Return to Transcripts main page

NANCY GRACE

Missing Zahra`s Jailed Stepmother Taken to Search Site

Aired October 25, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, North Carolina. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. The little girl, Zahra, completely dependent on two hearing aids, can only walk using a prosthetic leg after losing her left leg to childhood bone cancer, vanishes into thin air, her bedroom empty, prosthetic leg missing, hearing aids left behind. Last person to see her alive, stepmommy.

And did stepmommy confess to writing a phony million-dollar ransom note? Investigators scour a local landfill for a piece of evidence after they subpoena the make and model and serial number of Zahra`s prosthetic leg. Search teams, sifting through tons of debris, zero in on mattresses, seizing them as evidence.

Bombshell tonight. In the last hours, investigators yank stepmommy out of her private jail cell and haul her in handcuffs to the back of a squad car, headed to densely wooded areas and deep creek bed. Have police located little Zahra`s body? And also in the last hours, Zahra`s father thrown behind bars. Tonight, we learn from inside the investigation stepmommy gets rid of that mattress in just 48 hours before she finally reports Zahra gone. Investigators back at that landfill tonight. Tonight, where is 10-year-old Zahra?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What can you tell us about Zahra?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A new search is under way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why is she so special?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A North Carolina landfill.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really (ph) small.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Charged with class H (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Felony obstruction of justice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elisa Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has reportedly been brought out to a new search area.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nothing ever upset her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Less than a mile from where Elisa Baker used to live.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wanted to do everything for everyone (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t believe him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of this.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, did you have any involvement in her disappearance?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As Zahra`s father, Adam Baker, sits in jail.

ADAM BAKER, FATHER: No.

GRACE: You judge them for yourself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How come warrants haven`t been charged on the father?

GRACE: This little girl is either missing or dead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father is cooperating at this time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seems concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: At such time that we need to serve those processes, we will.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is.

BAKER: I appreciate everyone -- everyone doing what they`re doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just downright evil.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Pennsylvania. A mother of two and nurse`s aide turns her home into a morgue. Tonight, it`s uncovered Mommy murdered five -- repeat, five -- newborn infants. Why? To cover up a 14-year sex affair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The gruesome investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think shocking.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Prosecutors say 44-year-old mom Michelle Kalina killed five of her infants to hide an affair from her husband.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The babies belonged to Kalina and a boyfriend.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police said Kalina kept the bones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The infants remained inside a closet and stored in coolers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pretty sad and twisted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The dimensions were two feet by three feet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The grisly discovery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In all instances, the infant had been wrapped and then placed in a bag.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the children allegedly kept in a paper bag.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Forensic anthropologist isn`t sure of the exact age or how the babies died.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It doesn`t stop there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They were either close to full term or up to 1 month old.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. A 10-year-old little girl snatched from her own bedroom in the dark of night. In the last hours, investigators yank stepmommy out of her private jail cell, hauling her away in handcuffs in the back of a squad car, to a densely wooded area and a deep creek bed. Have police located Zahra`s body?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAKER: My name is Adam Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "You like being in control."

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "Now who`s in control?"

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Daddy.

BAKER: This is (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Adam Baker.

BAKER: Everybody knows more than I do at the moment.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Zahra`s father is in jail.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, can we talk to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Arrested today.

BAKER: (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Where is 10-year-old Zahra?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He cannot answer these questions.

GRACE: Where is Zahra?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because the answers could be devastating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whether he had an active role in disappearing this little girl.

GRACE: K9s hit on Daddy`s industrial wood chipper.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or whether it`s simply through turning a blind eye.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she ever do anything, Adam?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elisa Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would make fun of the child.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Elisa Baker.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Admitted to writing the ransom note.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra`s stepmom.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would taunt her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s absolutely complicity.

GRACE: If the stepmommy did do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) concerned about their own daughter.

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The father sat by and let it happen.

BAKER: It appears they may have taken my daughter.

GRACE: They can all get a one-way ticket to hell!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to John Miller, editor of "The Hickory Daily Record." He is there in Granite Falls at one of the new search sites. John Miller, I understand stepmommy yanked out of her private jail cell, put in the back of the squad car, handcuffed and taken to a densely wooded area where there is a deep creek bed. That can only mean one thing. Either they found the body, or they think they have a location where the body may be. What do you know, John Miller?

