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NANCY GRACE

White House Debates Release of bin Laden Death Photo

Aired May 3, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Surgical strike, 40 minutes on the ground.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Osama bin Laden is dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A team of Navy SEALs in helicopters raided the compound.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: After a firefight, they killed Osama bin Laden and took custody of his body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bin Laden resisted and was killed in the firefight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: U.S. officials say intelligence officers are now examining computer equipment and documents that were seized from bin Laden`s mansion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With al Qaeda decapitated, experts believe this is now a terror network in crisis.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It may be a mortally wounded tiger that still has some life in it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Analysts say if no leader steps to the fore immediately, it doesn`t make al Qaeda less dangerous.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s good to see an evil person receive justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look for the threats to spike as the network seeks to avenge bin Laden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. After nearly 10 years and the most massive manhunt in world history, the man who masterminds the single worst attack on U.S. soil, 9/11, found hiding, hiding in a million- dollar mansion. He takes an American bullet to the eye. Osama bin Laden dead!

Bombshell tonight. In the hours after the U.S. assassination of bin Laden, the retaliation begins. In the last hours, five unknown men arrested at a Manchester nuclear power plant, U.K. Are the five al Qaeda men operatives? And the Tehrik-e-Taliban says they are proud of bin Laden`s, quote, "martyrdom," that they, quote, "allegedly have their people in place in the U.S." and will take revenge for bin Laden`s death. As the U.S. sifts through a treasure trove of evidence seized from bin Laden`s compound, we wait for the photo of a dead bin Laden to be released for final, hard proof that bin Laden is dead.

Right now, we are going straight out to Daniel Stone, White House correspondent, "Newsweek." Daniel, what have we learned in the last hours?

DANIEL STONE, "NEWSWEEK": We`ve learned in the last hours from the White House -- they`ve mentioned exactly how this operation went down. We have a very detailed plan now of exactly what the two teams in Abbottabad, Pakistan, did over the weekend did that led to the killing and capturing of Osama bin Laden.

We also know new details about the photos that the White House currently has and that they`re debating whether or not to release and when to release them. Those are the ongoing negotiations. And certainly, what we`re hearing is...

GRACE: Well, hold on. Daniel, I am hearing as I got to air that Panetta says they will absolutely release it. But let me hear from you. What are the pros and cons of releasing it?

STONE: Well, certainly, timing is one of them. Even if they`re going to release them, they need to do it at a strategic time. Like you said in your intro, this is a time where retaliation could be at a peak, where we`re expecting, you know, potential new threats coming in. They don`t want those photos to fuel any of those insurgents or those people trying to avenge bin Laden`s death anywhere around the world. They don`t want it to be an organizing tool for more al Qaeda organizing.

GRACE: Well, let me ask you this -- everyone, we are taking your calls live, including everyone on our panel tonight. Here, at Ground Zero, across the waters, we are taking your calls and answering them. Let your voice be heard tonight.

My question to you, Daniel, is get real! You think these people that want to attack the U.S. in retaliation are not already inflamed? Releasing the photo is somehow going to make it worse or not releasing it, you think that that will make them pull back their efforts against the U.S.?

STONE: I think it could mobilize them a lot faster to see this person, their symbol, their flagship, the cornerstone of their organization -- to see a picture where there`s a bullet hole in his face, to see gory images, like, with blood and brains coming out. That`s a -- you know, perhaps not something that would minimize the threat but certainly could speed it up.

GRACE: To Rita Cosby, investigative reporter, one of the first to report bin Laden`s actually link to September 11. Rita, what more have we learned in the hours after bin Laden`s assassination?

RITA COSBY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, we`ve learned a lot of details of who was in the house. And this is fascinating, Nancy. Apparently, they`re saying as many as 17 people were in that compound where bin Laden was. And in fact, when they went in, the two SEAL team -- SEAL team six -- one team went to one house, another one went to another house. This was a large compound. In one house, they found some family members. In the other house, they went immediately to these couriers, these, quote, sort of courier-bodyguards. They were shot and killed. A woman was also shot and killed in the crossfire. And then they went upstairs to the second and third floor...

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Wait a minute! Rita! Rita!

COSBY: Yes?

