given the fact they have a daughter together. It sounds like she feels like maybe he drove around the corner, and not in her wildest dreams did she imagine that she would not see her child again.

DIMOND: Well, that could be, but it is a tiny infant. I don`t know if she was breast feeding or what, but she has to know in her head, We were on the way to get a DNA test and he`s now taken off.

TAYLOR: I mean, again, if she thought she was in danger, it would be hard to say that she would allow herself and the baby to get into the car with him.

DIMOND: Right.

TAYLOR: Clearly, she had no expectation about the tragedy of not having her daughter for a month now. I`m sure hindsight is 20/20. She never would have done that before.

DIMOND: Right. And you know, Sheryl, I`ll tell you, in something I read, she said, We were sitting in the car arguing. He wasn`t yelling. He`s not the type to yell. So she probably, you`re right, didn`t even think about it.

Let`s bring in Sheryl McCollum. She is a cold case crime analyst and author of the book "Cold Case: Pathways to Justice." Sheryl, what do you do -- I mean, this case is only a month old, but it`s kind of a cold case. The police apparently have nothing to go on.

SHERYL MCCOLLUM, CRIME ANALYST: Oh, they`ve got plenty to go on, Diane.

DIMOND: What?

MCCOLLUM: He`s the last person with her. He did everything he could to prove he was not the father of that baby, to get rid of any evidence that he`s the father of that baby. It would not hurt him to tell where she is, if she`s safe. Tell us where she`s at.

DIMOND: Well, but Sheryl, maybe -- the thing is this. In all these custody disputes that I`m looking at here between the two, maybe he`s decided, This woman isn`t fit to raise my baby. I`m going to kidnap her and take her to a relative.

MCCOLLUM: He`s sitting in jail, and quite possibly, they`re going to charge him with murder, whether they find the body or not. He`s hurting himself by not telling the truth.

And Diane, there was only three hours from the time he last drove off with her and was arrested at his parents`. That is very little time to connect with whoever this person is that supposedly has the baby, change her clothes. Where`s the carseat? Still in his car.

DIMOND: Right.

MCCOLLUM: Where`s the diaper bag? Still in his car.

DIMOND: And they did find...

MCCOLLUM: He did not give that baby to anyone.

DIMOND: And they did find the baby`s clothes, but the police won`t tell us exactly where. Sheryl, you know, I`m one of those armchair detectives. They never found Ariel`s phone that she left in that car, her cell phone. But Sean had a cell phone. Couldn`t they have tracked that cell phone?

MCCOLLUM: Of course.

DIMOND: Don`t you think that`s something they would have already done?

MCCOLLUM: They`re looking at the pings on that phone, and they`re also looking if her phone is recovered where (ph) it is. And I can tell you that baby is within a mile of where they found her clothes.

DIMOND: Oh, that`s chilling. All right, stay with us. We`ll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kate`s mother runs inside her apartment to get the stroller. When she comes back out, Kate and Phillips were gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was here and she was taken.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s hired a lawyer and is exercising his right not to incriminate himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say 21-year-old Sean Phillips drove away with 4-month-old Kate Phillips after arguing with her mother, Ariel Courtland.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) want to pay child support for her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It doesn`t seem like we`re any closer to finding her. We still don`t know where she`s at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Although it`s difficult to imagine what safe place she could be, the police and the family aren`t giving up hope they will find Kate alive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: Oh, there is always hope. Hi, everyone. I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace.

Let`s go to the phones. Waiting patiently is Linda in Oklahoma. Hi, Linda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

DIMOND: What`s your question, Linda?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would like to know what is wrong with all these crazy people killing their kids and stuff, or doing things to them? And why can`t they practice birth control, both of them? And these young girls need to figure out they need to go to college and that they need a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

(LAUGHTER)

DIMOND: Thanks for calling, Linda in Oklahoma. I don`t know that there`s any answer to your question, but you know, it`s cases like this and covering cases like this and cases like Casey Anthony that I hope are a teaching moment.

Let`s go to Mary in New Mexico. Hi, Mary. Oh, Mary`s gone. I`m sorry. Amy in New York. Hi, Amy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Diane. How are you?

DIMOND: I`m great. What`s your question? We just have a little time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I want to know why in God`s name we, as a society, cannot do something to change the way we interrogate and try to find these children. Waterboarding -- why don`t we do it?

DIMOND: Oh!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These infants need -- these infants need or these children need somebody to stand up and take notice.

DIMOND: Yes. I do agree with you. And I wish that -- as a mother of a daughter myself, I mean, I wish I could go in and take Sean Phillips and shake him and make him tell me where that baby is, for good or for ill.

