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NANCY GRACE

Four Bodies Found on Long Island Beach

Aired December 14, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. An off-duty cop walking his dog on a beautiful, remote and isolated beach stumbles upon a woman`s dead body, that beach now turned burial ground. Within 48 hours, three more sets of female remains discovered.

Bombshell tonight. We learn all four bodies dumped like trash, apparently thrown from a car, then going unnoticed, concealed by heavy underbrush, hidden along a quarter-mile stretch of sand. Tonight, as police try their best to identify the dead women, and still even tonight searching for more bodies, more bodies within 500 feet of the first, who is the serial killer stalking young women, locals and tourists alike?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The police go looking for one missing person.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They find four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Buried here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stuffed in these brushes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within a quarter of a mile of each other.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are wondering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could a serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s not a coincidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Be dumping the bodies of victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ended up in the same location.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No positive IDs yet on the bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fingerprints.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No word yet on identities.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dental records.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Picturesque and popular area in the summertime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Somebody targeted these individuals.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Winter, it is empty and cold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And dumped them in the same place.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tonight, it is chillingly so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, a gorgeous 23-year-old mom takes off from her Tempe, Arizona, home by car for a thousand-mile road trip with this beautiful 8-month-old baby boy, Gabriel. Three days later, cops find Mommy, Miami Beach, no baby. Breaking tonight. As Mommy brags the entire case will be thrown out, she confesses she smothered baby Gabriel, conceals him in a duffel bag and throws him into a dumpster. And tonight, it`s all caught on tape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOGAN MCQUEARY, FATHER: Where are you, and where`s Gabriel?

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, MOTHER: Gabriel is in a dumpster.

MCQUEARY: No, he`s not.

JOHNSON: You want to talk to girls? That`s the price you pay. I killed him this morning.

MCQUEARY: No, you didn`t.

JOHNSON: Elizabeth Johnson, 7-24-86.

You were going to take the only thing I had left. You wanted to take from me. You wanted to make me miserable. So find some new girl to make your new baby.

I don`t really know what to say, but everything is so false.

You made me do this.

MCQUEARY: You did not hurt Gabriel.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I asked here, Where is he? And she said that, I stuffed him in a duffel bag. And she suffocated him and put him in a diaper bag, put him in a dumpster.

JOHNSON: You don`t care about me. All you care about is Gabriel, and he`s gone now. You know what I`m capable of, and you pushed me anyway. You destroyed my life.

MCQUEARY: I haven`t destroyed anything.

JOHNSON: Yes, you have, Logan. You made me kill my baby boy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. An off-duty cop walking his dog on a beautiful, remote, isolated beach stumbles upon a woman`s dead body, that beach now turned burial ground. Within 48 hours, three more sets of female remains discovered. Who is the serial killer stalking young women, locals and tourists alike?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four bodies in three days.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police are investigating the discovery of several bodies, four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police are wondering if they have a serial killer on their hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re looking at that, that we could have a serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not one body, but ultimately four bodies discovered within a quarter of a mile from each other.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Horrible discovery marks four bodies now found in this location in recent days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s a coincidence that four bodies ended up in this area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it looks like all four were killed somewhere else and dumped near the beach from a car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a car pulled up and opened the door and the bodies were dumped into the bushes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Some of the bodies were so badly decomposed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were not grouped together. They were spread out over approximately a quarter of a mile of an area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Locals and tourists alike, all women, all dead, concealed within just feet of each other on an isolated stretch of beach, beautiful beach.

Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni, there at the beach where the bodies were found. Rupa, what do we know?

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, I am right here at the beach, Oak Beach, in a tony, ritzy community not far from Southampton, which you know is where celebrities and wealthy people alike spend time and spend their time in this resort area in the summer. Now, this is a beautiful, peaceful beach, Nancy, and four bodies were found, the first one Saturday, completely skeletonized, and the other three found Monday.

Now, the first one was found because a police officer with his K9 dog, cadaver dog, was just searching the beach, doing a routine training. And originally, he was searching for a young woman that went missing in this area last May from the New Jersey area. So then he found the skeletonized body just here right behind me, just five to eight feet away from the highway right here, Nancy, just dumped.