JOHN MILLER, "HICKORY DAILY RECORD": Well, Nancy, you`re right. They did take her from a jail cell today in Catawba County jail, and they came out here to this site, along with lots and lots of officers who were scouring the site near where she lived, about a mile from here, some years ago. They started before dawn this morning and they were here through the evening. But we were told there was no results of the search and she was returned to her jail cell.

GRACE: OK. Again, John Miller, what were you told?

MILLER: We were told that she was brought out here earlier this afternoon. We saw some video of her arriving on scene, but we did not see her get out of the vehicle. It was reported that she stayed in the vehicle while they continued their searches around here from pre-dawn this morning until this evening. But we were told -- we were told, at this site at least, that they did not find anything.

GRACE: You know, cops have been intentionally disseminating information that makes you go the other way, but I know this. I know that they go get her in the early morning hours, yank her out of that jail cell, and bring her to densely wooded forest and a deep creek bed.

To Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session," also joining us from the field. Jean, where is this area? What is it in connection to stepmommy?

JEAN CASAREZ, "IN SESSION": And this is a critical fact right here because it is less than a mile, Nancy, from where Elisa Baker lived three years ago. And this has been a theme with law enforcement from the beginning. They are going to the homes that she used to live in and searching at least the grounds around the home.

GRACE: Something around this creek bed, something around this densely wooded area, caused a special trip in full shackle in the back of a squad car for stepmommy. At the same time this was going down, we find out Daddy, Zahra`s natural father, has been thrown behind bars.

Natisha Lance also joining us from the field. Natisha, why was Daddy arrested? I`m looking for Natisha Lance. Natisha, are you with me?

Jean, can you tell me, do you know why he was arrested?

CASAREZ: I definitely do, Nancy. And at the very same time that they`re putting her in the squad car and taking her to that area half a mile from where she used to live, they are arresting the father. And Nancy, they found him at the international airport. He was picking somebody up, he said, that was coming in on a flight. He voluntarily went to the police department. And at a little after 3:00 o`clock this morning, he was taken into custody and charged with five counts of worthless checks and three counts of failure to appear.

GRACE: OK, let me get this timeline, Jean Casarez. You`re telling me he is in police custody at 3:00 AM?

CASAREZ: Yes.

GRACE: OK. And then pre-dawn, say 5:00 or 6:00 o`clock, they yank Mommy, they roust her out of her private jail cell and drag her down to this creek bed, near where she used to live. Did Daddy say something that made them suspicious about this location, Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: The timeline is very, very close. And they found him at the international airport. He went back to police. He was in custody a little after 3:00. Several hours later, they put her in an SUV out to this wooded area.

GRACE: Back to John Miller with "The Hickory Daily Record," joining us at Granite Falls at a new search site. Tonight, has there been a break in the search for 10-year-old Zahra? John, who was he picking up at the airport?

MILLER: We`re trying to find that out. We`re not quite sure. We recognize that he was there and left there and immediately went to the police headquarters to be interviewed. And there he was arrested and put into custody. We`re still trying to find that out, but we also know...

GRACE: John, who said he was picking somebody up? How do we know he was picking somebody up? How do we know he wasn`t trying to leave?

MILLER: That`s what we`re trying to verify. I mean, he told officials, he told authorities that he was there to pick someone up.

GRACE: Of course he did!

MILLER: He went there (INAUDIBLE) to see them...

GRACE: Of course he said, I`m picking somebody up. What else could he say when cops confront him at an international airport? Of course he`s going to say, I`m here picking somebody up. Who? That`s what I want to know. Who? Somebody he made up? You don`t have to have a ticket in hand when you go to the airport. You can get a ticket there!

MILLER: We realize that. That`s one of the reasons we`re checking out that information. There`s lots of information coming from a lot of different sources, and that`s one of the things we`re trying to do at "The Daily Record," before we publish anything, is to verify the information.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Jessica in Maryland. Hi, Jessica.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This thing -- this whole thing about the dad showing up at the airport -- it sounds like he was running away from something. It sounds like he knows more than what he`s saying.

GRACE: You know, I agree with you. Jean Casarez, come on! He`s in the middle of a search for his daughter`s remains, and he`s picking somebody up at the airport? You know, I`ve been to North Carolina many times. They have a great bus service. They got a great taxicab fleet. So why, in the middle of a search for his daughter`s body, is he picking up a friend at the airport? And what friend?

