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NANCY GRACE

Search for 4-Year-Old Snatched From Grandmother`s Arms

Aired January 21, 2011 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of California, where authorities are on high alert for a 4-year-old little boy ripped from the arms of his own grandmother. Juliani Cardenas -- he stayed home from pre-school. He didn`t feel well. His grandma was taking care of him while his mother worked. But suddenly, a man walks into the house, pushes his grandma, takes Juliani and won`t let go. She watches helplessly as he is kidnapped in broad daylight. Just moments before the kidnapping, the suspect is caught on surveillance video at a local convenience store. What`s he doing? He`s buying beer. A tip leads search and dive teams to a local canal where minutes ago, they have pulled up another car. Tonight, we need your help to find 4-year-old Juliani.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I need him home! I know Juliani is telling you that he misses me and that he wants to come home, and you need to bring him home!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: After this emotional plea with tears in her eyes, Tabitha (ph) Cardenas relived the moment her little boy was taken. She says her grandmother, who you see here, was watching Juliani when her ex-boyfriend rips the little boy from her mother`s arms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All (INAUDIBLE) hang onto him! And she finally let go!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A frantic mom begging for the return of her 4- year-old little boy who was snatched from his grandmother`s arms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re concerned because he has a criminal history.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s not in his right state of mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight.

A 4-year-old little California boy ripped -- just ripped -- from the arms of his own grandmother. Law enforcement are intensifying their search tonight as divers continue to see if the latest car pulled out of a canal matches the suspect`s, all while surveillance video emerges. But where is 4-year-old Juliani?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-seven-year-old Jose Rodriguez (ph) snatched the child from the grandmother at her home in broad daylight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need him home!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Her ex-boyfriend wrestled the boy away from his grandmother, then just took off.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think he was mad at my daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s doing it to make me mad or something. I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Juliani`s mother says she had filed a temporary restraining order in the past, but never thought he was capable of kidnapping her son.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I had a lot of contact with him still because he never threatened to take my son away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve spent considerable time diving in the canal, looking for a car based on a witness`s tip. We believe the suspect drove the car into the canal with little Juliani inside.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t know what happened! I just want him back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: All right, we are getting some news coming into the newsroom right now that a large object, an additional large object has been just picked up in the canal that they have been searching in. It is sonar that is detecting that object. It is about one mile from the previous cars that have been taken out.

For the very latest on all of today`s activities, let`s go out to Debra Mark, anchor with Talk Radio 790 KABC. Debra, what is the latest?

DEBRA MARK, TALK RADIO 790 KABC: Well, we don`t know exactly what that object is. So we will, hopefully, be getting that information soon. A third car, though, before this object was detected, was pulled out of the canal, and it was not the suspect`s car. So again, the latest information is that sonar has detected about a mile from where the suspect`s car reportedly went into the canal -- has been detected, but again, we don`t know if it`s a car. We do know that it is a large object.

CASAREZ: Now, Debra Mark, what took authorities to this canal? Because this little boy was allegedly kidnapped by the ex-boyfriend of Tabitha Cardenas, who is the mother of the child. Why did they go to the canal?

MARK: Well, there`s a statewide Amber Alert. So we`re looking for a 2003 Toyota Corolla. And a migrant farm worker knew what that description was and told authorities that he saw a car matching that description plunge into the canal. And so authorities believe that right now, that`s a credible tip.

CASAREZ: All right. And a third car was found today. They thought that that third car might be the one that they are looking for. And we don`t want them to find a car in the canal. We don`t want that because that means that possibly this little boy is deceased. But what happened during that search of that third car? It was just pulled out minutes ago, right?

MARK: It was pulled out just minutes ago. And authorities said, Nope, does not match the description of the suspect`s vehicle, which again is a Toyota Corolla. So right now, we`re just waiting to hear and see what that large object is that has just been found just minutes ago, I should say, detected just minutes ago in the canal.

CASAREZ: By that sonar. And everybody, we are trying to find 4-year- old -- there he is right there -- Juliani Cardenas. He is only 4 years old, Hispanic male, 3-foot-6, only 40 pounds.