And once he found the skeletonized body, then they sent police back again on Monday and did a search of the entire area. And within a quarter of a mile area, they found three more bodies. Now, three of these bodies are confirmed to be female, Nancy. They have not been identified, but we know three bodies are female. And two of them, the two that were -- of the three found on Monday, were found in a burlap sack. That`s right, Nancy, a burlap sack.

GRACE: OK, so what we`ve got, four dead bodies within 500 feet, isolated stretch of beach, near the Hamptons. We know that two of the four bodies -- let me just go ahead and clue you in, Rupa, the fourth one`s going to be a woman -- shrouded in burlap bags. Do we know, Rupa, were any clothes found on the women? It doesn`t matter if they`re skeletonized. Clothes will still be on them if they were clothed when they were dumped.

MIKKILINENI: Right, Nancy. I asked this question, and police are keeping this really close to their chest. They don`t want to say. They`re protecting their investigation. They will not tell me if any personal items were found, anything else around the bodies and whether they were fully clothed. We only know that two of the three bodies on Monday were found wrapped in a burlap sack.

GRACE: This is eerily similar to a string of 2006 murders in the Atlantic Beach area. I want to go now to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," who`s also been covering the story. Jean, what more do you know?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": You know, Nancy, there are various forms of decomposition for these remains because some were skeletal remains, some are wrapped in that burlap bag, and authorities are saying they`re going to use DNA, fingerprint analysis and dental records for comparison.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. But first, to Lorraine Ela. This is the mother of Megan Waterman, one of the possible victims. They are joining us from South Portland, Maine. Ms. Ela, thank you for being with us.

LORRAINE ELA, MOTHER OF POSSIBLE VICTIM (via telephone): Thank you.

GRACE: Ms. Ela, have cops contacted you about this?

ELA: Yes. (INAUDIBLE) contacted me two or three times today about it.

GRACE: Why do they believe this may be your daughter?

ELA: I`m not really sure. Megan was one of the women that were found maybe was kind of in that same situation. And that`s where they`re leading to.

GRACE: Ms. Ela, when did Megan go missing?

ELA: Megan went missing June 6th at 1:30 AM.

GRACE: What happened the night she went missing?

ELA: I`m not really sure. The only thing that I know is on June 5th, Megan had left the hotel with her boyfriend, Akeem Cruz, at 8:00 PM. Megan was then seen walking back into the hotel at 8:30 AM -- I mean 8:30 PM, by herself. At 1:30 AM Sunday morning, Akeem Cruz called -- contacted my daughter by cell phone, wanted my daughter to meet him. So my daughter left the hotel at 1:30 AM by herself.

GRACE: You are taking a look at one of the possible women now found, four bodies along a remote stretch of beach, an isolated, beautiful, secluded area of beach not far from the Hamptons, where the world`s rich and famous, celebrities, go to summer. On this beach, we now found turned burial ground, four women`s bodies. This is resurrecting a 2006 case of multiple women found dead also along a stretch of beach, still unsolved.

Out to the lines. Annmarie, New York. Hi, Annmarie.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. It`s an honor to be speaking with you. You are truly a gift from God. I really admire you. I live in the area and I`ve been down that road many times. There used to be a bar over there that Donald Trump is now trying to buy. It`s really not like the Hamptons, but it is very remote, especially this time of year. It`s a very dark road.

My question is, is that -- have they identified if any of the victims are male? And would they be able to tell that right away from the shape of the bones and whatever remains have been found?

GRACE: If you have a complete skeleton -- actually, you don`t even need a complete skeleton. If you have a skull or the pelvic area, you can absolutely immediately tell if it is a man or a woman. Just based on the teeth alone, you can tell if it`s a man or a woman. You can isolate on the teeth alone the -- basically, age of the woman, the general age. You can tell whether it is a white female, Hispanic, Asian or African-American female by the teeth alone. So yes, they know if these are men and women. And to our knowledge, all four are women.

