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Missing Toddler`s Mom Spends First Day Out of Jail
Aired August 22, 2008 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Breaking news tonight. Police desperately searching for that beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee after her grandparents report her missing, little Caylee now not seen for nine long weeks, last seen with her mother.
Mom, Casey Anthony, walks free from jail after a California bounty hunter and bail bondsman put up 50 grand. Her first official full day out of confinement, what is mom, Casey, doing to help in the search for her little girl? Tucked away behind closed doors, the Anthony family say they still believe little Caylee was kidnapped and say mom, Casey, is providing new details and new leads she couldn`t reveal behind bars.
Casey Anthony now under 24-hour protection and strict bail conditions, fitted with an ankle monitoring device, still facing criminal charges of child neglect and lying to investigators. We learn just hours ago, mom, Casey, leaves home confinement to meet with her lawyer, the clock still ticking on key DNA evidence in the investigation. But tonight, where is 3- year-old Caylee Anthony?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: After 37 days of being incarcerated at the Orange County jail, Casey Anthony released.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The money question...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And of course, silence. One of the things that we found out afterwards is the fact that Casey told her attorney, Jose Baez -- but nobody really heard it -- was the fact that, I`m innocent, I want to walk out of this jail with my head high.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, these aren`t words that any of us in the media heard. Apparently, she said these words to Jose Baez, her attorney.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY`S ATTORNEY: She stopped me and she told me in my ear she wanted me to take the umbrella down. She said to me, Jose, I`m innocent, I want to walk out of this place with my head high.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her daughter, Caylee, still missing, but Casey Anthony is out of jail, reporters staking out the family house today. But for what? Are we ever going to hear from Casey herself? Why didn`t she talk while she was locked up? Why would she talk now?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: Good evening. I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, the desperate search for a beautiful 3-year-old Florida girl named Caylee. Mom, Casey Anthony, walks free from jail. But what is she doing now to help in the search for little Caylee?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER OF MISSING TODDLER: There are certain things that the family can`t say. There`s certain things that we do know. There are certain things that Casey knows that she can`t tell. But you know, frankly, there`s not a whole lot of people that we trust. I trust Casey. I trust her attorney. I trust my son and I trust my husband and I trust God. That`s about the only people right now, the only things that I can have faith in.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nobody in the family or working, outside the police and the public, is pushing for the fact that, Hey, Casey, what we want is the truth from you. The grandparents should be fighting for the truth and the bounty hunter coming in should be fighting for the truth, which is, Casey, tell us the truth and stop obstructing justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your sister is being truthful?
LEE ANTHONY, UNCLE OF MISSING TODDLER: To the best of her ability right now, I do. Frankly, I wouldn`t still be here if I didn`t think that she was trying to cooperate with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You really believe that, George, with all the evidence that points to the counter?
GEORGE ANTHONY, GRANDFATHER OF MISSING TODDLER: The evidence that`s out there is circumstantial. Evidence (INAUDIBLE) out there is being drawn up in someone`s mind. Just because some things look like it`s going the one way, it could be going in a totally different way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a forensic case, and we`re all interested in truth and justice, and the way to do that is through science and technology. DNA is the gold standard and it will provide a great deal of information, and it may end up solving this case one way or the other.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People better know that we`re not giving up -- we`re not going to give up until the time that she`s home with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are hoping -- just like the Anthonys and the community, we are hoping that this child is alive, and we would love it if this child is alive and well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: And will Casey`s freedom shake loose the truth? Mark Williams, that`s the question, news director WNDB Newstalk 1150. We`re following her every breath or every move. What do we know?
MARK WILLIAMS, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, first off, she has spent her first day at home today. However, she didn`t spend much of that day at home. After spending 37 days in the Orange County jail, she finally went out to see her lawyer today at his office in nearby Kissimmee. She went to the office of Jose Baez about 10:00 o`clock this morning, leaving the house. She only had a six-hour visit because, of course, she has an ankle bracelet.
So around 4:00 o`clock, when she was supposed to be getting back to the house, they called her case manager and said, Hey, we`d really like to extend this a little bit, so they gave her until 5:15. And then as that time approached, they called once again. They said, We`d like to stay out until 6:15, 6:30. She got back to the house in east Orange County about 6:00 o`clock tonight.