CASAREZ: And Nancy, look at the time. You know, I fly a lot. I don`t know flights that land in the morning hours, the early morning hours, unless a flight was detained because of weather. Flights don`t land after midnight. They just don`t.

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Wait a minute! Jean, you`re right. Because of blackout rules, flights don`t land. That`s why, for instance, you`re coming across country, you can`t leave, say, for instance, California until your flight will land around 5:30 or 6:00 AM. You don`t have flights coming in and out at 1:00, 2:00, 3:00, 4:00 o`clock in the morning, Jean.

CASAREZ: That`s right. Now, here`s the big question. How long did they interview him at the police department? That`s the question that will give us the answer that we need to know.

GRACE: Everybody, tonight, we learn that Zahra`s stepmother, the 10- year-old`s stepmother, roused out of her jail cell and taken to a new search site. Last time we`ve seen this is when Misty Croslin was dragged down to the riverbank. In the middle of all this, we find out Daddy thrown behind bars. Is there a break in the case? Have they found clues of Zahra`s body?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmother Elisa Baker has reportedly brought out to a new search area today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Near a home that Elisa lived in three years ago.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Inconsistencies developed over the course of this investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They resumed the search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Authorities are hoping to uncover new clues in the whereabouts of missing 10-year-old girl Zahra Baker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: Hickory police 911. Where`s your emergency?

BAKER: Yes, my daughter`s missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zahra`s father, Adam Baker, is in jail right now.

911 OPERATOR: Catawba County 911.

BAKER: Hi, how you doing?

911 OPERATOR: I`m good.

BAKER: I need police.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What an incriminating 911 call.

BAKER: (INAUDIBLE) a little while ago, it appears that they took my daughter instead of my boss`s daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Casual, disconnected father and stepmother.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stepmother Elisa Baker has reportedly been brought out to a new search area today.

BAKER: My daughter is, I think, coming into puberty, since she`s hitting that broody stage.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What 10-year-old broods?

GRACE: He even laughs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you think happened to Zahra?

BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need somebody outside the immediate family.

911 OPERATOR: No one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?

BAKER: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seems very lackadaisical about it.

BAKER: Everybody knows more than I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Has there been a break in the case? Police not confirming, not denying, won`t give us a word. This is what we know. Early in the predawn hours, around 3:00 AM, according to Jean Casarez with "In Session," Daddy is picked up at the international airport. He claims he`s picking up a friend. Who? Who`s flying in at 3:00 AM? Nobody. He`s thrown behind bars. About two hours later, Mommy is yanked out of her private jail cell and escorted in handcuffs in the back of a squad car to a densely wooded area and a deep creek bed.

Out to the lines. Dawn in Washington state. Hi, Dawn.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I was wondering, have they checked that wood chipper for DNA to see if maybe there might have been some trace of her put in that?

GRACE: To Jean Casarez. What do we know about the wood chipper? It took the forefront at the get-go. The cadaver dogs hit on it. But I don`t know if they were able to get any DNA off of it.

CASAREZ: We don`t know. They took samples from that wood chipper, but they haven`t released results so that`s still an open question. And Nancy, they`ve have taken so many samples from the car, from the house. Forensically speaking, they haven`t released those results.

GRACE: Come on, John Miller, "Hickory Daily Record," the night they finally report Zahra missing, they start a fire in their yard. Come on! I put it out there. Of course they started it. Number two, Mommy admits she wrote the phony ransom, the million-dollar ransom note, for what looked to be somebody else`s kid and left it on her car. Then you hear Daddy on the phone to 911 going, Gee, I guess they meant to take somebody else, but they must have taken Zahra. It was like he was reading, you know, a history textbook on ancient Egypt, the way he was so calm, like he was reading from a script. These people know where that little girl is!

MILLER: Nancy, there are so many unanswered questions that we constantly are asking our sources in the police departments and the sheriff departments what they can tell us. They`re not giving us a lot of information. And we think that that is primarily because they want to keep everything close to the vest until they are assured of having some evidence in this case.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. You all know Gloria Allred, attorney, victims` rights advocate out of LA, Christopher Amolsch, defense attorney, Washington, D.C., Carmen St. George, defense attorney, New York.