I want to go out to the sheriff of Stanislaus County, who is joining us tonight, Sheriff Adam Christianson. Thank you so much. What is this that sonar just detected minutes ago in the canal?

SHERIFF ADAM CHRISTIANSON, STANISLAUS COUNTY (via telephone): Well, the side- scanning sonar technology we`re using from the Merced County Sheriff`s Department has detected yet another large object in the canal. As you mentioned, we`re about a mile south of the original dive operation location. And we`re in the process now of setting up a drag operation. We`re going to drag and snag the object and then we`re going to dive on that to determine what it is.

CASAREZ: Wow. Are you going to do that tonight?

CHRISTIANSON: Yes, we are. We`re in the process right now of setting that operation up because we simply don`t want to quit. We`re going to do everything we can to bring little Juliani home. We want to bring him home safely, but we have to absolutely clear this canal and make sure that there is nothing here.

CASAREZ: So explain to us exactly what this drag operation is. What are your divers and your operational force going to do?

CHRISTIANSON: Well, right now, we`ve got two large trucks that have a line strung across the canal, with weights that run to the bottom, 17 feet. And then they drag that downstream until they snag the object. At that point, we know where it`s at definitively, and then we set up a dive operation and we dive on that object to determine what it is.

CASAREZ: All right, everybody, we are taking your calls live tonight. Sheriff Adam Christianson has been kind enough to join us, the sheriff of Stanislaus County in California. Sheriff, I want to ask you, the original tipster that came forward saying, Look, I think I saw a car that matches the car of Jose Rodriguez go into that canal -- did he believe he saw people in that car?

CHRISTIANSON: Yes, he did. It`s a farm worker who`s very familiar with the area. He`s a credible witness, an older gentleman in his late 50s. And he did see the car being driven into the canal.

CASAREZ: So obviously, my sense tells me he`s correct because he didn`t see people pushing the car in, that were standing outside of the car.

CHRISTIANSON: He reported a man and a boy in the car driven into the canal, and all of his statements are credible and the evidence that we`ve found at the scene so far corroborate his statement. And that`s why we`re certain that -- unfortunately, we`re certain that we`re going to find the car. At this point, all of our other tips and leads, everything we`ve followed up on has been unfounded. We continue to get tips and leads, follow up on them all, but all of the evidence leads us here. The tips and leads are not leading us in any other direction.

CASAREZ: Let`s go out to Christine Connolly. She`s a reporter with CNN affiliate KRON. She is at the canal right now in Patterson (ph), California. Christine, what are you seeing?

CHRISTINE CONNOLLY, KRON CORRESPONDENT: So right now, what`s happening is they are looking at that object, and this is about a mile away from where we are, a mile south. I`m going to step out of the way here so we can show you the canal. This is where they have been focusing their search. Earlier today, they were looking up against this concrete wall here, worried that there could possibly be a car that was stuck in that area. They pulled out a car from this area. It`s actually the third car that they have found in this canal. It did not turn out to be the suspect`s car.

That was very disheartening for the crews here that have been working throughout the day. And once that occurred, that`s when they put the sonar equipment in this canal and they began searching south. And again, they`re about a mile south now, and that`s where they discovered this object. Basically, they`re just telling us that it`s a big object that they`ve discovered in the canal, and what they`re going to do very soon is put a diver down in the canal. They`re going to have two tow trucks on either side of the canal with a -- with a pulley attached to them. And the driver -- and the diver will use that to go down and get to the object and get a closer look at exactly what it is they`re dealing with.

But we don`t know what it is. You know, they found, again, three different cars, pieces of concrete. So it could be anything at this point.

CASAREZ: And everybody, as the sheriff of Stanislaus county has told us, that drag and pull operation is beginning right now as this show is airing. They are not quitting. They are going to try to find out what sonar has described as a large object.

I want to go tonight to a very special guest with us. We have Tabitha Cardenas. She is the mother of Juliani Cardenas, who authorities are trying very, very hard to find. And they want to find him alive. Tabitha, thank you for joining us.