We are taking your calls. I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler." Pat, OK, these women`s bodies have clearly been dumped in a location or at a time of year when the killer knows they will not be discovered. Also, the connection of the burlap bags. What does it mean?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, I think what we have here, Nancy, is a guy who`s found a very good dumping ground. After he dumped the first body and no one found it, he knew he could dump two, three and four. And those burlap bags are very interesting. He had not one but two over a period of time. So what were those burlap bags used for? One of the best clues they could have.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oak Beach tonight looking more like a gruesome cemetery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This story`s just frightening to think about.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A big investigation`s been mounted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re going to expand the search to determine if there are more bodies in the area.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a car pulled up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over a quarter mile stretch of beach.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Opened the door.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A big investigation`s been mounted.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And dumped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not one body but ultimately.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Into the brush.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nature of what we`re dealing with here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gruesome cemetery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Decomposition of the bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The victims may have been killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murders.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Murders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Up to two years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s a coincidence.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Possible serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Four.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The four people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Serial killer on their hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ended up in this area. We can`t overlook anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it likes like all four were killed somewhere else and dumped near the beach from a car.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Melody in Ohio. Hi, Melody.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Merry Christmas to you and your twins. Merry Christmas.

GRACE: Thank you very much. This is going to be one of the greatest Christmases of my life. And when I think about what these mothers are going through, like the mom that is joining us tonight, Lorraine Ela -- this could possibly be her daughter that she has loved and nurtured for all of these years, and now she`s waiting to find out whether one of these skeletal remains is going to be her daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, God bless her. Anyway, Nancy, my question is, why are they stating that it was a car that presumably dropped off these bodies? And has that 911 tape been disclosed? Thank you.

GRACE: Good question, Melody. I am guessing that they are saying this because of the distance from the roadway that the bodies have been found. If you take a look -- take a look at this brush. They are looking -- those yellow markers, I`m talking about -- yes, there you go. Thanks, Liz. Look at that. That is not far from the street. Someone could come up, drive in -- they don`t have to go even up onto the sandy area of the beach -- dump the body and keep going. That`s why -- I am assuming it`s because of the distance from the highway to where the bodies are found. And what is so incredible, one of these bodies may have been there for two years undiscovered.

Back to Jean Casarez. Jean, what do you know?

CASAREZ: ... various forms of decomposition and the manner -- where these bodies were under, heavy, heavy underbrush. It was pristine, secluded beach near the Hamptons, as you`re saying, but the overbrush and also the snow made it so difficult, but not for that K9 dog, Nancy, last Saturday. He is the one that`s responsible for the first discovery.

GRACE: Right now, we`re being joined again, in addition to Jean Casarez, Rupa Mikkilineni is joining us from the location where the bodies have been found. Rupa, why are investigators assuming at this juncture that the bodies have been dumped by a car as it passed?

MIKKILINENI: Right, Nancy. We are right here along the highway -- it`s called Ocean Parkway -- where this beach is located. Now, literally, this brush area where these bodies were found are just a few feet off Ocean Parkway. So it`s the easiest thing in the world for a car to drive by, probably in the middle of the night because -- in fact, as you can see back here, we`ve lit this area up with our own lights, but in fact, it`s dead pitch dark, Nancy. There are no street lights here.

So in the middle of the night, a car could have pulled up and dumped a body, just thrown it out. They could have gotten out of the car, not walked more than a few feet to dump it in the brush. So this is why police are convinced that that is what happened. They are convinced that the murders happened elsewhere and then the bodies were dumped here, likely by the same individual because this area is not well known. It is very rarely traversed by people in this area.

It`s not -- the beach -- if you look at the beach area, it`s not -- this particular area where the bodies were found, there`s brush and it`s thick and it`s not exactly the kind of area where you would lay down and sun yourself. So that area of the beach is further down, which is where the general population would lie out. So you know, there you have it, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, Rupa, did you say two of the four bodies were wrapped in burlap bags?

MIKKILINENI: That`s right. The three bodies that were found on Monday, two of those three bodies were wrapped in a burlap sack.

GRACE: OK. Now we`ve got a fourth body, all of them 500 feet together -- they`re all within a 500-feet stretch.