GRACE: I don`t think she was killed in the crossfire. I think one of the al Qaeda were actually using her as a human shield! And my question would be today is, How do we know the U.S. SEALs even shot her? How do I know it wasn`t one of them that shot her? They were the one using her! They`re so brave, they`re using a woman as a human shield! Isn`t that how the woman was shot, and in addition, of course, to one of bin Laden`s alleged wives being shot in the leg?

COSBY: Well, see, that`s what they`re saying, Nancy. The White House is saying it was in the, quote, "crossfire." I`m giving you what the officials are saying. Originally, at first, they said there was a human shield. Now we`re getting some details. They`re saying in the crossfire. This is the specific language we`re getting from the White House.

In terms of what you`re saying, yes, there were women in the house. They seemed to be trying to protect bin Laden. And do know that when they went upstairs to that second and third floor -- that`s where bin Laden was -- the wife, they said, quote "charged" one of the Navy SEALs, and that`s when they shot her in the leg. So it`s fascinating knowing all the details now of what happened leading to that raid.

GRACE: You are seeing exclusive video inside bin Laden`s compound after the military raid by the U.S. SEALs. This is from ABC News.

I want to go back to Daniel Stone, correspondent, "Newsweek." Daniel, what do we know about the actual layout of the compound?

STONE: This was a very large compound. Remember, it was one of the biggest in the neighborhood, two buildings and a front yard and a back yard. That`s where the helicopters came down. One of the teams from one of the helicopters went into the smaller building that housed one of the families. The other team went into the larger building where bin Laden was and several of those couriers.

The large building is where the gunfire occurred. Two of those couriers, like we just discussed, were killed. One of those women was killed on the ground floor. The team then went upstairs and they encountered Mr. Bin Laden on either the second or third floor. When they got to that room he was in, they were rushed by a different woman who was protecting him. She was shot at that point in the leg, so not fatally. And quickly thereafter, Mr. Bin Laden was shot two times in the face, and he was taken down by that.

GRACE: And today, another controversy has arisen, reports refuting that bin Laden was actually armed, many saying he was not armed. Then others say, No, he was reaching for a weapon. Others say he had a weapon and pulled it on the SEALs. But the reality is, what is the difference in the aftermath?

Back out to you, Daniel, Daniel Stone joining us from "Newsweek." Tell me the implications of those three scenarios, either armed, unarmed or reaching for a weapon.

STONE: Well, the word we got from the White House today, he was not armed, but he did resist. So we don`t know exactly what that means, he resisted. Now, the White House said yesterday they would have taken him dead or alive. They would have captured him or killed him. Obviously, like you said, that presents a lot of implications for what you do after. If bin Laden were taken alive, he would presumably be taken back to America, and then we would have seen some legal proceedings. It would have been a much messier and long-term process.

GRACE: Joining me now from Islamabad is Leone Lakhani, CNN correspondent. Leone, you are on the ground there. Tell me what is the reaction there to the assassination of Osama bin Laden?

LEONE LAKHANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Nancy, you`d expect that we`d be seeing some kind of strong emotion. You know, there`s -- but when you go out on the streets, the reaction`s been pretty muted. I mean, there`s no jubilations, no outpouring of anger, either. It`s -- what you really do see on the streets is complete disbelief. Most people we speak to on the street don`t believe bin Laden was, indeed, killed. They want to see evidence. They want to see photographic evidence.

And what they also cannot believe, that he was living amidst the people of Abbottabad, which is such a prominent city, for so many years without being detected. They really can`t believe it. Some people even told us that -- they were quite angry that he was found on Pakistan land, if, indeed, they believed that he was.

GRACE: Joining me right now is CNN senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson, joining us from Pakistan. Nic, thank you so much for being with us. Tell me what you have learned. You have gotten very close to the compound where bin Laden was assassinated. What did you learn, Nic?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I think the thing that we learned there at the compound was just how secretive the bin Laden family was. And to give you an idea about that, one of the neighbors who lived just 50 yards away and could look across the fields and into bin Laden`s compound area, said that when local children -- when they kicked their balls into the compound, the family didn`t let them in, like everyone else in the area did to get their balls out by themselves from the compound. They just gave the children money and told them to go and buy another ball.

