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NANCY GRACE
Teen Murder Suspect Pleads Not Guilty
Aired December 29, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: A 9-year-old Missouri girl plays with a little friend, walks home, still daylight, only a thousand feet. She never makes it home, vanishing into thin air. The search for 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten comes to an end, her body found in a wooded area just houses from her own home. Cops finally close in on a murder suspect -- no, not one of the dozens of registered sex offenders in the area, not a vagrant, not an escapee, not a parolee. The suspect is a 15-year-old girl.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news. The 15-year-old (INAUDIBLE) suspect accused of brutally stabbing and strangling 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten has pled not guilty to all charges. Alyssa Bustamante was in court for a hearing in her upcoming murder trial.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ms. Bustamante will waive formal arraignment and enter pleas of not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Bustamante entered the courtroom in shackles, holding her head down. The small courtroom was filled with spectators, some wearing T-shirts in memory of murder victim Elizabeth Olten.
GRACE: We are learning there is evidence that she lured the little girl, a little 9-year-old girl, into the woods, that she had dug a shallow grave several days before in anticipation of murdering this little girl.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police allege Bustamante told them she dug two graves five days before the murder and allegedly told cops she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
JENNIFER MEYER, BUSTAMANTE`S BEST FRIEND: On her birthday, I was at her party. And she kind of just took me off to the side randomly and she said, you know, I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The child was strangled, stabbed, and then her killer slashed her throat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bustamante has been certified as an adult and could face life in prison if convicted on all counts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Ladd Egan, news director, anchor at KRCG, in court today. Ladd, thank you for being with us. Why was the 15-year-old murder suspect in court?
LADD EGAN, KRCG ANCHOR (via telephone): She was in court today, Nancy, for an arraignment. Now, on the day back in November when she was certified to stand trial as an adult, she did not have a public defender. Her public defender in the juvenile court couldn`t come with her to the adult court system. So today she was arraigned. She entered a plea of not guilty. However, she did not speak. Her attorney spoke on her behalf. They waived the formal arraignment and entered pleas of not guilty on both the charge of first degree murder and the charge of armed criminal action.
Now, she didn`t talk in court at all. She kept her head down and had her hair covering her face a lot of the time. Interesting, also in court today, there were family members of Elizabeth Olten. That`s the 9-year-old who was murdered. They wore pink to support Elizabeth. But on Alyssa Bustamante`s side, not even her grandmother, who is her legal guardian, showed up to support her today.
GRACE: I want to ask you another question about what happened in court today, Ladd Egan. It`s my understanding that the defense has asked the judge to take her to a psych unit, to put her in the mental ward, the sick bay, because of an alleged suicide attempt, and that suicide attempt would be she tried to scratch herself with her own fingernails? That`s the suicide attempt?
EGAN: Yes. That was -- soon after she was arrested back in October, the jail said that she was using her fingernails to scratch up her arms so bad that she was bleeding. At and that point, they did take her to a psychiatric hospital in St. Louis for a period of time.
GRACE: But how does that rise to a suicide attempt? I`m going to throw it to you, Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on the story. How can scratching yourself with your nails be a suicide attempt? It is obviously a way to get in sick bay, which is notoriously better treatment, better facilities, better food. You get your own cell. You get privacy. You`re treated with kid gloves. Because she scratched herself with her fingernails, this after she murdered a 9-year-old girl with three causes of death, strangulation, stabbing and slicing her throat, and they`re worried the girl is scratching herself with her fingernails, Rupa!
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, we did learn last month that -- in a certification history that she does have a history of mental illness. She did try to commit suicide in 2007. She was treated for depression. She`s been in therapy and she was on Prozac. So there is some evidence to suggest she does have a history of suicide.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Carolyn in Kentucky. Hi, Carolyn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Thank you for taking my call. I`ve tried to get through for quite a while.
GRACE: Thank you for calling in, Carolyn.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I appreciate the work that you do. I always follow these cases...
GRACE: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and sometimes I actually cry over them.
GRACE: Me, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This young girl here -- have they already completed her psychiatric evaluation or are they in the process of doing that? I`m not clear of that.
GRACE: What about it, Ladd Egan? What can you tell us?
EGAN: Well, in the juvenile court system, before they said that she was going to stand trial as an adult, there were a lot of psychiatric evaluations that went on. And it came out in the certification hearing that since she tried to commit suicide back in 2007, that she was undergoing intense, almost daily treatment for wanting to hurt herself.