Also, the family spokesperson or mouthpiece, as some people say, Larry Garrison, who is in Los Angeles, California, says she is now opening up to her parents, George and Cindy Anthony, since she`s not behind bars. He says she is speaking very freely, something she couldn`t do when she was in jail.
And also, no results yet back from the DNA that they sent off to the FDLE and the FBI. Even though they don`t have that back, their leads that the Orange County investigators are getting are going through the roof. They have something like 2,000 leads they`re working now. Just two weeks ago, they only had 1,300 leads. That means they`ve received 700 leads in the past two weeks or so, Pat.
LALAMA: Very interesting. Nikki Pierce, reporter, WDBO radio. The family spokesperson, Larry Garrison -- She`s talking freely, she`s sincerely worried, she`s being cooperative. What the heck does that mean?
NIKKI PIERCE, WDBO: Well, I`m not entirely sure what that means. You have obviously heard that she`s allegedly helping with the investigation, and so on, although Leonard Padilla had a little something different to say this morning to one of our reporters. He said that Casey is acting unconcerned, as one would if she knew that her daughter was with people that she knew.
LALAMA: Oh, go ahead. Go ahead.
PIERCE: That`s just a little bit of a contradiction.
LALAMA: Well, let`s just ask him. Leonard Padilla, our guest tonight once again. And thank you so much for your time. You want to clear that up, or is that exactly what you meant?
PADILLA: Yes. No, I`ve said it all along. What the media interprets as a woman that`s callous and doesn`t care, I believe, is a woman that knows her daughter is with people that she`s been with before. In other words, she`s not concerned about her safety in that regard. I could be wrong, but that`s the way I interpret it.
LALAMA: But Leonard, Leonard, so you`re thinking that maybe Casey`s thinking, Oh, she`s, you know, swimming in the swimming pool with somebody who has my kid and I`m really just not that worried about it, she`s having a good time?
PADILLA: No, no. What I`m saying is, I think she`s possibly with the -- OK, let`s say Zenaida, a lady that baby-sat the girl, the daughter, off and on for a year-and-a-half. If this lady participated in taking the baby, going back to the original statements she made to law enforcement, then maybe she feels that no harm will come to her, that the lady is just there pushing her for whatever, you know, maybe...
LALAMA: You`re a man of big faith, Leonard. I`ll get back to you in a minute.
Let`s take a caller. Carol in West Virginia. Hello, Carol.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Good evening, Pat. How are you?
LALAMA: I`m fine, thanks.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you for taking my call. I have two questions. The first one is, do we know if George Anthony is Casey Anthony`s biological or stepfather? And the second question is, considering that George Anthony was also one of the last people to see Caylee besides Casey, why hasn`t he followed in Marc Klaas`s footsteps and done a polygraph and submitted his DNA?
LALAMA: All right, Mark Williams, what do we know about George Anthony? My understanding has always been that he was the biological father, but I don`t know any other information.
WILLIAMS: We have no reason to believe, Pat, that he`s not the biological father. He`s 56 years of age. Cindy Anthony, his wife, is 50 years of age. And as far as we know, they`ve been married since -- for at least the past 22 years, moving from Ohio to Orlando in 1989. Casey was 3 years of age. And there`s no reason to believe that he is not the biological father.
LALAMA: Let`s ask Robert Dick, who works with Leonard. And you are the licensed private investigator. You are providing the security. I mean, have the parents said to you, We`d like to spearhead some search, can you help us get involved? And you know, as Marc Klaas did, as John Walsh has done, is the father involved in an active search for his granddaughter?
ROBERT DICK, PROVIDING SECURITY FOR ANTHONY FAMILY: Yes, as far as I know, the father has never stopped the search and trying to get the word out. In fact, I believe this weekend, he`s participating in a missing children`s event. I mean, he`s still trying to stay out there and keep following up the leads.
LALAMA: All right. You know, I want to ask Donald Schweitzer, my good buddy, former detective from Santa Ana PD. How are you doing tonight?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: Great, Pat.
LALAMA: Got a question for you. As a detective -- and everyone is talking about how she`s speaking freely, saying things she couldn`t say in jail. Well, I thought the terms of her confinement at home were that she can`t talk to anybody about this case. And my next question is, if she says anything revealing, is it incumbent upon the parents to call the cops? What happens in a situation like that?