And there were late night arrivals, people coming in in expensive SUV vehicles, which is unusual in this area, coming late at night. Local residents say that they decided that these were some kind of rich Pakistani businessmen, gold merchants, some sort of shady business perhaps, they thought.

But the privacy around here is quite intense. It`s a cultural thing. You don`t look into other people`s compounds. If they don`t talk to you, you get on with your life. You don`t poke into theirs. And that played into bin Laden`s hand so big. I mean, this is what essentially kept him beyond their eyesight. Nobody came to the door and said, Hey, you`ve been here two years. Let`s see your face. They just came out very rarely. That`s what people here tell us, Nancy.

GRACE: Is it -- is it true, Nic Robertson -- everyone, we are taking your calls, including Nic Robertson, CNN senior international correspondent joining us there from Abbottabad, Pakistan. Nic, is it true that no one ever saw bin Laden coming in and out, only these couriers? In other words, his closest and most trusted friends and allies would come in and out. Nobody ever actually saw bin Laden.

ROBERTSON: They didn`t. That`s what all the people around here tell us. But you have to ask the question, if he was living here perhaps for several years, what did he do when he need a doctor or one of his wives needed a doctor or one of the eight or nine children in the house needed a doctor? What was the story they told the doctor when they went to see him, or heaven forbid, in their case, that he had to come to their compound? How did they get around the sort of daily or sort of weekly, monthly emergencies in life, dealing with people on the outside and keeping up this cover?

That`s what`s incredible. And I think that`s what`s incredible to the people who live here, as well. They`re shocked. The man I talked to who lived just 50 yards from the compound told me he was glad bin Laden was dead. He said, We need safety. We need security. We need peace because we need to improve our economy. We need to improve our education. He said, that`s the only way we`re going to get a better life for our families. So they`re surprised and they`re glad that he`s gone, Nancy.

GRACE: Still to Nic Robertson, joining us live from Pakistan. He is outside the bin Laden compound. He has gotten up very, very close to it, as well as talked to neighbors surrounding the area. I want to talk -- find out what you know about the computers found inside the bin Laden compound. We`ve been told he has no Internet, no TV, no landline telephone. But computers, hard drives, memory sticks were taken. It suggests to me that these couriers would bring him what they could access outside compound walls on the Internet, bring it to him. He would work on the memory sticks, work on the hard drives, work on the computers, and actually go back and forth. And that is how he was getting all of his information. Yes, no, Nic Robertson?

ROBERTSON: Nancy, that`s entirely possible. We know bin Laden put out statements over the years. We know other things about him, as well. Think back, 2001, Kandahar. Bin Laden lived in a house. He stockpiled videotapes. Remember back in 2002 when CNN got some of those videotapes? It was his library, his archive.

And I think there`s perhaps good evidence here, that much of what may be on those hard drives and data sticks will be material that he`s collected about himself over the years and he`s storing it on those drives. He had a satellite dish for watching television inside his compound. It`s quite possible he was recording some of that.

We know that when he put out his speeches, his video speeches and his audio messages, that they would often be quite timely, compared to the sort of world events and news. He was clearly a man in tune with what was happening in the world around him. He stayed in touch by watching satellite television. He stayed in touch through the couriers. And he probably accumulated a lot of all that -- all those things that he wanted to remember and keep, as he did in Kandahar back in 2001. He was perhaps doing it this time not on videotapes as he did back then, but on all these hard drives. Al Qaeda had a very strong machine for getting its message out. Some of it may have been in his compound there, Nancy.

GRACE: Nic Robertson is joining us there in Pakistan. Nic, the big question tonight -- who was funding him? Who built this place? And he`s been there six years, nearly six years, hiding in plain sight. Who gave him the money, Nic?

ROBERTSON: He was a charismatic figure. There are people in the Middle East, in the gulf region who respect him, who believe that he`s doing the right thing for Arab, that he`s an Arab hero, that he`s a hero for Muslims, and the course that he`s on, as nihilistic it is for the world, is the right course. And they`re likely the people, rich gulf people, Arabs, perhaps, other Muslims sent him money, kept him the way he`s been living, Nancy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a 40-minute military operation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The world`s most wanted man.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A combination of one single intelligence threat which took years to realize.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very tense moments.