TABITHA CARDENAS, MOTHER: Thank you for having me. What is the...

CASAREZ: You are so welcome.

CARDENAS: I really appreciate it.

CASAREZ: You`re welcome. What is the latest that law enforcement has told you?

CARDENAS: The latest that I`ve heard was on the third car that they found and that it was silver. But I mean, my hopes are high that they`re not -- they`re not going to find Jose`s car in the canal.

CASAREZ: Right. Now, Jose has relatives in the area. It sound like he has a lot of relatives. Have you spoken with them? Have they seen him? Have they heard from him?

CARDENAS: I have spoken with all of his relatives -- a lot of his relatives. And none of them have seen him or heard from him.

CASAREZ: You know, I want to ask you, when he traditionally -- you knew him so well. When he would make purchases in the convenience store, in the market, would he pay for -- with cash or credit card, debit card? Would he go to ATMs?

CARDENAS: He uses cash sometimes, and he uses -- mostly from what I`ve seen lately, it`s been ATM.

CASAREZ: Would he keep a large amount of cash on him so he wouldn`t have to go to a bank?

CARDENAS: I`ve never seen him keep a large amount of cash on him.

CASAREZ: All right. I want to go to the sheriff, Adam Christianson, Stanislaus County. Has there been any ATM activity, any transaction with a credit or debit card from Jose Rodriguez?

CHRISTIANSON: No, not at all. As a matter of fact, no electronic signature of any kind, including either cell phone or anything else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s been convicted of violent crimes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He would confide in me that sometimes he hears voices in his head.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a chance that the boy is still alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, everyone (ph), bring my grandson back!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you going to take care of him, Jose? You know, you don`t have that much money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: A little 4-year-old boy missing just near Modesto, Stanislaus County, California. Take a look.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juliani is the name of the little boy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A frantic mom begging for the return of her 4- year-old little boy, who was snatched from his grandmother`s arms.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tabitha says Jose Rodriguez lost control when they broke up, and she believes that`s what spurred him to take Juliani.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just -- I didn`t want to hear it. I don`t want to know what happened! I just want him back!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Someone told police that they saw a car that looked like the suspect`s drive into a canal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can only hope that we don`t find that car and that we continue our efforts to find him alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, I need him home! I know Juliani is telling you that he misses me and that he wants to come home and he needs - - you need to bring him home!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace. We have just learned that sonar in the canal that a witness said they believed they saw a silver car being driven into two days ago -- this sonar has just found a large object one mile away from where the witness says that car went in. A drag and pull operation is beginning to take place right now to retrieve that -- what is believed to be a vehicle.

I want to go out back again to Christine Connolly. So is a reporter for KRON television out of California. She`s at Patterson, at the canal. Christine, here`s what I want to ask you. One mile is a long ways away, really, from where that car would have gone in. How much of a current is in that canal, and would a vehicle go a mile down the way?

CONNOLLY: You know, it is very possible. It`s a very strong current in this canal, so strong that they earlier couldn`t even put a diver down because they were worried about how swift it is in certain areas. So it is possible that a car could maybe go down that far.

But another thing that we do need to bring up is that they, again, have found three cars in this canal. This canal, though, is a very common dumping ground, we found out from authorities. They`ve done training in this area and they say literally that there could be hundreds of cars in this very long canal because it is a common area where people come to dump cars. So it wasn`t surprising for them to find these vehicles.

But again, they said that they would search with the sonar equipment as far as they thought the car could travel, and they were going to go even further than the location that they are now. So I guess the authorities do believe that it could possibly have gone that far.

CASAREZ: All right. Let`s go out to the callers. Elaine in Illinois. Hi, Elaine.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. I think you are great. I think you work too much, but...

(LAUGHTER)

CASAREZ: That`s what my mother says! But I love what I do. Thank you for calling, Elaine. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, well, I was going to ask if they were for sure that this was, you know, a positive ID on the car. But what I really want to say is something to the mother. I`m going to -- I want her to know that we`re praying. We all are praying. And hopefully, he just gets his senses back and realizes that`s not the way he`s going to get her back and please to bring the baby home.

