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NANCY GRACE

Photos From Mother`s Camera Show Missing 8-Month-Old

Aired January 19, 2010 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight, Arizona. A gorgeous 23- year-old mom takes off from her Tempe, Arizona, home by car for a thousand- mile road trip with a beautiful 8-month-old baby, Gabriel. Mommy spends Christmas holed up in a local San Antonio motel, calling the 25-year-old bio dad, threatening he`d never see the baby again, even saying she killed baby Gabriel. Turns out Mommy`s trying to give the baby away the whole time to an Arizona couple.

Mommy alone, no baby, hops a bus, heads to Florida, December 27, 24 hours after the last credible sighting of baby Gabriel alive, her car abandoned. December 30, cops find Mommy in Miami Beach, no baby. Car recovered San Antonio, baby`s carseat still inside. When pressed, Mommy says she gives the baby away to a couple she bumps into at a Texas state park.

Bombshell tonight. Just released photos emerge of baby Gabriel just hours before he disappears, the pix from Mommy`s own camera heartbreaking, baby Gabriel there in that motel room, looking thin, sick, tired, his eyes droopy, gripping a medicine bottle, these photos confirming the story of the baby-sitter who sits for baby Gabriel at that motel, who says the baby thin, dirty, frightened, alternately screaming then lethargic because Mommy dopes the baby up, the room filthy, littered with makeup, clothes for Mommy, hardly anything for baby Gabriel. Mommy heads out dressed for clubbing in a midriff top, low-rise tight jeans and stilettos.

After Mommy`s cell phone photos emerge, Daddy, now terrified for the baby boy. Behind bars, Mommy digs in, even admitting she won`t help find the baby because she`s facing jail time anyway. What about that? Police now confirm there`s two parallel investigations, missing child and homicide. Police hone in on the home of the would-be adoptive parents, persons of interest, searching, then seizing computers. Tonight where is baby Gabriel?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police say they have their hands on new pictures taken days before baby Gabriel vanished. They`re on mom`s own cell phone.

LOGAN MCQUEARY, GABRIEL`S FATHER: I`ve never seen him like that. When I saw that picture, I started crying. I`ve never seen him like that at all, even when he`s tired. He never looked like that before.

LT. MIKE HORN, TEMPE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have to carry on with the course that he may be alive, but we also, unfortunately, have to procedure with the investigation that she may have killed him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disturbing new details on missing Arizona baby, little Gabriel Johnson. And this straight from the mouth of his baby- sitter, the sitter who was with him just days before he vanished.

ANALISA URIAS, ALLEGEDLY BABY-SAT GABRIEL IN SAN ANTONIO: She told me that she had already drugged him up with medication, but that if he started to cry again, just to give him more medicine to shut him up. He didn`t seem to be sick at all, he just didn`t look clean or happy.

MCQUEARY: She basically told me that if we`re not going to be together and have a family, then neither of us are going to have him. I said, Well, where`s Gabriel? And she said, You know where he`s at, I already told you. And I asked, Where is he? And she said that, I stuffed him in a diaper bag and he suffocated, and I put him in a diaper bag and put him in a dumpster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Bombshell tonight. Just released, photos emerge of baby Gabriel just hours before he disappears.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are the last known photos of Gabriel from the San Antonio hotel room where the boy may have been drugged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tempe, Arizona, police found the pictures on a camera belonging to his mother, Elizabeth Johnson, datestamped December 26th, the last day he was seen alive. In one photo, Gabriel`s holding what looks like a medicine bottle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Johnson told Analisa that Gabriel had already been given medicine, and if he began crying, to just give him some more.

GRACE: She said, If the baby starts crying, just give more Tylenol?

URIAS: Yes, she said to give him more medicine to shut him up.

MCQUEARY: (INAUDIBLE) shut him up. I didn`t want to believe that she would do it that way. Whenever we were at our house or something, she didn`t want to listen to him cry. She always told me to shut him up and put him in his crib or put him in the other room.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There was a sharp knife in the room.

URIAS: One thing that I noticed that kind of scared me a little bit was that she had a -- like a -- kind of like a butcher knife next to her bed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And the sitter says the mother seemed detached from her son.

URIAS: She wasn`t, you know, affectionate with Gabriel or anything. It didn`t seem like she, you know, really wanted him. The room didn`t look suitable for a baby. She didn`t have toys or, you know, books for him to read, anything like that.

HORN: And it`s a very real possibility that Elizabeth killed Gabriel.

MCQUEARY: She never wanted to hear him cry. It just aggravated her, made her mad.

