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NANCY GRACE
Chloroform Traces Found in Syringe Near Caylee`s Body
Aired November 6, 2009 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight in the search for a 2-year-old Florida girl, Caylee. Six months of searching culminate when skeletal remains found in a heavily wooded area 15 houses from the Anthony home confirmed to be little Caylee. A utility meter reader stumbles on a tiny human skeleton, including a skull covered in light-colored hair, the killer duct-taping and placing a heart-shaped sticker directly over the mouth, then triple bagging little Caylee like she`s trash.
Bombshell tonight. As we go to air, just when we think we`ve heard it all in the tot mom investigation, another horrific heart-wrenching detail surfaces. Tonight, we learn found at the crime scene, along with little Caylee`s remains, syringes loaded with chloroform, the super-powerful knock-out drug, the same drug found in tot mom`s car trunk. With the deadly syringes, a Gatorade bottle also loaded with chloroform, the bombshell suggesting tot mom cooked up homemade chloroform, carried it in the Gatorade bottle, then injecting it directly into her 2-year-old girl`s body, bound with duct tape. And don`t forget computer forensics reveal multiple Google searches on tot mom`s computer on how to make chloroform.
At the same time, freaky jailhouse photos of tot mom emerge, including close-ups of a tattoo covering part of her back shoulder reading "Bella Vita," Italian for "The beautiful life." Kicker, she got it just after Caylee goes missing. Grandparents George and Cindy take off on a luxury cruise to the Bahamas after reportedly raking in $20,000 licensing fees for their private photos of little Caylee.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY, CAYLEE`S MOTHER: They got all of their information from me, yet at the same time, they`re twisting stuff. They`re -- they`ve already said they`re going to pin this on me if they don`t find Caylee.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY`S FATHER: I believe that there`s something (INAUDIBLE) I smell it, I`m, like, Oh, God. I think I whispered out to myself, Please don`t let this be Caylee.
There was an overpowering smell. I admit that.
CASEY ANTHONY: I forgive whoever has her and that I just want her to come home. I just want my baby back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI says it found, quote, " an unusually large concentration of chloroform far greater than what is seen in human decomposition in the carpet sample from Casey`s trunk, where investigators found a mysterious stain.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Maybe my daughter ran over something.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY`S MOTHER: She`s not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I, as a mom, I know in my gut, there`s feelings. A parent knows certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling, that presence. I know that she`s alive.
My entire life has been taken from me!
GEORGE ANTHONY: Every single one of -- you don`t realize what you`ve done to us, and you don`t care!
CASEY ANTHONY: I`m frustrated and I`m angry.
You don`t understand! Everybody wants me to have answers. I don`t have any answers! I`m not in control over any of this because I don`t know what the hell`s going on.
Mommy loves her very much, and she`s the most important thing in this entire world to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And breaking news tonight, live, New Mexico. EMTs, police race to a private home, Albuquerque suburbs after a 911 call reports a gunshot to the head of a young father of three, shot in his own home. Alleged shooter, Daddy`s 10-year-old little boy, angry over being grounded.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need a doctor. My dad`s dying.
911 OPERATOR: OK, what`s the address?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. Let me go check the box.
He`s bleeding very badly. He fell asleep. (INAUDIBLE) Oh, I hope he`ll live!
911 OPERATOR: All right. What`s going on with him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His head is bleeding, the back.
911 OPERATOR: How old is he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know! I don`t know! Just hurry! Get over here!
911 OPERATOR: OK, stay on the phone with me. I`m getting them en route.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry up! Please!
911 OPERATOR: Do you know how this happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
911 OPERATOR: Do you know how this happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was so over my head. I shot him in the back of the head. I got so angry at him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Stunning twist tonight in the 2-year-old Caylee Anthony tot mom investigation. New evidence found at the scene with little Caylee`s remains. Did tot mom cook up homemade chloroform, carrying it in a Gatorade bottle, then injecting it into her 2-year-old little girl`s body bound with duct tape?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we had to do is Google how do you make chloroform and we found more than a million Web sites with instructions. On the first one we found, page one had an explicit warning about chloroform`s dangers, calling the chemical extremely dangerous and unpredictable and warning never to allow children to come near chloroform. FBI lab tests show high levels of chloroform in the trunk of Casey`s car where investigators say Caylee`s body had been. And there was a mysterious stain in the trunk along with Caylee`s hairs and dirt.