OBAMA: We have located bin Laden hiding within a compound deep inside Pakistan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Locals residents spoke of intense gunfire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We want to restore our Islamic nation`s freedom. Just as you violate our security, we violate yours.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their operational leadership is decimated. Now their ideological leadership and the spokesman is gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: American intelligent officials are sorting through items seized from that compound where bin Laden was killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seized from bin Laden`s mansion, personal computers, thumb drives and electronic equipment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Filling his void will be a disjointed, messy undertaking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Tim in New York. Hi, Tim.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hi. How`re you doing, Nancy?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, all I`m saying is -- I`m a retired police officer in New York and I was there at Ground Zero. And I was there for a few months before I had retired. And let me tell you, the easiest way to show these people, those extremists, that this is what is going to happen if you mess or if you commit crimes against America, this is what we`ll do.

And as far as people saying, Well, did he have a gun, didn`t he have a gun -- Nancy, I was a cop. You were a DA. It`s the perception of the person who has the gun trying to stop the other person. If you don`t follow my orders, if you don`t do what I tell you to do and you come at me, that`s your problem. That`s not my problem.

Show the picture. Let them see what`s going to happen. You may ignite some stuff, but not as much as you`re going to ignite if they think he`s some god. Gods don`t get shot in the head, get killed and buried at sea. It don`t happen. You`re not a god, you`re a man and a nasty, evil man.

GRACE: You know, Tim in New York, you`re absolutely correct. And we are hearing as we went to air tonight that Panetta says they are, in fact, going release the photo. Apparently, he agrees with you. And the reality is, everyone keeps saying, Well, it`s going to pour gas on the flame. There`s already gas on the flame, all right? There have been dozens of attempts foiled since 9/11. So releasing this photo I don`t think is going make it any worse than it already is. And it will send the message that you are describing, Tim. This is what happens. We have not forgotten September 11. We promised to hunt bin Laden down, and we did.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to Diane in Florida. Hi, Diane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s always nice to talk to you.

GRACE: Likewise, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was he buried at sea?

GRACE: Why was he buried at sea? That`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Uh-huh.

GRACE: OK, I want to go out to Rita Cosby. Rita, in a nutshell, please explain the burial at sea.

COSBY: He was buried at sea for a number of reasons. First of all, officials at the White House are saying that no country wanted to accept his body. They didn`t want to have a place where it could become a shrine for terrorists. And then on the other hand, also, it was a quick way to dispose of the body, and they said they also did a, quote, "a proper Islamic burial."

GRACE: And speaking of that, Rita Cosby, out to Michael Griffith, international criminal defense attorney, who has handled cases throughout this region of the world. Weigh in, Michael, on the burial at sea.

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via telephone): Well, Nancy, the burial at sea, obviously, people can`t visit that spot. So there wouldn`t be crowds coming to honor him. But Nancy, if I may say, I think that this operation may have been very reckless if we did not have the permission of the Pakistanis because...

GRACE: Whoa! Wait a minute! The permission of the Pakistanis!

GRIFFITH: Yes, because...

GRACE: They had to either be incompetent or complicit in hiding him! Ask permission from them, as somebody in that government would have told bin Laden, and he would still be alive today! Are you crazy, Griffith?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The end began with four U.S. military helicopters and two dozen commandos arriving overhead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we`ll never have closure. Any of the families.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Back at the White House the president`s national security team was anxiously watching video from the site.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He will not live to inspire any more terrorists.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: With a shot to the chest, and one to the head, the SEALs killed Osama bin Laden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a tremendous sigh of relief.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, this is the end of a decade-long hunt for the head of al Qaeda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Douglas Brian Gurian (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Intelligence officials stress it`s not the end of the terrorist organization.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not over by a long shot.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls in the aftermath of the assassination of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden. The plot seems to thicken as to who funded him. How did he live in a million dollar compound behind 18-foot walls there in Pakistan.

And we have just heard from international lawyer Michael Griffith that we should have gotten permission from Pakistan to assassinate bin Laden, the man that is responsible for the deaths of thousands of Americans, including on American soil.