CASAREZ: Thank you so much, Elaine. Tabitha, I`m sure you heard that. And our thoughts and prayers are with you. What you are going through, we can`t even imagine. If you are -- if your -- Jose Rodriguez and your little boy, if they`re somewhere holed up watching television tonight, what`s the message you have for Jose Rodriguez?

CARDENAS: I want to tell Jose that he needs to make sure that he`s feeding my son and that he has enough to drink. And he can`t be driving around with him drunk. And he`s -- I mean, Jose, you`re all out of money. Come on. You need to take Juliani to a hospital. Leave him at a gas station. I don`t care where you leave him, just leave him somewhere and say, Hey, call his mom, you know, he`s the missing kid, and just take off. You know, I don`t care where he goes. I just want my son back.

CASAREZ: When Juliani was staying with your grand -- your mother that day, he was staying home from school because he didn`t feel well. How sick was he?

CARDENAS: I`m sorry. It`s Juliani.

CASAREZ: Juliani. I`m sorry.

CARDENAS: Yes. yes. He just had a little cough, but he had the cough for about three days already.

CASAREZ: OK. So he didn`t have a fever or anything?

CARDENAS: No, no. When I had taken him to the doctor, he had a virus, but then the doctor said it would just go away by itself. And the only thing he had was a cough.

CASAREZ: Tabitha, where do you think they are right now? What do you believe?

CARDENAS: I believe they are either in Merced County, Stanislaus County or San Joaquin county, one of these three, because he -- Jose is not very far.

CASAREZ: And why do you say those three counties?

CARDENAS: Because he doesn`t have any -- too much money.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The grandmother says he forced his way into the house, pushed her to the floor and snatched the child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When I came home, I found out that he was abducted.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bring my grandson back!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A desperate plea from the grandmother of 4-year- old Juliani Cardenas. Investigators say 27-year-old Jose Rodriguez snatched the child from the grandmother at her home in broad daylight.

CARDENAS: I want to say to bring him -- Juliani back because he needs to be with his mom.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He forced his way into the house, pushed her to the floor and snatched the child.

CARDENAS: Jose, if you`re watching this, Juliani needs to come home. He doesn`t need to be with you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight.

Let`s go to the sheriff of Stanislaus County, Adam Christianson, who has just told us that the sonar has found a large object in the canal. Divers are not going home at this late hour. They are going to continue to retrieve this object. Sheriff, where are we now in that process?

CHRISTIANSON: We`re in the process of setting up the dive operation right now. We`ve located the object, snagged it, marked it. And as soon as the divers are in the water, we hope to determine what it is.

CASAREZ: How deep is that canal, and how deep is the vehicle, if you know?

CHRISTIANSON: The canal is 17 feet deep. The car, or what we believe to be a car at this point, a large object, is sitting on the bottom. So remember, this canal runs at about 4,000 cubic feet per second. The water is very cold, very fast. And so this operation has to be done with extreme caution.

CASAREZ: Wow. So this drag and pull operation that you`re going to do -- you`re just about ready to begin it right now, right? Because you say you have the car hooked.

CHRISTIANSON: Well, we believe it`s a car. It`s a large enough object to be a car. We won`t know for sure until we get a diver in the water, and that`s what they are setting up right now, the dive operation. We`ve got the object snagged with the tow truck. That provides stability for the tether lines for the divers, and then they`ll go in the water.

CASAREZ: All right, and everybody, what they are looking for is a silver Toyota Corolla, California plates 6HBW-445 with oversized black rims, a small spare tire on the right front. That is the vehicle that Jose Rodriguez was driving when he allegedly kidnapped this little boy, Juliani Cardenas, 4 years old.

Let`s go to Deborah in Oregon. Hi, Deborah.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. Part of my question was answered as to if the father has been -- the father`s family -- I`m sorry -- has been spoken to. But the question is, why did he take his son?