You know, Gloria, John Miller keeps talking to me about unanswered questions. I only have one unanswered question. Where did stepmommy hide the 10-year-old cancer survivor`s body? That`s my only question tonight. Do you have a question, Gloria? Do you have a question other than that?

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIMS` RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Well, yes, I have a question about what she knows and whether or not there was any participation by Zahra`s father in whatever happened to Zahra. And my guess is that they`re taking her down there because either she`s decided to cooperate by providing some information, or they hope that when she gets there, she may decide to provide some information.

GRACE: Come on, Christopher Amolsch! Did he know? Gloria`s really giving him the benefit of the doubt. Did you hear him on that 911 call? He blamed -- practically blamed his own daughter, saying she`s broody because she`s going through puberty. BS. He knows!

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think he knows. I think he`d probably trade in his own mother to get out of trouble.

GRACE: Right.

AMOLSCH: What probably happened is he said, you know, How about go here, go there, look there, so the police dragged her down there. There`s nothing there, and he`s going to come up with something else. But he would trade in anybody to get out of trouble.

GRACE: Carmen St. George, come on, tell me something at least a tiny bit believable.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I think that -- you know, there`s -- he`s got relatives in Australia. He might have been at the airport to pick them up. But something he gave to the police led them to go to his wife to have her bring them to the scene. She`s about to really cooperate in this investigation, is what I think.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam, did you have any involvement in her disappearance?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Adam Baker was arrested at the Hickory police station.

BAKER: The police were out here last night (INAUDIBLE) and a ransom note for my boss`s daughter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This guy is reading a script.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simply not checking on your own daughter.

911 OPERATOR: The prosthetic leg was taken with her?

BAKER: Yes, ma`am.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports emerge police have brought Zahra`s stepmother from the jail to a new search location just hours ago.

911 OPERATOR: She has one -- one leg?

BAKER: One leg, yes, ma`am.

911 OPERATOR: (INAUDIBLE) amputated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don`t believe him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I want to go out to Pat Brown, criminal profiler, author of "The Profiler." Pat, come on! There`s no doubt in my mind that these two are responsible for little Zahra`s death. She hasn`t been sold. She hasn`t been given away. She hasn`t been adopted away. She`s dead. They murdered a 10-year-old little girl with a prosthetic leg and two hearing aids who survived bone and lung cancer. They murdered her. Either one did it, or they both did it, but I know they both knew about it. Weigh in.

PAT BROW, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Absolutely. Elisa Baker pretty much said that when she said she wrote that ransom note, so that put her right there. And Adam Baker -- that 911 call, he was only trying to convince people that he didn`t know what happened. That was the purpose of the phone call.

And he`s been hinting ever since the beginning that she had something to do with it, and now I bet he`s down there hinting where she might have put the body. So he`s not going to say he knows, but he`s going to hint at, Oh, she might have -- maybe near where she lives. So yes, he`s totally involved. All they`re looking for is the body.

GRACE: And what significance do you attach to the fact that Daddy`s arrested at the international airport around 3:00 AM? And Jean made the perfect observation that flights are not coming in or leaving at that time. That was all BS. He went there in the dark of night, trying to get a ticket. That`s my take on it. And then a couple hours later, Mommy`s hauled out of a jail cell to go look at a creek bed.

BROWN: Well, he`s stupid, for one thing, because they`re watching him. They`re going to make sure he`s not going to run the country. Did he have his passport with him? That`s what I`m real curious about. They found that passport with him, straight on down to the jail cell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911 OPERATOR: No one has seen your daughter since 2:30 this morning?

BAKER: No. Like I said, we had all that drama last night, and we -- me and my wife went back to bed. And my daughter`s, I think, coming into puberty, so she`s hitting that broody stage. So we only see her when she comes out -- when she wants something, and that`s about it.

911 OPERATOR: Did you say that she was handicapped?

BAKER: Yes, ma`am. She has...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED 911 DISPATCHER: How long has she been missing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We checked in there last night about 2:30 and she was there.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Zahra`s stepmom, Elisa Baker, was taken from jail to the newest search site.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She says that she is not a killer.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just hours after her husband, Zahra`s father, Adam Baker, was arrested.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Her parents said they last saw her at 2:30 Saturday morning.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: You think your wife might have had some involvement in all this?