URIAS: When I asked her if she would need me again, she said that she wasn`t sure because she didn`t know what she was going to do next with her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Straight out to Michael Board, WOAI Newsradio, joining us from San Antonio. Michael, what can you tell us about these just released photos? Some are just hours before baby Gabriel disappears. Some are taken on the 26th, the last day of a credible sighting of this baby.

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, Nancy, you have to wonder why is she taking these photos? Is she taking them because she wants to remember her child? Not likely. Remember, this is a woman who did not want this child. On several occasions she told Logan, Take that kid with you, I don`t want that kid around you. Why is she taking pictures now?

Nancy, you also have to think, is she taking these pictures because she wants to sell this child and she is sending these to a prospective buyer? These are the questions you really have to wonder. Police, I have been told, are using these pictures to trace her route around San Antonio. Where is she going? Where is she staying? What is she doing? Hopefully, it`ll give us some sort of leads to figure out what baby Gabriel`s last days might have been.

GRACE: You know, you brought up a very interesting point, Michael Board -- Michael joining us from San Antonio, WOAI Newsradio.

Matt Zarrell, our producer on the story, she would not just take the photo and keep it to herself, OK? So what I need to know, have police -- I mean, they had not even told us, or I believe, searched the landfills or the dumps until we talked about it on the show last week. Now we know they`re starting to search the dumps and the landfills, thank the lord in heaven. But on these cell phone -- excuse me, was it a cell phone or a camera, Matt Zarrell?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: It was a camera, Nancy.

GRACE: OK. What do you mean, like a digital camera, an instant camera? What was it?

ZARRELL: We don`t know exactly what camera it is at this point, but we know that investigators are hoping to gain more information from these photos and develop a timeline.

GRACE: OK. What I want to find out is if it was -- if they were taken on one of those digicams, a digital camera, did she send them to anyone? Did she send them, for instance, to Jack and Tammi Smith, the would-be adoptive parents, who have now been named persons of interest in baby Gabriel`s disappearance? We also know, Matt Zarrell, that police hone in on the Smiths` home. They search the whole thing, and they seize their computers, their hard drives. But then a few days pass, and the police announce they`re afraid baby Gabriel is dead. So obviously, they didn`t find anything on those hard drives, Matt Zarrell, that suggest that the Smiths know where the baby`s being hidden.

ZARRELL: Well, what`s interesting, though, Nancy, is one thing that we do know is Elizabeth Johnson late last week was indicted, and one of the additional charges that was handed down was conspiracy to commit custodial interference. So the question now is, who are her co-conspirators? Is it the Smiths? Police aren`t saying at this point.

GRACE: Well, typically, that is named in the indictment. However, in this case, I don`t believe that we know who the co-conspirator would be.

Let`s go out to Andrew J. Scott, former chief of police in Boca Raton, VP of Scott Robertson Associates. Sir, thank you for being with us. I want to talk to you about the police investigation. We`ve learned a lot about where the trash, the dump, the dumpster of this San Antonio Motel 6 - - where it would go. In my mind, that should have been the first thing they started doing, is looking for this baby`s body while they look for him alive.

ANDREW J. SCOTT, FORMER CHIEF OF POLICE IN BOCA RATON: Well, initially, they did not have reason to believe that the baby was in some type of mortal danger at the time. That`s my...

GRACE: Put Scott back up. Put Scott up. Mr. Scott...

SCOTT: Yes, ma`am?

GRACE: You have an excellent reputation, but in my mind, telling the biological father that you smothered the baby, concealed his body in a diaper bag and threw him away in the trash is reason to suspect the child is dead. Agree or disagree?

SCOTT: Agreed. You`re absolutely right. Absolutely.

GRACE: Continue.

SCOTT: Yes. OK. Having said that and having been aware of that, you know, the first thing that they probably should have done is to confirm exactly where that dump would be. Secondly, they would obviously have to go and create some type of a search pattern and cordon off that particular area. Doing a search in a dump is an extremely difficult task. It`s extremely difficult. It`s a dirty task. Obviously, it needs to be done, and obviously, they`re starting to do that now. Should they have done it sooner, based on what you`re telling me? Absolutely.

GRACE: But here is the good news about that, Andrew Scott. If you think back on the Lori Hacking case -- she was a young woman who went missing. Her husband was immediately a suspect. It was about six months later that that -- those remains were found, enough to identify in a landfill. So frankly, I mean, if you look at it practically speaking, the police really haven`t lost anything, have they? We confirmed tonight that the trash in that dumpster has not been incinerated.

SCOTT: Well, I disagree with you. They have lost something. And obviously, time is of the essence now, and so if now they`ve decided to search the dump, as opposed to doing it when they first speculated that perhaps the baby had been dumped there, then you have, you know, cubic yards and tons of trash that they`d have to pick through...

