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NANCY GRACE

Child`s Burned Body Found in Ditch in Houston

Aired December 28, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: We begin tonight with breaking news out of Houston, Texas. Police have discovered the badly burned remains of a young child, reportedly naked, the body partially concealed in a drainage ditch. Police are saying the small child`s body was burned beyond recognition at another location and then just dumped, dumped to the side of the road in a ditch. Is this gruesome discovery the body of missing 12-year-old Jonathan, last seen on Christmas Eve?

And the investigation into the disappearance of a 12-year-old boy intensifies, both of his parents just taken in for questioning and their car towed by law enforcement. Police believe somebody abducted the 5th grader from the neighborhood. Where is 12-year-old Jonathan Foster?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Live to Houston, Texas. A 12-year-old little boy just vanishes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Children don`t vanish.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have the body of a small child. The body is completely burned right now. We have no indication whether this is going to be related.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was supposed to run home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police (INAUDIBLE) timeline.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And go back to the baby-sitter`s.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve lost an incredible amount of time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And apparently, he never made it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re going to look at the person that last saw him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve heard so many conflicting stories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The boy`s stepdad reportedly saw Foster at his home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s a lot of confusion here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have reports that perhaps (INAUDIBLE) baby- sitter last (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is 12-year-old Jonathan Foster?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: Good evening. I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV network, in for Nancy Grace. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. We are live with breaking news this evening. Out of sight for less than a half an hour, a 12-year-old little boy vanishes on Christmas Eve. Police have just found a small, little child`s body burned beyond recognition in a ditch.

Let us go straight out to Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH Newsradio in Houston. Joe, we understand the FBI has now joined the case. What`s the latest tonight?

JOE GOMEZ, KTRH NEWSRADIO: Jean, nobody expected the discovery that was made today. Only a few miles away from where little Jonathan Foster was reported missing on Christmas Eve, investigators have found the badly burned and naked body of a child in a drainage ditch. Right now, this body is so burned that police don`t know -- they cannot identify who it belongs to. But right now, many are expecting the worst.

Little Jonathan was reported missing on Christmas Eve. It`s been four days. They`ve found no traces of evidence. They`ve scoured the area nearby where he was reported missing. This is the first piece of evidence in this desperate search for little Jonathan, Jean.

CASAREZ: And the remains of this little body, burned beyond recognition, are at the Harris County Forensic Science Center tonight for autopsy. But to Joe Gomez. We understand that this little person burned was found actually three-and-a-half miles from where Jonathan Foster went missing. What more can you tell us about this little body? I mean, was it wrapped in a bag, in a blanket? What was it...

GOMEZ: Well, police...

(CROSSTALK)

GOMEZ: Investigators found no clothing whatsoever. Maybe the clothing was burnt off when whomever decided to burn this poor child, took action. Right now, police can find no traces of any sort of burn marks near the crime scene. So they suspect that whoever did this must have did these dreadful actions beforehand -- i.e., burned the body -- and then dumped it somewhere just carelessly to the side of the road.

As I mentioned, they can`t identify it because it`s been so badly burned. But searchers continuing to search for Jonathan Foster cannot help but think, Is this it? Has the poor little Jonathan Foster who vanished on Christmas Eve -- has he met this dreadful end?

CASAREZ: So to Michael Board, reporter, WOAI radio out of San Antonio, Texas, tonight. What we`re understanding is that this little burned body in a ditch literally was without clothing, without a blanket, just thrown into a ditch.

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSRADIO (via telephone): And while many want this to be Jonathan or maybe, hopefully, an end to this case to figure out what happened here, there are some signs that this may not be Jonathan. Now, what we know about the body that was found in the ditch is that it was three feet tall. We know Jonathan is closer to five feet tall. So unless, you know, the -- when you burn a body, it takes about two feet off of you. It -- signs are showing that this may not be Jonathan, that, you know, it might be a miracle. Jonathan might still be alive.

CASAREZ: And that would be a Christmas miracle. To Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us from Los Angeles. Police are saying at this point that it appears as though that the burned remains were three feet long, and we know Jonathan Foster, 4- feet-7 to 5 feet. When a body is burned, does it lose height like that?

HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DPTY. MEDICAL EXAMINER: The body will lose a slight bit of height from contraction of the issues, but not that much loss of height. From the sounds of things -- they said approximately three feet tall. They could have simply measured the body to find out exactly how tall it is.

