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NANCY GRACE
Hints of Accidental Death Defense for Casey Anthony
Aired May 23, 2011 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the case of 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area just 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct- taping, placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple-bagging little Caylee like she`s trash! The murder trial of tot mom Casey Anthony under way.
Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, in a stunning turn based on defense strategy just revealed, a tot mom defense lawyer says Caylee`s death likely just a tragic accident. In 12 hours, will tot mom admit she killed Caylee but argue it was just an accident, that she panicked, afraid to tell police or parents? In just 12 hours, justice for 2-year-old Caylee begins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: You guys expect me to have a thousand answers, and I have nothing!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My impressions was that -- I guess that (INAUDIBLE) she did it. I guess that`s all I can say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) believe the death penalty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God -- he`s the one that makes the final judgment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are currently married.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have children?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four and nine.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Victim of a crime. My car was broken into.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have not watched any news reports about this case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I have not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casey, did you kill Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My ignorance works in my favor right now, but no.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have no children?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In my heart, I`m a pretty fair person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any opinions about the death penalty?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m for it, but under the right circumstances.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My religion, I just don`t like to point my finger at anyone, and which I mean by that, judging people from what someone says.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is exactly what a juror is called upon to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight live, Illinois, Mommy signs her 6-year-old boy out of kindergarten, take him to the zoo and water park. Twenty-four hours later, Mommy is dead in a local motel, 6-year-old Timmy (ph), gone. Tonight, where is Timmy?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) she did.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police frantically searching for missing Aurora, Illinois, boy, Timothy Pitson (ph). According to investigators, Pitson left a note indicating her son was safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The note indicated that he was fine and that he is in the care of unnamed people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where my son is. And it`s just terrifying to me to know that my son is there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy was with his mother and he was OK. We knew that they were in this area.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jim Pitson planned his wife, Amy`s (ph), funeral. Timothy`s carseat and backpack are missing from Amy`s SUV.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We believe he`s alive.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are looking for the boy in Illinois, Wisconsin and Iowa.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: See you at 10:30. Not a problem (INAUDIBLE) the last conversation I had with my son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, a stunning turn. Based on defense strategy just revealed, a tot mom defense lawyer says Caylee`s death likely just a tragic accident. In 12 hours, will tot mom admit she kills Caylee but argue it was just an accident, that she panicked, afraid to tell police or parents? In 12 hours, justice for 2-year-old Caylee begins.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Had you heard anything about this case?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something about Universal. I think it was that she didn`t -- that she didn`t work there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you still work at Universal?
CASEY ANTHONY: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you do at Universal?
CASEY ANTHONY: An event coordinator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you had told us the truth, we wouldn`t be here at Universal Studios, at a place that you`ve been fired since 2006.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then something about a baby-sitter.
CASEY ANTHONY: Zenaida. She`s the last person that I`ve seen my daughter with.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Single currently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you ever been married?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any children?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, ma`am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prior to your coming here, no one engaged you in any conversation?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had a friend of mine say that, you know, she thought the defendant did it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard anything in the news media?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The young lady was accused of killing her child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do believe everyone is innocent until proven guilty.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are live here in Orlando. Just behind me, in less than 12 hours, opening statements begin in a packed courtroom. We will hear as Jose Baez, the lead defense attorney for tot mom Casey Anthony, says a full explanation, three years of questions will be answered in just three minutes. Opening statements set to begin in less than 12 hours.
Straight out to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," who has been in the Clearwater and Orlando courthouses from the very beginning. Jean, in a stunning turn, we now understand that the defense may very well be that Casey will admit she killed Caylee but it was just an accident. What do we know, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": Well, Nancy, here`s what we know. In a last-minute move, the defense actually gave to the prosecution discovery late today photographs of Casey and Caylee. Most likely, the defense will use this as evidence in the trial to show the love between a mother and daughter.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Out to Nancy in Florida. Hi, Nancy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m Nancy from Pennsylvania. Did you mean me?
GRACE: Yes, I do. Hi, Nancy in Pennsylvania. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. I have two quick questions. One, how are George and Cindy Anthony? I wondered that one day when Jose Baez left and the other attorneys were meeting with Casey, if maybe something had happened to one of them. That was my first question.