And the court staid -- the juvenile authorities said that she never talked about hurting other people, that it was always about hurting herself. However, since then, one of her friends has come forward and said that earlier this year at a party, Alyssa Bustamante pulled her aside and told the friend, I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody. So from what friends are saying, she did talk about hurting others.
GRACE: We are taking your calls live. I want to go back to Rupa Mikkilineni. Rupa, is it true that the only motivation we have thus far for this 15-year-old girl to cold-bloodedly murder a 9-year-old little playmate of her little sister was to see what it felt like, to see what it felt like to kill somebody?
MIKKILINENI: That is what she told investigators when she was interviewed after they found Elizabeth Olten`s body, Nancy. She told an investigator that she wanted -- she admitted to digging two graves and told an investigator she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers -- Sue Moss, Renee Rockwell, Mickey Sherman. There you go, Renee. What are you going to do with that, if that`s your client?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, first of all, Nancy, that`s a statement that you want to keep out. Was she advised of her rights? Was she with a guardian...
GRACE: You don`t need to scream that any louder. Of course, they don`t want that in.
ROCKWELL: And -- but Nancy, here`s the problem. As well as an attorney could do to keep that out, you`re not going to keep out a statement that she gave to her little girlfriend at a party where she said the exact same thing.
GRACE: Go ahead, Mickey, give it your best try.
MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: She`s clearly psychotic, but no one`s going to care about that because the crime she committed was so despicable. It brings back memories of the Leopold and Loeb thrill killers of the `30s, where they killed their neighbor just to watch him die. Problem is, this girl is crazy. She`s on Prozac. She wasn`t on St. Joseph`s aspirin...
GRACE: Hold on.
SHERMAN: Yes?
GRACE: Hold on. Sue Moss, take a look at this video. Liz, can you pull up the video of her on YouTube? She`s not crazy. She may be depressed. She may be suicidal. But that, under the law, isn`t crazy. Here she is with the wherewithal to film herself shocking herself and her little brothers for fun on an electric fence, all right? The other pictures we were showing you is her with fake blood coming out of her mouth and the black make-up like a clown around her eyes, her fingers pointed to her own head as if she`s going to kill herself.
You know, why, Sue Moss, when people threaten suicide, do they end up killing people in their family and their neighbors? Why?
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY: Oh, because this woman is evil! She`s not trying to kill herself! She knows how to kill somebody. She knows how to stab. She knows how to strangle. She knows how to slit somebody`s throat. She knows how to do the deed, if she really wanted to do it.
GRACE: Whoa. Hold on. You know what...
MOSS: It didn`t take her too long to kill that 9-year-old!
GRACE: ... Sue Moss? You just reminded me of something. She told cops that she dug two graves five days before she lured a 9-year-old little girl to her death. That is premeditation.
MOSS: There was going to be another! Thank God they found her!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MEYER: One specific time -- it was on her birthday. I was at her party. And she kind of just took me off to the side randomly, and she`s, like, you know, I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody, because I guess she was mad at one of her friends there. But it just seemed kind of strange. But you wouldn`t logically think one of your friends would kill somebody, you know?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sheriff said that they received a handwritten note. And he wouldn`t elaborate if someone brought it to them or if they found it. And he said that note led them to find this juvenile, and then it was that juvenile who led them to the body out in the woods. They even went over this area twice and didn`t come across the body until this juvenile led them to the body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We had been through that area actually more than once. The body was very well concealed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Apparently, Elizabeth knew this person.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s just a baby!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She does not deserve this. Her family does not deserve this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`re not going to be able to say a great deal on it, other than to tell you that the person that led us to this is also a juvenile.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s right, the suspect behind bars tonight is not a parolee or an escapee or one of the dozens registered sex offenders that live in the area. It`s a 15-year-old girl.
We are taking your calls live. But right now, I want to go to a very special guest joining us, Vicki Olten. This is little Elizabeth`s aunt. She`s joining us from Russellville, Missouri. Ms. Olten, I thought I knew everything about being a crime victim when my fiance was murdered before our wedding, but I cannot imagine losing John David or Lucy. How are the parents -- how are her parents tonight?
VICKI OLTEN, ELIZABETH OLTEN`S AUNT (via telephone): They`re a wreck. I haven`t heard from her dad today, so I can`t imagine how he`s doing right now. But I know her mom`s a wreck.