CASAREZ: And Doctor, I want to ask...

OLIVER: It would only lose a few inches.

CASAREZ: Right. Well, that`s interesting. I want to ask you -- the body is now at the Forensic Science Center in Harris County, Houston, Texas. What does it take to perform an autopsy on a little body burned beyond recognition?

OLIVER: It`s fairly simple. Usually, the organs retain their consistency. You can tell pretty much what the cause of death is at that point. The skin and the subcutaneous tissue will burn to being in a state of being charred, but the organs of the body usually are maintained, and you can tell if they`ve sustained any injuries. The bones, of course, will still be intact. You can tell if they sustained any bony injury or any blunt force trauma. But everything should be relatively intact. It should be a fairly simple autopsy.

CASAREZ: What about determining gender? Because they can`t even say if it`s a little boy or a little girl.

OLIVER: Well, in a little girl, when -- the ovaries will still be intact inside. In a little boy, the testicles would have been burned away and the genitals would have been burned away, and that`s the reason you can`t tell the gender. But the ovaries will still be intact. If there`s still a discrepancy, you still have DNA testing to determine sex.

CASAREZ: All right. We are taking your calls live tonight. To Diane in Virginia. Good evening, Diane.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jean. How are you?

CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I have a question. I watched yesterday, and I know the first thing they always say is they like to question the people that were closest. Why didn`t the police ask for someone to -- and I know they can`t make them do this -- a lie detector from the stepfather, the mother, the baby-sitter? You know, why couldn`t they submit to a lie detector test?

CASAREZ: You`re talking about a polygraph, and that was one of the first things we asked today of police. NANCY GRACE producers spoke with them. And guess what? They will not confirm or deny that a polygraph was given to the mother or to the stepfather.

But let`s talk about the baby-sitter. To Joe Gomez, from Houston, Texas, KTRH Newsradio. Last night, we had heard, because the mother told local affiliates, that little Jonathan was at a baby-sitter`s. What do we hear today?

GOMEZ: Conflicting reports surfacing. Right now, the mother says that little Jonathan was left alone, apparently, with his stepfather. His stepfather stepped out while little Jonathan was playing video games at the apartment for 25 minutes and returned. Jonathan was missing.

The mother -- subsequently, she comes home later on, then reports that little Jonathan`s missing at around 9:30 at night. So this -- he apparently vanished somewhere in the afternoon. Then she reports that he was missing in the evening.

Between in this little time gap here, she says that she received a phone call from a mysterious person, a woman with a raspy voice. And she says that she could hear little Jonathan`s voice in the back ground. She got this call while she was at work. A lot of gaps here, Jean, and investigators are trying to plug holes in those gaps.

CASAREZ: Michael Board, WOAI Newstalk Radio in San Antonio. Wait a minute. This child went missing 1:45 to 2:00 PM Christmas Eve. Police have confirmed with us today that that 911 call made was not made until 9:30 at night.

BOARD: And amazing amount of time there. Anything could happen. And then what`s even more amazing is that they waited from Monday at 9:00 o`clock -- excuse me -- that from -- I guess that time on New Year`s Eve to Monday night to issue the Amber Alert. There`s a whole lot of time in there. We don`t know what was going on. If that Amber Alert had been issued right away in this case, that would have been a lot easier for the police to get a jump on whoever took this small child...

CASAREZ: But Michael...

BOARD: ... if that`s what happened.

CASAREZ: ... what police are saying is that there were so many inconsistencies that they didn`t know what was right and what was wrong.

BOARD: A kid is missing. A kid is missing! You`ve got to -- and there are signs that something might have happened. You`ve got to jump on this. Police will tell you time and time again time is of the essence. The sooner they get that out there -- you know, heck, in five days, that person could have gone to Oklahoma. They could have gone to Mexico. They could have gone anywhere. They should have jumped on this faster.

CASAREZ: You`re right, Michael Board from WOAI Newstalk Radio in San Antonio. You`re exactly right.

I want to go to the lawyers, Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta, Georgia, Doug Burns, defense attorney out of New York. Ray Giudice, last night, we kept talking about the baby-sitter because the mother had said the little boy was at the baby-sitter`s, left the baby- sitter`s to go get some video games, never came back. Police confirm today he was alone when he went missing.

