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NANCY GRACE

Utah Cops and Volunteers Search Abandoned Mine Shaft for Susan Powell

Aired October 7, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, live, Utah, the mystery surrounding the sudden disappearance of a gorgeous young stockbroker, mother of two, 28-year-old Susan Powell, last seen when Daddy suddenly announces, midnight on a Sunday night, he`s taking her boys, ages 4 and 2, camping in the snow. Repeat, camping, midnight, freezing temperatures. Then Daddy says when they get back home Mommy`s gone, vanished.

Bombshell tonight. The search for Susan Powell back on after explosive reports a 4-year-old boy says, quote, "Mommy`s in the mine, looking for crystals." At this hour, as we go to air, search teams scouring abandoned mine shafts near the family home, as we learn husband/Daddy was obsessed with TV crime shows. He informs a key witness that a deep, dark mine shaft is the single best place to dispose of a body. Is the body of 28-year-old mother of two Susan Powell waiting to be discovered, buried deep in one of the thousands of abandoned mines in just a few miles radius of the family`s Utah home?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Search teams have been scouring.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An abandoned mine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve-hundred-foot drop.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searching for a missing mom of two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan Cox Powell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 28-year-old Powell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan Powell simply disappeared without a trace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The husband said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Josh`s story.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He and their two kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Camping.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were on a camping trip.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that where you were camping?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say the case is very suspicious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) suspicious.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t do anything. I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where she`s at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just miss her.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any idea what happened to her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: And tonight, live, Illinois, a 3-month-old baby boy and his father disappear. Daddy picks the baby up from day care, they say heading to the baby doctor. They never show. Tonight, Mommy frantic, reporting large amounts of breast milk and diapers taken from the home. At this hour, APB on a 2003 black Volkswagen Beetle, Illinois tags. What has become of 3-month-old baby Jackson (ph)?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. Police searching for 3-and-a-half- month-old infant Jackson Miller. His father, Chris (ph) Miller, picks him up from day care and was supposed to take him to a doctor`s appointment, but never makes it to the doctor`s office. Adding (ph) concern, Jackson`s mom says her husband took a larger amount of breast milk and diapers than would have been needed for the rest of the day. Why? Police say the two likely driving in a 2003 black Volkswagen Beetle and could be headed to Louisville, Kentucky, where Miller has family. Police have now entered the information into the Leeds (ph) police database, hoping to find Jackson Miller and reunite a frantic mother with her 3-and-a-half-month-old baby boy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Live, Utah, the search for mother of two 28- year-old Susan Powell back on after explosive reports her 4-year-old little boy says, quote, "Mommy`s in the mine, looking for crystals."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you have any idea what happened to her?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She just went to bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Searches for Susan Powell now in high gear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) close to West Valley.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Volunteer searchers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Carefully inspecting old silver mines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say it`s a likely place where Susan Cox Powell may be.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crawling through smaller tunnels, doing small rapels.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twelve hundred feet down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve got some other shafts we need to search.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-eight-year-old Powell simply disappeared from her home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the middle of the night.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A lot of times, I just go camping with my boys overnight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) confused.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "The National Enquirer" reports one of Susan Powell`s young sons allegedly blurted out, Mommy is in the mine, looking for crystals.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My boys love her. They`ve been doing good, as far as I can tell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports also reveal Josh Powell allegedly told a friend.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The best place to dispose of a body would be a deep, dark mine shaft.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: But first, breaking news, Idaho. Paramedics racing to a Post Falls neighborhood, a 911 call for a 3-year-old toddler boy unresponsive. Baby-sitter says while changing the toddler`s wet diaper, he goes limp. An emergency CT scan tonight confirms bleeding skull fracture. All we know right now, the baby wets himself and now he`s in intensive care. Skull fracture, bleeding to the brain over wet pants? No! We want answers!

Straight out to Spokane, Washington. Meghann Cuniff is with us from "The Spokesman Review." Meghann, what happened?