Back to you, Pat Brown. A burlap bag. I agree with you, that`s going to be one of the best clues we`ve got. They are used for anything from holding onions and potatoes to stopping erosion on slopes. They cover plants for frost protection. You see them used a lot with landscapers and also, for instance, at farmers` market by farmers. What do you think as to this being the main clue we`ve got so far, burlap bag?

BROWN: Right. This is exactly it because anybody could have killed women and dropped them there, but who normally has a burlap bag? I don`t have any burlap bags hanging around my house or in my vehicle. And this may lead us to, like you say, a landscaper perhaps with a possible, you know, truck that he`s got them in the back all the time. So this can really, really help out because of the location where he was passing by, maybe from home to work, and those burlap bags.

GRACE: To former sergeant Phoenix PD, Paul Penzone. Obviously, this is the dumping ground, the burial ground. These murders did not happen here. That`s clear to me. Why?

PAUL PENZONE, FMR. SGT., PHOENIX POLICE DEPARTMENT: Well, it`s a remote area, so it`s a good place to hide bodies. So I`m sure that what happened is -- if they have that scene and not seen anything that`s indicative of the murder taking place there, it`s a great place to try to hide bodies, but it may not be the only location. And that`s a big concern.

GRACE: And that leads me back to the 2006 killings, Atlantic Beach. But clearly, this is not where the murders went down. You see nothing more of the women, none of their possessions. And it`s not like this killer is sneaking up behind women on the beach and kidnapping them in a burlap bag. Oh, no. They were killed elsewhere. This is the burial ground.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s a common denominator here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Too coincidental.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s a coincidence.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not a coincidence that four bodies, different stages of decomposition.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four bodies at the same location.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. An isolated and beautiful beachside turns burial ground. Now the bodies of four young women have piled up, all within 500 feet of each other, two of them that we know of buried or discarded, dumped, in burlap bags. No traces of clothing whatsoever. The bodies as of yet unidentified.

A police officer out with his dog stumbles upon the first body, and then quickly thereafter, within just 48 hours, the other three bodies uncovered. Who is the madman, who is the serial killer preying on women, locals and tourists alike?

Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight out of Atlanta, Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, and defense attorney out of New York Joey Jackson. Raymond Giudice, I want to focus back on those burlap bags. What do you know?

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, that area of Long Island is where fishermen fish for clams, shellfish, oysters, and they ship them all over the country -- because I unloaded those trucks when I was a kid -- in large burlap bags. There`s the connection. There`s the link.

GRACE: As a matter of fact, you did that for many, many years working for the fish market. Am I correct?

GIUDICE: That`s right, Nancy. That`s right. And that whole area, those burlap bags will be found not by landscapers, but in fishing areas, fishing boats and fishing packing areas where the shellfish is packed in the burlap bags. They`re big enough to hold a body, especially if it`s dismembered.

GRACE: OK. Joey Jackson, what do we need to make a connection between the bodies?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think we have a connection here, Nancy. Why? Because first of all, we know the proximity. We know that they`re found within 500 feet of one another. And I think the burlap bags will further give us clues. You know there`s going to be DNA testing. There will be other types of testing. There`ll be fibers. There`ll be fabrics. And ultimately, at the end of the day, we should suspect that they will find not only the suspect but the actual perpetrator.

GRACE: And what this says to me is if you can pin one of these murders on the perpetrator, you can bring the other three in against him because, come on, what`s the likelihood, the probability, that some other killer comes and dumps his murder victims in the same spot? Zero. The same man killed all three women, and there`s likely more to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not clear if the victims were men or women or how they died or how long they`ve been here. They were all found on the northern side of Ocean Parkway, which...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Four bodies in the same location.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dumped near the beach.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stuffed in these brushes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just dumped on top of the -- the ground. They weren`t buried.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Four bodies in three days.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Within a quarter of a mile of each other.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Four bodies now found in this location.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which would indicate that they were dumped there by the same person or persons.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It appears you have a serial killer dumping bodies along this stretch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t think it`s a coincidence that four bodies ended up in this area.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police wonder if they now have a serial killer on their hands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If there are any more bodies out there we want to find them.