CINDY ANTHONY: If you think of anything that could help, don`t be afraid.
CASEY ANTHONY: Oh, I won`t hesitate to let you guys know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Being forthcoming and being truthful are two completely separate things.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you all think she was being forthcoming?
CASEY ANTHONY: As far as anything else at the moment, there`s either nothing that I can obviously give to you now, or you know, there really honestly isn`t anything I can think of at this exact moment.
CINDY ANTHONY: If you`d have told them the truth and not lied about everything...
How come she never got a chance to get the car? Doesn`t make sense.
I trust Casey.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I know my daughter`s not leveling with me. And I know it`s what she`s done in the past.
CASEY ANTHONY: All I want is Caylee home. But I want to be there when she comes home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight out to Mark Williams, anchor/reporter, on the case from the very, very beginning, joining us from Florida. This is a bombshell. In case anybody had any doubts on how little Caylee died, now police reveal that they found just a few feet from little Caylee`s remains, her skeletal remains bound with duct tape, syringes loaded with chloroform and a Gatorade bottle with chloroform in it, as well. Tell me about it, Mark Williams. What do you know?
MARK WILLIAMS, ANCHOR/REPORTER (via telephone): Well, it`s all part, Nancy, of 2,100 pages of documents released today by the state attorney`s office dealing with the Anthony affair. And of course, the bombshell, FBI lab techs...
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on, Mark.
WILLIAMS: OK.
GRACE: Hold on one second. Everybody, you are seeing the shot that we have just gotten in. These are official homicide investigative shots. And you can see very often at the bottom where they put a ruler up at the bottom of each shot so a jury will be able to tell how big each item is. You are just seeing the lid to the Gatorade bottle and one of these syringes loaded with chloroform just revealed.
Go ahead, Mark Williams.
WILLIAMS: Well, those FBI lab techs detected traces of chloroform inside that sports drink bottle, as well as that plastic syringe which you`ve documented. But inside that cool (ph) blue (ph) flavored Gatorade drink containing what they called an unknown liquid, the bottle also contained a plastic bag labeled "disposable syringe kit." There was a plastic that was inside the bag. Further tests showed that the syringe contained traces of chloroform, testosterone, ethanol and water.
And as you already documented, in March of 2008, somebody got on the Anthony computer at home and used the search word "chloroform," "neck- breaking," and how to kill people with household products, Nancy.
GRACE: I`m sick. I`m just sick. And what`s so stunning about this, Mark Williams -- we are showing the photos that we have just obtained out of over 2,000 pages of police investigation. What`s so stunning about it is that many people came up with a scenario, I guess sort of to make themselves feel better about it, that she was just trying to knock the little girl out so she could go out and party and would put the girl in the trunk, OK, as if that`s not bad enough, Mark Williams. But now that we find chloroform in syringes -- in syringes! -- that brings up the specter, it conjures up the theory that she injected chloroform directly into her 2- year-old`s body, Mark Williams!
WILLIAMS: Nancy, this is the smoking gun that the prosecution needed, and they have it. It`s been signed, sealed and delivered to them. Also, insects, known as -- microscopic in size, they`re known as "coffin flies," thrive on decomposition. They were found in the trunk of the car. There was paper towels in the trunk of the car to clean up the stain that was there, and there were all those coffin flies, again giving prosecution experts a smoking gun.
And that report also says that near the skeletal remains, Nancy, insects had built a colony, showing that bugs had seeped into -- into the bones of little Caylee Anthony. And they were placed there in late June or early July of 2008, which blows out another theory saying that Caylee -- or Casey never put the bones there and that somebody else had put the body there.
GRACE: To Ellie Jostad, our chief editorial producer on the story. Tell me more about the insects, Ellie. What did we learn in those documents today?
ELLIE JOSTAD, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Right. Well, this is the first time that we`ve gotten a look at this fill report. It`s a forensic entomological exam done by Dr. Neil Haskell (ph), noted expert out of Indiana. As Mark explained, there are two main reports here, one of them explaining that there were coffin flies in the trunk.
GRACE: OK, "coffin flies" is a unique term. Jean Casarez, explain.