ADAM BAKER, FATHER OF MISSING 10-YEAR-OLD GIRL ZAHRA BAKER: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: No sign of Zahra.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He seems concerned.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Dad says he hasn`t seen her since Thursday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know how sincere his concern is.

CHIEF TOM ATKINS, HICKORY POLICE: The search is going to be a very methodical and time-intensive search.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 10-year-old Zahra Baker.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: We are taking your calls live. Out to Pat in New York. Hi, Pat.

PAT, CALLER FROM NEW YORK: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

PAT: Well, I definitely agree with you. This father was definitely involved in this, and I just want to know, do you think he -- they would just arrested him to try to make him break and if neither one of them break, or if she just breaks, would he still be arrested for knowing about it? Because I`m sure he knew about this.

GRACE: Well, you know what, for those of you just joining us, in the last hours, daddy, the biological father of this 10-year-old little girl, a cancer survivor dependent on a prosthetic leg and two hearing aids as a result of cancer treatments, disappeared.

The biodad is caught at the international airport there in North Carolina around 3:00 a.m. He claims he was picking up a friend. Couple of hours after that, the stepmommy is rousted out of her private jail cell, thrown in the back of a squad car in handcuffs and taken to a densely wooded area and a deep creek bed.

And coincidentally, Jean Casarez, wasn`t it about one mile from a home where she used to live?

JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Or even less than a mile, Nancy, from where Elisa Baker lived three years ago.

GRACE: And back to Pat in New York`s question, Jean Casarez, do you think that she`s going -- that dad`s arrested to make him crack? Does he know something? Because he`s only arrested on bad checks, pretty much like mommy but let`s take a look.

Look at tot mom, Casey Anthony. She was arrested on stealing checks, bad checks, remember that video of her buying beer and pushup bras while her daughter was missing, and she was using bad checks at the time? She went behind bars.

You`ve got Misty Croslin, who was thrown behind bars on drug charges, hoping she would crack. And amazingly, in a lot of cases, when people are thrown behind bars, kind of like a meat tenderizer, it works.

What do you think, Jean? Is that the ploy?

CASAREZ: I think we need to look at the timeline, because Adam Baker is saying he was at the international airport to pick somebody up. We don`t know exactly what time, but we know police met him there.

They transported him voluntarily back to the police station. He was put in custody at 3:12 a.m. this morning. And then shortly after that, that`s when Zahra Baker`s stepmother, Elisa Baker, was taken via SUV to this densely wooded area.

GRACE: To Lisa in Louisiana, hi, Lisa. What`s your question, dear?

LISA, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Yes, hi, Nancy. My question is I agree with you, there is no way that she was abusing the child and the father didn`t see, or you know her face and ask questions, so to me, I agree.

I think he was in on it, and then like y`all were saying about the cutter, the trimmer, how is it that, you know, they hit on it but yet, nothing came up? How would he know? So I believe that he maybe got rid of the body and she wrote the note but I believe there`s both of them in on it.

I don`t think one parent did all the bad things and he didn`t know or he wasn`t part of it.

GRACE: You know what, Lisa in Louisiana, you are dead on. I mean it`s like the three monkeys sitting there, see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. B.S. If one was doing it, the other knew about it.

Now, out to Katherine Smirling -- Dr. Katherine Smirling, psychologist joining us out of New York. You know like when the man`s having an affair and the wife doesn`t want to know, all the signs are there, lipstick on the collar, he comes in smelling like angel perfume, blah, blah, blah, blah.

You just don`t want to know. You don`t want to put two and two together. I guess that`s possible. But I don`t think it`s probable. And something that escalated, if neighbors and relatives were noticing the abuse, how come he didn`t notice it?

DR. KATHERINE SMIRLING, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think he noticed it. If he didn`t notice it, then the two big D`s were involved -- drinking and drugs. And he might also be a sociopath, which means that he has a disconnect from really what is going on in the world.

But this is hardly the picture of a grieving dad, Nancy. This is a picture of a man who has serious problems and is trying possibly to flee the country.

GRACE: To Dr. Michael Arnall, board certified forensic pathologist joining us out of Denver.

Dr. Arnall, I want to talk to you about prosthetic -- prosthetics. Is -- like can you get on a leg, a make, model and serial number, and trace that back to a particular person like a car, like a VIN number?