As many of you know, on May 1st of this year, a 23-year-old female went missing in the vicinity of where the bodies were found. Actually, she went missing about 3 1/2 miles east of where the bodies were found.

Her name was Shonnan Gilbert, 23 years old. At that time, our missing persons unit, you know, assumed the investigation and over the summer the officer assigned continued to respond to that location.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: For those of you just joining us, a police officer walking along an isolated and beautiful stretch of sand on a beach stumbles upon a woman`s body. Within 48 hours, three more bodies added to the count. Police still searching.

Tonight, who is the madman, the serial killer, stalking local women, tourists alike?

Straight out to Rupa Mikkilineni, joining us there on the beach. Rupa, what do we know? Take it from the top.

RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right.

Nancy, there was a young woman that vanished in May. We know that she made contact with somebody on Craigslist, had a meeting in Fire Island which is just a couple of miles from here. And then she made a 911 call early May from that evening when she was meeting with this individual.

We don`t know if it was a man, we don`t if it was a woman. We just know she had some type of an appointment. We then know that she called 911 and said she was frantic and terrified and afraid and running from somebody.

This 911 call lasted 20 long minutes, Nancy. By the time police responded and got over here to the area -- it was 45 minutes later, they didn`t find anything. Her mother filed a missing persons report the next day.

And this is what we know. So this person is the individual that police were looking for, this one policeman, lone policeman on Saturday with his cadaver dog, searching this area behind me, Nancy, and that is when the discovery of the skeletonized remains were found which led to a fuller search on Monday here at the beach, which led to finding three more bodies.

So now, Nancy, four bodies, three confirmed female and two of those bodies found in a burlap sack.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. Out to Laura in Illinois. Hi, Laura.

LAURA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, Nancy. Merry, merry Christmas to you.

GRACE: Thank you.

LAURA: I have been waiting a long time to talk to you. And God bless you --

GRACE: Laura, thank you for calling in and thank you for your blessing on the twins.

LAURA: The twins are beautiful. Just beautiful.

Nancy, I have two questions. One question is, are these women that they have found or have they identified them yet, are they from the same area?

GRACE: First of all, they have reason to believe that at least one of them is a tourist. They cannot identify -- they`re not making a public identification at this point.

With us tonight is Lorraine Ela. She`s the mother of Megan Waterman from Maine. So what we know is police have contacted Mrs. Ela. We know her daughter was not a local. They believe this may be one of the bodies, but they don`t know yet.

To Mrs. Ela, joining us tonight from South Portland, Maine, do they have your daughter`s DNA?

LORRAINE ELA, MOTHER OF POSSIBLE VICTIM, MEGAN WATERMAN: That, I do not know yet. I`m sure Detective (INAUDIBLE) will call me tomorrow to let me know.

GRACE: When was the last time you saw your daughter?

ELA: Memorial Day weekend. Before she went to New York.

GRACE: Why was she going to New York?

ELA: She was going back and forth to New York for a little over a year with her boyfriend. And she`s always --

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: And I`m sure the -- I`m sure boyfriend has been questioned extensively. He has not been named a suspect in any way. And now we know three other bodies have been located along that same stretch where they think this young lady might have been killed.

We don`t know the identity of any of the four bodies. Police still looking as the body count rises.

Out to Dr. Howard Oliver, deputy medical examiner, forensic pathologist, joining us out of L.A.

Doctor, at this juncture, one of the bodies being two years there, how can they establish COD, cause of death?

HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DEPUTY MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: It`s very doubtful that they`ll be able to establish cause of death unless they`ve got some sort of boney injury that they can prove. Most causes of death have to deal with soft tissue injury. And then these bodies that are skeletonized, you won`t have soft tissue.

GRACE: Joining me right now, Dr. Mark Hillman, clinical psychotherapist and author, joining us out of New York tonight.

Doctor Hillman, thank you for being with us. Weigh in. Weigh in on the mind of a serial killer that will just dump women`s bodies. I mean, he must clearly would pick a time of the night, probably in the wee morning hours, to dump these bodies when nobody was around in this isolated stretch of beach, not far from the Hamptons, the playground of the rich and famous.