GRACE: Exactly.

SCOTT: ... not to mention that if there`s -- if there`s -- if indeed, there is a death, the decomposition does deteriorate any type of viable evidence that might be helpful in determining what the...

GRACE: Andrew Scott?

SCOTT: ... cause of death was.

GRACE: Your point well taken. You`re absolutely correct.

Back to you, Michael Board, WOAI. What can you tell me about these photos? We know the mom took them. What more do we know about them? They`re just released.

BOARD: We were told that these were the only pictures that were on her camera. There was no other pictures. She`s not going around sightseeing, taking pictures. All that was on her camera, which was found on her when she was in Miami, were these six pictures.

Now, what they`re doing is they`re going through the camera and trying to figure out if they can recover any other images that are on her camera. This is part of computer forensics. What they can do is look at the card, the memory card that`s in her camera, and try to find out if there`s images that might have been deleted that might give us more information about the baby`s whereabouts.

But what`s really disturbing about this, Nancy, if you look at the one picture, there`s one picture of the child sipping out of some sort of a medicine dropper. Is this woman drugging her child?

GRACE: Everyone, we are taking your calls live tonight. But as we go to break, we all know that thousands are suffering in Haiti. Don`t let this be your missed opportunity to do something good. Please help. Dial 1-800-554-8583 or just go on line to Umcor.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s the last one with the baby. She had motive to get rid of the baby. She`s the one that`s fleeing. She`s the one that won`t cooperate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s prepared to stick to her story and stay in jail as long as is necessary.

MCQUEARY: I want to believe that she did give him away so that maybe he`s safe and he`s with, you know, somebody that`s taking care of him right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s currently facing charges of kidnapping, which is a class 2 felony, child abuse, which is a class 4 felony, and custodial interference.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is there anything you want to ask me or tell me?

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, GABRIEL`S MOTHER: Ask you -- I don`t really know what to say, but everything is so false.

MCQUEARY: I do believe she give him away and not really care about it because she didn`t really seem like -- you know, she was never really around. I kind of see how it was kind of easy for her.

GRACE: What condition, Analisa, was the baby in?

URIAS: He looked very thin. He definitely wasn`t happy. He seemed to be scared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defendant is the only person who knows where Gabriel is, if he`s dead or alive, and she refuses to cooperate and tell anyone where Gabriel is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a pretty destructive woman, and as it`s been said so many times, she`s very manipulative.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She`s has definitely shown some unpredictable behavior in the past. So when she says that she killed that baby and threw him in a dumpster, is that a credible threat? Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your calls live tonight. Just released, bombshell photos of baby Gabriel. They are taken within the hours just before he vanishes. They`re apparently taken off Mommy`s camera.

To Michael Board, WOAI. Do we know what kind of camera it is? Is it a digicam, a cell phone?

BOARD: A regular digital camera. They wouldn`t tell me the make or brand, but they said they found it on her when they found her in Miami at that youth hostile. One of the things she had with her is a digital camera. They didn`t give me a make or a model or anything like. We just know it`s a stand-alone camera.

GRACE: So a digital camera. That is not different at all to e-mail photos from a digital camera. Any idea whether she sent those photos out, Michael Board? How did we get the photos, from the police?

BOARD: Well, yes, we got them from police, from the camera. What they`re trying to figure out is, we know at one point, when she was at the Homegate Suites hotel here in San Antonio, from the desk clerk, said that at one point she did use the computer there in the lobby of that hotel. If that`s the case, there`s a very easy way for her to send those photos out.

GRACE: I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew she got on line from that hotel! Unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, veteran defense attorney out of Atlanta Raymond Giudice, veteran trial lawyer and author of "Death`s Witness" joining us out of Manhattan, Paul Batista. Welcome, gentlemen.

Raymond Giudice. you first. It`s come to my attention tonight that Mommy has actually admitted she`s going to refuse to help find baby Gabriel because she`s looking at hard time anyway on child abuse, custodial interference, so she`s not going to lift a finger to help find her baby. Thoughts?

RAYMOND GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, she may not be being properly counseled. I think her lawyer...

GRACE: You`re darn right. You can say that again, Giudice.

GIUDICE: OK. If that`s correct, somebody should be talking to her and saying, Listen, these are what the indictment says. This is what the maximum charge is or punishment. But you tell us how we find that baby alive and get it back to -- you know, to normalcy, and we can negotiate a plea bargain. That`s what I would be doing for her and that`s what I think her counsel should be doing, not telling her she`s looking at hard time.