MEGHANN CUNIFF, "THE SPOKESMAN REVIEW" (via telephone): Well, Nancy, we have a 3-year-old boy who`s fighting for his life at a hospital right now. His baby-sitter is the only suspect in this. Police say she admitted to pushing him to the ground after he wet his pants. She said that she became frustrated and angry with him and shoved him, and that caused him to hit his head and caused some pretty traumatic head injury.

GRACE: No! No! No, Meghann! It doesn`t happen that way! I change wet diapers all day long. I change diapers standing in urine! It doesn`t happen. You don`t shove a child this age who`s two feet tall and they have a skull fracture and bleeding to the brain.

To Dr. Marty Makary, joining us out of Johns Hopkins, physician and professor of public health, Washington, D.C. Marty, no! This is a lie!

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, JOHNS HOPKINS: This is the hallmark of child abuse. It`s a force that`s disproportionate to the frustration level. And with skull fractures, if you land in a certain place on the head or fall on a certain place on the skull, a bleeding vessel can cause a massive internal bleed and a massive concussion. And you can have...

GRACE: Makary...

MAKARY: ... problems for a long time.

GRACE: ... Makary, Makary! Doctor, are you telling me that a baby that is just standing there that falls over, that`s standing up and falls over, is going to get a skull fracture and bleeding to the brain?

MAKARY: If a child is pushed and lands in a certain place where the blood vessels run along the skull, it can cause serious internal bleeding that will surprise almost anybody.

GRACE: Well, I`m telling you, Doctor, you`ve got an MD, I`ve got a Justice Department, I`ll take you on in court on that because I do not believe this child has a skull fracture from falling over from a standing position. The kid`s only maximum three feet tall. I don`t believe it!

MAKARY: They would need to be pushed.

GRACE: Meghann Cuniff is joining us from "The Spokesman Review." Meghann Cuniff, what more can you tell me?

CUNIFF: Well, police are awaiting the outcome of the child. They say that he underwent surgery. He was rushed by helicopter to a hospital over here in Spokane, which is about 20, 25 miles away from where he was injured. They say he underwent surgery, but he remains in critical condition. I got off the phone with them probably about an hour ago. They said there`s been no change in his condition and that they`re awaiting to see what happens with him before they file charges against this woman.

GRACE: Out to the lines. Out to Emily. Hi, Emily. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. What I`d like to know is -- I`d like to make a comment. I hope they throw the book at this lady. And second of all, how long did they know this sitter? And second of all, what -- had she watched -- how long had she watched their child?

GRACE: Good question. Back to Meghann Cuniff from "The Spokesman Review," joining us out of Spokane. Meghann, who is this baby-sitter? She`s 25 years old. How long has she been baby-sitting for little Cohen?

CUNIFF: Yes, she`s 25. Police said she`s been watching the boy for about six months or so, and she`s known the family for about a year.

GRACE: And where were Mommy and Daddy?

CUNIFF: That`s unclear. That information has not been released by police. They haven`t released much information about the boy`s identity or anything like that.

GRACE: Meghann, is the boy going to live?

CUNIFF: They don`t know, Nancy. They say that`s still very up in the air. They`re just not sure. He`s in very critical condition.

GRACE: Everyone tonight, Cohen Johnson, just 3 years old, in critical condition. As of right now, police are not releasing the baby-sitter`s name. This is out of Idaho, Post Falls, Idaho, 25 miles east of Spokane, Washington. We`ll bring you the very latest as we get it in.

But right now, we are headed back, headed back to Susan Powell. Is there finally a break in the case? We all know that she is reported missing when her husband gets back from a, let me say, impromptu camping trip at midnight, in freezing temperatures. He says he gets home and she`s gone.

Now we learn a neighbor, a key witness in this case, says the husband is a crime story freak and has often discussed the best way to hide a dead body. Now the 4-year-old little boy, in an explosive revelation, says that, "Mommy is in the mine, looking for crystals."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 28-year-old Powell simply disappeared from her home, leaving her cell phone and car behind.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: While there are reports the couple was in marriage counseling, family and friends say Susan would never leave her children. Police executed a search warrant on the home and say they`re conducting forensic testing on items taken during the alleged search.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to the calls. And first to Jim Kirkwood with KTKK News Radio. What can you tell me, Jim?