DR. MICHAEL ARNALL, BOARD CERTIFIED FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Yes, I would imagine that that orthopedic equipment has a unique serial number so that if that equipment is found or if the metal parts are found, that will have the unique serial number that they can identify with the child.

GRACE: Back to John Miller, standing by at a new search site there in Granite Falls, North Carolina. What can you tell us about the landfill, John Miller? New updates on that search?

JOHN MILLER, EDITOR, HICKORY DAILY RECORD: They were searching that same landfill again today, Nancy. They searched it for four days last week. Friday they told us that was the end of the search but again today, they were there.

What my reporter and my photographer tell me, that they did the not take anything from that site when they left, but they still may return there tomorrow morning. We don`t know for sure. We`re going to be there to find out.

But we do know they were there again today after searching for four consecutive days last week.

GRACE: So, John Miller, bottom line is, there`s something that they believe is there at that landfill and they keep going back and going back. They say it`s over then they go back again. They`re coming back tomorrow.

MILLER: We don`t know for sure if they`re coming back tomorrow, but it`s not out of the question. One of the things about landfill searches, and I think your experts have said this, is that they are very complicated and we know that at this landfill, they`re putting in about 1200 tons of garbage a day so there`s a lot of work to be done.

Perhaps they didn`t complete it all last week. They might have gotten some additional information that got them back to the site today.

GRACE: And, Jean Casarez, what can you tell me about, you know, you have the timeline down and tonight we`re hearing it`s not just coincidence, Jean Casarez, that in about the 48 hours before they finally report the little girl is disappeared out of her bedroom, they get rid of a family mattress?

CASAREZ: Well, this is new information. It`s brand new information. Nancy, all last week we heard about this piece of evidence they were trying to find. They finally admitted they`re trying to find Zahra`s mattress, and they believe the family got rid of her mattress shortly before she was reported missing, so that video, Nancy, that we have looked at so intensely of that mattress coming out of the house, is this a new mattress?

GRACE: To Steve Kardian, former police detective, lead instructor at Defend University. Weigh in, Steve.

STEVE KARDIAN, FMR. POLICE DETECTIVE, SELF-DEFENSE EXPERT, LEAD INSTRUCTOR AT DEFEND UNIVERSITY: Nancy, the cadaver dogs hit on the vehicles at that house. There`s an item missing from the home, if not multiple items, one that`s been identified as the mattress. That mattress is going to be found to contain DNA evidence that is going to be damaging to the case.

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls. To Connie in Indiana. Hi, Connie.

CONNIE, CALLER FROM INDIANA: First of all, I want to say you and Marc Klaas are going to have a bunch of jewels in your crowns when you get to the other side.

GRACE: God willing.

CONNIE: And thank you for -- oh, thank you for all that you do for these little victims. But I wanted to know, does anybody know if they had a life insurance on Zahra, because I`m sure the hospital bills were staggering.

GRACE: Good question. What do we know, John Miller?

MILLER: We don`t have an answer to that question. That`s one of the things that we`re trying to search out here at the "Daily Record." We`ve got a reporter here working constantly on the back story of Zahra`s life. We`re going to try to find out as much as we can.

GRACE: To tonight`s case alert. As we go to air tonight, Colorado police I.D. a body found in a ravine this weekend. It is a gorgeous psychic. We told you about her last week. She vanished without a trace. 57-year-old Kathy Adams reported missing, Ft. Collins, death, homicide. Blunt force trauma.

Investigators announce finding evidence of foul play in her home. Her car abandoned at a local motel. Now cops on the lookout for her husband, John Marks, Jr.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: This woman you`re looking at, this is a mother from Reading, Pennsylvania.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Michele Kalina`s husband claimed his wife had looked pregnant in the past.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She`s accused of killing five of her babies.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A product of an extramarital affair Kalina had been having for years.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And hiding some of their tiny bodies in a closet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The tub was filled with concrete when you lifted of the top of the tub.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Forensic teams chiseled away the cement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m going to describe it as a mass. There was something within this tub.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Resting inside --

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Were babies, who were born alive and later killed by their own mother.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 44-year-old Michele Kalina was charged with criminal homicide.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Kalina was actually pregnant by another man many times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The remains were all badly decomposed, skeletal remains.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: This nurses` aide and mother of two had turned her own home into a morgue. Unbeknownst to her husband and her teenage daughter, they were all infants. Five babies that she murdered. Why? To cover up a 14- year affair.