Ray Giudice, who`s the baby-sitter, Zenaida Fernandez Gonzalez?

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, I`m not...

CASAREZ: Come on!

GIUDICE: ... so worried about finding a baby-sitter. It`s why is there such a -- not only, one, a huge inconsistency on where he was from the mom, and then as the reporter just pointed out, an eight or nine-hour gap between this mysterious phone call and dialing 911. I`ll tell you, if my 12-year-old is out of sight for eight hours, I want to know where he or she is.

CASAREZ: Doug Burns, it doesn`t look good. And even if it`s inadvertent that she says that the child was at the baby-sitter -- maybe he`s supposed to be at the baby-sitter. What you say early on and those inconsistencies can hurt your client when you`re trying to defend them later on for criminal charges.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, of course. Inconsistencies are the key that sort of unlocks a window of prosecutorial arguments about state of mind and mental intent, consciousness of guilt and those type of concepts. So the rhetorical argument is, somebody with nothing to hide is simply going to come across with a credible version, as opposed to inconsistencies. So you`re right...

CASAREZ: But Doug Burns, how do you wait eight hours -- eight hours! -- to call in on Christmas Eve that your little boy is gone?

BURNS: Well, there`s a distinction between sort of factually and what you might argue in a courtroom. Factually, it`s almost impossible to explain. In a courtroom, you`re going to argue, Look, ladies and gentlemen, she might have panicked and been so distraught, et cetera, et cetera.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a child`s body that was discovered after being dumped in a nearby ditch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Roughly maybe three feet tall.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: HPD tells us they got a call about a burned body in the 8900 block of East Hardy Road. They`re looking into whether or not it may be the body of Jonathan Foster, a 12-year-old boy who disappeared on Christmas Eve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jonathan, baby, if you can hear Granny.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Along the train tracks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m asking for y`all`s help.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Through the thick brush near Garden Oaks.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Granny loves you, little fella! Hang in there!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search for a missing boy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to find this little boy, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grows more desperate by the hour.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`ve heard one story where he was at the baby- sitter`s and then he vanished from the baby-sitter`s house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are not only suspecting foul play in this case.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard another story where he actually returned and was spotted in the home of his parents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But they are also interviewing the mother and stepfather separately.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then that his stepfather may have, in fact, been the last person that saw him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We`re looking. We`re trying our best, baby!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session," in for Nancy Grace tonight. You know, today searchers were out. They were looking everywhere, and they still are. There is still a missing persons investigation. But all of a sudden, a little burned body was found in a drainage ditch three-and-a-half miles from where this little boy, Jonathan Foster, went missing.

I want to go back out to Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH Newsradio. The mother has told authorities that there was a portable phone that was missing out of their apartment?

GOMEZ: That`s right, Jean. This makes it very interesting. I`ll tell you why. The fact that there`s a portable phone that`s missing from their apartment and the fact that the mother had apparently received some sort of emergency call once little Jonathan had apparently vanished from their home after he was left alone on Christmas Eve -- Jonathan`s mother says she was at work. She initially received an emergency call from little Jonathan, but when she got to the phone, obviously, nobody was there.

She got a second call from a woman with a raspy voice. When she answered the phone, the woman with the voice answered, and Jonathan`s mother identified her as Angela (ph). She heard then the woman ask a little boy on the phone, Is your mama`s name Angela? And the little boy said yes. And that`s when the receiver hung up. Was that the phone? We don`t know. A lot of questions remain, but clearly, this is a very -- this is a very big -- very big movement there.

CASAREZ: And police are saying that this little boy was home where he lived when he went missing, alone.

Let`s go straight out to Nally in Texas. Hi, Nally. Good evening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening, Ms. Jean. Happy new year to you.

CASAREZ: Thank you very much. What part of Texas do you live in?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Austin, Texas.

CASAREZ: Austin, Texas, all right. A little ways from Houston but same state. And you`ve got Interstate 10 going through Austin, too. OK...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we do. But you know, yesterday, when you said that -- that Amber Alert went out, I didn`t see it go on my TV. And usually, regardless if it was (INAUDIBLE) when that little baby went missing in south Texas, it showed up on our screen. And I didn`t see -- I went down 35 also after the show, and I didn`t see the Amber Alert.