JIM KIRKWOOD, KTKK NEWS RADIO (VIA TELEPHONE): Nancy, you`re quite right. This is a bombshell. The police have been holding this one close to their vest, and finally it`s leaked out. There is a group here, the Mojave Group, that has been searching some of these caves. But some of these things are really deep, Nancy, I mean, really -- half a mile or more.

GRACE: OK, how many -- you`re seeing video -- well, you were seeing video of the mine shafts in which searchers are looking right now. This is after the 4-year-old little boy announces, "Mommy is in the mine, looking for crystals. We are just learning about this. The search is ongoing right now, search teams looking at mines within a few miles radius of Susan Cox Powell`s home.

To you, Jim Kirkwood, joining us, KTKK News Radio out of Salt Lake City. When did the little boy say this?

KIRKWOOD: Apparently, he said it right after everything happened. December 7th was when she went missing last year, so about 10 months ago. And he said it to police, but they -- they`ve done some searching, but I don`t think they have the budget to really look like they should.

GRACE: Everyone, right now, search teams going down in mines a few miles radius from Susan Cox Powell`s home. This is after her 4-year-old little boy announces, "Mommy is in the mine, looking for crystals." Is her body waiting to be discovered buried deep in one of these mines?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New developments in the Susan Powell investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Twenty-eight-year-old Powell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Susan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simply disappeared from her home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was gone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nowhere to be found.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Without a trace.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: New searches take place deep inside Utah mines.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So far, the group has looked inside abandoned mines near Dugway and Eureka.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They`re close to West Valley. They`re centered around the area of Susan, where she went missing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Reports also reveal Josh Powell.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just miss her and we want her back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allegedly told a friend at a 2008 Christmas party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The best place to dispose of a body would be a deep, dark mine shaft.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s somewhere.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The latest mine searches using high-tech video.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve been trying to figure out what I can do, so I don`t sit idle.

CHUCK COX, MISSING WOMAN`S FATHER: It`s also frustrating that he`s not talking with the police and helping them find our daughter. I do believe he knows something he`s not telling us. And at this point, the -- the pointing the fingers at Joshua -- I don`t want to do that. At the same time, the person -- all his actions are inconsistent with somebody who cares about his wife, and so it gives me great pause.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: At this hour, search teams are scouring mines, mine shafts in the radius surrounding Susan Cox Powell`s home. This after her 4-year-old little boy says, "Mommy is in the mine, looking for crystals." Where did he get that?

Joining me right now and taking your calls, a very special guest, Chuck Cox. This is Susan Cox Powell`s father. He`s joining us from Puwalla (ph), Washington. Mr. Cox, thank you for being with us. What do you make of the mine searches?

COX (via telephone): Thank you, Nancy. Well, I`m glad they`re being done. I know the police have searched some mines, but I am glad people are willing to take the extra effort and take a really good look down the mines.

GRACE: Mr. Cox, is it true that the father, Joshua Powell, is not letting you see the children?

COX: Well, he`s asked that we only contact him via e-mail. We`ve requested to see the children. He hasn`t responded to our e-mail. The last time we saw them was on April 10th.

GRACE: That`s quite a while. Where are they living now?

COX: They`re still living with Joshua Powell, and I believe he`s living with his father.

GRACE: What about the home that he shared with Susan? Has it been sold?

COX: I don`t know.

GRACE: Do you have any contact with the little boys at all? Do you get to talk to them on the phone?

COX: No, not at all. They`ve asked that we don`t call the house and we don`t come by.

GRACE: Why?

COX: I don`t know. All I can think is, he doesn`t want us talking to them and he doesn`t want to face us or talk to us about anything.

GRACE: OK. Unleash the lawyers. We are taking your calls live. With me, Eleanor Odom, felony prosecutor, death penalty-qualified, Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney, author of "How Can You Defend Those People?" and Peter Odom, defense attorney, Atlanta.

Weigh in, Eleanor.

ELEANOR ODOM, PROSECUTOR: Well, Nancy, it`s really awful that the grandparents can`t see their child. They could go to superior court and ask for some visitation, and at the very least, have supervised visitation through the Department of Family and Children`s Services.