GRACE: Paul Batista, what about it?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, of course, Nancy, she has a right to remain silent. That`s what the 5th Amendment is all about. But Ray is right. If her lawyer...

GRACE: Good lord in heaven, please let Paul Batista tell me something I don`t know! We all know she`s got the right to remain silent. I`m asking you about her admission that she`s not going to help police because she`s looking at hard time anyway, so why bother?

BATISTA: What`s the admission there, Nancy. She`s simply saying, I`m going to invoke my 5th Amendment privilege. That`s the message she`s communicating. Ray is absolutely right. If her lawyer can work out a deal with the DA to find the little -- to find baby, then there may be some basis to go forward. But who is saying the DA is prepared to work with this woman or her lawyer?

GRACE: Put Paul Batista back up. That`s not what Giudice said. You have extrapolated from his comment. It`s my belief, Ray -- and please correct me if I`m wrong -- that you`re saying she has been ill advised, that she should help police find the baby and maybe work a deal, not sit on her thumb and not speak because she might be looking at hard time anyway.

BATISTA: Well, keep in mind, not to be too critical of her counsel because we`re not there...

GRACE: Please be brief.

BATISTA: ... but she is -- she is a crazy girl, so her lawyer may be giving her good advice, but she may be hearing the demons in her head. So I do think...

GRACE: OK.

BATISTA: ... we have to keep that possibility open.

GRACE: I will be back with Paul Batista and Raymond Giudice. And joining us when we get back, Marc Klaas.

Everyone, tonight thousands are suffering in Haiti. Don`t let this be your missed opportunity to do something good. Please call 1-800-554-8583 or go to the United Methodist Community On Relief.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

URIAS: She said, Well, this is Gabriel. He`s 8 months old. She told me that he should be due for a feeding in about an hour. She told me where his Enfamil was, his bottle, and then she left.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So many people have come forward and have spoken out to the media that investigators haven`t even had a chance to talk to everyone yet and to verify their stories.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to look into all leads and all information that we have available, one of the pieces of information being out of Elizabeth`s mouth to Logan that she killed Gabriel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Police now state they are working a parallel investigation, a missing child and a homicide.

We are taking your calls live. Joining us now, Marc Klaas. Marc Klaas, we also learned just recently in the last few hours that she didn`t just text the daddy that the baby`s dead, she called him on the phone and elaborated, saying, I suffocated him, I smothered him to death, put him in the diaper bag and threw him away. She elaborated. She didn`t just say baby Gabriel`s dead, she said how she killed him. What do you think, Marc?

MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Well, obviously, she`s playing everybody, but most especially Logan, like an absolute yo-yo. What she`s doing is cruel, vicious and absolutely inhumane. The best advice that she`s been given thus far was today by her grandfather, who said very clear -- or yesterday by her grandfather, who said very clearly, the sooner you - - the sooner they find that baby, the sooner you get out of here.

Now, if that baby were alive and she understood what he was saying, she would then do -- should do whatever is necessary to bring this to closure. But the fact that she continues to remain silent, that she continues to stonewall, that this has taken so many ominous turns, including those heart-breaking pictures, leads ones to believe that it`s probably closer to a homicide investigation at this point than it is to a missing person investigation.

GRACE: I`ve got to tell you, these new photos that we have just obtained just make me alternately sick to my stomach and want to cry.

KLAAS: They`re awful.

GRACE: ... because -- let`s go to special guest joining us, Analisa Urias, who sat baby Gabriel there at that San Antonio motel. Analisa, what do you make of the photos? The mother told you to give him baby Tylenol if he cried to shut him up, right?

URIAS: Yes, that`s right.

GRACE: How much food did you see out for baby Gabriel? How much food did she have for him?

URIAS: Not much. There was a can of Enfamil and a few jars of baby food.

GRACE: I`m sorry. I can`t hear you. Repeat?

URIAS: There was one can of Enfamil and only a few jars of baby food for him.

GRACE: This is while Mommy`s out getting her nails done and getting food for herself. Everyone, we`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Police have released some disturbing pictures of the little 8-month-old boy Gabriel Johnson missing now since late December.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you believe the child is alive? A lot of that has to do with we`ve got -- again, we`ve got some photographs, time- stamped photographs.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They were date-stamped September 26th. That`s the last day he was seen alive.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: And the babysitter, her name is Analisa Urias cared for baby Gabriel, we believe, in Texas. So could be one of the last people to see him before he vanishes.

NANCY GRACE, HOST: What condition, Analisa, was the baby in?