JEAN CASAREZ, IN SESSION CORRESPONDENT: Coffin flies come upon something when there is decomposition. That`s what they veer toward. And they found the coffin flies on towels in Casey Anthony`s car trunk and they found the coffin flies within the remains. And they say that shows the coffin flies veered there in June or July. So what that shows for the prosecution is that the time of death was shortly after Caylee Anthony went missing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: The stink that was in the trunk of my daughter`s car, after we got it home -- and I mean, I opened up the trunk. We had the windows rolled down, the sunroof open. Instantaneously, it gets into your house just like that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: We have a 3-year-old that`s been missing for a month.
911 OPERATOR: A 3-year-old?
CINDY ANTHONY: Yes.
911 OPERATOR: Have you reported that?
CINDY ANTHONY: I`m trying to do that now, ma`am.
CASEY ANTHONY: There`s nothing to find out. There`s absolutely nothing to find out, and that`s even what I told the detectives.
LEE ANTHONY, CASEY`S BROTHER: Well, you know, everything that you`re telling them is a lie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I have no clue where Caylee is. If I knew where Caylee was, do you think any of this would be happening? No.
CINDY ANTHONY: We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl! I need to find her!
I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at! Are you kidding me?
CINDY ANTHONY: I love her and I support her and that I understand, and every day that goes by, I know exactly how hard it is that she`s giving up her life to protect her child.
My daughter may have mistruths out there or half truths, but she`s not a murderer.
There`s no evidence that Casey has ever done any harm to her child.
CASEY ANTHONY: I, as a mom, I know in my gut, there`s feelings as a parent, you know certain things about your child. You can feel that connection. And I still have that feeling.
CINDY ANTHONY: What she told me and what I found out was two different things. I don`t know Casey`s reasons for telling me except that what she`s told me. She told me she was protecting Caylee and she`s protecting the family. And until this day, I still believe that she`s protecting Caylee and the family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: I wonder how she was protecting Caylee when just days after Caylee goes missing, according to her, she`s slung (ph) up at the tattoo parlor, getting The good life," the beautiful life tattooed on her back shoulder -- Rosie, do we have a shot of that -- written in Italian. Now, that will take some explaining. Let`s move that lower -- lower banner, please. That will take some explaining to a jury. There you see it on the left, "The good life."
But you know what? Right now, I`m not so worried about her tattoos. I`m more concerned with the bombshell evidence that has just emerged today. The state`s theory about the use of chloroform to murder little Caylee has now been substantiated. We learn syringes found just a few feet away from little Caylee`s remains loaded with chloroform, along with this. You are seeing the police investigative photos, a Gatorade bottle also loaded with chloroform.
Joining me right now is special guest Dr. Jake Deutsch. He is a doctor in New York joining us tonight. Doctor, thank you so much for being with us. Doctor, if the body were left there, abandoned there back in, say, July, how could chloroform still be in the syringes all those months later? Doesn`t it evaporate? Or was there just so much chloroform, the fluid was still there?
DR. JAKE DEUTSCH, EMERGENCY MEDICINE: You know, chloroform would normally evaporate, but if you`re talking in a closed syringe inside other containers, absolutely, it would still be there. So it sounds like there was a pretty substantial amount, and that definitely is not something that just was there from decomposition. This is something that was intentionally left there and certainly looks to be used for the wrong purposes.
GRACE: Dr. Deutsch, you just brought up a crucial point, in my mind, for both sides, the prosecution and defense, because the defense is going to argue that traces of chloroform found in tot mom`s car trunk were the result of...
DEUTSCH: Decomposition.
GRACE: ... some -- right, some other type of decomposition, some other chemical reaction, cleaning solution. That`s what they`re going to argue at trial.
DEUTSCH: Right.
GRACE: But there is no such argument for the chloroform found inside formerly sterile syringes...
DEUTSCH: Right.
GRACE: ... and inside a Gatorade bottle.
DEUTSCH: Right, that are clearly drawn up with the intention of injecting it. So this was something that was synthesized and -- you know, potentially, and then drawn up with the purpose of administering it and administering it for illegal purposes. Chloroform`s not routinely found in syringes and it`s certainly nothing that we`re using routinely in the medical community. So this reeks of...
GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on, Doctor. Not to interrupt, but you said not commonly used in the medical community. Isn`t it true that back in the `70s, chloroform was banned for consumer use?
DEUTSCH: Right. I mean, because of the side effects and how dangerous it is, so when I say...
GRACE: What side effects? What side effects?
DEUTSCH: The lethal side effects, the toxicity that was found to be associated with it and the volatile state of it. So using it as an anesthetic is just very unreliable, so it was replaced with more modern and more reliable medications.
GRACE: Doctor Deutsch, while I`ve still got you, how would testosterone or ethanol end up in there? Is that somehow...
DEUTSCH: This is a big mystery to me. I mean, testosterone is a hormone that`s naturally found in the body, but it`s also used by people who are abusing steroids for body building purposes or people that are maybe having gender reassignment. So I mean, they maybe should be looking for somebody who is using steroids or has that type of predilection...
GRACE: Wow.
DEUTSCH: I`m also wondering, is there any blood on this syringe? Are they testing it for DNA? There would certainly be evidence there if it was used to inject into this (INAUDIBLE)
GRACE: With me right now, Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Weigh in, Mike.
MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, you know, you listen to Dr. Deutsch, and he`s absolutely right. There could be some blood in that. But you know, there could also be fingerprint evidence because it was inside a sealed plastic bag. What I think we have here, Nancy, is game, set and match.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASEY ANTHONY: Could someone let me -- come on!
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey, hold on, sweetheart. Settle down.
CASEY ANTHONY: Nobody`s letting me speak!
CINDY ANTHONY: I still believe my daughter.
GEORGE ANTHONY: I believe in my daughter.
CINDY ANTHONY: I already answered this question.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you believe she was fabricating...
CINDY ANTHONY: I already answered the question. I`m not answering it again.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any interest in helping us?
CASEY ANTHONY: I`ve had interest in helping law enforcement from the beginning. Unfortunately, my hands were clearly tied and I was put in a position where someone`s trying to trick...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I don`t want...
CASEY ANTHONY: ... a confession out of me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no...
CASEY ANTHONY: And that`s not going to happen.
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey has lied to me in the past. And when she`s lied, she`s told me the truth. We`ve always gotten to the bottom of the truth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Stunning evidence, both horrific and heart-wrenching, just emerges today, in over 2,000 pages of homicide investigative files. We learn that not far from little Caylee`s 2-year-old body, her remains, syringes loaded with the powerful sedative no longer used for consumer use, chloroform. Beside it, a Gatorade bottle in a Disney bag also loaded with chloroform.
Out to bounty hunter joining us from Sacramento, California, Leonard Padilla. Leonard, thank you for being with us. Are you surprised? This is a completely different mode of death than what we had imagined.
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER: It`s a sad day for me because I kept wanting to give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn`t intend to kill her, that she merely wanted to put her to sleep and then it -- it went -- you know, it went awry.
However, as you said earlier, you know, I don`t see how anybody can duck all of these things that are now gathered. And I got to tell you this. The doctor and Mike Brooks are telling you something that the FBI, no doubt, has more evidence off that syringe, off that bottle, and they`re just putting it out when it`s necessary.
But at this stage of the game, you know, it`s just -- I`ve had a tough day all day today because I just wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt. Tracy (ph), who befriended her, spent those 10 days with her, has been really, really in sad shape all day. And I`ve even asked Tracy, Is there -- is there something that maybe you didn`t tell Nick Savage (ph)? Is there something you didn`t tell the cops when they were out here talking to you? You know, there just seems to be something missing there. And -- and -- and I`m telling you, it`s been a -- it`s been a very, very tough day here in the office because of the revelations that came out today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY: When I drove around, I told my wife, I said, This all right stinks so bad, I can`t -- I`m having a hard time driving it home. It`s raining outside. I have the windows down in this car probably about this much to get home. I couldn`t frigging breathe.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: A source close to the investigation says there is evidence of traces of chloroform in the car of Caylee Anthony`s mother. Police confiscated Casey Anthony`s computer after her July arrest and found visits to Web sites with information about chloroform.
CINDY ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S MOTHER: There`s something wrong. I smelled my daughter`s car today and it smells like there`s been a dead body in the damn car. There was a bag of pizza for, what, 12 days in the back of the car full of maggots it stunk so bad.