The second one is, I don`t understand if they`re claiming that it possibly could be an accident. Still, I mean, she showed no emotion expressed. If it was just an accident, at some point, you`d think she`d break down and tell somebody what happened. That just doesn`t make sense to me.
GRACE: So Nancy, your question is, how are George and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Cindy Anthony doing.
GRACE: ... Cindy, and do I think that she`s broken down and told anybody what happened? Are those your questions?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, the second question is if she -- if they`re trying -- the defense is trying to say that it was an accident, then still, at some point, you`d think she would have broken down and said something to somebody. So I just don`t buy that.
GRACE: Well, as to answer your question about George and Cindy, I`ve learned a lot poking around and investigating down here in Orlando. One thing I learned is that several affiliates have reported George and Cindy Anthony took an all-expense-paid cruise on CBS, that they had paid their expenses on that cruise.
Let`s see the photos now, Liz, that I was going to throw to. There on the right -- let`s see the cruise photos. CBS did not pay for their trip. In fact, I`ve learned here in Orlando that they went with a group of their friends. They thought long and hard about it, almost didn`t go at all, and finally joined their friends and some of their church friends on this trip. I think it was a three-day trip.
But how are they doing? I understand that they are steeled for what is to come and that they truly believe that their daughter is innocent. That is what I am being told.
As to your next question, what about it, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: You know, Nancy, let`s look at what we heard in open court during jury selection. The defense asked potential jurors, What would you do? Have you ever heard something and learned something and gone through something so traumatic that you can`t tell anybody? That may give us a road map, Nancy.
GRACE: And let`s decipher that. Out to Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer. What does that mean? Let`s break it down. Those questions asked by the defense in voir dire, or jury selection, are very telling. They`re a road map about where the defense is heading. We know that in the last hours, the defense has filed new discovery. We believe it is a cache of photos of tot mom with her mother, tot mom with Caylee, likely photos taken by tot mom herself to show a loving relationship.
Weigh in, Drew.
DREW PETRIMOULX, WDBO: ... released these photos very close to the start of trial, obviously on the night before. So obviously, we haven`t been able to get a look on what`s contained in them. But it is also very interesting, the questions that the defense was asking during jury selection, whether or not jurors would be susceptible to arguments Casey was abused as a child, whether that she had a terrible upbringing, and stuff like that. They wanted to bounce that off each potential juror to see how they would be able to take that into effect.
Now, some people would say that that`s maybe just for the penalty phase once -- if she`s convicted. But you know, we`re expecting the defense to say something tomorrow as to what happened, and that may be part of that argument.
GRACE: We are taking your calling now. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us there at the Orlando courthouse, Bill Sheaffer, former prosecutor, legal analyst, WFTV. Joe Jackson, defense attorney out of New York. Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer out of Seattle.
First to you, Bill Sheaffer. Bill, we know that the defense just dropped a bomb on the state in the last couple of hours, with reams of new discovery. Of course, there are rules governing that. Discovery is supposed to be filed well in advance of trial, much less a death penalty trial. If these are photos of tot mom and Caylee or Caylee photos taken by tot mom, they`ve had those from the get-go.
Why are they waiting until literally hours before trial starts to hand over discovery?
BILL SHEAFFER, LEGAL ANALYST, WFTV: Nancy, what they`re trying to do is hide what their defense is going to be. But I`m going to tell you something. This "It was an accident" defense, as we say down here, that dog isn`t going to hunt. Why did she wait three years and on the steps of the courthouse to come out with this?
And it doesn`t fit with the facts for this case. It doesn`t count for her actions and activities during that 31-day period of time.
And Nancy, you were down there. We talked. You heard the potential jurors answer questions. One of the burning questions that they had was, Why did she not report it for 31 days? And those were the potential jurors that couldn`t get on the jury because they said they thought she was guilty.
GRACE: Well, specifically, what was her behavior after Caylee`s disappearance in those 31 days? What will the state focus on, and what will the defense have to explain?
We are outside the Orlando courthouse. In less than 12 hours, justice for Caylee begins.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have formed, you know, an opinion of guilt. That`s just from what I`ve read.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It says here that you`re a teacher.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you teach?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I teach physical education and health.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you recall about the evidence that was related to the mother, Miss Anthony?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A smell or something related to the trunk of her car.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: There`s something wrong! I found my daughter`s car today, and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car!