CASAREZ: The motivation for all of this. I think that`s a great question. Let`s go out to Tabitha Cardenas, who is the mother of Juliani, with us tonight. What was, do you think, the motivation for doing this? Did he want the child and want to have custody of the child himself?

CARDENAS: Yes, I think so.

CASAREZ: So that would tell us that he would want the child to live.

CARDENAS: Yes. Yes. Either that or revenge.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Snatched from the grandmother`s arms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He took it to the extreme.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wrestled the boy away from his grandmother. Then just took off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just does bad things, you know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Esteban Rodriguez.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police believe the little boy is in danger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Little Juliani Cardenas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How you`re going to take care of him? You need to make sure that my son is eating. You need to make that he`s drinking his fluids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searches have not turned up anything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I just want him back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rodriguez`s mother fears the worst.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her little boy was taken.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s 3`6", weighs about 40 pounds, brown eyes, black hair, last seen wearing dark pants and a light blue shirt.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juliani needs to come home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: We are learning right now that drag and pull operation in the canal close to Modesto is just about to begin. Sonar at this late hour has found a large object. Divers are not going home.

They are going to continue to the -- do the search at this hour to see if that large object is a vehicle and to furthermore see if the vehicle would have in it Juliani Cardenas and Jose Rodriguez.

I want to go out to Marc Klaas, founder of Klaaskids Foundation. Marc, your thoughts?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Jean, first of all, I hope that Tabitha doesn`t go home with grief in her heart tonight.

Remember back in 1995, Susan Smith drove a vehicle into a still lake in Union, South Carolina, with her two sons in the back seat. And it still took the authorities about two days to locate and retrieve that vehicle.

So retrieving a vehicle, a particular vehicle from a body of water is a very difficult thing to do, at best.

CASAREZ: That`s right and a very dangerous thing.

KLAAS: Absolutely, yes. No, this is a very, very dangerous mission. Now I was told by somebody close to the case that there was a spare tire on this car. I don`t know if that`s true or not.

Perhaps Tabitha or the sheriff can confirm that, but it`s also right off of Highway 5 and Highway 5 is about 450 miles straight down to Mexico. So if they aren`t in the canal, the possibility exists that he could have gone down to Mexico.

One would hope that the authorities down there had the flyer. It`s also a straight shot to the San Francisco bay area, both San Francisco and San Jose.

And, quite frankly, this guy could have gone almost anywhere if, in fact, he`s not in the -- if, in fact, he`s not in the canal. So I think there`s still room for hope and I hope that this turns out not to be them and that they are found safe some place.

CASAREZ: Marc Klaas, I agree with you 100 percent. We did look into that Mexico aspect because that was my thought also. There are relatives in Mexico, but Jose Rodriguez has not had contact with them in probably 15 to 20 years.

I want to go to Ellie Jostad, Nancy Grace producer. What about the car because Marc Klaas is right. It had some very unusual tires, unusual rims on that vehicle.

ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. That`s right. This is that silver Corolla. It does have large black rims and there`s a spare tire that they believe now this is a tire smaller than all the other tires.

And it`s on the right front wheel of that car so it should be very distinctive, easy to pick out if somebody were to see this car on the road.

CASAREZ: That`s exactly right. Sheba in Illinois. Good evening, Sheba.

CALLER: Hi, Jane -- or -- sorry, dear, messed your name up again. My question is, this drainage ditch or water thing, isn`t this one of the things that Californians get some of their water from to -- whatever, wash clothes, take a bath, drink?

Wouldn`t it be kind of sensible to let divers practice in there with the fire department occasionally and pull out cars and objects and then know that you have certain sections cleared? If this is a known dumping ground, I mean, they may find other bodies in some cars.

CASAREZ: Sheba, from what I understand, this is an irrigation canal that goes to the farmers in this area. This is a very, very rural agricultural area where so much of the food of our country is actually grown.

To Michael Gast, the founder and trainer of the National Academy Of Police Diving, how dangerous is an operation like this? And I understand training them in waters like this could be a good idea. But what they are beginning to do right now, this drag and pull, what are the concerns for the safety of the divers?