GRACE: OK, Peter Odom, get this picture. A Christmas party. Think about the Christmas parties that have you every year, everybody standing around, having punch, little cheese balls. And suddenly, Joshua Powell starts talking about the best place to hide a dead body, down a mine shaft. Ever heard that brought up at a Christmas party? Have you, Peter?

PETER ODOM, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I haven`t, Nancy. But let`s not condemn this man. If the police had enough evidence to arrest him for anything, they would have arrested him.

GRACE: Now, that`s not what I asked you!

PETER ODOM: Now, I`ll grant you...

GRACE: That`s not what I asked you!

PETER ODOM: And I answered your question. The answer is no. Now, this man`s actions are suspicious, I grant you that. But there`s not enough to arrest him for anything. And he has...

GRACE: Not yet.

PETER ODOM: ... no obligation to talk to the police.

GRACE: Mickey Sherman, a crime show aficionado spouting off where to hide a dead body -- you know, Mickey, in all the times you and I have ever discussed murder cases, crime cases on and off the air -- and it`s been more than I can count -- I don`t think there`s one time we sat down and said, Let`s plan the perfect murder and the perfect disposal of a body. That just doesn`t come up in normal conversation.

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It depends on how much alcohol we`ve had, frankly. But you know...

GRACE: I`m not kidding, Mickey!

SHERMAN: Well, you know, the problem is, talking about crime show stuff is not enough for an arrest warrant, and nor is the 4-year-old`s comment. It makes it a good starting point, but it doesn`t make you guilty.

GRACE: We are taking your calls.

As we go to break, to tonight`s "Case Alert." A rural Tennessee home owner whose home burns to the ground after she fails to pay a $75 fee. Firefighters stand by and watch after Paulette (ph) and Gene Kranak (ph) frantically call 911, their home going up in flames. Because the couple lives outside city limits they have to pay a yearly protection fee. They`ve always paid it, forgot to make this year`s payment. Talk about red tape and bureaucracy! Did nobody care about doing the right thing? They stand by on their fire truck and let the home go up in flames! What a heart-breaker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This tragedy was not the fault of the South Portland (ph) fire department or the city of South Portland, but rather the failure...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just hadn`t gotten around to paying yet. But you know, if they`d waived it one year, why couldn`t they do it the next year? You know, people around here know us. They know that we`re honest people and that we would come in and pay it. They know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Josh Powell says he took his two young sons camping in the middle of the night in freezing temperatures.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just go camping with my boys, you know, not anything big. I just go overnight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When they left the house, that`s the last time Powell says he saw his wife, Susan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn`t do anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The search for Susan Powell is now in high gear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know where she`s at.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Volunteer searchers carefully inspecting old silver mines. Police have yet to find Susan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Clark Goldband, our producer on the story. What more can you tell me about this mine search?

CLARK GOLDBAND, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, the two mines that we know that have been searched are silver mines. They`re about 20 to 50 miles away from where Powell went camping. We know they dropped a camera down these mine shafts, over 1,000 feet, searching for any clues that could potentially point to where Susan may be.

GRACE: Back to Jim Kirkwood, KTKK News Radio, joining us out of Salt Lake. Jim, at the time she went missing, did cops use canine, cadaver, bloodhound dogs? What, if anything, did they find?

KIRKWOOD: What they did was that -- if you remember, the carpet was up. It was wet, and they had fans on it and they took samples. They were looking for blood, arterial blood, that sort of thing. And they`ve never released what they found. Obviously, they didn`t find anything because they haven`t been able to proceed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Speculation comes from Josh`s story that he took his 2 and 4-year-old sons camping in the freezing cold of the West Deserts on the night Susan disappeared from their West Valley home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just miss her, and we want her back and -- and...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Do you have any idea what happened to her?

JOSHUA POWELL, HUSBAND OF MISSING MOM SUSAN COX-POWELL: No. Thank you. Any help to try to find her would be appreciated.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: West Valley Police say Joshua Powell remains their only person of interest in Susan`s disappearance.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Speculation comes from Josh`s story that he took his 2- and 4-year-old sons camping in the freezing cold of the west deserts on the night Susan disappeared from their West Valley home.