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: There was an overpowering smell. I`ll admit that.
CINDY ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone at the Anthony home looked up chloroform on the Web around the time of Caylee`s disappearance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where`s the transaction? Where`s the credit card receipt?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence that has been returned to us regarding the vehicle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can`t just walk into Walgreen`s and buy chloroform.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We are live outside the Orlando courthouse. Trial starts in less than 12 hours. We will hear opening statements. And in a stunning turn, in a defense strategy just revealed, is tot mom set to claim in opening statements that little Caylee`s death was just a tragic accident and that she was afraid and panicked and did not tell her parents or police about the child`s death?
Unleash the lawyers. Bill Sheaffer, Orlando, Joe Jackson, New York, Anne Bremner, high-profile lawyer, Seattle. Anne Bremner, will it fly?
ANNE BREMNER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, Nancy, I hate to say I told you so, but I`ve been saying all along that they should go with accident and that they will.
GRACE: Yes. Not my question.
BREMNER: I think it`s the only thing that`ll fly. I know, but I just -- I had to get it in there, that I did say it before and was kind of...
GRACE: You did.
BREMNER: ... roundly dismissed.
GRACE: You did.
BREMNER: OK. Thank you. I just had to say that. But the thing is, yes, it can because there`s only two ways to look at this evidence. One is she intentionally did it and she`s going to get death, or another was it`s an accident. And I`m thinking that with this extreme emotional disturbance defense, and in using it is a mitigating factor in the death penalty phase, if it gets to that...
GRACE: Whoa, whoa! Wait! Wait! Wait!
BREMNER: ... that`s the kind of combo...
GRACE: Wait! Wait! Whoa! There is no extreme emotional disturbance. In fact, shrinks that have interviewed her have said roundly, Yes, she`s fine. So we don`t have an emotional disturbance. So don`t throw that into the stew, OK, because that doesn`t even exist.
BREMNER: But I think in the stew, it`s something where they`re basically talking about a potential abuse excuse and things like that...
GRACE: Don`t start up on George Anthony...
BREMNER: ... at least that`s...
GRACE: ... molesting her...
BREMNER: I`m not...
GRACE: ... OK, because I don`t even want to hear that anymore because that is not true!
BREMNER: But Nancy, I`m just telling you what I think they`re going to do, and that`s kind of the framework of disturbance, accident and disturbance, if it gets to death, for mitigation.
GRACE: OK, Joe Jackson...
BREMNER: That`s my prediction at this point.
GRACE: ... what about it? In a stunning turn tonight, we learn in a defense strategy just revealed, tomorrow morning, are we going to hear, Joe, that it was all just a big accident? Oops! Sorry. Mistake. Drastic mistake.
JOE JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think...
GRACE: Didn`t mean to?
JACKSON: I think we will, Nancy. Two things. First of all, as to the discovery, what about that? It resulted in no prejudice to the prosecution. Remember, the prosecution goes first, and then the defense, if they choose to put on a case, can put on a case. And so the fact that they have the photos now results in no prejudice to them, and it`s fine.
As to the accident defense, remember why we`re hearing about this at the last minute. The defense lost every motion to exclude evidence. What do you do as a defense attorney? You find out what the ground rules are. The cadaver dogs are coming in. Everything`s coming in. This is their last shot. They have to do it.
GRACE: OK. To translate that lawyer talk that Joey Jackson just threw on me, Bill Sheaffer, I think what he just said is they listen to what the state`s got. They listen to what evidence is going to come in that the state`s got, hoping some of it would be excluded. Now they know what the state`s got. So are they working a defense around it, since they`re stuck with this forensic evidence coming in? Where else can they go? You can`t run, but can you hide in this case, because, Bill Sheaffer, you were saying the most damning thing is her behavior in the 30 or so days after Caylee goes missing.
What behavior specifically are you talking about, Bill Sheaffer?
SHEAFFER: Well, the very evening that the child disappeared, she`s out with her boyfriend buying videos or watching videos. She`s then very quickly -- followed by that, she`s out spending money from ill-gotten gains. And for 31 days she either partied or she didn`t call anybody and tell them that the child was missing, didn`t alert law enforcement, and as a matter of fact, lied the whole time.