But the idea of just dumping a body out and leaving it, and then dumping three more. That we know of.

MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "MY THERAPIST IS MAKING ME NUTS": Well, it shows that the mindset of the serial killer is that three out of the four bodies identified as women are -- they`re just objects. They have no person, they have no identity, and so it`s all about power, it`s all about control.

And so, you know, what they`re utilizing is their ability to seduce people to that area, and then terminate them.

GRACE: We are taking your calls. To Stephanie in Georgia, hi, Stephanie.

STEPHANIE, CALLER FROM GEORGIA: Hi, Nancy. How you doing?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

STEPHANIE: Nancy, I want to know how long the bodies have been there. Were they all deposited at the same time and are they all in the same condition?

GRACE: I`m sorry, I couldn`t hear the last part of your question, Stephanie. Repeat.

STEPHANIE: Are they all in the same condition?

GRACE: Out to Rupa Mikkilineni, we know one has been there, we think, for about two years. I mean I assume they are judging that based on something external on the body or the degree of -- decomposition. What about the others?

MIKKILINENI: That`s right, Nancy. We know that all four of the bodies have very different levels of decomposition. That`s what police have told us. Now we know that the range that they`re looking at is somewhere between maybe the most recent body might have been dumped there about a month ago and the oldest body was dumped there maybe 1 1/2 to 2 years ago.

GRACE: To Dr. Oliver, if a body was dumped a month ago in cold temperatures, what would be the degree of decomposition?

OLIVER: The decomposition over a period of about a month would be very little. This is cold time of the year. Decomposition would be slowed. There wouldn`t be many insect vectors or -- to destroy the body so it should be in very good shape if it was dumped a month ago.

GRACE: I want to go back to Dr. Mark Hillman. Your microphone was malfunctioning when we spoke to you last. I want you to recap what you said and address the shrouding of the bodies. And I`m using that verb intentionally, the shrouding of the bodies in burlap bags.

Hillman.

Do I have Hillman with me, Liz?

HILLMAN: Yes. Nancy, the mindset of a serial killer, it`s all about power and control, and as you say, there may be a ritualistic pattern to this because, as you say, the shrouding of the body or two of the bodies in burlap bags is very significant.

And so as we take a look at -- and I`m sure there`s a lot of information that has not been released, but whether they found tire tracks, whether they found soft or hard body tissue, they`ll find what they`re looking for. But look for ritualistic behavior.

GRACE: Ritualistic behavior.

Out to the lines. Lori in New York. Hi, Lori.

LORI, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. Glad to have you back and everything turned out well.

GRACE: Praise the Lord.

LORI: Thank you.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

LORI: I just want to ask you, I know you mentioned burlap sacks possibly being used on farms. I know out on the east, there are a lot of farms that are out there. And people that still work on them.

Have they checked any of the farm --t he farms and see if there`s any workers that come through there that may be the serial killer`s one of them?

GRACE: Jean Casarez, what about it?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": The medical examiner is working hours upon end to try to establish identities of these women, at the same time crime scene investigators are launching what I believe is going to be a massive, massive homicide investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On the hunt for a suspected serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Four bodies. Four.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Fear there could be more victims.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Identification is the key at this point. To identify the four victims.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks like a car pulled up on the side of the roadway.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: On the other side of the parkway is the beach and ocean.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And dumped them into the brush on the side.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It is a picturesque and popular area in the summertime.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s overgrown, during the summer it would be very difficult to see something.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: In the winter it is empty and cold.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The brush and growth have now subsided. That helped with the search.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police go looking for one missing person and they find four bodies.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Oak Beach tonight, looking more like a gruesome cemetery.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Joining us there at the beach, Rupa Mikkilineni.

Rupa, I understand two of the bodies shrouded in burlap bags. Were the others possibly wrapped in burlap at one time? Do we have any idea about that?

MIKKILINENI: Nancy, we have no idea. We know that the first set of remains found on Saturday were skeletonized remains, absolutely bones, skeletonized, and we don`t know the rest of them whether burlap sack or not.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Pam, North Carolina. Hi, Pam.