SCHWEITZER: Well, if she says something revealing and she says it to her parents, I don`t think that the parents really are going to face any liability if they don`t pass it on. But I don`t understand the other question with regard to her being told that she can`t talk about the case. It would seem to me that she`s still free to talk to the police. She can invite the police into her home and she could just lay it all out again. The problem is that she`s got an attorney, and the attorney is blocking that.
LALAMA: Interesting. Tom McClintock, forensic DNA analyst and author of "Forensic DNA Analysis," I would be concerned, if I were the state, that if there was any evidence at all in that house, it`s going to be gone now, if she`s liable for anything.
TOM MCCLINTOCK, FORENSIC DNA EXPERT: Well, the samples are available, and over time there could be some degradation. But inside a house, there`s not going to be very many environmental factors that are going to cause those samples to be degraded or not available to render a DNA profile.
LALAMA: So what I`m saying is, if she`s involved -- and let`s keep in mind she`s only been charged with child neglect. She`s not been charged with anything greater than that, although that`s bad enough. But I mean, if she was to be involved in her daughter`s disappearance, maybe there are things in that house that would be telling and helpful in the investigation.
MCCLINTOCK: Absolutely. And we know that the mother and child`s DNA is going to be all over the house. That`s not uncommon. That`s going to happen in your house and my house.
MCCLINTOCK: But I think what`s very, very important is that we establish the DNA profile of not only the mom, but Caylee. And once that profile is established, we have something to compare it to. That something being some evidentiary samples that are collected outside of the home.
LALAMA: Peter Schaffer, defense attorney, put yourself in Mr. Baez`s shoes. He`s spending long hours with her now. Are they simply working on the child neglect case, or in his mind, is he trying to get her to give up some information about Caylee?
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: You know, I have no idea what they`re doing. Mr. Baez seems to me to have been way too open with the press from day one on this case. Once you get hired on a case like this, your job is to insulate your client and shut down anything that comes from her mouth because she`s charged with a crime. She`s suspected of being involved in much more serious criminal activity, I believe. And it`s not her duty -- or his duty as a defense lawyer to assist the police. It`s his job to protect her.
LALAMA: You know, Alex Sanchez, defense attorney also, I find it quite interesting that you have a situation where you have a bounty hunter -- I read an interesting quote today. Somebody said bounty hunters are supposed to bring people in, you know, he`s helped to let her out. It seems to be kind of a conflict of interest. I`m not sure who`s really helping who here because, you know, it`s a little confusing.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes. I think, you know, Mr. Padilla`s motivations in this case are open to question. You know, this case has the -- the fact that she`s now released has all the ingredients of a major meltdown, Pat, because now that she`s released and she`s going home, the family is going to pile on her and want to know what happened to that kid. The investigator`s going to want to know what happened to that kid. And I`d say in about five to ten days from now, something dramatic is going to happen, and it`s not going to be positive.
LALAMA: Very interesting. Jeff Gardere, psychologist and author of "Love Prescription," my feeling is that it`s got to be so tense inside that house. I know her parents profess absolute support for their daughter. And bless them for that. It is their daughter. But you know, after a while, just the little bit I know about Casey, I think she`s going to get annoyed by being questioned by people.
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, absolutely. I think at this point, the parents probably have a hands-off policy. They`re just letting her relax. They`re just letting just her chill for the moment. But eventually, they are going to start questioning her. They`re going to start asking her what is going on, where the child is. At this point, I just think it`s just going to get worse and worse for her. The pressure will pile on.
LALAMA: Yes. She might even wish she was back in jail. Let`s take another caller. Wendy in Kansas. Hello, Wendy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Pat. How are you?
LALAMA: I`m well, thank you. Your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was curious if anyone knows where Casey was spending her days for the last two years, since it turns out she was fired from Universal.
LALAMA: You know, I was asking the same question today. Nikki Pierce, it`s so interesting how she`s been able to say, I`m going to work, Dad, Hey, Mom, I got a job at Universal. And you know, how do you not know that your daughter really isn`t working, and where is she all this time?
PIERCE: Well, there`s really no word on where she is. I can imagine that the mother and father wouldn`t have any reason to disbelieve, or perhaps they were in denial. I don`t really know that part. But I do know that over the month or so where police are tracking her movements, she had been staying off and on with her boyfriend, which she was also lying to her boyfriend and saying she was going to work. So during those times, it`s still a big mystery.