When we come back, we`re going to talk about the legal ramifications for this with our attorney panel. Marc Klaas, is there any hope to try to get someone who doesn`t want to talk to say where a child is?

KLAAS: I don`t know, really, the answer to that. I would hope that this man has a conscience and that this man understands that not only the mother and the family, but really, the entire community and many people throughout the nation are invested in baby Kate now and that he will do the right things and lead us all to her.

DIMOND: But you know what, Marc? Again, we just covered the Casey Anthony case, and she kept mum and she was acquitted. I worry about that being a lesson to others out there.

KLAAS: Well, I think that there`s something to that. If you lie enough or you keep your mouth shut enough and you do a good enough job of hiding the body, I think that you can get away with murder in America.

DIMOND: Oh! That`s a shame. When we come back, our legal panel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Baby Kate. Look at her!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police continue to search the area while Kate`s mother waits at home, hoping her baby can be found safely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she`s still alive, somebody has to be taking care of her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: OK. So he was supposed to give you a ride to the DNA test at the courthouse, right?

COURTLAND: No, it`s at the hospital.

911 OPERATOR: At the hospital?

COURTLAND: Yes.

911 OPERATOR: OK. And how long ago did he take off?

COURTLAND: Just now, five minutes ago. I`ve been trying to call his cell phone. He`s not answering.

911 OPERATOR: OK. What kind of vehicle was he in?

COURTLAND: He`s driving a silver Intrigue.

911 OPERATOR: OK. Intrigue. Do you happen to know the plate or...

COURTLAND: No, I`m sorry.

911 OPERATOR: OK. That`s all right. That`s all right. OK, Ariel, we`ll send somebody over...

(END AUDIO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: It`s bigger than child support.

The alleged baby`s father is the suspect, Shaun Michael Phillips. It was more important seemingly to get rid of the baby.

Reports that he doesn`t want to tell his parents that he`s the father of this baby.

Help us find baby Kate, kidnapped.

How long ago did he take off?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just now, five minutes ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Arguing over the paternity of the baby.

The baby was taken, snatched.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE(via telephone): I was trying to call his cell phone, he`s not answering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: The desperate search tonight.

They`re asking for the public`s help.

Extremely worried about the safety of this child.

Baby kate, look at her. He is not cooperating, her life depends on someone coming forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE DIMOND, HOST: That is for sure. I`m Diane Dimond sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight.

You know we have talked about the mother in this case, we have talked about the suspected father, Shaun Phillips who is in prison, charged with kidnapping.

Dr. Dorothy Wiggins is an MD. She is a pediatrician. I think we cannot talk about this case without talking about this child, now five months old.

What happens to a little child suddenly separated from the two adults in their family that they`re so familiar with?

DOROTHY WIGGINS, PEDIATRICIAN: Well, you know while we might start This child could be having separation anxiety, but more importantly with her family members at such as young age, but more importantly we have already alluded to the fact that we have feeding issues and just general care of the baby.

If the baby was being breast fed, now are there in the care of someone who knows how to properly prepare formula or at five months, might start introducing solid foods, they are going to feed the baby foods that may be choking hazards.

So are they going to get frustrated if they`re not accustomed in taking care of a young infant who may not sleep through the night.

There are so many factors that you need to be thinking of for a 5- month-old.

DIMOND: And as (Mark Class) mentioned perhaps something drastically has happened to this child. But you have to keep hope that maybe she is alive and someone is taking care of her properly.

Let`s bring in the attorneys, Meg Strickler and Midwin Charles are both defense attorneys.

You know you too, I`m laughing a little bit but I don`t mean to but Amy in New York asked the question, why can`t we, when there is an adult with information about a little baby, water board them to get this information?

We can`t do that, but is there something we can do, Midwin?

MIDWIN CHARLES, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know it`s hard to say. I mean we do have an eighth amendment in the constitution that protects people against cruel and unusual punishment and that would go against the kind of interrogations that she`s suggesting.

It`s unfortunate that we can`t just reach out and shake this guy and say tell us where she is. I really don`t know what else there is to do when you have a situation like this.

And you`re right Diane.

DIMOND: I`d like to pinch him in the nose, that`s what I`d like to do. CAHRLES: And you`re right, this is reminisces of the Casey Anthony story in the sense where the parent was the last person to see the child alive and is not telling anyone what happened to that child.

DIMOND: You know Meg, it`s interesting. I think it was Matt, our producer who turned me on to this idea.

This young man is being charged with kidnapping, which in the state of Michigan carries life without parole.