GEORGE ANTHONY, CASEY ANTHONY`S FATHER: There was an overpowering smell, I`ll admit that.
C. ANTHONY: There was no odor in the car when it was towed down to the towing company. No odor.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have forensic evidence that has been returned to us regarding the vehicle. Preliminary information indicates that there is decomposition in that vehicle from a human body.
C. ANTHONY: Maybe someone put a body in the car after it was towed to the tow yard.
G. ANTHONY: Maybe my daughter ran over something.
C. ANTHONY: They (INAUDIBLE) don`t mean anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight we learned from over 2,000 pages of homicide investigative files that a syringe loaded with chloroform and a Gatorade bottle, also full of chloroform, found feet away from little Caylee`s skeleton still bound with duct tape.
Out to Tristan Lambert, professor of chemistry at Columbia University.
Professor, thank you for being with us. Professor, two quick questions. Number one, if chloroform had been in the syringe for many, many months -- we were talking to Dr. Deutsche about this earlier. How quickly would it have evaporated? How much chloroform would have to be loaded in that syringe for it to still be in there six, eight months later?
TRISTAN LAMBERT, PROFESSOR OF CHEMISTRY, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY (via phone): No, I agree. I don`t think that -- if the syringe is closed, I don`t think any of (INAUDIBLE) would evaporate. It would be as if you had it in a closed container.
GRACE: OK. And what do you think of the fact that testosterone was also found in that syringe. Is that a byproduct of some sort of chloroform?
LAMBERT: No, certainly not. The doctor before had it absolutely right. He certainly knows more about it than I do. But testosterone is a quite complex molecule. There`s no way that it`s going to arise from anything as simple as chloroform. Chloroform can be made in the home with simple chemicals. Testosterone is something you`re going to need to get from a medical establishment.
GRACE: How is chloroform made in the home, Professor Lambert?
LAMBERT: Well, it can be made in a number of ways, all of which involved very simple chemicals. Some of the easiest ways has your recipes in the Internet. They are using things like rubbing alcohol and bleach or ethanol and bleach. You just mix those together and pretty much, one of the things that comes out of the reaction is chloroform.
GRACE: To Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport." OK, Pat. Before now, so many people had wanted to take the softest scenario possible and that would be that tot mom had tried to gas or chloroform her little girl when she wanted to go out and party, bind her and put her in the car trunk, thinking she won`t remember anything. But these -- this syringe changes everything.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": Absolutely. This is a little map there, ABC, home, car, death spot with syringe. And I want to say the best part about it is she`s got very grandiose thinking. So instead of a simple kill, she made up this master plan, with all these fanciness.
Leaving evidence on her computer, in the car and stupidly leaving the syringe with the body at the site so that we put together instead of tossing it out the window some place. So it`s a good thing that she wasn`t very bright because otherwise we may never have been able to catch her and.
GRACE: I`m just wondering.
BROWN: . and hopefully convict her.
GRACE: I`m just wondering, Mike Brooks, if fingerprints are going to emerge on that syringe.
MIKE BROOKS, HLN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST; FMR. D.C. POLICE DET., FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: You know there is a very good possibility, Nancy, because you have the syringe inside of a plastic bag inside of this sport drink bottle.
You know, but where does she get the syringe? Would you have -- when you have the testosterone, that could have come from someone who is using human growth, HGH, human growth hormone, possibly for body building. So let`s go back and look at all the witnesses we have on the list that were friends of hers to see if they were involved in any kind of that activity.
GRACE: That`s a really good point. Let`s unleash the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Stacy Schneider, defense attorney in the New York jurisdiction. Out of Atlanta, former prosecutor turned defense attorney, Greg McKeithen.
All right, Stacy, this really excludes the theory of an accidental overdose, which would have been an aggravated assault anyway, resulting in death, which is felony murder which is death penalty qualified. But here there`s no way. If you`ve got a syringe full of chloroform, she had to be, according to the state, injecting it directly into her little girl.
STACY SCHNEIDER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You`re right, Nancy. I can`t disagree. This just shows premeditated murder. That syringe was prepared with the chloroform. And there`s no two ways about it. But, a door has opened for the defense here that I see.