LALAMA: You know, Mark Williams, that to me is a big part of this, is where she -- can she account for every day that she was gone, doing whatever it was she was doing? We don`t seem to have that information. Do the cops? Do we have any idea if she can say, This is where I was every single day?
WILLIAMS: Not that we know of. And you know she has this web of lies, so nobody knows if she`s ever telling the truth. We have no idea where she was during those 30 days. She says she was out looking for Caylee. Well, I mean, that`s the O.J. Simpson thing. O.J.`s still looking for the killer of Nicole Brown Simpson. It`s the same scenario. So we have no idea where she was.
LALAMA: Leonard Padilla, is she permitted to have friends come over? Can they come visit her?
PADILLA: Nobody has really mentioned that in front of me, so I`m not sure. But let me bring up something here that`s important. There`s a reward out there for the return of the child, $225,000. I would hope that some focus by the media would be given to that so that somebody out there hears about this and brings her in or deposits her at a drugstore and calls for the reward. That is very important.
LALAMA: Do you get any of that kind of information, Robert Dick? Do you have any -- do people call you with tips and clues and say, you know, Go check this out?
DICK: We are constantly getting e-mails, phone calls, theories, tips, anything. And we`re just trying to get it all together and -- so that it can be presented.
LALAMA: Are you actively searching right now for Caylee? But your main concern is protecting that perimeter where the Anthonys live.
DICK: At this point, it`s just about protecting the Anthonys with the threats and stuff that`s going on. We don`t want to interfere in the law enforcement.
LALAMA: OK. Thanks.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: What`s her reaction to being home?
WILLIAMS: She`s very happy. There were a lot of tears, a lot of emotion. And you know, we think we`re one step closer, and we`re very happy about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe that she made a mistake.
CINDY ANTHONY: My daughter may have some mis-truths out there, or half-truths, but she`s not a murderer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe that the daughter is alive.
CINDY ANTHONY: I will walk every inch of this earth and open every door and knock on every door, and I will look in every nook and cranny until I find her!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you still estimate it will take you a week to get her back?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A week from today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. You know, the other big question is where the heck are the DNA results? A lot of people say, Oh, that`s bad for the state. But Donald Schweitzer, former detective, Santa Ana PD, I don`t think that`s bad for the state. There`s three different laboratories looking at this stuff. They may just want to make sure they got their T`s crossed, correct?
SCHWEITZER: Pat, I think they -- you remember from some of the big trials out here in LA that the crime labs will take their time in getting the results because later on...
SCHWEITZER: ... that`s maybe all the defense has to attack. So it doesn`t mean anything.
LALAMA: I agree. Tom McClintock, what do you think about that? I mean, I say take as long as you want, just get it right.
MCCLINTOCK: Absolutely. There`s a lot of factors that come into play when one thinks about how fast the DNA analysis can be performed. It could be the number of cases that the laboratory is working on. No doubt, this case has surfaced to the top in terms of priority, but there`s other factors that come into play. There could be a mixture, a sample that contains more than one DNA sample. It could be a sample that contains a very, very low level of DNA. So just the interpretation is very, very difficult.
LALAMA: Interesting. Let`s take another caller. Martin in Toronto. Good evening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good evening. I have a question and a theory. My question is, there`s so much mystery about the father of this little girl, can the police go back three years to investigate and talk to all her friends to find out what they`ve told her who the father was?
LALAMA: Interesting, Peter Schaffer, defense -- oh, I`m sorry, go ahead. Go ahead and finish and we`ll take the...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The theory is, I believe the way she`s acting about her child and distancing herself from the child that maybe the father is someone in the family or a close friend.
LALAMA: Interesting. Peter Schaffer, defense attorney, would they be able to go back and figure out that kind of information?
SCHAFFER: Well, I mean, certainly, police can interview whoever they want. You know, whether that -- I would have hoped they would have done that, I mean, in the time that they`ve been investigating this case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you folks understand that her mother is probably the one person in the world that has more influence on her (INAUDIBLE) her granddaughter than anybody else?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why hasn`t she spoken yet? Why hasn`t...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because everything`s monitored at the jail.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY: I`ve never seen her be a bad mom. She`s -- she loves her daughter. I don`t doubt that. Casey has been a very wonderful, caring mother.