She gets on that stand, and she`s the only one that can sell self- defense. You were a rabid prosecutor. In cross-examination, I`m telling you, Jeff Ashton will make you look like a terrier because he will kill her on cross-examination.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would have to say I have no opinion whatsoever because I think you`re talking about someone`s life and...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed somebody anyway!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just a second. Keep her outside of the courtroom for a minute. Ma`am, would you step out of the room? You shouted out the following, "She killed somebody anyway." Can you give me any reason why you should not be held in contempt of court?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I came here to see -- I`m mentally challenged! I never been in a courtroom like this! I had no idea I was going to say that. I just wanted to see for myself. I have a 3-year-old son, and I wanted to see why. I never meant anything! It`s not like me to say that!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, she went to jail, and now there is a big sign posted outside the courtroom where tot mom will have opening statements in less than 12 hours. What does it say, Jean Casarez?
CASAREZ: Nancy, I`m paraphrasing, but it says there are to be no outward signs of emotions, no facial expressions, comments of any kind, any communication from the gallery towards the evidence.
And Nancy, what everybody is concerned about are George and Cindy Anthony. How can they not have emotion when they hear some of the testimony about little Caylee?
GRACE: Well, you know what? I`ve got a very strong feeling that George and Cindy Anthony truly believe their daughter is innocent. And they have already endured so much. I think if they were going to have an outburst or show emotion, they would probably get up and leave. They would have the wherewithal to do that.
To Kathryn Smerling, Dr. Smerling, psychologist joining us out of New York. Who are these psycho nuts that are showing up at tot mom`s trial? And why are they coming in the courtroom and having outbursts?
KATHRYN SMERLING, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think they identify with -- they identify with Casey Anthony, that`s for sure. And this is a chance for them to get themselves heard. As this woman said, she is mentally challenged, and she also didn`t know. She identified with the fact that she has a 3-year-old son. She wanted to see what a murderer looks like. This woman is not operating with a...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The next juror.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juror number 3140.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m a very old-fashioned lady. I enjoy being around people. I`m friendly. My kids think I`m a great mom.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy loves her very much.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you heard anything about this case in the news media?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The daughter was missing.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Something was wrong. I had a gut feeling something wasn`t right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The grandparents were looking.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re talking about a three-year-old little girl. I need to find her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you formed any opinions about Miss Anthony`s guilt or innocence?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just leave it at that, please. For right now just leave it at that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: We`re camped out at the Orlando courthouse. In less than 12 hours opening statements in the cast of Casey Anthony, tot mom, are set to begin. The judge has already placed public warnings to anyone coming in the courtroom that may have an outburst or show any emotion whatsoever as this trial goes forward. Another outburst of that nature could cost the entire trial and force a mistrial.
We are taking your calls. Finally after three years nearly to the day of Caylee`s disappearance, justice for Caylee. We are taking your calls, but first to Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids foundation. In the last hours the defense drops a bombshell on the state of secret discovery. No one has gotten their mitts on it yet.
It`s the eve of trial. We understand in a new twist that the defense is going to be -- we`ll find out for sure tomorrow -- that this was all just a tragic accident, that tot mom was then too afraid to tell police or her parents that Caylee was dead. What do you make of that, Marc Klaas?
MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT, KLAAS KIDS: Well, maybe something like that happened, but that does not justify nor explain the bad behavior, the failure to report, the lies that she told, the revelation that she`s ready to throw her entire family under the bus so that she doesn`t end up on death row.
I just think that this is just one of the most hideous -- one of the most hideous displace of humanity I`ve ever witnessed from beginning to this point. It`s just absolutely unbelievable what this woman and her defense team are ready to put on the table.
GRACE: I`ve got a couple of questions. Unleash the lawyers. Bill Sheaffer, Joe Jackson. Bill Sheaffer, I`m having a problem jiving. I`ve now figured out and I don`t want to give tips. For instance, the tattoo that says "a beautiful life." I`m sure if the defense is accident, they`ll say that was actually a tribute to Caylee`s life. That was not about my new freedom, my new life I`m embarking without a daughter. That was actually a tribute to Caylee.