POWELL: A lot of times I just go camping with my boys. (INAUDIBLE), I just go overnight. And we do S`mores and stuff like that.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: I know there was quite a huge effort out in the west desert looking for any sign of her. Is that where you were camping?

POWELL: I just have to go get my boys.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: It was at the vigil, Susan and Josh`s hometown of (INAUDIBLE) that Josh arrived with one of their sons. Friends surprised he`d leave Utah during the investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would like to hear a credible story about -- I`d like to know the facts, what happened. What does he know, what does he not know. And if it clears him, that`s great because now we can get on to the main focus, which is where`s my daughter at?

POWELL: I didn`t do anything. I mean, I -- I don`t know where she`s at. I don`t even know where to start looking.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: As we go to air, tonight searchers scouring mine shafts within a radius, a small radius around the family`s home. Why? Because one of the little boys, the 4-year-old, says mommy is in the mine looking for crystals.

This explosive revelation has set searchers back into motion for Susan Cox-Powell, a gorgeous 28-year-old stockbroker, the mother of two.

Out to Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, author of "Dealbreakers."

Dr. Bethany, what does it mean that a child would say this? So far nothing that the twins -- my twins have said, who are almost 3, nothing that they say comes out of left field. There`s always a shred of a story, something they`ve seen, something they heard behind everything they say.

BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST, AUTHOR OF "DEALBREAKERS": It tells me that this little boy`s dad Josh is trying to explain where mommy went after she died. It`s like the wife killer`s version of explaining death and heaven.

It seems like the dad was trying to explain his version of mommy`s somewhere else, she`s in heaven, she`s on a cloud. She`s overlooking you. When you see the stars twinkle, think about mommy.

Only because this dad had had homicidal ideation for so long, and we see it in his comments about the mine shaft, his love of crime shows, his love of camping, that he had thought about this for so long that it slipped out in the explanation to the child.

And I`m actually surprised given that they were in marital therapy that the therapist did not pick up on this homicidal ideation and issue a terror soft warning to the victim. Because as therapists we are required to do that. If a patient has homicidal ideation and there`s a reasonable threat, we must contact the police and the victim and issue a warning.

GRACE: To Susan`s father joining us tonight, Chuck Cox. Were they having marital problems? What do we know now?

CHUCK COX, FATHER OF MISSING MOM SUSAN POWELL: What we know now is confirmed basically that yes, they were having marital problems, but to everyone that I talked to, the last few months or so, or last month or so, it appeared that things were going to get better.

GRACE: Why?

COX: Well, because apparently at -- Susan had been trying very hard. And what we had heard that all of a sudden Josh had made some motions towards reconciliation or towards, OK, I want to be the husband you want me to be.

He started coming back to church. He started interacting more with Susan, but a little bit but it wasn`t -- right now in the wake of everything, we`re not sure that was just -- it wasn`t just a show.

GRACE: What were their problems, Mr. Cox? What were they fighting over?

COX: Well, I know they had financial difficulties for a while. That was an issue. My daughter could work any job and take care of herself financially. She was basically providing the financial support for the family.

And Josh just wanted to do what he wanted to do, and then towards even raising the kids, you know, when do they go to bed? When -- how late can they stay up and taking care of them, because all I ever observed, my daughter was the only one that provided care for the children. And with absolutely no help from her husband.

So if he had made any motion toward, you know, helping, she would have welcomed that with open arms and considered that he was going to make a change in the way the relationship was.

GRACE: Mr. Cox, when you say Josh, you`re referring to Josh Powell.

COX: Yes.

GRACE: He has not been charged in this case as of now. When you said Josh did -- he would do what he wanted to do, what did he want to do all the time?

COX: Just working on his computer most of the time, or whatever his latest idea was. I mean, he would --

GRACE: What do you mean by that, his latest idea?

COX: Well, he would get involved in things. He would be interested in building a computer or maybe if he was going to -- when they were going to purchase a car, he would do a lot of research and work on that.

One time he wanted to be an accountant and he was on that. And he likes taking pictures, and all of a sudden he was into that. So whatever his current thing he was interested in, that`s what he would focus on.