CASAREZ: Right. Right. Well, that is very interesting because it`s a big state, but it was believed and it still may be that this little boy could be anywhere. What`s your question, Nally?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is this. When was the actual last time this child was seen by Granny or anybody else alive?

CASAREZ: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And this story sounds way too familiar, and it sounds like that little boy who was killed by the mother and the stepfather in Idaho.

CASAREZ: Yes. And you know what else? It sounds like a lot of cases that we cover. And you`re not going to believe -- I`m going to tell you in just a second what the mother -- distraught and crying, but what she said today on camera.

But first I want to ask Michael Board, reporter WOAI Newstalk radio, who was the last person to see this little boy?

BOARD: The last person to see little Jonathan was his stepfather, and it was the early afternoon of Christmas Eve. That`s when Jonathan left, said he was going to get a different video game to play. And we don`t know if he left first or Jonathan left first. The last person to see him was the stepfather. The stepfather is being questioned by police. He is one of -- they`re not calling him a suspect. Nobody they -- no family members are a suspect at this point, but they are being questioned by police. It tells you something.

CASAREZ: But you are so right. They are not suspects. They are not persons of interest.

But everybody, we want to show you what Jonathan Foster`s mother said about her little boy through her tears. She was crying. But she said, quote, "He`s a curious kid. He`s a pest. I mean, he`s a wonderful baby."

To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation, coming to us tonight from San Francisco. What are your thoughts on that statement?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION (via telephone): Well, before I get to that statement, I`d like to address the idea that all Amber Alert -- about Amber Alerts in Texas. Texas is a huge state, and not every Amber Alert is issued statewide. So that might answer that lady`s question.

I don`t believe that -- I can understand -- I can understand why there was a problem issuing an Amber Alert. Children are kidnapped by sexual predators or revenge or on very rare occasions for ransom. And in this particular case, given the fact that somebody -- a woman with a raspy voice called up, seems to me that it doesn`t fit any of those scenarios. And there has not been a ransom call made.

Therefore, with the inconsistencies from the family, this becomes an incredibly confusing case, and I think that law enforcement was probably prudent in holding off because I think that the answer to this case -- and this is consistent, perhaps, with the mother`s statement, as well -- might be a lot closer to home, rather than far away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is 12-year-old Jonathan Foster?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are desperately searching this evening.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where is Jonathan Foster?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s very bizarre, the situation surrounding his disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m asking for y`all`s help.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So many conflicting stories.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We need to find this little boy, please.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why are there conflicting reports from family?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was supposed to run home.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Conflicting reports.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And go back to the baby-sitter`s.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Conflicting reports.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And apparently, he never made it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: We are getting a word in right now from CNN affiliate KHOU in Houston that police at this hour are interviewing what may be an alleged baby-sitter, someone that may have taken care of Jonathan Foster, at least at some point, even though they have confirmed with us that he was alone in his own apartment when he disappeared, or as they say, kidnapped. They believe he was kidnapped.

I want to go on to Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective, joining us out of New York. Now, the remains that were found this afternoon were three feet, and we know that Jonathan Foster was 4-feet-7 to 5 feet.

BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE: Correct.

CASAREZ: So there are other missing children, we believe, in the Houston area, and this could be someone else.

MAJESKI: Sure. That`s a huge problem. If that is not Jonathan, then it is another child.

CASAREZ: Right.

MAJESKI: Are there other children in that geographic area that are missing? But there`s another -- there are so many inconsistencies in this story. If any mother out there would have received a call from a stranger and they were -- it was brought to their attention that their son was with that stranger, what`s the next thing that person would do? They should be picking up the phone and calling the police. I don`t understand the strong -- or long delay in that telephone conversation, and then calling the police. The whole situation is a ridiculous situation. It makes little to no sense.

CASAREZ: No sense of urgency, is what you`re saying.

MAJESKI: Absolutely.

CASAREZ: No sense of urgency at all. Now, how easy or difficult will it be to trace these calls that are being told to law enforcement were made?

MAJESKI: It depends on the company that the call was made through. If it was a recorded message or if it`s a computer bank, it may be easy to be able to find out where the call emanated from. But if it went through a central trunk line, it may be a little bit more difficult. But that`s something I`m sure the police are working on as we speak to try to find out. But hopefully, that they will -- they will be able to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Minutes after he disappeared, his mother received a desperate phone call at work from somebody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then somebody just hangs up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Watch your babies closely! Don`t let them out of your sight!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Gone on Christmas Eve.