Explain yourself, Griffith.

MICHAEL GRIFFITH, INTERNATIONAL LAW ATTORNEY/CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via phone): Nancy, the Pakistanis have F-16s which we`ve given them. Abbottabad is only 35 miles from their capital Islamabad where their office and training school is.

Could you imagine -- could you imagine if four helicopters came into Indianapolis where our naval training school is only 30 miles outside of Washington in the middle of the night? If the Pakistanis didn`t know that we were coming these things --

GRACE: Hey, Griffith.

GRIFFITH: -- could have been shut down --

GRACE: Griffith, Griffith, hold on.

GRIFFITH: Yes.

GRACE: If the Pakistanis didn`t know the head of al Qaeda, public enemy number one, was living right under their nose for six years, do you think they are going to see an American helicopter in the middle of the night? I don`t think so.

Now what you were saying was about protocol. That we should have gotten permission.

B.S., Michael Griffith, because if we had asked anybody in that government, it would have gotten back to bin Laden and he would have been gone again.

GRIFFITH: Nancy, we have a bad history of extracting hostages. During the Vietnamese war we sent helicopters in, there were no hostages there, in the (INAUDIBLE) incident --

GRACE: Jimmy Carter.

GRIFFITH: In Cambodia our helicopters were shut down.

GRACE: Jimmy Carter.

GRIFFITH: In Iran, our helicopters --

GRACE: Rescue aborted.

GRIFFITH: Were destroyed. I`m just saying that --

GRACE: You`re just saying.

(CROSSTALK)

GRIFFITH: Not realizing that they were our helicopters that could have been shot down.

GRACE: Well, Michael Griffith, if we had sought permission there would be no reason to send in a helicopter because bin Laden would be gone.

Hold on. Hold on. Let`s get an expert.

Frances Townsend joining us. CNN national security contributor, former Bush homeland security adviser.

Frances, weigh in.

FRANCES TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: Nancy, look. Let me -- this is the voice of somebody who is actually tried to work with the Pakistanis. We had given them intelligence to see if we could work with them cooperatively and as you say, Nancy, either they didn`t act on it at all during the Bush administration oftentimes, or it got leaked to the bad guys who then fled and we had no opportunity.

There`s no way -- I understand the threat, the problem that Michael is talking about. But I have to tell you that`s why the Navy SEALs train for these missions to avoid detection, to get into the country and then to (INAUDIBLE) themselves and whoever they need to. And so the SEALs were trained to do this very thing.

And by the way the attorney general of the United States said it was perfectly legal the way it was done and he was satisfied with the operation. So there`s neither a legal problem nor an operational problem. This was the only way it could have been done successfully.

GRACE: With me is Frances Townsend, taking your calls, CNN national security contributor, former homeland security adviser at the time all of this was first starting.

Frances, listen, I`m not a Democrat, I`m not a Republican, I`m a nothing, because I distrust all politicians. No offense to your former boss. But here`s my question, he has steered clear of media this week. I find that very interesting.

What`s your take on it? Why?

TOWNSEND: You know, Nancy, I should tell you, I was a career civil servant. I was a career prosecutor like yourself. I served Republicans and Democrats, and so I found myself in this position at the White House.

You know, look, I`ve had -- President Bush and I exchanged e-mails the other day. I think his view is that this is a moment of national pride for the country and in fact he didn`t have this opportunity but President Obama did. It was a successful operation. And that`s his success, and I think the president has shown tremendous restraint and grace, you know, and generosity in not trying to insert himself into this -- into this particular time.

GRACE: Well, I don`t want to drag you into politics, U.S. politics, because, you know, I can smell them a mile away.

But Frances, let me ask you about releasing the death photo of bin Laden. What do you think? Should we, shouldn`t we? Panetta says he`s going to. A lot of protesters claim that that`s going add fuel to the flame of al Qaeda. And the Taliban. But they are already inflamed.

TOWNSEND: That`s exactly right, Nancy. I don`t understand what all the hand wringing is. And I don`t know what it is they have to decide. They originally said they didn`t think that the pictures were suitable for publication of the press. Well, seems to me that`s a press decision. I don`t want the government to decide what should be or not in the press. They should release them because there are people who will not believe this until they see these photos. There will --

GRACE: Well, hold on, Frances, you`re absolutely correct.