MICHAEL GAST, FOUNDER AND TRAINER, NATIONAL ACADEMY OF POLICE DIVING: Well, whenever you have a circumstance like this, you want to have a reference and a control. What they are doing by dragging that line until it snags a car is giving a diver a hard point and a reference to where they are going to look.

That way the divers aren`t to the susceptibility of the current. Also the strength of the current is indicative on how much the divers can accomplish while in the water. Usually over one knot is going to be difficult.

CASAREZ: Are they going to have to take this car and pull it up 17 feet out of the water or will they take lights to go down to see if it is that silver Corolla down 17 feet?

GAST: Well, that would depend on the water because it`s moving so fast. You may not have any visibility. If you have visibility, even six inches or a foot, you`d be able to see the driver`s tag on the rear of the car or the doughnut shaped wheel on the right front or the type of car it is before you have to pull it out.

CASAREZ: To Sheriff Adam Christianson of Stanislaus County joining us tonight, do you know, Sheriff, if they will have to literally drag and pull it up to look at it or can they take lights down at this late hour to see if it is a silver Corolla?

SHERIFF ADAM CHRISTIANSON, STANISLAUS COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Your expert is correct. It`s not a drag and pull. It`s just a drag and we`ve established a solitary anchor point for the divers. The water is moving at about 1.5 knots. It`s 4,000 cubic feet per second.

This particular Delta Mendota canal does, in fact, supply agricultural water, but it also transports water to southern California for domestic use. It`s a very large canal, not a drainage ditch.

And at this point, they are at about five feet of depth. It`s zero visibility. So the divers will be working by feel. They`ll connect a line to the car and then the tow trucks will whisk the car out of the canal.

CASAREZ: To Detective Lieutenant Steven Rogers joining us tonight from the Nutley, New Jersey Police Department. You served on the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force coming to us from New York tonight.

Although the search efforts right now at this hour focused on that canal because of what sonar has detected, the foot officers cannot stop their search for Jose Rodriguez and this little boy to be alive, correct?

DET. LT. STEVEN ROGERS, NUTLEY NJ POLICE DEPARTMENT, FORMER MEMBER, FBI JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: That`s correct. First of all, I have to commend that sheriff for the extraordinary determination and work they are doing and part of that work is what you said, Jean.

Those officers are out on the highways looking for the car. You mentioned Mexico. I`m sure they`re communicating with Mexican police. Although he`s bearing most of his resources in that canal, those cops are out there still searching, still looking.

And everyone listening and watching tonight need to do the same thing, be the extended ears and eyes of the police and give them the tips they need.

CASAREZ: That`s right and everybody look at this picture. This is Juliani Cardenas, 4 years old, Hispanic male. He`s 3`6" tall, 40 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. He was last seen wearing a light blue zip-up fleece shirt, his little black sweatpants, his light-up spider-man shoes.

And he was last seen on Tuesday, just a couple of days ago, about 4:12 in the afternoon was where he was abducted from his grandmother`s house, Patterson, California, about 17 miles away from Modesto. Darisha in South Carolina. Hi, Darisha.

CALLER: Hey, how are you doing?

CASAREZ: Fine. Thank you for calling.

CALLER: OK, my question is how did he know like where the child was at? Is the grandmother always someone that watch him?

CASAREZ: OK. Good question. To Tabitha Cardenas joining us tonight. Jose Rodriguez has actually gone to his school first that day right? It wasn`t your mother`s house, although he went to your house early the morning.

TABITHA CARDENAS, MOM OF ABDUCTED 4-YEAR-OLD TOT; FROM HOME WHERE 4- YEAR-OLD SON KIDNAPPED: Yes, he did.

CASAREZ: Tabitha, can you hear me?

CARDENAS: Yes, yes. He came to my house about 7:00 in the morning. I told him he needed to leave and then he came by my house after I went to work.

And he actually came in the house and told my mom that he just came to say bye to Juliani and my mom pushed him out. He left and I believe he went to the school later in the day and then about 4:00 he came back to my house and that`s when he took my son.