PAM, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

PAM: Hi, Nancy. Happy holidays to you and yours.

GRACE: Thank you.

PAM: My question is this. I noticed one of the girls` boyfriends in the background. I wanted to know, has he been totally ruled out in her missing?

GRACE: I believe that he has. Let`s go to Jean Casarez.

Jean, what do we know about that boyfriend?

CASAREZ: Well, if you`re talking about Shonnan Gilbert, let me tell you that they are really investigating a phone call she made to 911. She said she was trying to get away from somebody.

This was in May. She was never seen again and that`s who they were originally looking for on Saturday.

GRACE: So long story short, she did not say anything about trying to get away from her boyfriend. It was some other unknown?

CASAREZ: No. That was an unknown. And they have not released the tape. We don`t know who she was trying to get away from but no one I think believes it was a boyfriend.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Raymond Giudice, defense attorney, Atlanta. Joey Jackson, defense attorney, New York.

Raymond Giudice, if police can identify or make a connection to a suspect in one of these cases, they got him on all three -- all four.

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, most likely. I mean if they can prove one case, they`ll hold that suspect down on the one case until they can build better cases, if possible, on the next three or potentially more.

GRACE: What about it, Jackson? Any way if they get a suspect on one of these murders that he doesn`t fall on all four?

JOEY JACKSON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think so, Nancy. I think they do. But I think the larger question is whether they had help. Was it a single individual, was it somebody else working in concert and --

GRACE: Wait. Put him up.

JACKSON: And as --

GRACE: Come on. You`re kidding me. Name me one serial killer that had help.

JACKSON: Well, you know --

GRACE: Other than the D.C. the shootings.

JACKSON: Listen. Every fact and circumstance is different. And I think it would be -- we need to --

GRACE: Listening. Not hearing. Not hearing one.

JACKSON: We cannot rule out or isolate any possibility here.

GRACE: OK. So I take that that`s a zero. You can`t name one.

JACKSON: Not right now.

GRACE: Yes. OK.

Pat Brown, what`s the possibility -- you know, what`s the probability, not possible. I mean, it`s possible a little gray man from mars did it, but not probable. What`s the probability that there are accomplices, more than one killer?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": Well, like you say, most of the time serial killers work alone because simple fact is nobody really likes them. But there were people like the hillside stranglers, there are serial killer duos out there, usually a stronger ones and his little -- you know, his little tag-along. But most likely in this case I`m still thinking one.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Sheeba in Illinois. Hi, Sheeba.

SHEEBA, CALLER FROM ILLINOIS: Hi, sweetie. It`s been a long time.

GRACE: Before you say one thing, I want to thank you.

SHEEBA: Yes.

GRACE: I know for a fact the twins are asleep right now. They`re not going to hear this. The twins have wanted pillow pets since they first saw them on Sprout and they would argue who`s going to get the unicorn and who`s going to get the ladybug and who`s -- I want to thank you for the pillow pets. I have not given them to them. They are going to get them on Christmas morning.

SHEEBA: That`s good. Mom`s gifts from Santa.

GRACE: Unicorn and I think the other`s a doggy dog, right?

SHEEBA: Yes. And it goes to John David.

GRACE: Yes. And Lucy`s getting the unicorn.

SHEEBA: Lucy, to me, a unicorn has always been magical and Lucy is your magical baby. She was so tiny.

GRACE: She was.

SHEEBA: And I just look at her and think of magic.

GRACE: Well, she`s 37 pounds of magic now, praise the Lord.

What`s your question, dear?

SHEEBA: My question is, I think we`re so fortunate that a police officer found this, because somebody like me would be walking along the beach and think huh, what is that, and just might kick it unless I saw the skull or a few more bones.

GRACE: You know what, Sheeba, you`re right. Anybody else may not have even recognized what they found. And you know, it reminds me a little bit of that Massachusetts couple, the tourists in Aruba, who found a jawbone and recognized it as being human. A lot of us may not even know to identify and just keep on walking past.

You know, back to you, Rupa Mikkilineni, you`re joining us there along that stretch of beach where at least four bodies have been dumped. Police still looking for even more bodies.