First, with the testosterone. I would send -- if I were defending Casey, I would send my investigative team out and look at the males involved in this case and see if the syringe came from someone, as Mike Brooks said, who was perhaps a body builder and this was a used syringe that they were reusing to commit this act, and the next thing I would focus in on is Casey`s ex-boyfriend because there was one computer that`s been.
GRACE: Put Schneider up on the screen.
SCHNEIDER: Nancy.
GRACE: Put her up.
SCHNEIDER: I`m right here.
GRACE: You certainly know how to make lemonade out of lemons.
SCHNEIDER: That`s my job.
GRACE: If you can find a silver lining to this bombshell for the defense. What about it, McKeithen?
GREG MCKEITHEN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I think we also must examine the fact whether or not we can link any of this evidence to her. First of all, we don`t know if there are fingerprints that link her to -- we don`t know if she has an alibi. We don`t know if we can even connect her directly or indirectly to this evidence. Perhaps we can argue circumstantial evidence but that alone is not enough to exclude the possibility that she`s innocent.
GRACE: Back to Jean Casarez, legal correspondent, "In Session." Jean, what can you tell me about the Anthonys taking a luxury cruise the very week that the judge refused to throw out tot mom`s murder charge?
JEAN CASAREZ, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, they took a cruise. And they have the right to take a cruise. What I think is interesting about this cruise, though, is when you`re on a cruise sometimes you wear a bathing suit. And they did.
And what was shown were some tattoos on Cindy, it is one of Caylee Marie with a heart that`s on her stomach and George has a tattoo, both in remembrance of Caylee, a girl with sun beams beaming down.
Now I think there`s a significance here. I`d like to know when they got the tattoos because I think symbolically they`re trying to show that someone in mourning can get a tattoo to minimize the effect of Casey Anthony`s tattoo that says "Bea Vita."
GRACE: Jean Casarez, I agree with you. If anybody needs a rest, it`s these two after what they have been through. There is the tattoo Jean Casarez is referring to. This is one of those freaky jail shots we told you about.
The state prosecutors requested the shot to show tot mom`s tattoo she got just days after she herself says her daughter goes missing. She was at a tattoo parlor.
Back to the Anthonys, no problem with them getting away from it all. You know they need a break. But what about the $20,000 many reports say came from one of the networks underwriting the trip?
CASAREZ: Well, that`s what people are alleging. They`re alleging that there may have been some money for photos and video that they used for a recent "48 Hours" shoot, and then they went on the cruise. Those are all allegations. And I guess if they got the money, they can do anything with it. But factually speaking, if that`s the case, they didn`t use it for Casey`s defense.
GRACE: Everyone, a quick break. I want to remind you, November, Lung Cancer Awareness Month. The number one cancer killer in the world. Claims more lives that breast, colon, prostate, liver, melanoma, and kidney cancer combined. Killing more women a year than breast cancer.
You don`t have to smoke to get lung cancer. This Saturday, November 7, 8:00 a.m., the Lung Cancer Alliance Run-Walk Alpharetta, Georgia. For info on this and other happenings across the U.S. go to lungcanceralliance.com. The Bonnie J. Addario Lung Cancer Foundation at lungcancerfoundation.org, and the Joan Gaeta Lung Cancer Foundation at Joangaeta.org.
Together, we can win the fight against lung cancer.
As we go to break, happy birthday to Georgia friend, Barney Walker. Long-time member of First Baptist Church, Fayetteville. Loves greeting the congregation every Sunday and fishing. Married to true love, Sue, for 57 years.
Happy birthday, Barney.
And happy birthday to Tennessee friend, investigative reporter, Nicole Partin.
Happy birthday, dear Nicole.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Do you know how this happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Huh?
911 OPERATOR: Do you know how this happened?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was so over my head. I shot him in the back of the head. I got so angry at him.
911 OPERATOR: How old are you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 10.
911 OPERATOR: He`s 10.
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911 OPERATOR: They are on their way. How long ago did this happen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got angry at him.
911 OPERATOR: OK. But did this just happen? How long ago?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. A coupe of.
911 OPERATOR: Minutes ago?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of minutes ago. Hurry up!
911 OPERATOR: 911.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need a doctor. My dad is dying.
911 OPERATOR: OK. What`s the address?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know. Let me go check the box. He`s bleeding very badly. He fell asleep. Oh, I hope you`ll live. Oh please hurry.