But how will they explain the duct tape around the child`s mouth and nose? And how will they explain all the lies that tot mom told, taking police on a wild-goose chase for a month, this series of lies that finally came crashing down around her? If she would lie about that, why should I believe an accident is true?
And the computer searches. Hold on. Wait a minute. The computer searches, Bill Sheaffer, for chloroform, how to make weapons out of home materials found in the home, about breaking necks. How can they explain that?
SHEAFFER: They can`t explain it, Nancy. The defense is doing what the defense has to do. They may throw the world under the bus. But you have to understand if a woman kills her child, is there such a big leap that she`s going to throw her family, her friends, or anyone else under the bus?
That is the big problem for the defense. She is their own worst evidence because of her lies, her failure to report, the computer searches, on and on and on. After a while a jury just says, wait a minute. I might believe you`ve explained a few things away, but not the myriad of things that`s going to lead to this young woman`s conviction.
GRACE: What about it, Ann Bremner? How can she explain the computer searches, which were all the way back in March? For instance, on March 21 it can be proven she was the only one home. Both her parents were at work on March 21, and there are computer searches for homemade chloroform and computer searches for how to break a neck, how to make weapons out of household items.
We have one clue, Ann. When the defense was first opposing the death penalty, a memo was created in which they, the defense state an overly agitated financially strapped mother seeking sleep might likely use an inexpensive risky homemade anesthetic on herself, chloroform.
Using poorer judgment a mother might administer this to quiet her child. Some parents acting on pediatrician`s advice use drugs like Benadryl to keep children quiet on airplanes or help them sleep. Are they comparing the knockout drug chloroform to Benadryl?
ANN BREMNER: Well, yes, because it`s a more common medicine that we`ve heard about. She may be your best evidence, Nancy. We all know, she doesn`t have to explain anything. The state has to prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt. She`s the only one that knows what happens, and this shifts into negligence, a lesser of manslaughter, et cetera. It`s a whole different ball game.
GRACE: You`re talking crazy lawyer talk.
BREMNER: I`m not doing crazy lawyer talk. It`s lawyer talk.
GRACE: How can you explain the computer search, and you`re saying this should be involuntary manslaughter. Explain.
BREMNER: What I was saying is she doesn`t have explain, but I`ll explain. How would she explain it? She used chloroform and made a mistake. There`s no evidence of a broken neck. You have no other computer searches. You have other things to put away from. You can take the whole equation and shift it to accident.
GRACE: Ann, it doesn`t matter that Caylee did not have a broken neck that we know of. Her body was in so many parts.
BREMNER: Why doesn`t it?
GRACE: I`m not sure. I was finishing a sentence.
BREMNER: OK. I`m sorry.
GRACE: And the fact that the cause of death was not that we know of broken neck. That means nothing. The computer searches is the crux of my question. How can those be explained away?
BREMNER: Well, that`s what I was telling you, Nancy. There`s no broken neck, and there`s no significance of that being on someone`s computer search. They don`t have that in the case, so you don`t need to explain it.
I come back to reasonable doubt. They don`t have to explain anything, but they will apparently. We`ll hear the bombshell tomorrow and we`ll know.
GRACE: I disagree with you. When you put forward an accident defense, that is what we call under the law an affirmative defense. Joe Jackson, and when you set forward an affirmative defense such as insanity and accident, you do take on a burden under the law, and you have to prove accident.
I`m going to ask you, Joe Jackson, all three of you are great attorneys. Please explain to me. Computer search where broken neck is there is relevant. It doesn`t matter that Caylee did not have a broken neck that we know of. We don`t have a cause of death. She may have had a broken neck for all I know.
But the computer search is the issue because how can it be an accident three months later when at the end of the march you`re looking up how do you make chloroform? How do you break a neck? How can you use household items as weapons? How do you explain away that computer search?
JOE JACKSON, ATTORNEY: It may be relevant, but how do we direct it towards her? In other words, how do we establish that all those searches related or otherwise had anything to do with her daughter in terms of her after the fact?
GRACE: Because chloroform is found in the trunk. Hello? The computer search is how do you make chloroform. Do I have to connect the dots for you, Joe Jackson? I know you`re smart and know what I`m asking and you`re trying not to answer it.