DAVID DAVIS, JONATHAN FOSTER`S STEPFATHER: Doing good in school. Just really excited about Christmas.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He was looking forward to receiving Christmas gifts.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Angela Davis can hardly stand up. Leaning on her husband David for support, she tries to talk about her son Jonathan Foster. He`s been missing since Christmas Eve. And no one knows what happened to the 12-year-old.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say little Jonathan Foster was potentially kidnapped from his quiet neighborhood on Christmas Eve.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Searchers combed this nearby park looking for any sign of the middle-schooler. They and Jonathan`s family say they won`t stop looking until he`s found.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking for him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all want him home safe.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

JEAN CASAREZ, GUEST HOST: I`m Jean Casarez of "In Session" on the truTV Network in for Nancy Grace tonight.

Well, police, the FBI, searchers en masse continue to try to find little Jonathan Foster. A burned little body was found today during the course of the day in a drainage ditch in Houston, Texas.

I want to go out to Joe Gomez in Houston, Texas, live, reporter with KTRH Newsradio. Who found this little burned body?

JOE GOMEZ, REPORTER, KTRH NEWSRADIO: Well, Jean, apparently it was a passerby who thought it was debris. That`s how badly this body was burned. I mean, police still can`t identify it. They can`t identify if it was a male or a female because his body was just so badly charred.

But investigators did find the burned body of a child in a drainage ditch a few miles away from where Jonathan Foster was reported missing -- Jonathan Foster reported missing on Christmas Eve.

Right now investigators are trying not to think the worst but the fact that a child`s body was discovered while Jonathan Foster, little Jonathan Foster is missing, we`re trying not to connect the dots here. The search continues but investigators are in the back of their heads thinking the worst may have happened.

CASAREZ: And the Harris County Forensic Science Center tonight have those remains to try to identify them.

To Michael Board, reporter, WOAI Radio in San Antonio, Texas, what more can you tell us?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: It`s a difficult subject right now to figure out exactly what the link is here -- if there is a link. One other thing is people are always asking -- they always look at family members first in cases like this.

They`ll look at, you know, mother, a stepfather, a father -- a stepfather. They`re the first people that police usually investigate to figure out what`s going on here. That`s going on in this case. One thing we need to make clear here is if there was a sign of struggle, nobody knew about it.

CPS, Child Protective Services, was never called out to either these family. They never were called out to a report of a child being hurt or a parent struggling to take custody of a child. That never happened in this case. So even though they`re investigating the families in this case, there`s no signs that this child was, you know, a toy, a pawn being played by two families. That`s not the case.

CASAREZ: To Joe Gomez, reporter, KTRH News Talk Radio in Houston. Do we know what police have taken from the apartment complex that this little boy lived?

GOMEZ: Right now, Jean, police apparently have taken away a computer from the apartment. They`re trying to find out if little Jonathan may have been the victim of an online predator. They`re looking through the computer. We don`t know exactly what they`ve found yet.

They`ve also towed away the stepfather`s car. The fact that they towed away his car, they`ve stepped up the rate at which they`re questioning both the stepfather and the mother obviously now they`re questioning the babysitter as well. I mean they`re really -- it seems honing in on the family here, as we have just discovered the charred remains of a child`s body in a ditch, Jean.

CASAREZ: And Joe Gomez, I want to know, and you don`t have the answer, I don`t think anybody has the answer. I want to know if they found Christmas presents in that apartment for that little boy ready for Christmas Day or for Christmas Eve night.

Were there presents? Yes?

GOMEZ: Well, you know -- Jean, we know that he was looking forward to receiving some sort of gaming system for Christmas. That`s what we know. Were they in the apartment at the time, we don`t know. We know he had this to look forward to. So why would he leave of his own accord? Why would he stray far away when he`s 12 years old? He was getting a gaming system. That`s like hitting the jackpot when you`re a little kid.

CASAREZ: And Michael Board, reporter, WOAI Radio, was he in school that week or was it Christmas break?

BOARD: It was a Christmas break here in Texas. He had just actually moved to the school district. He had not been in this school very long. To give you an idea about the impact he`s had on the people, though, he had not been at this school very long but some of those teachers even out joining the search tonight looking for this child.