ANALISA URIAS, ALLEGEDLY BABYSAT BABY GABRIEL IN SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS: He looked thin, definitely wasn`t happy. She just told me the baby`s name and that he would be hungry in about an hour. And then after than she left.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Johnson was dressed provocatively and left for two hours on what she said was an interview. Analisa said Johnson received an odd phone call once she returned.

URIAS: You know, I could hear the lady screaming at her over the phone. And then when she hung up, she told me I`m sorry about that, it was my grandma.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If her decision was to kill that baby in Arizona, if she had some trigger that went off in her mind while she`s in San Antonio, a phone conversation, a discovery of some fact, that could have I guess triggered that instability in her or that could have been the day that that happened.

LOGAN MCQUEARY, FATHER OF MISSING BABY GABRIEL: Didn`t look like him, didn`t like he was happy in those pictures.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Logan says he doesn`t know if Elizabeth could hurt her own child.

MCQUEARY: If she goes into one of her rages, she won`t calm down unless she`s ready to calm down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I hope they find that baby.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to the lines, Nancy in Arkansas. Hi, Nancy.

NANCY, CALLER FROM ARKANSAS: Hi, how are you? I watch your show every night.

GRACE: Well, thank you very much and thank you for calling in, dear. What`s your question?

NANCY: I haven`t ahead anything about Elizabeth Johnson`s parents? Where are they at?

GRACE: Her parents are both deceased, to my understanding. What about it, Matt Zarrell?

MATT ZARRELL, NANCY GRACE STAFFER, COVERING STORY: Yes, both parents struggled with alcohol abuse and they both passed away, the father in 2007, the mother before that.

GRACE: And she -- you know, not that they were that much good to her -- not to speak ill of the dead, but she was tossed from one foster home to the next to the next to the next, and that certainly is not a good childhood provided by loving parents. I can tell you that much right now, Matt Zarrell. Is that true or not?

ZARRELL: Yes, it is. But what`s interesting is the grandfather says that she was a straight A student and very smart and knew what she was doing.

GRACE: Yes. She had a scholarship to college and then dropped out after a very short time. Didn`t want to complete it. So, Nancy in Arkansas, her parents are dead. She`s got her grandfather. And you heard Analisa Urias, the babysitter who was the last person that we`ve been able to track down that saw the baby alive.

Analisa, when -- who was it that called her on the phone and they were -- it was very contentious, they were arguing on the phone? Who was that?

URIAS: She told me it was her grandmother. I mean I don`t know if that`s who it really was but that`s what she told me.

GRACE: OK. Grandmother. All right, Analisa, what, to the best of your recollection, was she saying back to the grandmother?

URIAS: I remember her saying, what am I supposed to do? Just go back? And, you know, that`s all I pretty much heard her saying. The whole time it was the lady on the other end screaming at her.

GRACE: So the only thing you recall her saying is, what am I supposed to do? Go back? That`s the only thing you recall her saying?

URIAS: That`s the only thing I recall her saying, yes.

GRACE: How long did the conversation last?

URIAS: Maybe a few minutes, maybe -- no more than five minutes.

GRACE: Could you hear what the woman was saying on the other end?

URIAS: I couldn`t hear. All I know is that she was screaming loudly.

GRACE: What did Elizabeth Johnson say to you after she hung up from that conversation?

URIAS: She told me, I`m sorry, that was my grandma. She`s scared because my baby`s dad is threatening her to tell her where we are and we`re in a custody battle.

GRACE: OK. I`m having a hard time hearing you. Tell me again what did she say to you after she hung up the phone?

URIAS: She told me that that was her grandma and that her grandmother was scared because the baby`s dad was threatening her because he wanted to know where her and the baby were, because they were in a custody battle.

GRACE: OK. Got it. Thank you, Analisa. Let`s go back to the lines. Hi, Janice, North Carolina, hi, Janice.

JANICE, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Nancy, how are you?

GRACE: I am good, dear, but I`ve got to tell you, after I see the photos confirming Analisa`s story that the baby is thin, lethargic, clutching a medicine bottle -- you know, I`ve taken I don`t know how many thousands of photos of the twins since their birth.

I don`t have any of them clutching and sucking on a medicine bottle. Any photos of the twins like that. What do you make of it, Janice?

JANICE: It`s sickening. It is very sickening. And what they ought to do her -- well, really my question was, why couldn`t the babysitter didn`t recognize all of this? Why didn`t she call social services?

GRACE: Let`s go to.

JANICE: Or the police?

GRACE: Good question. Analisa, when you left the motel room, did you consider calling police or -- what were your feelings? What were your thoughts about the baby?