GRACE: You know, just hearing the facts, Ms. Olten, I can hardly take it in. She only had about a thousand feet to walk, one thousand feet to get home from her friend`s house. And just the shock of a 15-year-old neighbor girl being the suspect -- I know the family is stunned.
OLTEN: It just -- it`s so unreal.
GRACE: When did you first discover that Elizabeth was missing?
OLTEN: Her oldest sister called me about -- about 7:00 o`clock and told me they couldn`t find her and that they were out looking for her, that (INAUDIBLE) she was headed to her mother`s house. And then they went up to the other house where she was supposed to be playing, and they said she wasn`t there.
GRACE: So she started walking home at 6:15. At 7:00 o`clock, the parents were already on the phone with the police. The parents did everything right. They knew where she was. She was right there in the neighborhood, just a few houses down. That`s why I was so dumbfounded when I found out the little girl`s body was right there. I don`t understand how police didn`t find it.
Now, they keep telling me the child was -- the body was so well concealed. How could a 15-year-old girl trick searchers, police, K-9 dogs? How did she hide Elizabeth?
OLTEN: I would like to know that myself.
GRACE: Oh! Tell me about Elizabeth. In these photos -- her personality just beams out of the photos.
OLTEN: Oh, well, when you see that morning sun pop over the mountain, that`s what she was. She was sunshine. And you can`t help but love her. I mean, she was ornery (ph). She was picking on her brother in this picture that`s showing now here at my house and -- and it was funny. You just had to be here.
GRACE: With me is Elizabeth`s aunt, Vicki Olten. We are taking your calls. Her parents have received the news, as you are, that a suspect is in custody. It`s a 15-year-old neighbor girl, a 15-year-old girl charged with premeditated murder one.
To Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. What do you make of it, Mike?
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, Nancy, you know, they`re saying that it was very well concealed. This is an extremely rural, very wooded area. Now, you know, they said they went through there with dogs. Again, keep in mind, Nancy, dogs are only a tool. They said it was -- when they first -- one of the times they went -- first time they went through, it was raining (INAUDIBLE). Usually, rain is pretty good because the air is more dense. But there again, if this girl, this 15-year-old planned this out, she could have concealed this body.
GRACE: To Marc Klaas, president and founder of Klaas Kids Foundation. I just don`t know how cadaver dogs and bloodhounds could have missed this. Plus, we also know now that the body was not far away from her cell phone. The little girl even had a cell phone. Marc Klaas, she was doing -- the mommy made sure she did everything right. She had a cell phone. She`s only a few houses away, a thousand feet, for Pete`s sake!
MARC KLAAS, KLAAS KIDS FOUNDATION: Yes, it`s -- this is a brutal, brutal situation. But before I get into that too much, I would like to offer my condolence to her family. This is just a terrible experience that they`re going through. Nancy, given...
GRACE: You know what, Marc? Just pause.
KLAAS: Sure.
GRACE: You`re right, everybody else is hashing this through, talking about the facts and the evidence, and it`s easy to forget that right now, there is a family that is devastated. Their hearts are broken. They can`t even take in that their daughter is gone, their little girl is gone. It`s over. All your hopes, all your dreams, all your love -- it`s over. And behind bars is a 15-year-old girl.
KLAAS: Given time and circumstance, a killer will do everything possible to cover up their crime, and that includes disposing of the body. Remember, Caylee Anthony was only a few hundred yards from her home, and it took many months to find her. Remember, the little girl, Summer Thompson (ph), her killer tried to dispose of her by dumping her in a landfill.
So I think we have to give a little bit of credit to the authorities, not for the Amber Alert they didn`t issue when they should have, but for being diligent and ultimately finding the little girl`s body.
GRACE: Dr. Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author of "Deal Breakers," joining us out of the New York studio -- Bethany, weigh in.
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Nancy, the fact that she wrote in a diary and possibly told another friend who then told police speaks volumes. And what it tells me is was there was a fondness for aggression. Whenever teens plan to commit violence and they want to do it and they`re fixated on it, they write about it. We saw this with the Columbine killers. We saw this with Casey Anthony. We see this with school shooters. And usually, the mindset of the killer is that there is a preoccupation with wreaking vengeance and seeking harm and rendering the victims into a very helpless state.