CASAREZ: We`re taking your calls live. Teri in Pennsylvania. Hi, Teri.

TERI, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Jean. Thanks for doing such a great job when Nancy is not there.

CASAREZ: You`re welcome. It`s my honor. Let me tell you, Teri. What`s your question?

TERI: Well, my original question was answered. But I just can`t believe this time gap of them not reporting him missing for so many hours. I mean I can tell you as a parent that if I have got a call and thought there was something wrong, whether my child was at home or at the babysitter`s, I don`t care where I was working, my feet would be on the ground and I would be out the door to get home and check on that child. And in all likelihood I would be dialing 911 as I was racing to my car.

CASAREZ: You know, Teri, it takes your breath away. I mean, it just takes your breath away when you hear this eight-hour gap. In addition to that, Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist joining us out of New York, we want to show everybody what his mother, through her tears, said to a local station in Houston.

She said, quote. "He`s a curious kid. He`s a pest. I mean, he`s a wonderful baby."

Patricia Saunders, help give me a rational reason why, when your child is gone, you call him a pest.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: That`s a tough one, Jean. And we also know that 60 percent of children who are murdered are killed by their own parents.

What she might be referring to is the fact that he has attention deficit disorder, which is a mild brain disorder usually diagnosed in childhood where kids really cannot focus or concentrate. They may look like they`re oppositional, they may look like they`re impulsive, and that they`re not listening and they don`t care but they do. They just can`t take it in. So he could look like a pest.

CASAREZ: Or it was just a term of endearment. He was her little pest. And with love it was said.

SAUNDERS: Yes.

CASAREZ: But Howard Oliver, deputy -- former deputy medical examiner in Los Angeles, you told us earlier, and I really want to understand this. You said that when a body is burned even beyond recognition that the internal organs can be saved. How is that? Because of the skeletal system? Do the bones protect those organs?

HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The fire usually doesn`t get hot enough or last long enough to damage the internal organs. By the time that whatever the accelerant is on the body burns off, it`s not a long -- it`s not a long enough period of time to burn the organs inside.

CASAREZ: How tough is it to burn --

OLIVER: I had to be burned at a high temperature for a very long period of time to get the internal organs.

CASAREZ: How tough is it to burn a body?

OLIVER: It`s very difficult. You would use an accelerant like gasoline or kerosene. But once that accelerant has burned off, of course, the fire is out. If you really want to -- disintegrate the body you would have to burn it over a fuel that would continue for a long period of time like burners or a wood fire or something that would burn for an extended period of time. An accelerant is what you would normally see would burn off rather quickly.

CASAREZ: Which takes me to Bill Majeski former NYPD detective joining us from New York.

Where this little body was found is not, police are saying tonight, where it was burned. Somebody took the burned remains and just threw them into that ditch. How are you going to find the primary crime scene? Because that`s where your main forensic evidence, if you can finds any, is going to be.

BILL MAJESKI, FMR. NYPD DETECTIVE, MAJESKI ASSOCIATES, INC.: A number of things. One, they`re going to look for some type of forensic evidence on the remains themselves. Another thing is the surrounding area where the body was found. They`re going to be looking for some type of physical evidence.

It may be something like a tire track that may have pulled off to the side of the road. It may have been something that a piece of cloth or a piece of material or a piece of rug that was used to wrap the body and that may have been -- a portion of it still may be there.

In addition to that, they`ll be talking to people that travel that road on a regular basis or people that live in the area that may have been walking a dog or something. So they will be doing a canvass of that area, if anyone saw anything suspicious or car pulling to the side of the road for any period of time.

CASAREZ: The primary burn site, it has to be outside, right? It has to be. It couldn`t have been in an enclosed space.

MAJESKI: In all likelihood, yes. It`s probably inside some place.

CASAREZ: So are you going to ask everyone in the area if they smelled anything burning?

MAJESKI: That will be part of the canvass, sure, when you go out into that area. But the thing is that that car may have traveled a great distance to get there to put the body there. It may have been miles away or it`s very possible that the body may have been even carried there in some kind of a container and put on the side of the road.

In addition to that, they should be able to make a determination as to approximately when that body was put there. So, again, that`s something that they`re probably working on right now in the forensic laboratory.