URIAS: I thought it was kind of weird the way he was acting and the way she was treating him. I did consider calling CPS, but again, after that I lost her number so I wasn`t able to contact her or anybody else.

And also, I didn`t know how long she would be staying there because she told me she wasn`t -- she didn`t know what she was going to do next.

GRACE: And how old are you, dear?

URIAS: I`m 18 years old.

GRACE: You`re 18. I want to go to Lauren Howard, psychotherapist.

Lauren, what do you make of her giving two very different stories?

LAUREN HOWARD, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I think there`s a lot of run for cover here. I think that it`s entirely possible this baby died and was not killed. You know, it was not suffocated.

She was giving her Tylenol which has a very liver toxicity, Nancy. That -- you know what seems to be happening from her not wanting to discuss, like tell people, tell authorities where the baby is, because her lawyers advised her not to, you know, the advice would be if there`s a homicide here right now you`re being held for kidnapping.

If there`s no body, there`s no homicide. So she`s really in better shape by being charged with the crimes -- the felonies that she`s being charged with than murder. So, you know, the many stories here I feel like are run for cover.

I think something bad happened, not necessarily by design, by neglect to be sure, and now she`s found herself in a situation where there are more than two stories. There are many, many stories.

GRACE: Well put, Lauren Howard. Lauren joining us out of New York.

I want to go back to Analisa Urias, the babysitter who sat with baby Gabriel, tried to cheer him up, tried to make him feel better, he wouldn`t play with her. Anytime she tried to sit him down, he would scream hysterically. He was ultimately screaming and then lethargic.

Analisa, I want to go back to the Enfamil that you saw that`s baby formula. Was it a can of dried Enfamil?

URIAS: Yes, it was.

GRACE: OK. How much was left in the can?

URIAS: It was full. It looked maybe like she had used it maybe once or twice, but it was completely full.

GRACE: OK. How many bottles did you see?

URIAS: He only had one bottle.

GRACE: Did you see a sterilizer to sterilize the bottles?

URIAS: No, I didn`t.

GRACE: That would have probably been set up at a sink. OK. So no sterilizer. And as far as food goes, how many jars of baby food did you see?

URIAS: He had about three jars of baby food.

GRACE: Three jars. Did you see evidence that she had been to the grocery store, like plastic bags of baby food or anything like that?

URIAS: No, there was nothing, no evidence of any kind of shopping for food or anything.

GRACE: So she had been out getting manicures for herself, buying new clothes, had gone on a shopping spree, but kind of forgot to buy any food for this baby.

To Dr. Jennifer Shu, pediatrician and editor of "Baby and Child Health," she`s an expert in her field. What can repeated doses of Tylenol do to a baby?

DR. JENNIFER SHU, PEDIATRICIAN, EDITOR, "BABY AND CHILD HEALTH": So any medicine taken correctly can work really well, and Tylenol is a great pain reliever and fever reducer. But for a baby in that size, even in that small tiny bottle there are about 30 doses which are supposed to be spaced out by four to six hours.

So if mom was giving repeated doses, even a third of that could cause toxic problems, such as vomiting, diarrhea, baby could be lethargic, have seizures, go into a coma, liver failure, and even death after a certain point.

So definitely -- you know, medicine is not something to be taken lightly. And it needs to be kept out of the reach of children and given appropriately.

GRACE: Everyone, as we go to break, on a happy note, happy 53rd birthday to Georgia friend, Mikey Daventeet (ph).

And happy birthday to Tennessee friend, Levi, who hosts an online crime and justice podcast.

Happy birth today to West Virginia friend, Freda. She loves quilting, chaining new recipes, and most of her son, her grandchildren and her great- grand. This weekend the Grafton mayor presented a proclamation presented in honor of her 100th birthday.

And happy birthday to California friend, Josh Sebera (ph). He loves books, music, movies, and his beautiful family including a brand-new niece. Over 10 years ago, we shared the same hall of a tall apartment building and we met over his beloved Jack Russell Remington.

He went on to be a PR guru at E Line Cinema and Lifetime. He just came to visit the twins and took them to see the fishies at the aquarium.

Happy birthday, dearest Josh.

Everyone, tonight thousands suffer in Haiti. Don`t let this be a missed opportunity to do something good. Please call 1-800-554-8583. Or go to United Methodist Committee on relief.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Breaking news, an 18-year-old babysitter reportedly took care of 8-month-old Gabriel Johnson a few days before Christmas at a San Antonio hotel where he was staying with his mother.

Johnson allegedly told the babysitter she was going to an important appointment, but the sitter says she looked like she was going to a club.