911 OPERATOR: How old is he? Do you know?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don`t. Hurry up. He`s dying.
911 OPERATOR: Yes. What`s your name?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: To Rupa Mikkilineni, our producer on the story, break it down for me, Rupa. What exactly happened?
RUPA MIKKILINENI, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: August 27th, the 10-year-old, now 11-year-old, was at his home with his father which is where he resided. He resided with his two other siblings, a sister and a brother. Younger sister is 6 years old.
He called 911. He frantically called saying he needed help, he needed doctors, the police to come. He said his father was asleep then when asked what did he do he said -- he admitted he shot his father in the back of the head.
GRACE: What do we know about possible motivation, Rupa?
MIKKILINENI: Well, the operator asked the little boy this. And he said he was angry, I lost my head. I got angry. And later when police interviewed him, we understand he said that he was upset that his father been punishing him and grounded him.
GRACE: Punishing him for what? Do we know?
MIKKILINENI: We don`t know.
GRACE: OK. To Mark Hillman, clinical psychotherapist, author of "My Therapist is Making Me Nuts."
Dr. Hillman, what do you make of it? We know that a child this age, 10 years old at the time of the shooting, cannot, under any circumstances in Mexico, be treated as an adult. He will not be facing life or life without parole. But what do you make of this? You heard his voice on the 911 call.
MARK HILLMAN, CLINICAL PSYCHOTHERAPIST, AUTHOR OF "MY THERAPIST IS MAKING ME NUTS": I don`t think he fully understood what was going on. You know there`s so many resources here. Child and Family Protection Services were called to the house nine times. Only one substantiated with the abuse to the wife.
So we don`t really know yet to what extent those abuse charges and how that may have affected this little boy. The other questions I have are how come the three siblings are not living with their mother. Most of the time, unless a mother is proved incompetent, the children would reside with her. Why with the father?
And the last thing I had was child protection said that guns were securely stowed away. How does a 10-year-old have a secure safe -- how does he have access to that? So I think in terms of just shooting, I don`t think he fully understood the extent of what the damage was going to be.
And then the other concern is the 6-year-old, his sister, who was an eyewitness to this, how will that ultimately impact her, long term, watching the blood spatter?
And now she and her other siblings are living with relatives, and not the biological mom. These are all questions that are going to surface as the investigation continues.
GRACE: Dr. Mark Hillman, you are so right, again. Doctor, take a listen. I want you and Pat Brown to hear this 911 call again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Who else is there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My little sister. Wait, I think I can hear the sirens.
911 OPERATOR: The son did. The 10-year-old.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
911 OPERATOR: No, it`s on his dad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old is dad?
911 OPERATOR: He doesn`t know.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, my sister`s crying her head off. I think I hear the sirens.
911 OPERATOR: OK. They`re on their way. OK? Stay on the phone with me until they`re there. Where`s the gun at?
911 OPERATOR: The gun is in my dad`s gun closet.
911 OPERATOR: What`s going on with him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His head is bleeding, the back.
911 OPERATOR: How old is he?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know! Just hurry! Get over here!
911 OPERATOR: OK. Stay on the phone with me. I`m getting them en route.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry up, please!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: OK, to the lawyers, Greg McKeithen, Stacy Schneider. Schneider out of New York, McKeithen out of Atlanta.
Stacy, as a former prosecutor, I don`t think the boy understood what he did.
SCHNEIDER: I`m on the page with you, Nancy. I have defended many, many juvenile delinquents charged with violent felonies. And I set them down in my office to have a talk about what happened. And they don`t have the life experience, the sophistication, the mental capacity, the intelligence to understand the acts.
Their bodies are capable of pulling triggers, but the mind doesn`t follow. And it`s a very sad situation that he`s charged with first-degree murder for premeditation. It just doesn`t fit.
GRACE: Well, hold on. Hold on. Before you go crazy on that. To you, Rupa Mikkilineni, then back to McKeithen, in this jurisdiction, this child cannot get treated as an adult. All right? The max he would ever do is until age 21. What do you know, Rupa?
MIKKILINENI: That`s right, Nancy. He`s 10 years old, he just turned 11. He`s not being charged as an adult. He is being charged as a juvenile first-degree murder. And my understanding from the police is that the maximum that he can get is incarceration until he`s 21.