So in this case, it`s violence for the sake of violence. It`s not to cover up another crime, like child molestation. It`s not to kill a child because they took your possession, like a pair of sneakers or something like that. It`s usually correlated with parental aggression, parental brutality, and then carrying that out on a helpless victim.
GRACE: And this is what else I can deduce. I don`t know this yet, but we know that the child was last seen alive at the home of a little playmate, OK? We know that police honed in on a home in that neighborhood and seized evidence. So one plus one equals two, and that`s telling me, Mike Brooks, that that is the home where the alleged killer lived, and that is somehow related to the little playmate where the girl was playing that day. I mean, I`m just putting -- I`m cobbling together facts that -- you know, that are out there. To me, it makes sense.
BROOKS: It makes perfect sense, Nancy. If you look at the map that we were showing just a little while ago, it shows where the body was found. It shows her house. And it shows the house that -- where she was there with the little girl.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: KMIZ reports the home searched shortly after the body was found is the same home the suspect lives in. We learned from neighbors that the home searched is also the home of Elizabeth`s friend she was last seen playing with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: With me right now is a very special guest. Joining us from St. Martin`s, Missouri, Peggy Florence. This is the Olten family spokesperson. Ms. Florence, thank you for being with us.
PEGGY FLORENCE, OLTEN FAMILY SPOKESPERSON (via telephone): Hello, Nancy.
GRACE: Ms. Florence, please tell me how the Olten family is doing tonight.
FLORENCE: Well, the family is doing as well as can be expected. The family is a very strong and loving family, and they`re pulling (ph) upon each other and supporting one another in this terrible time.
GRACE: Ms. Florence, according to all of our sources, this is an extremely safe neighborhood, that the mom did everything right. She knew where her daughter was, just down the street with a playmate. It was about a thousand feet away. It was daylight. She had a cell phone for Elizabeth to stay in touch with her all the time.
FLORENCE: Yes. It was a very safe neighborhood, and she did everything right. She was a very loving and concerned mother.
GRACE: Peggy Florence, the family, the Olten family, knows this 15- year-old girl, is that correct?
FLORENCE: The children played together, yes.
GRACE: Oh! You know, Ms. Florence, we read about statistics, about homicide statistics all the time. I study them. I pore over them to determine patterns and assessing methods of homicide. But I want to talk about Elizabeth and what kind of a girl...
FLORENCE: Thank you.
GRACE: ... she was.
FLORENCE: Thank you.
GRACE: What can you tell me...
FLORENCE: That`s what the family...
GRACE: She`s not just a statistic. This is a beautiful, vivacious little 9-year-old with her whole life ahead of her. Tell me about her.
FLORENCE: I`ve been with the family since this started, and they have shared so many wonderful things with me about Elizabeth -- her smile, she always was happy. She loved her little nieces and nephews. What she aspired to be when she grew up -- she was a little girl -- she wanted to be a mother. She wanted to love others and take care of others.
But she was -- she was -- she was just a lovely child. She was -- she never met an animal she didn`t love and she didn`t dress up and play with. She dressed in fancy little dresses and would go run in the snow and play in the mud. But she was just a beautiful little girly-girl, Nancy, that had everyone`s heart.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten was brutally murdered walking home from a playdate just feet from her house. The alleged killer, 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante, who has just been charged as an adult with first degree murder.
SUSAN MOSS, FAMILY LAW ATTORNEY & CHILD ADVOCATE: The fact that this juvenile didn`t immediately call in and say that there was an accident leads me to think that this was something way more nefarious than that.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: A 15-year-old girl is the murder suspect? Not just murder, premeditated, malice, murder one, this was planned.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bustamante now facing life in prison without parole for allegedly strangling and stabbing Elizabeth Olten. Elizabeth`s body found in a nearby wooded area.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The teen girl suspect`s alleged YouTube profile page lists her hobbies, including cutting and killing people. The YouTube page also contains disturbing video allegedly showing the teen girl suspect giving herself shocks from an electrified fence on purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A police officer testified in court that Bustamante confessed to killing Elizabeth because she wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: She actually told the police that was her motive? She wanted to know what it felt like to kill somebody? Also tonight, we are learning there is evidence that she lured the little girl, a little 9-year-old girl, into the woods. That she had dug a shallow grave several days before in anticipation of murdering this little girl, Elizabeth Olten.