Hey, 14 years, go ahead and get a divorce, lady.

Out to Melissa Fullerton, reporter, WFMZ, Allentown. Melissa, what happened?

MELISSA FULLERTON, REPORTER, WFMZ: Well, Nancy, this is a case that has really been unfolding here since July. That`s when police got the initial call from Michele Kalina`s teenage daughter saying that she found something in their family apartment.

She thought it looked like human remains but she wasn`t sure. Police went, initially they said no, this isn`t human remains, and asked the daughter to dispose of them. And then the daughter again found more remains, asked the police to come back. And that`s when the coroner`s office got involved.

Initially, they had told us there were two sets of human remains in that closet. Then just a couple of weeks later, after Michele Kalina was arrested, they said that they had found this container that was filled with cement. They thought that there were more human remains in there.

Today, we learned the most of the story that we have heard so far, that indeed there were five sets of human remains in all.

GRACE: So five babies murdered. Let me guess, Holly Herman -- Holly joining u from the "Reading Eagle," joining us out of reading, Pennsylvania. Asphyxiation? What about it, Holly?

HOLLY HERMAN, REPORTER, THE READING EAGLE: The coroner said that the death was a result of violence. It could have been asphyxiation, it could have been poisoning. He doesn`t know for sure. He`s done autopsies on all five of these remains and determined that it was very violent.

GRACE: To Alexis Weed, our producer on the story. Alexis, now she is a mother of two other children, one is a teenage daughter, the other was a young son who passed away they say by natural causes.

So I got to question. How old was the son when he passed away and what was the natural cause of his death?

ALEXIS WEED, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Nancy, he was 13 years old and this was back in 2000 when he passed away. And according to the autopsy report, he died of positional asphyxiation. But it was ruled an accident.

GRACE: Well, you know what that means? It means he was like face down. Didn`t he have cerebral palsy?

WEED: He did, Nancy.

GRACE: Positional asphyxiation. Dr. Michael Arnall, doesn`t that mean like you`re sleeping in a pillow or something like that, positional asphyxiation?

ARNALL: That`s exactly what it means. And it may well be the case that he --

GRACE: She killed him.

ARNALL: -- slipped off the bed with his -- he may have slipped off the bed and got caught between the mattress and the wall.

GRACE: Unleash the lawyers. Gloria Allred, L.A., Christopher Amolsch, Washington, D.C., Carmen St. George, New York.

Gloria, please. Here`s a lady that`s killed five children to cover up a 14-year affair, and you want to tell me the 10-year-old died of natural causes? Please.

GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Yes, well, the 13-year-old, I hope that they will reopen that case and investigate and see whether or not it was an accidental death or whether there was something even worse.

GRACE: What about it, Christopher? Agree or disagree with Gloria Allred?

CHRISTOPHER AMOLSCH, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I think they`ll probably going to find out that the 13-year-old son died of suspicious causes as well. This woman has a history of doing this. She looks nuts to me just from seeing her on TV.

GRACE: She`s not nuts, Carmen St. George. Don`t even start up the crazy talk with me. You know absolutely nothing about this, Amolsch.

What about it, St. George? I mean, come on, Amolsch, St. George, you`re 2,000 miles away from her and you think she`s crazy. What? Did you divine that out of the top of the studio? How did you come up with that, Amolsch?

AMOLSCH: Well, anybody who --

GRACE: She looks crazy?

AMOLSCH: Anybody who kills their kids and keeps them in a bathtub, I mean, you got to have some serious concerns about their mental stability right off the get-go, don`t you?

GRACE: Uh, no, not in the legal sense. Carmen St. George, people ask me all the time when there`s a child murder, what was the motive?

I want to see St. George.

Carmen, don`t try to talk around me on this. Give me one good motive for child murder. Listening. Not hearing.

CARMEN ST. GEORGE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, I don`t know what kind of motive she could have to kill five children as a mother. I think it`s devastating. But I think we may come to find out that she`s ill but the problem is, she was able to function and have a job where people will say the opposite so I think she`s in for some trouble here.

GRACE: Not only that, the murders of five children that we know of to cover up a 14-year sex affair.

Joining me right now out of Reading is a special guest, John Adams. He is the district attorney out of Berks County.