GRACE: Mr. Cox, can I ask you something? Was he making any money at any of this?

COX: Well, the only thing I know of that was a possibility he was doing fairly well, I thought, coming along as a real estate agent for a while. And then recently he did get the job through a temporary agency working -- maintaining a Web site, and then evidently he got hired on by a trucking firm there in Utah full time, maintaining their Web site. So -- and then I understand he was actually -- had a potential of a stable job, an income.

GRACE: Yes, because all this being on the computer all day and night, unless you`re bringing home a paycheck, forget about it.

We are taking your calls. Out to Sharon in Pennsylvania, hi, Sharon.

SHARON, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Oh, my gosh, hi.

GRACE: Hi, dear, what`s your question?

SHARON: My question is, it just seems weird that any woman in her right mind would she let her husband take her kids out on a camping trip like that? Is it possible that he said that they were going on a family camping trip? And then did something to her?

GRACE: Sharon, Sharon, Sharon.

SHARON: Yes? Yes?

GRACE: He didn`t go on a camping trip. All right?

SHARON: OK.

GRACE: That`s what he told cops. Believe me, Sharon in Pennsylvania. He did not jump up at midnight in freezing temperatures and take these children on a camping trip. That didn`t happen.

SHARON: All right.

GRACE: You`re right. No woman in her right mind -- take my twins out at midnight? On a camping trip in freezing weather? Yes, over my dead, cold body. That`s not going to happen. And I`m telling you that did not happen.

You`re right, Sharon, it doesn`t make sense because that`s not what happened. We are trying to apply logic to an illogical story. You don`t take boys out ages now 3 and 5 camping at midnight to an undisclosed location.

As a matter of fact, I`ve got Susan`s father with me.

Mr. Cox, has he ever divulged exactly where he went camping?

COX: No, he hasn`t. Not at all.

GRACE: Well, see, right there, that doesn`t make any sense. And isn`t it true, Mr. Cox, that you have been back to the area and Boy Scouts have stated they tried to go camping in that area that very weekend they could not go because of the weather?

COX: Yes, we have -- I happened to be out there at the site where allegedly he went, the Pony Express trail site -- campsite. And while we were there, it so happened some Boy Scouts came along from another trip, and they said, yes, we were out there that night and it was so cold that you couldn`t -- they had to -- their milk and things, they had to sleep with them in their sleeping bags, and in the morning before they could pour the milk, it was frozen again inside.

It was the worst night they`d ever seen. And they just gave up and came home early. And so -- and they had not seen anybody out there, and they were out there supposedly the night before he -- on Saturday night. And --

GRACE: Tonight, where is Susan Powell? Her 4-year-old little boy announces mommy is in the mine looking for crystals. This touches off a new search for the 28-year-old stockbroker mother of two.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Utah authorities continue to investigate the disappearance of 28-year-old, mom of two, Susan Powell who alleged vanished from her own home. Susan`s husband Joshua Powell said he decided to take the couple`s two young sons on a late-night camping trip. Something he says they do frequently.

Powell`s sister not hearing from the family for almost two days calls to report the whole family missing.

(END OF VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Chris Mueller was supposed to pick up his 3 and a half-month-old baby boy Jackson from daycare and take him to a doctor`s appointment. But the two never make it to the doctor. Now they are both missing.

Jackson`s wife says she noticed her husband took a large quantity of milk and diapers from their home, more than would have been needed for the day.

Was this vanishing planned or are Jackson and Chris Mueller the victims of foul play?

Police believe the two may be traveling to Kentucky in a 2003 black Volkswagen Beetle with Illinois plates L324339.

How do a father and son disappear? A mother is hoping tonight to be reunited with her infant son.

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GRACE: We are taking your calls. Straight out to Kathy Chaney with the "Chicago Defender."

Kathy, what can you tell us?

KATHY CHANEY, REPORTER, CHICAGO DEFENDER: Well, the mom lost all contact with the father. She was trying to get in touch with him. All the calls continue to go to the voice mail.

The police are looking at the cell phone records and they`re looking into bank accounts and credit card use to see if anything has been used. But so far they haven`t divulged anything and the mom is just worried and hoping to get her family back.