You are seeing photos that have just been obtained today, up until today, because the alleged perpetrator, a 15-year old girl -- it`s a juvenile -- we haven`t been able to show you her face. Well, here she is in all her splendor and glory.
Ladd Egan, news director/anchor at KRCG. Ladd, what happened in court?
LADD EGAN, NEWS DIRECTOR/ANCHOR, KRCH (via phone): First of all, 8:00 in the morning, there was a certification hearing. This hearing, she came in shackled and in an orange jump suit and this hearing was to decide if she would be better served in the juvenile court system or as an adult.
At the end of that hearing, the judge said that she will be tried as an adult. She was immediately rearrested by the sheriffs there and taken and reprocessed. So -- and a lot of bombshells came out in the court proceedings. One of those we learned is that the highway patrol investigator said that five days before the murder on a Friday when school was out, she went out into the woods and dug two graves.
Five days then passed, the weekend. She went back to school for three days before the night of the alleged murder. Also, we learned in court the highway patrol investigator said that Alyssa Bustamante told him she did the murder, she murdered Elizabeth Olten, the 9-year-old, because she wanted to know what it felt like.
GRACE: OK. Motive, evidence out the ying-yang. Of course, not that the state needs to prove motive.
To you, Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer, who has been on the story. Three causes of death, Ellie. One wasn`t enough?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER, COVERING STORY: Right, Nancy. Well, in the indictment, we learned that she`s charged, mind you, with first degree murder and an armed criminal action. And then in the indictment they allege that she strangled, stabbed, and cut the little girl`s throat.
GRACE: OK, Rupa Mikkilineni, from our staff, our producer also on the story, from the very, very beginning.
Rupa, what is the evidence suggesting that she lured the little girl out to the woods to kill her? And isn`t it true that her family had been concerned that she spent so much time in the woods?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: That`s right, Nancy. We have heard from neighbors in the community close by that have observed, first of all, that the two young girls, the 15-year-old and 9-year-old.
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on, Rupa. I just want the viewers to know. You`re seeing this video that this girl, now charged with murder one of a little 9-year-old girl, this is video she herself posted on YouTube or MySpace showing -- electrocuting herself and her little brother on an electric fence. Nice. OK, Rupa.
MIKKILINENI: Right. So the 15-year-old and the 9-year-old, neighbors have said that the 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante is quite thin, quite small. There`s no way, according to their observation that she could have dragged a dead body of a 9-year-old, which is maybe about 60 pounds, 300 or 400 yards outside from the house into the woods where her body was found. So the theory is that the 9-year-old was lured by Bustamante.
GRACE: To Dr. Howard Oliver. Dr. Oliver, stabbed, strangled, throat cut. Why? Why three alleged causes of death and can you tell which one was the actual cause of death?
R. HOWARD OLIVER, FMR. DPY. MEDICAL EXAMINER, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, not all wounds are necessarily deadly. The autopsy will tell which one was deadly, maybe all three were deadly. But apparently she wasn`t successful at killing the other child with one or two methods and had to revert to a third method to finish the little girl off.
GRACE: Elizabeth Olten, 8 years old, on her way home, broad daylight from a little play date. Turns out the play date`s older sister is Bustamante, the 15-year-old now charged in her brutal murder.
Unleash the lawyers. Gloria Allred, Renee Rockwell, Alan Ripka.
Well, Gloria, tonight we know she will be treated as an adult but there`s still a chance she can get out in six years once there has been a plea or a conviction in this case, the judge will then determine whether she will stay in juvenile or be treated as an adult in the adult penal system. It`s called dual jurisdiction.
What do you think about that? She could walk in six years.
GLORIA ALLRED, VICTIM`S RIGHTS ATTORNEY, CHILD ADVOCATE: Well, that`s right, because if she is treated as a juvenile, then she can walk at age 21. And as an adult, she can get life in prison without the possibility of parole. And so my sense of it is that it`s highly likely that she will be treated as an adult.
GRACE: Renee, Alan -- first to you, Renee. Let me guess, she`s crazy, right?
RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Nancy, what else is there? There`s got to be a mental defense in this case.
GRACE: At least you`re honest. At least you`re honest. What else is there? Why do you say that, Renee? Why do you say like that? What else is there?
ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy.
GRACE: Because, you know, when there`s absolutely nothing you can say, you say insanity.