URIAS: She was dressed like she was going to the club. She was wearing very tight, low-cut jeans, a tight blouse that was showing like half of her stomach.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Baby Gabriel`s mother is now telling police who are looking for the missing 8-month-old, she remembers details of the couple that she gave her son to.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All of a sudden she can just remember, after she says.

ELIZABETH JOHNSON, MOTHER OF MISSING BABY GABRIEL: Everybody is so false, so completely false.

GRACE: Now all of a sudden she remembers.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Elizabeth Johnson gave police descriptions of the man and woman she says showed up at the San Antonio hotel with a brand- new car seat and left with her baby.

TAMMI PETERS SMITH, PLANNED TO ADOPT BABY GABRIEL: The man was tall, not fat, but kind of big. He had short dark, really dark hair. She had long blond hair and was about her size and frame.

MCQUEARY: I just want her to be honest and say -- you know? I think about it every single day whether he`s dead or alive. I want to believe that he is alive. I just want her to tell the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: We are taking your phone calls live. To Laura in North Carolina, hi, Laura. Laura, are you with me?

Let`s go to Jessie, Kentucky. Hi, Jessie.

JESSIE, CALLER FROM KENTUCKY: Hi. I`d like to say you`re a beautiful person.

GRACE: I am so not a beautiful person, but I appreciate you saying that, and I`m going to burn a DVD of this, and when the twins turn 16 and they start arguing with me even more, I`m going to play that back to them, OK?

JESSIE: Oh, yes.

(LAUGHTER)

GRACE: I`m already preparing. OK. What`s your question, dear?

JESSIE: I`d like to know why they don`t put her in with the inmates. And maybe she would confide in one of them.

GRACE: You know what, Jessie? You ought to be running that jailhouse, Jessie in Kentucky.

What about it, lawyers? Raymond Giudice, Paul Batista? What about that? Why is she getting special treatment? Why isn`t she with GP, general population, Giudice?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, one, they may be concerned about her mental health. But.

GRACE: Oh, boo-hoo.

GIUDICE: The caller is wrong.

GRACE: Her mental health?

GIUDICE: That`s not.

GRACE: Her mental health?

GIUDICE: Hold on. What law enforcement might do is put someone in her cell, someone who`s probably on probation or parole, that will roll over on her and say, I heard her say in the middle of the night that she killed her baby and testify at trial. That`s the setup that law enforcement does.

GRACE: Raymond.

GIUDICE: Yes, Nancy.

GRACE: It`s not a set up. It would be mommy confessing to a roommate. That is not a setup.

GIUDICE: Well, that`s your version.

GRACE: Yes. OK. You used to be a prosecutor. You didn`t call it a setup back then.

GIUDICE: I didn`t do those sneaky tricks.

GRACE: What about it, Batista? Yes. Batista?

PAUL BATISTA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "DEATH`S WITNESS": Well, the caller should be working for the FBI. That certainly is a great way to get information. Obviously Elizabeth is a talker, and with someone else, she may well talk freely. It`s a great insight.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Laura in North Carolina, hi, Laura.

LAURA, CALLER FROM NORTH CAROLINA: Hi, Nancy, first of all, I just want to say my heart is broken by looking at these sad pictures of this baby, but my question for you tonight is, have they checked the dumpsters in the area where they tracked her GPS to?

GRACE: Excellent question. Matt Zarrell, we know she had GPS now. Amazingly the Smiths knew about that, and they tell us they kept telling the cops that. The cops are now looking at everywhere she went with that GPS.

And I really think, Matt Zarrell, that they should be looking in -- well, it`s too late for the dumpsters, that`s been empty into a landfill long ago. OK, because this child went missing December 27th. The last date that it was seen or spotted December 26th. She gets on a bus to Florida December 27th.

Have they, or do you know -- have they gone to those locations? There was the part where she says met the couple. There`s a cemetery right beside that park. We know she went to a Jack-in-the-Box fast food, we know where she was staying in the motel. And they can tell from the GPS everywhere she went.

ZARRELL: Yes, it`s an interesting point, Nancy, another place they can look is also the bus stop, maybe the garbage at the bus stop. They had pinpointed where in the landfill that garbage has gone, they just haven`t determined -- they haven`t started searching specifically yet.

GRACE: Back to Marc Klaas, president and founder of KlaasKids Foundation, what is your advice to police? They`re trying everything they know to do right now.

MARC KLAAS, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, KLAASKIDS FOUNDATION: Well, I`ve heard a couple of good suggestions.

GRACE: OK.

KLAAS: The whole idea of putting a snitch in her cell makes all the sense in the world for all the reasons that have been stated. So I certainly.

GRACE: I think Miss Thing needs to go to GP, general population.