Well, guess what? So does murder, so if you`re his attorney, what`s your advice to him if he suddenly says to you, "you know what happened? It was bad t baby`s dead".

MEG STRICKLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, do you want him to pull a Casey Anthony here and start talking about Zanny the nanny and mythical jobs here?

I mean, there really is nothing more that he can do if he has some culpability here, keeping his mouth shot is exactly what I would tell my client right now.

Keep it quite. You`re in jail basically no bond, charged with kidnapping, would it behoove him to speak? No.

Keep him self quiet. I`m sorry but that`s how he needs to do here and that is what he is doing.

DIMOND: And there`s no death penalty in Michigan. So he would be charged with the same thing, kidnapping which he might be able to beat like Casey Anthony did. Or murder. It`s the same charge, life without parole.

STRICKLER: Correct. That`s absolutely right. So he has nothing to gain by saying anything, if he had something to do with it. If he didn`t, then he should be talking like crazy and he would be out of jail. The fact that he`s in there and not saying anything leads me to believe that he had something to do with this poor little girl`s demise, I would think she`s no longer with us

DIMOND: Again, we have to keep hope.

Pat Martin is a local reporter there in Michigan with WMOM radio.

Pat, is Shaun Phillips the only suspect out there? Are they looking at someone he might have handed this child off to for safekeeping or? What do you know about that?

PAT MARTIN, REPORTER, WMOM RADIO: Well, I`m told by law enforcement that he is the only suspect and I`m also told that he`s the only person that can give information and this is from a highly informed source, Diane.

This is urgent, it`s desperate, he`s in the mason county jail, we`re told that they`re giving him only bread and water and he`s sleeping on a metal bed. He`s not in comfortable conditions right now. They`re trying to break him down. It`s desperate.

DIMOND: Wow, I know you have some good police sources there, bread and water for Shaun Phillips? Can that be real?

Maybe that will make him talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long ago did he take off?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CALLER: Just now, five minutes ago, I was just trying to call his cell phone and he`s not answering.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: His parents only knew that the baby existed, never actually met the baby.

Now he`s managed to hide the baby from his parents all this time?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: 15-year-old Georgia teen Daniel hedge goes on a hunting trip with his stepdad but ends up dead in a swamp.

BRIAN GALE, DANIEL`S STEPDAD: Murder? This is not murder.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: All he says he can think about is losing the boy he loved like a son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: Autopsy showed Daniel drowned and suffered hypothermia.

GALE: I carried him as far as I could possibly carry him. And I did what I possibly thought was right at the time was to go get help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: But Daniel`s stepdad Brian Gale is now facing multiple charges of felony murder.

GALE: I couldn`t hold a thing. He was dying. And I was only sitting - I watched him dying. UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Gale says he left Daniel clinging to a tree so he could go get help.

GALE: To admit that I had anything to hurt him on purpose in any way, yes, I would rather go to the gas chamber.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DIMOND: I am Diane Dimond sitting in for Nancy Grace tonight.

A 15-year-old boy goes out for a day of hunting with his stepdad but only one comes back alive.

Now, 40-year-old Brian Gale is charged with murder and voluntary man slaughter, cruelty to children, contributing to the deportation of a minor, several counts.

Gale says it was all a huge mistake, that he loved the boy like a son and that after getting lost in the woods for hours, he left the 15-year-old behind to go and get help.

When he came back, teenager Daniel Head was dead of hyperthermia and drowning.

Tonight, national television exclusive with Daniel, both Daniel`s parents and his stepfather and his mother.

But first, let`s bring in Alexis Weed. She`s our producer here at the "Nancy Grace Show". She`s been coordinating the story.

Alexis, how cold was it that night in questioned and how are police saying that this young man drowned?

ALEXIS WEED, PRODUCER, NANCY GRACE SHOW: They`re saying he drowned and he also had hypothermia that evening temperature went in as low as 30 degrees.

DIMOND: Oh, my goodness. Well, you know could it be that this stepfather`s story is correct?

Or was there something on the body to show them, was there some injury on the body of some struggle or a knife wound or something?

WEED: As far as we know, just the hypothermia which led them to the drowning, no indication another this point, although with do not have a copy of the autopsy that there was any bruising or any sign of injury to Daniel`s body.

DIMOND: Interesting stuff, we`re very pleased tonight to have Susan Gale, Daniel Dale`s mother with us for this national television exclusive.

Susan Thank you so much for being with us at this very sad time. What is it that you think happened out there in the woods?

SUSAN GALE, DANIEL DALE`S MOTHER: Hi, Diane. Thank you for inviting me.

DIMOND: Sure.