GRACE: I guess she is. We`re talking about a 3-month-old baby.

To Dr. Marty Makary, apparently, a lot of diapers and breast milk were taken from the home. Look, you can only carry so much breast milk. All right? You can only amass so much breast milk. And then what`s the father going to do?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: He probably has no idea what he needs to do. He probably has no idea what the needs of the child are in terms of nutrition and preventing dehydration.

A mother is keenly aware of their breast milk especially when it`s pumped. And the fact that she could note this so, you know, precisely means that she can tell something is wrong.

GRACE: And another thing, Dr. Marty Makary, and I don`t really know if the specifics are going to sink in with you. But you can`t breast-feed a child, bread-feast a child, breast-feed a child, and then suddenly poke a bottle in its mouth. It doesn`t work like that.

MAKARY: Yes, the child becomes accustomed to the breast milk. It`s got antibodies and things that processed milk doesn`t have. It`s clearly better and a child is smart enough to be able to tell the difference.

GRACE: Well -- or vice versa. You can`t feed on the bottle, feed on the bottle, feed on the bottle for three months, and then suddenly switch to breast-feeding. It`s like asking somebody to suddenly start eating with a shovel. You know, when you`re used to a fork and a spoon. It`s a completely different thing for a 3-month-old baby.

Everybody, we are talking about 3-month-old Jackson Mueller. His father goes, takes him out of daycare, says they`re going to a doctor`s appointment, they never show up. Mommy gets home to find out a large amount of breast milk and diapers are gone.

He`s not picking up his cell phone, nobody can find his VW. Where is he and what has happened to the baby?

Marlaina Schiavo, what else do we know?

MARLAINA SCHIAVO, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Well, we know that he picked up his son at about 1:00 p.m., and then he was supposed to go to a doctor`s appointment, we know he never showed up.

But the wife -- we know that she called him, got no answer, called the doctors, found out they didn`t show up and then she called police. And it was at that point they started frantically searching. They have no -- right now they are searching his bank records and they`re trying to triangulate his phone. But apparently his phone is turned off.

The only clue they have --

GRACE: Oh man.

SCHIAVO: -- is that he might be heading to Louisville.

GRACE: Louisville for what?

SCHIAVO: Well, they said he has relatives in that area.

GRACE: Wait, wait, wait. Did you say Louisville? Did you say that?

SCHIAVO: Louisville.

GRACE: Are you talking about Louisville, Kentucky?

SCHIAVO: Yes.

GRACE: Louisville.

SCHIAVO: Louisville.

GRACE: Why would he go to Louisville?

SCHIAVO: He has relatives in that area. According to police.

GRACE: OK, you know what, to you, Eleanor Odom. You know, when somebody jumps bond, gets out jail, where do you go? You go and sit outside the mother`s house, or the grandmother`s house, or the auntie`s house.

Just sit there in an unmarked car they`ll show up. If they don`t show up, go in and look under the bed, there they are.

Great point, Marlaina, he has relatives there in Louisville.

Joining me right now, a special guest, Sergeant John Nebl, from Schaumburg Police Department.

Sergeant, thank you for being with us. What can you tell us, Sergeant? Did you just think that maybe he drove off a bridge? Maybe there was some kind of crash or an accident until the mom notices the breast milk and the diapers are gone?

SGT. JOHN NEBL, PIO, SCHAUMBURG POLICE DEPT.: When she came to us initially, she notified that the breast milk and the diapers were gone so initially it does appear that he left of his own will. We don`t have any reason to believe or information to believe that he`s in any danger or that Jackson is in any danger.

And for the fact that he`s from Louisville, Kentucky, and he has family there, we`re certainly hoping that he might be en route to that area.

GRACE: But why? Did he give any -- did the wife give any suggestion? Have they been arguing about how to take care of the baby? What led up to this?

NEBL: You know, that`s the truly frustrating thing, not only for us, but for Chris` wife, is that there was actually no indication that this was coming. There`s been no specific marital discourse. There`s been no history of police activity at the home.

He left no notes, he made no threats. Again, that`s the frustrating thing not only for his wife and, you know, mom or Jackson, but for us. We`re really not sure why he left.