Let me go to Leone Lakhani, joining us tonight there in Pakistan.

Leone, you were just telling us before we went to Nic Robertson that people on the street, they`re not upset, they`re not jubilant, they`re nothing because they don`t believe it.

LEONE LAKHANI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And they really don`t, Nancy. And repeatedly we have people coming and telling us, that, you know -- you know we need to see the evidence. We think he`s still alive. That this whole thing is fake. It`s a hoax.

It`s going to very difficult to convince people and the point you`re making about the fact that will these pictures inflame, it`s difficult to say, really, because obviously there are some people who may -- who have sympathized with bin Laden in the past.

There`s one other feeling, though, on the streets, Nancy, because there`s been obviously a lot of criticism of the Pakistani authorities on how bin Laden was able to live and live in Abbottabad for so long without being detected.

There`s been so much criticism about their lukewarm response to fighting terrorism. But another feeling we get on the street and a lot of people coming forward and saying hey, look, the Pakistani people themselves have been victims and have paid a very heavy price because of the war on terrorism. Thousands of people have lost their lives as a result of the attack.

So many people are very happy that he`s gone and they do want to see this entire war on terror end, to be honest. They just -- they just say that we need to remind people that many, many al Qaeda operatives have been arrested in Pakistan more than any other country and we have lost many lives in this country. That`s what they keep telling us.

GRACE: But, you know, Frances Townsend, there`s that coin is double sided. Yes, more have been arrested in Pakistan, which is great for America that they have been arrested but what does that mean? What does that say for Pakistan that they are all there? They`re all running to Pakistan including bin Laden.

How could they not know, Frances?

TOWNSEND: Well, you know, it`s interesting, Nancy. I mean, look, I think you said it earlier, they`re either incompetent or they are complicit. And frankly, we`ve got to ask ourselves, if you`re the government of Pakistan receiving billion of dollars in military --

GRACE: Twenty. Twenty.

TOWNSEND: $20 billion. That`s right.

GRACE: $20 billion.

TOWNSEND: OK. Because we want you -- to support you in the hunt for a terrorist like bin Laden, aren`t you going to be afraid? If we actually killed bin Laden you may be afraid of losing some of that foreign aid. And so -- you know, I think we really have to ask the question of them, it seems to me, it`s hard to be that incompetent. How could they not have been complicit?

GRACE: To Cindy in Arizona. Hi, Cindy. What`s your question, dear?

CINDY, CALLER FROM ARIZONA: Hi, Nancy. My question is, last night you were saying that they had DNA proof that --

GRACE: Yes.

CINDY: -- he was dead. How in the world did they process that DNA so quickly in real life?

GRACE: Cindy, let me tell you something. They`ve been doing field testing out in the fields of U.S. battles for decades. You can do an immediate field test and get a response within hours. Very, very well known fact.

And, you know, to you -- I`ll go back to you, Michael Griffith. Trial attorneys know that. We know it doesn`t take 72 hours, six weeks, six months to get DNA. You can get it very quickly if you`ve got the resources to get it, as oppose to a backlogged crime lab.

GRIFFITH: Well, you can get it quickly. And Nancy, in this particular case they had the DNA of one or two of his family members. So they were able to compare it immediately.

And I`d like to say one thing to you, Nancy, if a neighbor down the street from you built a house with a big wall and bin Laden moved in the middle of the night, would you know he was there inside?

GRACE: Yes. I`d find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Right now to Anderson Cooper, host of "AC 360."

Anderson, thank you for being with us.

Anderson is joining us from Ground Zero.

What can you tell us, Anderson, about threats of revenge against America?

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, AC 360: Well, that`s certainly, you know, a concern I think that U.S. officials have and frankly officials in a lot of countries around the world right -- have right now.

You know they put authorities on alert, put security services on alert, embassies on alert around the world, and they`re warning Americans traveling overseas as well, of course, to be vigilant.