GRACE: To Greg McKeithen, what`s your defense?
MCKEITHEN: I agree with that, Nancy. Let me also add, I would first have him examined by forensic psychiatrist and then use that as a basis for my defense who alleged that the child did not appreciate what he did and doesn`t understand.
GRACE: Good point.
MCKEITHEN: . between right and wrong.
GRACE: Weigh in, Brooks.
BROOKS: You know, did his father ever take him hunting before? Did he know the effects of a shotgun? But he had the wherewithal to take that gun and put it back in the father`s gun closet. Did he get it from there? Did he have access to these guns? These are all questions I have and I think they need to be answered.
GRACE: Well, my concern is that when you hear him on the 911 call, he`s clearly trying to get them there to save his father. He doesn`t get that he killed his father.
Everyone, very quickly, "CNN Heroes."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Heroes.
MARY J. BLIGE, SINGER: Hi. I`m Mary J. Blige. I have the honor of performing at the first CNN Heroes, an all-star tribute recognizing everyday people who changed the world.
As president of FAWN, I`m dedicating myself to help women to reach their full potential in life. Now, more than ever, the world needs heroes. And I am thrilled to help CNN introduce one of this year`s top 10 honorees.
ROY FOSTER, STAND DOWN HOUSE FOUNDER: How can I turn my back and walk away and leave you right here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can.
FOSTER: I can`t. Because I know you wouldn`t turn your back and leave me.
Nationwide, veterans are neglected, homeless, unacceptable.
What branch of service?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Army.
FOSTER: Army. So was I. We are still brothers-in-arms, so no man left behind.
My name is Roy Foster and my mission is to help and empower homeless veterans. If you`re going to work for sobriety, you got to change. Stand Down House provides services for veterans only. A safe, clean place to live, all the meals and to health services. The camaraderie, it is that internal glue.
Tell him one of his brothers-in-arms came out looking for him and let him know yes, we will be back. They are the best and they deserve this. What I do, I love. I love it.
ANNOUNCER: CNN Heroes is sponsored by.
Vote for your favorite hero now at CNN.com/heroes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: What a week in America`s courtrooms. Take a look at the stories and, more importantly, the people who touched our lives.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are proud to (INAUDIBLE) this little girl. This is Shannon Lea Dedrick.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Relatives of baby Shannon learned that not only had she been found that that she`s alive.
GRACE: This is a miracle. Look at this baby. Look at the baby. She`s absolutely gorgeous. When I think of what could have happened to this child.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Miss Carmichael was the first one recovered from the backyard. And she was a ligature strangulation. There was something around her neck.
GRACE: Your daughter was one of the victims allegedly of Anthony Sowell. Miss Carmichael, would you tell me about your little girl? Would you please tell me about her? What was she like growing up?
BARBARA CARMICHAEL, MOM OF TONIA CARMICHAEL, DAUGHTER`S BODY FOUND IN SEX OFFENDER HOME: She`s always been a beautiful person to me, of course. Very laugh, very active, very fun loving. Outgoing and friendly.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Stunning developments today in the case of 9- year-old Elizabeth Olten whose body was found in a heavily wooded area behind her home. Social networking sites are allegedly painting a dark portrait of the 15-year-old teen girl accused of murdering Elizabeth Olten. The teen girl suspect`s alleged YouTube profile page lists her hobbies, including cutting and killing people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And Twitter -- now all been erased. Maybe her attorney, her family (INAUDIBLE) and erased those but before they were erased.
GRACE: But.
(CROSSTALK)
GRACE: I got it. I`ve got the Twitter and the YouTube and, let me tell you, it`s sick, weird, and twisted.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRACE: Let`s stop and remember Army Corporal Cody Putnam, 22, Lafayette, Indiana, killed Iraq. A paratrooper on a second tour. Loved sports, baseball, basketball, football, e-mailing family back home.
Leaves behind mom Pam, stepdad Larry, brother Harry, sister Tiffany, widow and high school sweetheart, Molly, and 6-year-old little girl Madeleine.
Cody Putnam, American hero.
Thanks to our guests but especially to you for being with us. A special good night from the New York control room. Good night, Dean, Norm, Rosy, aka Evil.
Everyone, I`ll see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