GRACE: OK. Sergeant, question. OK, I know this is an odd question, but how much breast milk was taken and how many diapers?

NEBL: I don`t have an exact quantity. What I was told it was more than what`s necessary for the afternoon trip --

GRACE: OK.

NEBL: -- and probably some of day`s worth --

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GRACE: That`s all I needed to know, Sergeant.

NEBL: Yes.

GRACE: That`s all I needed to know, Sergeant. You hit the nail on the head. Because I was thinking well maybe he only took it with him because he didn`t know how much to take to the doctors. He thought he might be gone all afternoon and he didn`t know exactly how much to take. So he took too much.

But you`re giving me the answer. It is not a good answer.

To Tom Shamshak, former police chief, now private investigator, instructor at BU, Boston University.

Tom, what do we do now?

TOM SHAMSHAK, FMR. POLICE CHIEF, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR, INSTRUCTOR AT BOSTON UNIV.: Nancy, I think they`re at the point where an Amber alert should be triggered. If it`s -- if they`ve gone intrastate, the one key element that would help discover the whereabouts is to get this information out there in the form of an Amber alert.

Also what did this fellow do for work? Why -- were there problems at his place of employment? What triggered this? Is he in the throes of a crisis?

GRACE: Good point.

SHAMSHAK: Good questions we need to have answers.

GRACE: Dr. Bethany Marshall, very quickly, why do people nut up when they have a baby? Typically you hear about moms, but here we`ve got the dad taking off with a 3-month-old baby. Why?

MARSHALL: Well, certainly in this case I would wonder, is he jealous towards the child? Does he want to control the child as a way to control the mom? Is he in the middle of a bipolar episode where --

GRACE: There you go. Nobody has said bipolar. Where -- did you just grab that out of the air?

MARSHALL: You used the word nut up, and he`s very decompensated, meaning he`s not thinking rationally, and -- but the only silver lining in this story is that he did take the breast milk which means he does not mean to immediately kill the child.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: He`s only 3 1/2 months old. His mother is frantically begging for your help. Little Jackson Miller is missing, picked up from daycare by father Chris Miller. Supposed to be brought to the doctor. Father and son never show up.

Police on the lookout. The wife says her husband took a large quantity of milk and diapers from their home. Was this vanishing act planned? How do a father and son disappear?

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GRACE: Straight out to the lines. Robbi in Louisiana. Hi, Robbi.

ROBBI, CALLER FROM LOUISIANA: Hey, Nancy.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

ROBBI: I can`t believe I got through twice in two weeks.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: Thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?

ROBBI: Actually I have a comment and a question.

GRACE: OK.

ROBBI: I hope you remember me but I`m the lady who went back to school and got her degree in forensic science, after being retired --

GRACE: Oh, I thought it was criminal justice. You`re right. Forensic science. What do you think?

ROBBI: Well, my daughter says I`m stupid for asking this question. But here`s my question. Somebody already answered. But what was the doctor`s appointment for? I mean, was the baby sick?

GRACE: Good question. Out to our reporter on the story. What do we know, Kathy? What was the doctor`s appointment for?

CHANEY: Well, they wouldn`t divulge what the appointment was for, but given the age it could have been a routine appointment for immunization or something like that. But they didn`t divulge --

GRACE: Yes, in three months. Yes, there`s a three-month routine exam and immunization.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Army Private 1st Class Eric Woods, 26, Omaha, killed Iraq. Awarded Bronze Star, Purple Heart, Combat Medic badge. Lost his life hours after talking to his mom.

His service in Iraq featured in the Military Channel documentary, an army medic dreamed of being a physician`s assistant, loved helping others, handing out toys, candy, soccer balls to Iraqi children.

Leaves behind parents Chuck and Jan, brothers Matt and Brian, sister Amy, widow Jamie, son Eric.

Eric Woods, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but especially you for being with us, and a very special good night from Virginia friends, Julie and Jeff. Julie worked for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children 18 years.

One year ago today a friend of the show, federal prosecutor newlywed, Eleanor Odom, survives triple bypass surgery. It was just a few days after her marriage. And look at her now.

Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END