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UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A search for a missing boy grows more desperate by the hour. Twelve-year-old Jonathan Foster, who vanished from his northwest Houston neighborhood on Christmas Eve.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY GIFFORD, JONATHAN FOSTER`S GRANDMOTHER: I believe he`s out there. I believe he`ll be found. And whoever has got him, let him go and come home please.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A desperate plea from Jonathan Foster`s grandmother Mary Gifford. She says even though a child`s body has been found, her family is holding out hope that Jonathan is still alive.

GIFFORD: Little fellow, I love you. I love you, baby. Don`t give up. We`re looking for you.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Everyone is still looking for Jonathan -- his family, Texas EquuSearch, and the police. Investigators spent the afternoon with Jonathan`s mom Angela Davis and his stepdad David Davis. Both were put in the back of separate police cars and driven away.

Police also towed the stepfather`s car from his northwest Houston neighborhood and tonight they stressed --

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: He`s just so cute, I keep looking at him.

I`m Jean Casarez in for Nancy Grace tonight from "In Session."

I want to go out to the callers. Brenda in Ohio. Hi, Brenda.

BRENDA, CALLER FROM OHIO: Hi, Jean. How are you?

CASAREZ: I`m fine. Thank you for calling.

BRENDA: This makes me literally sick. My son, Jean, has ADHD. He also has ADD. He`s been sexually molested by his own father, and he has blonde hair and blue eyes, by the way.

But anyway, my question is, Jean, how long did that biological mother know the stepfather?

CASAREZ: Good question.

Joe Gomez, reporter KTRH Newsradio. Do we know how long the mother and stepfather had been together?

GOMEZ: No, we still don`t -- those details not being released yet. They were living together. We know that much. We also know that Jonathan Foster was last seen by his stepfather after he was left alone to play video games. And after he was left alone is when he was abducted, Jean.

CASAREZ: How long had he been in the Houston area with his mother?

GOMEZ: Presumably -- as far as we understand he was mostly raised here in the Houston area. Also wanted to point out one interesting note as to when Jonathan vanished and when his mother reported him missing on Christmas Eve.

You know when Jonathan vanished in the afternoon between that time and the time that she reported him missing at about 9:00 at night we received some very dreadful tumultuous storms. I mean there was minor flooding going on in the streets of Houston.

If she knew that her little baby was gone when there was flooding going on in the streets, why didn`t she report him missing before, Jean?

CASAREZ: Without a coat. Without a coat on, Joe Gomez.

GOMEZ: Without a coat.

CASAREZ: I want to go to Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner out of Los Angeles. Some fast questions. Can you have tell during an autopsy of a burned body like this if there has been sexual assault?

OLIVER: No. The external genitalia would be totally burned away. You might find -- inside if it were a female, you`d find the uterus and the ovaries. But the -- anything leading to the external genitalia would be gone. And the soft tissue would be burned away. The skin and the subcutaneous tissue where you might normally see bruising and tearing would be burned away.

CASAREZ: Can you tell the time of death?

OLIVER: It would be -- normally, had this body not been burned, it would be rarely -- it would be successful in a death up to about four days. With body temperature, you can get a reliable measurement up to 24 hours.

There are biochemical changes that take place that are relatively accurate up to about four days. But this body has been burned, so you can`t -- you would not be able to determine cause of, rather, time of death of this body.

CASAREZ: Ray Giudice, defense attorney out of Atlanta. Everything we see with this mother, she is distraught. She`s crying every time that we see her. But there are so many inconsistencies, Ray Giudice, it`s all over the place.

Does she need to get an attorney? Should she do that at this point?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Let me point out something that I see that concerns me. That car and that computer were towed away and removed by one of two ways -- either with the parents` permission, which speaks well to their cooperation, or without their permission.

That means law enforcement went in front of a judge with probable cause and got a search warrant and you can read into that what you want to but it`s not a good thing.

CASAREZ: No. It`s a good question.

Joe Gomez , do we know if a search warrant was gotten by a judge and executed on that apartment?

GOMEZ: We don`t know if -- we understand both parents are fully cooperating with the police. We don`t have any information right now that leads us to believe there was a search warrant that was issued. But both parents are being heavily questioned by police.

I mean, as we mentioned, the stepfather`s car has been towed away. The stepfather and the mother both being separately questioned. Questioning has been intensified recently especially after this burned body has been found, this burned child`s body found in a ditch just today.