JACKSON: No, we`re answering it, but the point is you have to connect. If you`re connecting dots, you have to establish she was doing this in a premeditated fashion and it was related to and otherwise had to do with her planning and plotting the demise of her daughter. There`s not a suggestion that she was planning or plotting any demise. If you want to look --
GRACE: To Dr. Marty McCarey, professor of public health at Johns Hopkins. What would the sensation be to a child overdosed with chloroform? Could she look up at her mother at the time?
MCCAREY: The child would be weak, fatigued, sedated. They would be in an altered state of mind. I think it will be presented as a mind- altering medication in a sense. And it`s also used to kill people. It has the dual effect of sedating people, and it has the toxic effect of being able to kill somebody.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is orange county utility emergency dispatch. We found a human skull.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There were plants growing up through the small skeleton. And bug evidence was also recovered. The FBI says it found, quote, "an unusually large concentration of chloroform from the carpet sample from Casey`s trump where they found a mysterious stain.
Detectives believe Casey took the actions that led to her daughter`s death.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know my mom will never forgive me. I`ll never forgive myself.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. We`re camped outside the Orlando courthouse. In less than 12 hours opening statements in the case of tot mom Casey Anthony set to commence. After nearly three years, justice for Caylee. We`re taking your calling. To Maureen in Vermont. Hi, Maureen, what`s your question?
MAUREEN, CALLER FROM VERMONT: Two questions, Nancy. If Casey says it`s an accident, how does she explain putting duct tape over Caylee`s mouth and nose? And also in the beginning, when Cindy said that the smell in the car was from a box of pizza, how come now it`s a garbage bag full of garbage? When did that change?
GRACE: Good question. First of all, the garbage bag full of garbage. Ellie Jostad, chief editorial producer. When did it go from being old pizza to a garbage bag?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It`s not necessarily two mutually exclusive things. There was a bunch of garbage in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car. It included a pizza box and a bag of garbage with a lot of items in it, garbage from Tony Lazarro`s home in that trunk. They claim that caused the smell, both the pizza and garbage.
GRACE: Why was there garbage from his apartment in her trunk?
JOSTAD: That`s a really good question. I don`t know who puts garbage in the trunk of their car, but Tony told detectives that a lot of the stuff in that trunk looked like it came from his house.
GRACE: To Natisha Lance standing by the courthouse. Before I get to the duct tape question, did we ever establish who is Caylee`s father, her biological father, Natisha?
NATISHA LANCE, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: No, that`s never been established. It`s something police have looked into thoroughly. The understanding is that the daughter is deceased and that`s an understanding that police are satisfied with.
GRACE: OK. Natisha, who did they DNA test for paternity?
LANCE: They DNA tested George Anthony as well as lee Anthony. Both came back to be negative, and as far as any other DNA testing that went on, we`re not aware of those. Jesse Grund was also in the mix early on in the case and also with the Anthony family to be the presumed father. He had a DNA test done, and it was determined he`s not the father of Caylee.
GRACE: Ann, let`s follow-up on Maureen in Vermont`s question. How would you as a defense attorney explain the duct tape around Caylee`s mouth and nose?
BREMNER: First of all, accident isn`t an affirmative defense that they have to prove in the defense in a criminal case. So I argue with you on that, Nancy. They don`t have to prove anything to defend this case. That being said, the duct tape, I don`t know. If she`s going to testify, she`s going to have to explain it. Did she panic afterwards?
GRACE: The one question --
BREMNER: It`s a little more complicated, but Nancy, the thing is, she has to say it happened after the fact and she panicked because otherwise it looks premeditated. It can go one way or the another, or she doesn`t testify --
GRACE: I know that. I was asking you as a defense lawyer what your defense would be to that.
Out to Mike Belmessieri, Scott Peterson juror and co-author of "We, the Jury." Mike, thank you for being with us. A lot of questions still about the jury that`s been selected in the tot mom case. They`ve got, you know, several alternates. Not as many as you had in Peterson. What was it like being sequestered for such a long period of time? What are they looking at?
MIKE BELMESSIERI, COAUTHOR, "WE, THE JURY": Well, in respect to the question, as I understand it, is what is it like to be sequestered for a while? It was pretty good darn lonely, actually, because you`re away from your family, all the people you want to be with. When we were sequestered our televisions were monitored. We had no access but to certain specific areas we were allowed to watch.