I know she`s given as many leads that she can to us without jeopardizing Caylee`s safety. So you know, if she knew where Caylee was at, it would be easy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama, in for Nancy Grace. You know, I remember during my time at "America`s Most Wanted," you`d agonize because there were so many families you couldn`t help with media exposure. I mean, there are just so many grieving families. And that leads me to this. Florida Department of Law Enforcement documented 51,000 cases involving missing children last year.
Jeff Gardere, psychologist, why do we care so much about this one?
GARDERE: We care about this one because this is a beautiful young girl. She comes from a middle class family. And you would think, unlike many of the families where people don`t have money, where they`re lower middle class, where they`re used to these sorts of situations, where there were neglect -- these people have all the resources. This is such an anomaly. That`s why people care about this one. But Pat, as you know, they should care about all of them.
LALAMA: Well, that`s what I`m saying. I mean, what`s -- I -- I mean, it`s heartbreaking when you look at that little girl`s picture. But you know, what determines that we choose this case over the case three doors down, where someone`s been grieving for a couple of years?
GARDERE: Well, I think it`s the uncertainty, the unknown, that there is some knowledge that perhaps this young girl, the mother, knows what`s going on and she`s not giving us the information. And that`s what`s making this so crazy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If law enforcement had any kind of evidence against her for manslaughter, murder, whatever, she`d be charged with it.
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER, AUTHOR OF "KILLING FOR SPORT": I think it`s interesting if we look back at Casey`s statement in the jail where she said, I have to maintain my composure to talk to the police.
CHRISTINE, CASEY ANTHONY`S FRIEND: How come everybody`s saying that you`re not upset, that you`re not crying, that you show no caring of where Caylee is at all?
CASEY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF MISSING CAYLEE: Because I`m not sitting here (EXPLETIVE DELETED) crying every two seconds because I have to stay composed to talk to detectives.
BROWN: That is the only true thing she says because she could cry all she wants and fall apart in front of the police if she were telling the truth.
C. ANTHONY: I can`t be sitting here crying every two seconds like I want to. I can`t.
BROWN: But you do have to maintain your composure if you want to keep up those lies and not get convicted of anything. So when she gets out, Mr. Padilla, she`s going to keep up that same composure with you because you know darn well that she`s not going to tell you anything.
PAT LALAMA, GUEST HOST: Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
On that note, Mr. Padilla, has she spoken to you? Has Casey said, hey gee, thanks, for getting me out? What kind of contact have you had with her?
LEONARD PADILLA, BOUNTY HUNTER, BAILED OUT CASEY ANTHONY OUT OF JAIL: That`s basically the extent of it when we were riding back from the jail.
LALAMA: Do you get the impression that she wants to buddy up and have a conversation?
PADILLA: I haven`t talked to her or seen her. I mean I only saw her for a -- on the way home, 10 minutes -- two minutes at the max, and I haven`t seen her today.
LALAMA: Robert Dick, have you seen her?
ROBERT DICK, PROVIDING SECURITY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: Just as far as in movement, getting her to and from the attorney and stuff but no real contact.
LALAMA: You`ve made a couple of comments about the threats you get. What do people -- are they angry with her? Who are the threats directed toward and what do they want to do?
DICK: They -- I mean, we received as high as death threats as far as if she ever got out with her, her family, as well as us.
LALAMA: And Leonard, based on that, don`t you think she`d be better off somewhere where no one can find her?
PADILLA: No, no. You know, let me tell you about those death threats and that stuff. They want to bring it on, bring it on. The thing about it is, they`re stupid for making those threats because if you track them back, they`re going to go to jail for that kind of stuff.
LALAMA: Yes, but it`s still a precarious, you know, situation.
PADILLA: Well, of course it is.
PADILLA: Of course it is, but it could be anywhere. The media can find out anything they want. Any time you move somebody they`re going to find it out again. We`re just thinking that that`s the safest place. That`s the comfortable place. It`s a comfort zone.
And as far as all these people that say she ain`t going to talk, I just don`t know where they`ve been living, you know? Or what kind of work they`ve done.
PADILLA: They obviously don`t know this business.
LALAMA: Time will tell.
Jean from Maryland, hello, Jean, your question. Do I have Jean? OK.
Do I have Karl from Canada?
KARL, CANADIAN RESIDENT: Yes, you do.