But look, that`s the price of -- you know, the times that we live in right now, Nancy. It`s not as if we need -- our enemies need another reason to hate us. They have plenty of reasons to hate us as it is. So I don`t people should be particularly worried any more than they would normally be as long as people are vigilant.

GRACE: Anderson, a big controversy about whether the photos should be released. Panetta is saying it will be released. Protesters saying that that will only add fuel to the flame.

But Anderson, the flame is already there. It`s a fire we can`t put out. What do you -- what`s your take on it?

COOPER: Well, you know, I try not expand on things like this. You know I think it`s up to people to decide whether they want to see the picture or not. People can look at the picture if they don`t want to.

You know I`ve heard people say today that right now the image that exists is this positive image of people celebrating outside of the White House, why ruin that with a gory picture of bin Laden? This is a man who should be left on the dust heap of history, not remembered.

Others, look, we want to see proof. They want to see some sort of -- have some sort of sense of finality and not just have that this guy disappears into the sea.

GRACE: You know, Anderson, already the Tehrik-i-Taliban Pakistan, the TTP, has spoken out. What do you know about their threat against America?

COOPER: Look, you know, there`s plenty of groups that are going to make threats that are trying to get to cash in on the kind of attention that they would get by making a threat right now. Any group that comes out and makes a threat, they`re going to get a lot of news media attention.

I don`t think we should give them any more attention, frankly, than is warranted. Look, a lot of groups are going to rattler their sabers, they`re going to make threats. It remains to be seen what operational capabilities they really have and how much of a reach they really have.

GRACE: You know, Anderson, with all of the suggestions that a retaliation is imminent, what targets are concerning to the U.S.?

COOPER: Well, look, any obviously U.S. installation overseas, embassies, military bases. But those are pretty well guarded. So you have to look -- you know, be concerned about softer targets. Places where tourists visit. Just last week in Marrakech, Morocco, a cafe was bombed, a suicide attack there, I believe it was. A number of foreigners were killed.

So you have to look at places where Americans would congregate, discos, nightclubs, restaurants, any place overseas that there`s not a security perimeter around or bags aren`t searched when they come in. Those are the kind of easy soft targets I think that really have officials worried.

And obviously targets back in the continental United States, that`s a lot harder to hit but places where people gather would obviously be of a concern. But, look, you know, it`s easy to be worried and live in fear but I think that it`s important not to. It`s important to live our lives and to travel and to do the things that we all want to do and not give these people more attention or more credence than they deserve.

GRACE: You know, in the hours after bin Laden`s assassination we`re learning much more about the way that the assassination went down, Anderson. What have you learned?

COOPER: Well, it`s not just a Navy SEAL team which carried out this mission. It`s a Navy SEAL Team 6 which is sort of the elite of the elite. I mean these Navy SEALs are incredibly -- you know, incredibly highly trained. They are the most -- the best of the best inside the Navy`s special forces.

Navy SEAL Team 6 are basically handpicked from different SEAL teams. They are experts in close quarter combat just the kind of stuff that they knew that they would be facing in an operation like this.

We know that they planned up a mockup -- actually two different mockups of the compound that bin Laden had been living in. We now know -- we believe bin Laden had been living there for more than five years which is just extraordinary, Nancy.

I mean that`s really -- still the question that is yet to be answered by Pakistan authorities. How it is possible that this mass murderer who is quite identifiable, you know, very tall guy, who is not a Pakistani, can live -- move into this neighborhood, live in this neighborhood, build a million-dollar compound, and no one raised questions about it, given that this is a military cantonment area in Pakistan. You got troops on every block. And you`ve got a military academy about a mile way.

GRACE: OK. Here`s the deal, Anderson. They did know. They are going to deny it from now on. The U.S. is going to say we`re not going to give them any more money and then we are. All right? So that`s the way that`s going to play out.

What I`m more concerned about right now is the aftermath of his death. How that`s going to be used against the U.S. Already there is protests. Was he armed, was he not armed, was he reaching for a gun.

Anderson, under these three theories -- armed, unarmed, reaching for a gun -- what difference does it make?

COOPER: Yes. Well, look, people are going to quibble and people are going to have conspiracy theories. This always happens, but the wheel of history is moving in the right direction.