CASAREZ: When he first came in the morning, did he say at all why he was there? I mean, was it routine? Did he usually come that time in the morning?

CARDENAS: No. He didn`t. He didn`t usually come to my house that nearly the morning. He didn`t say anything either.

CASAREZ: What do you think he meant when he said -- when he said that he came to say goodbye? What do you think he meant by that?

CARDENAS: I don`t know. I really don`t know.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jose Rodriguez is caught on a video surveillance tape.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently showing Rodriguez buying a little beer before this little guy disappeared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think they are -- I`m hoping right now he`s got him in a nice warm bed asleep.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Authorities are beginning the drag operation right now to see what sonar has picked up as a large object in this canal that is in Patterson, California. Very close to Modesto. Very close to where little Juliani was allegedly kidnapped by Jose Rodriguez.

Witnesses say they believe they saw that car go into the canal 45 minutes after this little boy was taken. I want to go out to Dr. Radha Mikkilineni, doctor of Internal Medicine. Joining us tonight from Washington, D.C.

If, in fact, this operation would conclude that this little boy is in one of these vehicles, how preserved is a body when it is in water and for relatively a short period of time?

DR. RADHA MIKKILINENI, INTERNAL MEDICINE: Well, the bottom line is that the fact that the water is cold and the timing of the last several days means the body is probably fairly well preserved relative to decomposition on the land, but decomposition probably has already started.

In general, you can say that decomposition probably takes a bit -- double the time in the water than it does on the land. That being said, some changes in the bodies are still going to be present, such as maceration of the skin and swelling. It`s almost certain, though, that these two people would not have survived.

CASAREZ: All right, to the lawyers, Joey Jackson, defense attorney out of New York and John Manuelian, defense attorney coming to us from Los Angeles.

Joey Jackson, let`s look at the facts here. If this little boy is found in the vehicle that sonar has spotted and is being dragged right now, there`s not going to be a prosecution unless Jose Rodriguez is not in the vehicle. Isn`t that a possibility?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let`s say this, Jean. Let`s hope for the best. I give certainly the police department a lot of credit for what they are doing. The mother is strong.

So, you know what, Jean, at the end of the day you can look at kidnapping. You can look at reckless endangerment. Let`s hope there are charges levels against him because that would mean he`s alive and well and that would also mean that the boy is safe, hopefully.

And so, therefore, as a defense attorney, you never advocate for charges, but I have to tell you if there was a case to advocate, tonight would be it because it would mean he would be alive and well.

CASAREZ: So right. John Manuelian, defense lawyer, you know, we`re all watching this drag operation as it`s going on right now outside of Modesto, divers in the canal. We don`t want them to find anything.

And I don`t think we should foreclose the fact that they may be on land, that they may be survivable. What does that mean need to do tonight if he has this little boy?

JOHN MANUELIAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I would recommend that he contact the authorities, contact a lawyer. Have the lawyer be the liaison to getting back Juliani Cardenas to his mom and the lawyer should start working on negotiating with the authorities for possibly a lesser sentence because of his cooperation. So Mr. Rodriguez, if he`s listening to this program, it would be in his best interest to do that now than make matters worse.

CASAREZ: Or just drop him off somewhere. Leave him at a -- outside a convenience store where people are going to walk, or outside of a hospital door. Do that. Do that tonight.

Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, coming to us from New York. What is Tabitha Cardenas going through tonight because she is having to live and listen and wonder if this latest vehicle found through sonar could have her little boy.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, she`s, obviously, poised between hope and terror, and she is a strong lady. Just the fact that she can be on this show is a form of her taking action.

She knows Jose Rodriguez, we don`t. We can speculate. And I would think that when she said his motives could have been he just wanted Juliani because maybe he felt that was the only person in the world that he loved or was with him as he was cutting off his ties from work and so forth or revenge. I would put my money on his attachment to Juliani to hope that he`s not dead.

CASAREZ: All right. Very good thought, actually. To Tabitha Cardenas, you`re actually are going to have a baby yourself in a couple of months and this is Jose`s child, right?

CARDENAS: Yes, that`s correct.