KLAAS: Well, yes, but you know what, it`s not a prisoner`s job to extract prison justice on another prisoner.

GRACE: I didn`t say that.

KLAAS: No, but that might be a concern. That might be a reason they don`t want to do that. People that harm babies are not well thought of in the general population. There is even an honor among thieves. And that basically is where it`s at. So that may be why they`re not doing that.

GRACE: Marc Klaas, Marc Klaas, Marc Klaas, how many times have I heard commentators talk about jailhouse justice. I only know of two people that were killed behind bars. One was a serial killer, all right? Who ate his victims afterwards. He was killed in a Wisconsin jail.

And the second was a Catholic priest who happened to run into one of his molestation victims behind bars. Bye-bye. Those are the only two cases that I know of of jailhouse justice. So I wouldn`t even hold your breath to think that the other prisoners are going to extract a confession from her.

KLAAS: You know I`m not holding my breath, but I am just saying that that is a possibility. And I believe that prisoners kill other prisoners on a pretty regular basis in this country and it doesn`t make it onto the air waves. So, you know, I don`t know how that goes.

Nancy, I think that this phone call that she had supposedly with her grandmother might be key to something. All they have to do is trace that back and have a conversation with the person who was on the other end of the line to find out exactly what went down.

GRACE: Well, of course, they could always get that from the grandmother herself, but my question is finding everywhere she went. This is a parallel investigation tonight. These photos just emerging of little baby Gabriel looking thin, dirty and tired.

As we go to break, congratulations to Nick Abrams. He competed in the Southeast Special Olympics powerlifting competition this weekend. Teamed with his twin brother Zach, they competed with lots of other teams. Nick and brother Zach both students at North Gwyneth High.

Congratulations, Nick and Zach.

Everybody, tonight, thousands suffer in Haiti. Please, do something good. Call 1-800-554-8583 or go to umcor.com.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCQUEARY: I`ve never seen him like that at all. When I saw the picture, I started crying. I`ve never seen him like that at all. He looks tired. He never looked like that before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Out to Jenny, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jenny.

JENNY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. I just want to let you know my husband and I watch you religiously and we have a 5-month-old and we are appalled by this entire case.

But I have a quick question. Tammi Smith had said a few nights ago that Victoria, Texas was possibly on her GPS system. That she was heading down there two hours south. Whatever happened to that? Why isn`t anybody searching.

GRACE: Matt?

JENNY: . Victoria, Texas, that just disappeared?

GRACE: Matt. Matt Zarrell?

ZARRELL: Police are saying that Victoria, Texas is not involved in this case at all. It`s been a rumor that`s been spread around.

GRACE: Miranda in Texas, hi, Miranda.

MIRANDA, CALLER FROM TEXAS: Hi, Nancy. How are you?

GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?

MIRANDA: I wanted to ask what -- how did mom end up meeting the babysitter?

GRACE: Good question. I believe it was on Craigslist.

To Analisa Urias, how did you two connect, Analisa?

URIAS: She responded to my ad that I posted on Craigslist for babysitting.

GRACE: And it`s my understanding the day you saw this on TV, and heard about baby Gabriel missing, you called police immediately, is that correct, January 5?

URIAS: Yes, I did.

GRACE: What -- you`ve seen the photos that have just been released. What is that the baby is sucking on in the photo we were just showing?

URIAS: That is the bottle of Tylenol that she had for him.

GRACE: OK, let`s go back to that photo. These are photos of pacifier. What else can you tell us about his appearance and what do these photos say to you, Analisa?

URIAS: Well, he didn`t look that bad when I had baby sat him. But the photos, they say, you know, they`re very heartbreaking. I mean, because his clothes are just filthy and he looks like he`s out of it. He looks worn out. And they`re just heartbreaking to see.

GRACE: When you say he was filthy, what do you mean by that?

URIAS: In the photos, he looks very filthy. He didn`t look that bad when I baby sat him. But as I was looking at the photos, you know, he looked pretty bad. His clothes are dirty and, you know, he just looks filthy.

GRACE: Analisa, thank you for being with us.

Everyone, let`s stop and remember Marine Major Douglas Zembiec, 34, Albuquerque, New Mexico, killed Iraq. On a fourth tour, also served Kosovo. An all-American wrestler at the U.S. Naval Academy.

Highly decorated, awarded the Silver Star, Bronze Star, two Purple Hearts. Loved outdoors, riding, and living principles of integrity his father taught him. Leaves behind grieving parents Donald and Julienne, brother John, widow Pamela, daughter Fallon.

Douglas Zembiec, American hero.

Thanks to our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for being with us tonight. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END