SUSAN GALE: I don`t know what happened out there, I wasn`t there. I only know what I know from the minute that Daniel and Brian left at 1o`clock that Sunday afternoon through to the dreadful news that they had found Daniel but he hadn`t made it at around 4:30 that Monday afternoon.

All I know is what Brian has told me happened. It`s not up to me to find out the truth, that`s why we have the justice system. But I know that worst-case scenario is that Brian murdered Daniel, best-case scenario is that my son was left alone in the dark, freezing cold, petrified, with no comfort. That`s the best-case scenario.

DIMOND: Susan, This is a man that you have been married to for ten years, you`re still married although not living together currently.

What reason might your husband have for killing your son?

SUSAN GALE: I cannot think of one reason why Brian would hurt a hair on his head, not one. They had a good relationship, which makes this even harder.

I have never been able to understand why Brian would walk away from Daniel for any reason at all. As I say, it`s not my job to give the answers. I don`t know why.

DIMOND: Maybe Brian is telling the truth, maybe they got exhausted slogging through the swamp while they were hunting, they had their waders on, their long clothing on and your son just couldn`t go any further and Brian went for help. Could that be a possibility?

SUSAN GALE: Again, I`m not there, I know my son more than I knew Brian.

Daniel`s not a quitter. Daniel doesn`t give up. Daniel and I had the most wonderful relationship and there is no way that he`s just going to -- he`s not going to stand there and wait, he`s going to go, he`s going to try and get out of that place. He didn`t like to hunt. He didn`t like that.

DIMAND: Not a quitter. Now, Susan, I hope you`re OK with this, we have Brian Gale on the telephone with us now.

Brian, welcome to the broadcast, I thank you for being here. Tell us what happened that night? You are charged with six very serious felonies, including murder, manslaughter, et cetera, what happened?

BRIAN GALE: Thank you, ma`am. Well, we scouted the wild turkey. That was the whole purpose of the trip. We went the day before and we put out some corn for hogs and turkey on some private property that I manage.

DIMOND: Right.

BRIAN GALE: And shot the high powered rifles at targets at a range and we had a blast. And the next day, I asked him did he want to go and he said yes, and so we went back out. I knew there wouldn`t be any hogs on the corn, so I said we`ll do some turkey season is two weeks off, we`ll do a little bit of scouting down on the state property.

DIMOND: Now, Brian, you know what I noticed about your stepson, he was about 5`10" or so and weighed 117pounds so he was a tall, thin, lanky kid.

You left him. You left him in the woods all alone and I read you said that was probably the worst decision you ever made in your life?

BRIAN GALE: Yes, yes it was. But at the time we -- ma`am, it had got dark, Daniel couldn`t walk and I was having to carry him. And I made it -- actually the worst decision was -- I had made a fire when I was leaning up against the tree, he kept wanting to rest, I said son, it`s getting dark, we need to head on out.

I think he was just -- something was wrong with him and, you know, I said, well, you know, I started make a fire. I actually had a fire going and that`s before he ever got wet, before we got down into the deep part of the swamp. I made a fire and I started looking around for pompons and cut them. I knew what ridge we were on at that time. And I knew that the quickest way back to the truck was about a half mile through swamp. And this is a proper swamp, this is a very difficult terrain.

DIMOND: Right, I read about it. Very sloggy with your boots on and whatnot.

BRIAN GALE: All along the east coast of the United States, it`s probably the last wilderness area except for the okefenokee.

DIMOND: Now, Brian. I want to be sure to ask you certain questions because we are running out of time.

But let me ask you this, So you leave him at a tree, yet when they find him, he`s face down in the water.

BRIAN GALE: But, ma`am, see, when we started to walk to try to get straight to the truck, it was a straight shot, back to the truck. We had went through some actual swamp and I was having -- Daniel couldn`t -- he kept falling so I started -- I had to drop my steady stick, without a steady stick you can`t walk in the swamp because you`re going to be falling. So I had to carry him, I had to put the light in my mouth, I had the GPS in my left hand and we were under a canopy and it kept losing the signal and I was carrying Daniel, we kept falling and it was cold. And when I hit the water it took everything out of me the first time I hit the water.

DIMOND: What do you think Brian happened to cause him to leave the tree and be found facedown in the water when the rescue workers came? What happened?

BRIAN GALE: We were going for like seven hours at least six to see hours I told to Daniel and we made the supreme physical evidence to try to break out and the GPS, I regret not having a backup compass. I wouldn`t be in this position right now if I had a backup compass.

My first instinct was to stay at the fire when it got dark and not move and I regret that and I always will and I know that was my mistake. But after we made the decision, the commitment to try to get back to the truck and we got turned around, I had no choice but to keep moving with him and we got back too far to the southwest.