ROCKWELL: Well, Nancy, she`s not going to be able to use anything else like provocation or some type of self-defense. But you have a situation now that she spilled the beans. She`s talked about a grave, two graves, Nancy, that she dug five days in advance.
Can you say premeditation? And the very fact that she`s been certified to be tried as an adult is going to -- she`s clearly facing the possibility that she will spend the rest of her life in jail. So what else is there?
GRACE: Yes, yes. Ripka, Renee is right, you can get life without parole, even if you`re a juvenile at the time you commit the offense. What`s your defense? Your best defense, Alan Ripka? And I shudder to think who was going to be in that second grave she dug.
ALAN RIPKA, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, what`s going to happen here is that statement is going to be thrown out. That statement is going to be thrown out because the officers shouldn`t have took it because she was a minor and as a result of not having those statements.
GRACE: Put him up.
RIPKA: . they will not have corroborating evidence to get prosecution in this case. They have nothing else to say.
GRACE: Do you have any idea whether anybody was with her such as a guardian or lawyer at the time of the statement? You don`t, do you?
RIPKA: Well, my assumption there wasn`t because there`s been no reported.
GRACE: So that`s says a big fat no to me.
RIPKA: Well, Nancy, assuming there was no guardian, then this officer improperly violated her rights.
GRACE: OK.
Everybody, on a happy note, a special happy birthday to Alabama friend of the show Donnie McCleny. At just 80 years young, she loves watching University of Tennessee ball games and most of all spending time with her children and grandchildren.
Happy birthday, beautiful Donnie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A horse drawn carriage carries the remains of the 9-year-old girl hundreds spent two days searching for. The devastating ending to that search drew dozens back together.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a 9-year-old daughter, I have a 4-year- old son, and if one of my children had gone missing, I would hope that the community would come out to help support me.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Among those waiting for Elizabeth while holding pink balloons, the man who brought them. Kerry Bogg is with the business association that partners with Elizabeth`s school.
KERRY BOGG, BUSINESS PARTNER: The last, final sendoff for the young lady.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: As difficult as this is for those who knew or at least knew of Elizabeth, it`s equally hard for those who went to school with the 15-year-old girl accused of killing her and leaving her body in the woods near Elizabeth`s home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The school is in (INAUDIBLE) disarray. It`s real quiet and the halls are kind of -- I mean, they`re offering a lot of counseling for everybody to make sure if you need to talk to somebody, there`s somebody there for you.
It`s just been really quiet. I`ve been there three years at that building and I`ve never seen it be that quiet in all three years.
ALYSSA BUSTAMANTE, 15-YEAR-OLD SUSPECT IN THE KILLING OF ELIZABETH OLTEN: Are you rolling?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BUSTAMANTE: OK. I`m going to grab this fence with my hand.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Yes, that`s what all normal 15-year-old girls do in their spare time. They shock themselves on an electric fence. On YouTube, they post it on YouTube, along with shocking their little brothers. That is video of Bustamante shocking herself.
I guess that`s not going to come into evidence, defense attorneys.
Out to the lines, Amy, Pennsylvania. Hi, Amy.
AMY, CALLER FROM PENNSYLVANIA: Hi, Nancy. How are you?
GRACE: I`m good, dear. What`s your question?
AMY: I`m just a little bit curious here how we haven`t heard any responsibility to the 15-year-old`s parents. It seems to me that there`s probably attorneys out there hush-hushing something because I have three teenage boys and if they get detention, I want to know what`s going on in their life.
GRACE: Good question. What do we know, Ellie Jostad, about her home situation?
JOSTAD: Well, Nancy, we don`t know much about her parents. We do know, however, that her grandmother has been her legal guardian for at least about eight years since 2001.
GRACE: Well, hold on, Miss Ellie. My grandmother, God rest her soul, helped raise me, too. So if anyone is casting aspersions on a grandmother being part of your upbringing, that`s no good.
But what about it, Gloria, Alan? Do you think that`s going to come up at trial, Gloria?
ALLRED: No, I don`t think it`s going to come up at trial. I think it`s about her responsibility. That is the defendant`s lack of responsibility or what she did and that`s about it.
GRACE: Yes. Ripka?
RIPKA: Well, I think I`m going to have the grandmother on the stand discussing or -- you know, a family member discussing what she`s been like her entire life and why -- why she didn`t do this stuff.
GRACE: Unleash the lawyers, Sue Moss, Renee Rockwell, Mickey Sherman. There you go, Renee, what are you going to do with that if that`s your client?