LALAMA: Hi there. What`s your question?
KARL: My question is, I think she sold the child. The people are afraid to come forward with the child. They`ll go to jail. And from their pictures at the party she looks like a sociopath to me.
LALAMA: Alex Sanchez, response that she may have sold the child and that she`s a sociopath or psychopath, I forgot, I didn`t hear the word.
ALEX SANCHEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, you know, whether or not she`s a sociopath or psychopath, I mean I`ll leave that up to the Jeff Garderes of the world. He`s more of an expert about that than I am.
But you know that`s as legitimate a theory as any other theory.
LALAMA: That she sold her child?
SANCHEZ: That`s -- I mean who knows.
LALAMA: What`s legit about that?
SANCHEZ: I hope she did not. But if she did, at least, there`s a chance this -- that kid could be brought back home.
You know I want to ask Tom McClintock, who is a forensic DNA analyst. We know as we mentioned there are about three dozen samples at three different labs and it takes some time to get this stuff done.
A lot of people have been asking me what`s the most significance. Is it true, for example, that the hair strands from the trunk that could belong to the child could be incredibly significant because it could tell you whether the child was living or deceased when they were extracted?
TOM MCCLINTOCK, FORENSIC DNA EXPERT, AUTHOR OF "FORENSIC DNA ANALYSIS": Well, I think all of the samples are going to be critical for this case. The hair sample, obviously, will give us some information that may be able -- or allow us to identify that profile and match it to Caylee.
The other samples that are being analyzed could also generate a profile that we could match to Caylee. What hasn`t been brought up, though, is a known reference sample. How do we compare all of these samples to Caylee without a known sample?
And the only thing that we could do -- and hopefully during the investigation those samples were collected -- are the toothbrush, the hair brush from Caylee`s home. That would give us the closest reference sample, a known DNA profile of Caylee, that we can compare it to.
LALAMA: So without a good sample from Caylee, we could be in trouble, essentially?
MCCLINTOCK: Not necessarily directly from Caylee but any of the objects that she has had direct contact with such as a toothbrush or a hair brush.
LALAMA: I believe they did get a toothbrush. So -- at least they`re in good shape there. You know -- and the next order of business now, of course, are these child neglect charges.
And perhaps Peter Schaffer, you can explain to us what do you have to do to prove child neglect? I mean you look at the pictures, now pictures don`t tell the real story I know. But you look at those pictures of her with her daughter. She has no previous record. There hasn`t been child services investigations in the past.
You know how does the state prove that she was negligent?
PETER SCHAFFER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, if they were to do that, they would have to show that, you know, by losing this child, essentially, that her care or lack of care and lack of supervision over a young child that she has a duty to care for would rise to the level of child neglect.
I never think there`s going to be a child neglect case. I think those are just charges that they`ve brought to hold her, to have jurisdiction over her, and they`re conducting the investigation of a much more serious case.
LALAMA: Well, but wait a minute. I mean, her child is gone. She`s dancing and lying. Sounds to me like there`s a pretty decent child neglect case somewhere in there.
SCHAFFER: Absolutely. But if all she ends up with is a conviction for child neglect, she`s pretty lucky. I think that there are significant facts here that are very, very troublesome for me.
They would be, if I were the criminal defense attorney, the fact that this child is missing for nine weeks, the fact that when the parents call the police, they said their car smelled like a dead body, the fact that a cadaver dog hit on that body.
I`m not worried about child neglect. I`m worried about, you know, a capital murder case possibly in the future.
LALAMA: Donald Schweitzer, a neglect case? Do you see it?
DONALD SCHWEITZER, FORMER DETECTIVE, SANTA ANA PD: I think there`s overwhelming evidence of neglect. I mean, once your child misses -- I mean if she`s missing for eight hours, you`re going to call the police and any jury is going to think that, you know, that`s what they had the duty to do.
It`s overwhelming. But I disagree with the idea that -- you know, that people are saying that she`s protecting, you know, herself, you know, in a legitimate way. Those charges are minor. You know, go ahead, roll over on those charges. But cooperate with the police. Even if it means that you are negligent, cooperate with the police. Lead them to the evidence.
LALAMA: You know, I`ll ask Peter Schaffer this question. Let me say this. The media attention is huge. The city of Orlando has been saturated. I know, you know, for a juror it`s about whether you can separate the coverage. But would this be a case where the defense would say get me out of the town on this one?