I mean there really -- it seems as I mentioned before holding in on this family as this case develops, Jean.

CASAREZ: Of course, which makes common sense.

Doug Burns, defense attorney out of New York. They are being questioned separately, which is obviously a very smart move. But the inconsistencies that are coming from the family, should they get attorneys?

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, I think they should. I mean, first of all, even if they had nothing to hide, I mean it`s advisable to have counsel there just to make sure that everything is followed directly.

I mean I think the window to this case, the key to it, is obviously the detailed interviews of the people involved. Sadly, as has been said all night long, statistics unfortunately bear out that it`s the family members unfortunately who are involved most of the time.

Ray also makes a very good point, which I noted, which is this taking the computer out of their house. If that`s with their consent -- not to be a broken record -- then they are cooperating.

CASAREZ: Right. And that computer was to see if there could be any online predators that had contacted this young boy.

May we tell you the police are looking at sexual offenders in the area and talking with them also.

To Nancy in California. Hi, Nancy.

NANCY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi. I just wondered can they tell from this charred little body if it had an overbite?

CASAREZ: That`s a very good question.

To Dr. Howard Oliver, former deputy medical examiner from Los Angeles. This little boy, Stephen Foster, I want to say has an overbite. Can you tell in a burned body through the jaw if there is an overbite?

OLIVER: Most likely you won`t be able to determine that because the tissues would contract with the heat. They would pull the jaw bone back naturally. So you wouldn`t be able to tell something like that.

CASAREZ: All right. Bill Majeski, former NYPD detective, when someone burns a body like this, that we have learned this hour takes a lot of work.

MAJESKI: Yes, it does.

CASAREZ: The motive is to hide evidence.

MAJESKI: Absolutely.

CASAREZ: The motive is to never be found out. Right?

MAJESKI: Correct. So if this child were abused, physically abused, and there were bruises all over their body, clearly the best way to get rid of those or that evidence would be to burn the body. A sexual assault also would be covered up with burning the body. So, yes, it`s --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A curious call.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Detectives canvassed the scene for evidence after they say a child`s body was discovered dumped in this ditch.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have no idea how old.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: HPD tells us they got a call about a burned body.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Somebody saw what they believed to be burned debris and then called it in. Upon further inspection they thought that it might be a body.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We continue to ask the public`s help, if they`ve seen anything, they`ve heard anything, if they know anything, call our homicide division.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

CASAREZ: We are learning more information that little Jonathan Foster actually lived with his grandmother until about the middle of November this year and then began living with his mother. His mother just wasn`t quite up to taking care of him until that point.

It happens all the time, happens every day in family homes across America but to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, there are so many inconsistencies and we don`t know if this is a missing persons case for Jonathan Foster or if this is a homicide case for that little boy.

Your thoughts?

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, we know it`s a homicide case for somebody and it`s an absolute tragedy that a child`s body has been charred beyond recognition.

Jean, if this is from outside the family, if this is a registered sex offender or somebody with an extensive criminal history, I don`t think it`s going to be too difficult for law enforcement to hone in on that individual because it will be somebody that`s very, very familiar with criminal justice system and has gone to extremes to cover their tracks and is capable of horrific deeds.

That certainly does not include everybody that isn`t a registered sex offender`s list. That would be a very small percentage of those individuals and I think that they would be able to locate that individual pretty quickly.

CASAREZ: But to Bill Majeski, very quickly, how difficult to find forensic evidence of the perpetrator when you have a burn situation?

MAJESKI: Well, the body itself is burned, but the area around the body may yield some type of physical evidence that can -- that has a direct link back to the individual that was involved.

CASAREZ: And that is one of the points. All right. Thank you so much to all of our guests tonight.

Let us stop to remember Marine Lance Corporal Andrew Bedard, 19 years old, from Missoula, Montana. In high school Andrew was an honor student and he always cherished spending time with his friends. He loved playing golf with his father, going on adventures and traveling the country with his family.

He was intensely goal driven and planned on attending college after his enlistment. He was awarded the Purple Heart and the Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal. He leaves behind his parents Michelle Bedard- Smith and Dennis Bedard, and his grandmother Janice.

Andrew Bedard, an American hero.

Thank you so much to all of our guests. We`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then, good night, everybody.

END