ROCKWELL: Well, first of all, Nancy, that`s a statement that you want to keep out. Was she advised of her rights?
GRACE: Well.
ROCKWELL: Was she with a guardian.
GRACE: You don`t need to scream that any louder. Of course they don`t want that in.
ROCKWELL: And -- but, Nancy, here`s the problem. As well as an attorney could do to keep that out, you`re not going to keep out a statement that she gave to her little girlfriend at a party where she said the exact same thing.
GRACE: Go ahead, Mickey, give it your best try.
MICKEY SHERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "HOW CAN YOU DEFEND THOSE PEOPLE?": She`s clearly psychotic. But no one is going to care because the crime she committed was so despicable. It brings back memories of the Leopold and Loeb, the thrill killers of the `30s where they killed their neighbor just to watch him die.
The problem is, this girl is crazy. She`s on Prozac. She wasn`t on St. Joseph.
GRACE: Hold on.
SHERMAN: Yes.
GRACE: Hold on. Sue Moss, take a look at this video. Liz, can you pull up the video of her on YouTube? She`s not crazy. She may be depressed. She may be suicidal. But that under the law isn`t crazy.
Here she is with the wherewithal to film herself, shocking herself and her little brothers for fun on an electric fence, all right? The other pictures we were showing of you is her with fake blood coming out of her mouth and the black makeup like a clown around her eyes, her fingers pointed to her own head as if she`s going to kill herself.
You know, why, Sue Moss, when people threaten suicide, do they end up killing people in their family and their neighbors, why?
MOSS: Oh, because this woman is evil. She`s not trying to kill herself. She knows how to kill somebody. She knows how to stab, she knows how to strangle, she knows how to slit somebody`s throat. She knows how to do the deed if she really wanted to do it.
GRACE: Whoa, hold on.
MOSS: It didn`t take her too long to kill that 9-year-old.
GRACE: You just reminded me of something. She told cops that she dug two graves five days before she lured a 9-year-old little girl to her death. That is premeditation.
MOSS: There was going to be another. Thank God they found her.
GRACE: Out to the lines. Suzy in California, hi, Suzy.
SUZY, CALLER FROM CALIFORNIA: Hi, Nancy. I just absolutely love you. I first wanted to say that I drop anything I`m doing at 5:00 northern California time to watch your show. I think you are fantastic.
GRACE: I don`t deserve that but.
SUZY: You do.
GRACE: . as I did last night, I`m going to play that back to the twins when they get old enough to actually talk back to me.
SUZY: Well, I am also a Christian. And.
GRACE: Me, too.
SUZY: . I believe in discernment and I`ve never had it through the television, but let me say something, I`m supposed to ask a question, I think.
GRACE: Yes.
SUZY: Is there any child at all in that body of this person? I think she is very much an adult, an evil adult. And, I mean, I get nothing but darkness from her through the television.
GRACE: I guess, Mickey Sherman, that`s not who you want on your jury. You don`t want Suzy in California.
SHERMAN: Not necessarily, because she obviously thinks that this woman is crazy.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: No, no. She didn`t say crazy. She said evil. There`s a big difference between crazy and evil.
SHERMAN: I don`t know if there`s that far of a bridge to build, frankly. What she did speaks -- speaks of the insanity itself. It was an absolutely insane act that she committed.
GRACE: OK, back to Ladd Egan. What happens now? She`s going to be treated like an adult. She was in court, she pled not guilty. Now what?
EGAN: Well, she went back to a county jail but not the county where she was charged in. She had to go to a neighboring county because there`s not room for her in the jail here.
Now the judge has not ruled on that motion filed by her defense attorney to get her moved to a psychiatric hospital and the judge -- the defenders said that this is an immediate need. However, it`s been a week or so.
GRACE: Well, you know what, better safe than sorry. I think she should be moved.
Judge, I hope you`re listening because I want to see her stand trial.
Back to the lawyers. Raymond Giudice, Joe Lawless. OK, Ray, you know how juvenile bind-overs work. The child, as they`re called in the law, this is by no means a child, she`s a 15-year-old, will be at a hearing tomorrow to determine whether she stays behind bars, which I predict she will.
RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, I agree.
GRACE: And, you know, no judge in his or her right mind is going to let an alleged killer, a baby killer, out from behind bars. But then the big question is, will she be treated as an adult. As an adult, she can get life without parole.