SCHAFFER: Absolutely. There`s no way she can get a fair trial in the Orlando area. However, this has become a national case. So the prosecution would say is there`s coverage everywhere.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: I believe she was in love with somebody. She got herself head over heels. She got herself misled and misplayed and the next thing it was totally out of control, then she started lying to law enforcement, then she got arrested. And look at it, it snowballed inside of -- what was it -- four weeks and it snowballed out of control.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PADILLA: I find is hard to believe that a mother of a 3-year-old child would harm her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, come on.
PADILLA: No, no, listen to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re a bounty hunter. You`ve never heard of mother`s harming their children.
PADILLA: Yes, yes, yes, yes, but I still don`t want to believe that.
C. ANTHONY: I know mom will understand this better than anyone, that there`s that type of bond that you have with your kid.
LEE ANTHONY, BROTHER OF CASEY: Right.
C. ANTHONY: And it`s -- you know it`s unexplainable.
CINDY ANTHONY, GRANDMOTHER: You know that gut feeling that made me call for help.
We`re talking about a 3-year-old little girl. My daughter finally admitted that the babysitter stole her. I need to find her.
It`s the same gut feeling that I know she`s out there. And that`s why I keep calling for help from the public.
C. ANTHONY: In my gut she`s still OK. And it still feels like she`s -- she`s close to home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is the child we`re trying to find and we are again hopeful and prayerful that we`re going to find Caylee.
LALAMA: I`m Pat Lalama in for Nancy Grace.
OK. So let`s just review. The family spokesperson who is 3,000 miles away in California says, oh, Caylee -- excuse me, Casey is speaking freely and she`s offering up information she couldn`t do from jail.
Now, let me ask Donald Schweitzer, former detective, Santa Ana PD, based on those comments, could the state say, hmm, we better be subpoenaing the parents in?
SCHWEITZER: Yes, I think that they can do a grand jury investigation. There`s a lot of ways they could get to the parents. But, you know, the parents are still going to lie.
In this case, I think what`s interesting is you know that those parents love their grandchild, but they also love their daughter and that`s what makes this case very interesting and puzzling.
LALAMA: Absolutely. That`s something to ask Jeff Gardere, psychologist. I can`t imagine what it must be like for those parents because they`ve got this granddaughter they love. They want to you know -- and you can`t deny that somewhere in their heads there must be some suspicion.
Yet, this is their daughter they want to support. And in the meantime where is this little child? I mean shouldn`t they be out there canvassing the neighborhood? What kind of a horrendous situation is this?
JEFF GARDERE, PSYCHOLOGIST, AUTHOR OF "LOVE PRESCRIPTION": This is absolutely maddening for them because these parents have told us that, yes, they know that their daughter has been called a pathological liar. They know that their daughter has some emotional issues.
But she`s still her daughter. They love their granddaughter but they love their daughter, too, and they want to hope against hope that she`s not responsible for the disappearance but you can only be in denial for so long especially if she is involved.
LALAMA: Interesting. Let`s take another caller. I believe we have Nicole in Arizona.
NICOLE, ARIZONA RESIDENT: Hi.
LALAMA: Hi. Your question.
NICOLE: To my knowledge, the mom says that the nanny was the last person that was seen with Caylee. What I`d like to know is why is the family not made an attempt to put either existing photographs or sketches out of this woman.
LALAMA: Of the nanny?
LALAMA: You know, Mark Williams, I think the interesting thing about this nanny is that no one`s ever seen her, correct?
MARK WILLIAMS, NEWS DIRECTOR, WNDB NEWSTALK 1150: Well, allegedly. But, of course, you know, there`s been a local television station here in the Orlando area that tracked down the alleged nanny and they showed her pictures and she didn`t recognize either Caylee or Casey.
So, you know, this is apparently another fabrication. We don`t know where she was dropping the kid of when she was going to -- allegedly going to work. But the person that they contacted said, I`ve never -- I don`t know this person whatsoever.
LALAMA: Right. So there is a woman by that name, right?
LALAMA: Nikki Pierce, also? I mean you concur with your colleague Mark Williams? There was this woman who said, yes, that was me who went to that apartment complex, yet I`ve never seen Casey or Caylee.