CASAREZ: When did you break up with him and what was the argument or -- I think you`ve described it as abuse that happened to you on that final night.

CARDENAS: He had pushed me and he choked me. And this was like a little bit over six months ago and that`s why I left him.

CASAREZ: Are you concerned for violence that could be done toward your son since you have seen violence from him yourself?

CARDENAS: No, because he`s never done this to my son. He has hit me in front of my son, but he`s never done it -- done anything to hurt him.

CASAREZ: All right. To Lakisha in Indiana. Hi, Lakisha.

CALLER: Hi. Yes, my prayers go out to the mother. Stay strong and everybody is praying for you around the world. I know how you feel. But I have several questions to ask tonight, Jean.

Her earlier comment was that he didn`t have no money to keep running with her son. Does he have family that he can get money from or family out of state where he can get money from or even wired to him?

And then my next question was, I wanted to know if they put it out an amber alert so everybody can know that the little boy is missing?

CASAREZ: Yes, an amber alert has been issued in California. Lakisha, it`s a great question. He does have family. They could give him cash, you`re right, but then you have people harboring a criminal.

And now to tonight`s "CNN Heroes."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK?

Every week I talk to women who are sleeping outside. It`s only 17 degrees out, so I didn`t want you to get frozen.

There`s so much pain and suffering right on the fringes pain and suffering right on the fringes of our perspective. Do you need some help, Hon? In Boston, despite all the medical resources for the homeless population, I was seeing very few of the women using the services.

For women who are poor, homeless, or battered, to deal with a system of health care becomes overwhelming. They don`t have an address. They don`t have a phone. There are lots of emotional issues, psychiatric issues. I just didn`t like the idea they were falling through the cracks.

I`m Dr. Rosanna Means. I bring free high quality medical care to women and children in the shelters of Boston. The women come into the shelters to get warm, to feel safe and we`re there. Come on in, Ellen. There`s no registration, we aren`t charging anything.

If they want to come see us, we`ll use that moment to try to build a relationship. This is my safety net right here.

Women learn to trust us as ambassadors as the health care system. Honey, God bless. Over time, we can teach them to use the system as it was intended and eventually they move forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because I knew she really cared, I started to want to take care of myself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love these women no matter what.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re doing a great job.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It starts to get taken inside, that if I matter to somebody else, maybe I matter to myself.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Now a look back at the stories making the headlines this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello, my name is Billie. My boyfriend and I broke up yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is his name?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His name is Shawn Atkins. He`s telling me that he`s going to kill me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have the police affidavit right here. Atkins alleged to have threatened to kill Billie Jean Dunn and Hailey Dunn during the dispute.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: First, of course, I never would have thought he could have anything to do with Hailey`s disappearance or could ever hurt her.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seems like Billie`s in denial. It seems like she hasn`t wrapped herself around the truth at this point in time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please, everyone, bring my grandson back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A desperate plea from the grandmother of 4-year- old Juliani Cardenas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What can we tell our viewers so they can help us find this little boy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There`s always hope that we`re going to find little Juliani alive somewhere and looking for that tip or that lead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for missing 13-year-old Hailey Dunn continues near a landfill. This is in rural Texas.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They have come back to revisit this local landfill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This isn`t the first search at this landfill.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Let me get this straight. They brought out cadaver dogs. You`re sure they`re cadaver dogs?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Blood evidence. Checked his truck and any other place they suspected she would be. They were looking for blood evidence, DNA.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Tonight, let us stop to remember Army First Sergeant Alan Gifford, 39 years old from Tallahassee, Florida. Killed in Iraq. He was awarded the bronze star and two purple hearts. He loved traveling and hunting and cooking and even sports, of course.

He was remembered as a great leader and a mentor. He never met a stranger. He leaves behind his parents, Douglas and Petdigla, stepmother Susan, brothers Andre and Anthony. Widow, Beth, and son, Mitchell. Alan Gifford, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests, for you being at home. Thank you so much for seeing us tonight. We`ll see you tomorrow, 8:00 sharp Eastern, until then, good night, everybody.

END