Explain to me where was the cop with his dog? So he wasn`t on the beach, he was closer to the roadway?

MIKKILINENI: Yes, Nancy, he was closer to the roadway. The first set of remains on Saturday were found just five to eight yards away from this highway right here, just a little bit further down in this area where the brush was probably about three to five feet tall, not very far.

The bodies were not that well hidden. I mean, right where I`m standing right here, Nancy, the trees are a lot taller, but the area a little bit further down where the bodies were found, it was short brush. So this is where he found the skeletonized remains, that first day on Saturday.

And there`s something else I wanted to mention, Nancy, that -- you know, one of your guests mentioned tonight. He spoke about this burlap sack and clams and fishermen. Well, one interesting comment that the police made to me earlier today when I said well, who goes in this area, and this -- you know, this area where there`s brush and you know, do people lay out, what?

And they said actually it`s such an isolated area and so remote, no one goes there except maybe the random fisherman. So it`s interesting that the police made that comment to me today, Nancy.

GRACE: Now two of the women that police are looking at as possibly being two of these victims, you`ve got Shonnan, no boyfriend, a young local lady, young girl. There was also Megan Waterman from Maine who came back and forth to New York with her boyfriend. Police are not making positive IDs tonight. But we do know they are still searching for more bodies.

And, to Jean Casarez, are police making any connection to that string of murders in 2006 where four women also turned up on a strip of beach naked, face down?

CASAREZ: Atlantic City Beach, 2006, four bodies. You know they are, Nancy. Think about the Green River killer in Seattle, Washington. We covered that. He confessed to 48 bodies. But he would leave them just at the side of the road or at the side of the Columbia River. So many similarities. He was married, with kids, led an extremely normal life.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The missing persons unit assisted by K-9 responded to the area where this young lady went missing. Now the officer John Maella (ph) with his dog Blue expanded the search. Very thorough, aggressive officer, excellent K-9 officer, and proceeded east of where she went missing and located a body.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police now looking at a possibility it`s the work of a serial killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We certainly have to look at that. That, you know, somebody targeted these individuals and dumped them in the same place.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Looking at the possibility it`s a serial killer? Hello? It`s a serial killer. The same man killed all four women. And there`s probably more.

One of the bodies now dated back to being dumped about two years ago, the most recent in the past month.

To Linda in Indiana. Hi, Linda. What`s your question?

LINDA, CALLER FROM INDIANA: Hi, Nancy. I have actually three short ones.

GRACE: OK.

LINDA: What prompted the cop to take his dog to that area to look for the girl? And how far it was his car parked from where the bodies were found? So therefore, could the cop have killed the women and got tired of the bodies not being discovered?

GRACE: OK. To Rupa Mikkilineni, what prompted the cop to do training exercises in that area?

MIKKILINENI: I`m sorry -- I`m sorry, Nancy? Can you just say the question?

GRACE: Yes. What prompted the cop to do training exercises with his K-9 dog in that area?

OK. We`ve lost her audio. But I know the answer to that is going to be he was specifically looking in that area where one of the women had made that 911 call that came from that area. So they`ve been searching on and off ever since the 911 call came in.

Everybody, we`ve got to stop and remember, Army Staff Sergeant Lester Kinney II, Zanesville, Ohio, killed Iraq. On a second tour, also served Afghanistan, awarded Bronze Star. Wanted to enlist since age 8.

Loved sports, snowboarding, hiking, camping, a champion for the underdog. Pet lover. Leaves behind grieving parents, Jack and Barb, a Gold Star mother, brother Curtis, sisters Tina and Jody, widow Marissa.

Lester Kinney II, American hero.

Thanks for our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us.

Happy birthday to our superstar Rachel. She loves the New York Yankees and time with her family in south Florida.

Happy birthday, baby girl.

And thank you tonight to my longtime doctor, Dr. Matthew Burrell, and my surgeon Dr. Michael Dawson. They pulled me through surgery at Thanksgiving, giving me back to my family and the twins and, of course, back here with you and all of our continuing search for justice.

I still believe if it had not been for your prayers it wouldn`t have turned out the same way.

So thank you, Doctors.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END