John Adams, thank you for being with us. It`s kind of hard for me to take in murdering five children. Hey, I`m not talking about finding out you`re pregnant and getting an abortion. That is legal in this country.

You know, fight about it if you want to, but that`s not the case here. And I`m not here to argue yes, no about abortion. What I`m here talking about is five infants, babies, children she murdered. And you`re telling us you believe the motive was to cover up a sex affair?

I can`t believe it, John.

JOHN ADAMS, DISTRICT ATTORNEY, BERKS COUNTY: Well, Nancy, we don`t know the motive and we don`t need to know the motive to prove murder.

GRACE: You`re right.

ADAMS: And -- but we do believe that she murdered these children, and it was just an awful, awful crime that she committed.

GRACE: You know what, John Adams? You`re absolutely right.

John Adams joining us out of Reading, Pennsylvania, the district attorney there in Berks County. He says, we don`t have to prove motive.

You`re dead on, John Adams. Of course, I can`t tell you anything. You`ve been practicing criminal law for year and years.

To Gloria Allred, the state is not required to prove motive. How is the state supposed to crawl in some perv`s head and figure out why they -- why they killed five children.

ALLRED: Right, Nancy. The state doesn`t have to prove motive, but often it`s helpful if they can find a motive because that can help I.D. the perpetrator of the crimes.

GRACE: You are correct. I want to go back to Holly Herman, "Reading Eagle."

Holly, what can you tell me about this 14-year affair? And also, how can her husband not know she`s pregnant? One, two, three, four, five times. I mean, it`s pretty obvious.

HERMAN: When she first started dating her husband in 1996 and her husband -- and her stomach started to grow a bit, Kalina said that she had a cyst on her fallopian tubes. Then the boyfriend said he noticed that this was appearing as many as four times over the 14-year affair which, you know, started in 1996 and may have continued --

GRACE: What about it, Pat Brown? Do you think the -- he really believed she had that many cysts?

PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "THE PROFILER": I do think so. And this woman does not -- she was not covering up an affair, she could have had an abortion. Use birth control. She`s a serial killer, a Munchausen syndrome by proxy lady. And she has a number one job they all have, which is nurse`s aid at a nursing home at that late night shift. I would look there for some homicides as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There`s something within this tub.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Keeping four of the five infants` remains inside a closet and stored in coolers.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As the gruesome investigation creeps forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think shocking is another adjective that could be used for this discovery.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In all instances the infant had been wrapped and then placed in the bags.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police say Kalina kept the bones and human remains in the closet.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: One of the children allegedly kept in a paper bag.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls. I want to go back out to Melissa Fullerton, WFMZ, Allentown, Pennsylvania.

Melissa, what`s the next step?

FULLERTON: The next step from here, Nancy, will be a couple of things. They`re going to keep doing some DNA testing. There was one of the bodies that they weren`t 100 percent sure who the father of that child was because the remains were so badly decomposed.

So there will be some more DNA tests. And then today the district attorney alluded to the fact that somewhere down the line there will have to be a psychological evaluation for Michele Kalina.

GRACE: OK. Melissa, are you telling me they don`t know who the father is?

FULLERTON: No, no. They don`t know who the father is on at least three of those corpses. And on one of the other ones they say it`s a strong possibility that he is the father. So four of five they`re pretty sure that the boyfriend of Michele Kalina is the father. Now on the fifth, the corpse or the remains that were --

GRACE: OK. And to you, Pat Brown, 14 years of an affair. Why not just get a divorce?

BROWN: Well, it has nothing to do with an affair. She is a serial killer. She kept the bodies around as souvenirs. And she loved to manipulate, to be able to get pregnant, and then tell everybody she wasn`t, and then have the baby and kill it.

That`s the thrill that these women get out. It`s called Munchausen syndrome by proxy to the worst degree.

GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember Navy Hospital Corpsman 3rd Class Travis Youngblood, 26, Surrency, Georgia, killed Iraq. Awarded the Purple Heart, Navy Commendation, National Defense Service medal, Iraq Campaign medal. Buried at Arlington National Cemetery.

Volunteered to serve in place of his wife so she could take care of their little boy. Loved his family, his country, being a father. Leaves behind heartbroken parents Deborah and Elmer, a Navy vet, brother E.J., widow Laura also served the Navy, son Hunter, daughter Emma he never got to meet.

Travis Youngblood, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night. 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END