Right now the voices in the Muslim world, in the Middle East, are the voices calling for freedom, calling for democracy in countries all over the Middle East right now. That`s the group, those -- that`s the new face of the Middle East. Bin Laden`s face is gone. It`s got two bullets in it, one bullet to the left side of his face, one bullet to the left side of his chest, and he`s at the bottom of the ocean somewhere.

History is moving forward and these al Qaeda groups, they`re going to stick around, they`re going to kill people, they`re going to continue to do their operations but we`re seeing remarkable changes right now in the Middle East, changes that could lead to a much better life for the people there, and frankly for people all around the world.

GRACE: To Alice Hoagland, her son Mark Bingham killed September 11th.

Alice, I know that you are hearing everything Anderson and others are saying. What is your reaction tonight?

ALICE HOAGLAND, SON MARK BINGHAM, KILLED DURING 9/11 ATTACKS: Well, Nancy, I`m very grateful to you first for asking the tough questions and I have to say I agree with you on almost every point.

I also think that it`s wonderful that Leone, and was it Nic, have mentioned that the people of Pakistan are not in lockstep with Osama bin Laden. They actually resented his acts and are glad that United States has relieved them of him.

GRACE: With me tonight, Alice Hoagland.

Tonight, we remember her son, Mark Bingham, who lost his life September 11th.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Straight out to Thomas McHale, Port Authority police detective, 9/11 First Responder.

What do you think are the top targets for retaliation?

DET. THOMAS MCHALE, PORT AUTHORITY POLICE DETECTIVE, 9/11 FIRST RESPONDER: As far as top targets, you know, it -- I can`t comment on specific targets, but as we know from historically, it would be soft targets.

GRACE: You mean like shopping malls and tourist attractions?

MCHALE: Where you don`t have a large uniform police presence.

GRACE: OK. To Simone Monasebian, former war crimes tribunal prosecutors. If he had been taken alive, where would he have been tried, Simone?

SIMONE MONASEBIAN, FORMER WAR CRIMES TRIBUNAL PROSECUTOR: Well, there were a number of options. Initially there was a thought that maybe we would have an international criminal tribunal for him like we do in The Hague, or maybe it was thought after that, that`s not a good idea, because if he`s tried before an international criminal tribunal, there`s no death penalty.

Where I tried war criminals in the U.N., the worst that they could get is a life imprisonment. So what would probably happen is he would be tried before a military commission because, as you know, Eric Holder said with regard to Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, we cannot try him in a federal court. It has to be before a military commission.

GRACE: Well put, Simone Monasebian.

To Chris Heben, former Navy SEAL, Medical Security International COO.

Chris, will the SEALs that performed this operation ever be made public?

CHRIS HEBEN, FORMER NAVY SEAL & COO, MEDICAL SECURITY INTERNATIONAL: Absolutely not. That would put their lives at risk and their families at risk, not only in the present day but for generations to come.

GRACE: And what went into this assassination attempt? How many times did they practice?

HEBEN: They practiced this ad infinitum, ad nauseam. They`ve had a mock facility where they started doing the dry-runs and then higher speed runs where they implemented everything they were going to use on the actual op. They`ve been doing it since late -- later part of March, early part of April. I would say they`ve probably done this at least 100 times.

GRACE: And to Dr. Bill Manion, if there is a photo released with a head wound, will you still be able to identify bin Laden?

DR. BILL MANION, M.D., MEDICAL EXAMINER, BURLINGTON COUNTY, NJ: Well, it sounds like there was limited injury on the left side of the head, so I guess visually you can identify him. Remember, though, the government has morphometric techniques. They probably X-rayed his body before they released it into the sea. And they have previous pictures and they can use morphometrics to really nail down the width of his head, the height, the length, things of that nature.

GRACE: To Ben Levitan, I didn`t get to you, Ben, but I would like to find out if I could tomorrow night how the U.S. was able to view this in real time as the assassination went down.

Everyone, I want to thank you all, but our biggest thanks is to you for being with us. Special good night to Brenda, Jarrett and Eva.

Aren`t they beautiful?

And happy 11th birthday to Melissa Marie. Loves books, ice cream and Justin Bieber.

Happy birthday, dear.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END