We were basically put away, and it was like the rest of the world outside of our area didn`t exist. And so it`s really a tough thing to go through. But, you know, it`s something that you need to go through, because, you know, you don`t need to be influenced by the outside media in your decisions.
This jury has got some pretty tough things that they`re going to be looking at, I`m sure. And one of the things, though, I think they`re going to have a real tough time in respect to the defense getting past is what I`ve seen is some of the actions that this woman has done while in 31 days her child is missing.
I see a lot of similarities in this case between Scott Peterson and this case. The only difference was Scott was a lot better actor, if you will. He actually looked like he cared. I don`t see that happening here when I`ve seen this mother. It`s almost as if the world has set her free.
What a sad situation even at the best -- anyway, you know, the problem is that what this jury is going through is going to be some very emotional, very, very stressful deliberations.
GRACE: Right. Extremely stressful, Mike, extremely stressful. Very quickly to Bill Sheaffer. Back to Ann Bremner`s comment that accident is not an affirmative defense in Florida. Is it or is it not? You practice in Florida.
SHEAFFER: It is an affirmative defense. But Nancy, I have to tell you something. After three years, after three years you ask a question, and I had an epiphany. Why was there garbage in the trunk? There can only be one answer to that. She put it in the trunk to mask the smell of human decomposition.
GRACE: You know what, I wonder if the state is watching tonight. To Carolyn Robins, jury consultant out of Miami. Carolyn, what do you make of this jury being sequestered? Will that affect their ability to reach a verdict?
CAROLYN ROBINS, JURY CONSULTANT: No, I don`t think it`s going to. I respect what your sequestered jury said. You`re very lonely. You`re very isolated. It`s your new reality. I don`t think people are ready for the way it`s going to hit them. No, I don`t think it`s going to affect their ability to reach a verdict. In fact, I think it will help them to concentrate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: Live, Illinois, six-year-old Timmy missing. Joe Gomez, KTRH, what happened?
JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER KTRH: Police have been an exhaustive search for six-year-old timothy for the past ten days. A week and a half ago his mom picked him up from kindergarten spanning Illinois, Wisconsin. It all came to an end when a mother was found dead, her wrists cut, a suicide note on the night stand. Little Timmy is nowhere to be found.
GRACE: To Brad Dennis, what should police be doing now?
BRAD DENNIS, KLAAS KIDS: Conducting hasty searches along the rest stop areas, up and down the freeway where she was obviously traveling with the little boy based on the cell phone pings.
GRACE: Right. You would start with freeway searches.
DENNIS: Yes. Freeway searches.
GRACE: What about it, Bill Majeski, agree or disagree?
BILL MAJESKI: The evidence to be found is on her computer and cell phone. They have to create some kind of a timeline to determine who she may have been in contact with over the past six months. There`s a very real possibility that somebody she was in contact with over the past five or six or seven months is someone she may have trusted enough to give her son to and hopefully that`s the situation.
GRACE: Ben Levitan, telecommunications expert. What do you think cops should be doing?
BEN LEVITAN, TELECOMMUNICATIONS EXPERT: Well, I think he`s exactly right, Nancy. They need to be looking at who she communicated with, because this was obviously well planned out. If -- every cell phone company in the world has a police emergency number, a law enforcement emergency number. They should have been on that number the next day finding out who she was in contact with. Obviously she --
GRACE: To Linda, his grandmother, what are police telling you, Linda?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re just telling us that they keep searching. They`re starting to check more records, really they don`t have much. At least they`re not telling us.
GRACE: Please put up the tip line for Timmy. Six-year-old Timmy is missing. What can we do? 630-256-5500. There`s a $5,000 reward.
Let`s stop and remember Navy petty officer third class, Lee Deal, 23, Louisiana, killed Iraq. Awarded purple heart, national defense service medal, Iraqi campaigned, loved football, soccer, baseball, golf. Loved to smile and joke, known as doc. Leaves behind parents, Harry and Melanie, brother, Justin. Lee Deal, American hero.
Thanks to all of our guests but especially to you for being with us. Everyone, we`ll be here live in the courtroom with opening statements set to begin in the morning in the trial of tot mom. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. And until then, goodnight, friends.
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