GIUDICE: Let me tell you what I would be looking for if I were her counsel. I would gather every single medical record from this 15-year-old.
GRACE: There you go.
GIUDICE: . from the day she was born.
GRACE: There you go.
GIUDICE: Wait a second. Wait a second. Let me tell you what I`m going to do.
GRACE: You never cease to amaze me.
GIUDICE: I`ll get all of her school grades, pre-testing. The -- I want to give that judge every piece of information so that I could do everything I can, as her lawyer, not as the prosecutor, to keep her in the juvenile court. That`s my job.
GRACE: Hey, hey, Giudice.
GIUDICE: If you`re the prosecutor, you do the other job.
GRACE: Just because you drag the word out does not make it anymore significant. So my question is, what do you hope her grades, her school grades are going to tell a judge?
GIUDICE: I want to look for a pattern of this child either having psychological or inability to comprehend the seriousness of the crime. We don`t know. A simple IQ test could make it so this child, this 15-year-old girl does not have the sufficient competency intellectual competency, to stand trial as an adult. It could be that simple, Nancy.
GRACE: Lawless?
JOE LAWLESS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY, AUTHOR OF "PROSECUTORIAL MISCONDUCT": Nancy, the only thing we know about this child is she`s not living with her parents, she`s living with other family members, which suggests a living condition that could have impact on her background. We don`t know the nature of the crime, other than the fact it was a horrible, tragic killing. We don`t know.
GRACE: Put Lawless up.
LAWLESS: We know nothing about the child.
GRACE: Put him up. I know this much, it`s premeditated according to police. And according..
LAWLESS: And according.
GRACE: I`d like to finish. And according to our sources that it`s from a diary. So this child that you`re referring to that has all these mental problems, keeps a diary, a well-written diary with enough detail to clue cops in about what`s happening.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want her home. She has a loving mother and father, two brothers and two sisters wondering where she is. It`s been 24 hours. She`s 9 years old. She`s been gone for two nights now. Please, anybody out there can help us, I mean, I want my niece back. I want her safe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: The search for 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten comes to an end. Her body found in a wooded area, just houses away from her own home. Cops finally close in on the murder suspect.
No, not one of the dozens of registered sex offenders in the area, not a vagrant, not an escapee, not a parolee. It`s a 15-year-old girl. A 15- year-old girl charged with taking the life of a 9-year-old because she, quote, "wanted to know how it felt to kill."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you ever had (INAUDIBLE) just reach inside you and put your heart out? That is what it`s like.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: New details emerge in the case of 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten who police say was stabbed and strangled by 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante. A friend of the teen girl defendant claims Bustamante once talked about what it would be like to kill someone.
The friend said Bustamante seemed like an ordinary girl but allegedly spoke about suicide and depression frequently.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was at her party and she kind of took me off to the side randomly and she`s like, you know, I wonder what it would be like to kill somebody, because I guess she was mad at one of her friend there. But it just seemed kind of strange but you wouldn`t logically think one of your friends would kill somebody.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Authorities say Bustamante has a history of mental illness including receiving in-patient mental health treatment for a suicide attempt two years ago.
GRACE: Malice or premeditation can be formed in the blink of an eye. The snap of a finger. The time it takes you to raise a gun and pull the trigger.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The highway patrol investigators said that five days before the murder on a Friday when school was out, she went out into the woods and dug two graves. Five days then passed, the weekend. She went back to school for three days before the night of the alleged murder.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Bustamante`s attorney says the 15-year-old`s mental health is still an issue, asking a judge to place Bustamante in a psychiatric hospital after showing signs of depression and cutting herself since her arrest.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She killed for sport, she killed for a thrill, she`s a cold blooded psychopath. No remorse, no guilt. Or maybe who`s watched one too many slasher films and so that`s the kind of thing I want to do because that`ll give me the fun which I don`t get out of normal teen activities.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Tonight, let`s stop and remember Army Specialist Robert Hall, Jr., 30, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, killed Iraq. Lost his life just one day after talking to his toddler girl.
Remembered as thoughtful, dedicated to family. Loved video games, movies, time with his little girl. Leaves behind grieving mom, Midge, brother Steven, sisters Kara, Lorie, widow Tracy and little girl Rachel.
Robert Hall, Jr., American hero.
Thank you for being with us. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