DIMOND: Right. Brian, hang on a minute. Brian, hang on just a second.

I hear the pain and the emotion in Brian`s voice Susan.

Could this just have all been a horrible, horrible accident and that he shouldn`t have been charged with murder?

SUSAN GALE: It was a preventable accident.

DIMOND: it`s very emotional to hear his story.

SUSAN GALE: I hear his story. I hear very much.

I hear the pain in his voice, I do, and I sympathize with him. He not only -- he feels like he`s a victim here. I have a life sentence, as does my child, my oldest child Christopher of never seeing my son again. There wasn`t a second of a minute of an hour of a day that I don`t think about how my son died and as I said, at the very best, he died alone, petrified, his worst fear was drowning in the dark.

DIMOND: Oh, Susan, I`m so sorry.

SUSAN GALE: And that`s exactly how he was left.

DIMOND: We are completely out of time but thank you to both of you and we`ll follow this case.

Now let`s take a pause here for tonight`s CNN heroes.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

SAL DIMICELI, COMMUNITY CRUSADER: When they go through suburbia America, or the small towns, everybody`s trying to hold their head up with pride. You`ve been looking for work? I know it`s tough in the recession.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went and sold all my jewelry yesterday.

DIMICELI: These people behind close door. They tell their neighbors they`re fine. They two go in the house and starve.

How much do you owe right now?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gas bill I owe about $800.

DIMICELI: I find the situation is getting worse. They need food. They need help with the utilities.

This is 2011 in America? We should be helping each other.

I`m Sal Dimiceli. My mission is to help my fellow Americans who have fallen on hard times.

In a week I`ll receive 20 to 30 letters.

"Me and my family are in desperate need of help, we don`t want to become homeless."

I want to verify it`s genuine. And I want to get to them as quickly as possible.

I know right now it`s tough for everybody. We`ll be here for you. We`ll help you out.

I tell them how I grew up in poverty and how I understand.

Here`s a hundred dollars for gas.

I help people with necessities of daily life and at the same time I get them together to do a budget so they can continue to survive.

I brought this for you so you can go get your wedding band back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my Lord.

DIMICELI: I want them to feel free of that pain.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m so happy. Thank you.

DIMICELI: I want them to feel the compassion that we`re trying to share with them. To wrap our arms around and say come on, I have a little extra strength I want to share with you. Let`s get you back on your feet.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DIMOND: Susan Gale has lost her son, her 15-year-old son Daniel after he went on a hunting trip with his stepfather.

And now 40-year-old Brian Gale is charged with six felony counts including murder and several other very serious charges. Both Susan and Brian are with us tonight for a national TV exclusive.

Susan and Brian, we still have you both on the phone. We only have a couple of minutes.

But can you two somehow come together and talk about what happened out there? Have you done that? Or after this terrible tragedy did you just not be with each other? Susan?

SUSAN GALE: We were together for several months after this happened. But this just -- there`s so much conflicting stories and different elements.

I have every faith in the justice system, all the agencies. I just know that with due diligence they`re going to give this matter what it`s needed. We have -

DIMOND: I hear what you`re saying. Let`s leave it up to the law.

Brian, what I hear your wife saying is she thinks maybe you did something to Brian.

BRIAN GALE: I didn`t harm Danny. I had no reason to harm him. I loved Danny. I tried my best to save Daniel that night.

SUSAN GALE: I still love Daniel.

BRIAN GALE: But I failed. I failed. And not a day goes by that I don`t think about it. And I`ve second guessed myself. If I had to do it all over again -- the reason I left him was to go get help for him or to try and make a fire. I told him I`d be back in 15 or 20minutes, either make a fire or I`ll come back with help.

DIMOND: This is a family tragedy. I hope you can all get through it somehow, someway.

Thank you so much for being with us, both Susan and Brian Gale.

Now tonight we remember army Sergeant Kampha Sourivong. He`s 20-years old from Iowa City, Iowa, killed in Iraq.

He was highly decorated awarded the purple heart bond star, good conduct army national guard team medal, national defense medal and a rocky campaign medal.

He loved skate boarding and free style rap. He always had a smile on his face. Extremely energetic, outgoing and caring. He leaves behind his parents, (Patty and Phone), sister Elizabeth, and brother Neil.

Kampha Sourivong, a true American hero.

Thanks to our guests for being here tonight.

I`m Diane Dimond, sitting in for Nancy Grace.

See you right back here Sunday night 8:00 eastern sharp. Have a great evening. Great weekend too.

END