NIKKI PIERCE, REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: Right. There are actually about 1,000 people with that name. But the one in particular that did go to that apartment complex was interviewed by police several times and also by the media and was shown pictures of Caylee and Casey and didn`t recognize them, and vice versa. Casey was shown a picture of this woman and said, I don`t know her.
Tom McClintock, forensic analyst, you know, what is -- is there an average time it takes to bring back evidence? Everyone keeps talking, oh, like we mentioned before, it`s taking so long. But what`s average?
MCCLINTOCK: Under normal conditions, about three to four weeks for a complete DNA profile to be generated. Under these circumstances, I would think one to two weeks, assuming that the sample is not compromised.
A complete DNA profile can be generated and it shouldn`t really take much longer than that.
LALAMA: Alex Sanchez, people say, oh, gee, the state has got nothing. I know you`re a defense attorney, but it would be in your favor to believe they have nothing. Are you convinced they have nothing?
SANCHEZ: No, I`m not convinced. As a matter of fact I said all along that I think the police know the results of that DNA test.
SANCHEZ: And I believe that that information would probably implicate Casey. But the police are not revealing it because if they do, they realize that Baez will tell the client we`re not cooperating under any circumstances whatsoever. So they`re leaving that door open.
LALAMA: Peter Schaffer, what do you think about that?
SCHAFFER: I agree with Alex 100 percent. You know the FBI doesn`t tell you what evidence they have. You have to drag it out of them years later. So.
LALAMA: Years later?
SCHAFFER: The Florida Bureau of Investigation is not going to tell you. They have this information. They`re making a case, whatever that case may be.
LALAMA: Well, and Mark Williams, from a reporter`s perspective, they have no obligation to tell us, right?
WILLIAMS: No. They have none whatsoever, Pat. And here`s the deal, is there`s still an internal struggle inside the sheriff`s office as to what they plan to release or if they`re going to keep it close to the vest.
They don`t have to reveal it until, you know, a grand jury goes to -- a grand jury is called in this case and some of the evidence goes there so they can write a true bill on this. I mean, you know -- and I agree with some of your guests. I -- some people say they have it other people say they don`t. So who knows?
LALAMA: Leonard Padilla, I asked you before earlier this week. I`m going to ask you again.
Should Casey Anthony submit to a polygraph?
PADILLA: Here`s what some attorneys do -- defense attorneys. They submit their client to a polygraph test in their office with just the attorney, their client.
LALAMA: Right. And if it doesn`t come out well, they don`t it.
PADILLA: They don`t publish it.
LALAMA: Yes. I know that. I`m asking you if you have so much faith in Casey Anthony that she didn`t do anything wrong.
PADILLA: Oh I would -- yes, I would definitely. Yes, yes.
LALAMA: . to her child would you suggest to the world`s greatest polygraph examiner give her a lie detector test.
PADILLA: We know who the world`s greatest polygraph examiner is and I say yes. Fact is, you ought to call him and get him up here and have him go talk to that attorney. You ought to broker the deal.
LALAMA: OK. Well, all right, that`s something to think about.
Robert Dick, what will you and your partners do to find this child?
DICK: We will continue to keep her safe so that she can reveal the details that solves this thing.
LALAMA: How easy is that going to be? Rhetorical question clearly.
DICK: Already happening I think.
LALAMA: Well, I hope you do. I hope you are successful from the bottom of my heart.
Tonight, CNN "HEROES."
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN "HEROES."
DAVID PUCKETT, MEDICAL MARVEL: Here in southeastern Mexico where medical care is poor, it`s almost impossible to overcome an amputation. They don`t have the opportunity to get out, much less get accepted.
The very first time I came to Mexico, it was stamped on my heart -- someday you`re going to make a difference here. And when I finally got into the field of orthotics and prosthetics, I said, aha, now I know what I can do.
I`m David Puckett and I bring artificial limbs and orthopedic braces for those in need to Mexico.
There`s always a plethora of donations of artificial limbs and orthopedic braces. We take casts in southeastern Mexico and make new limbs and braces from the components that we recycle.
Delivering a limb or brace is still the beginning because we have to come back to make sure that they have what they need. When we help one person, it actually affects an entire community.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (Through translator): My life was sad before because I had to crawl on the ground. He lifted me up to where I am today.
PUCKETT: I didn`t really realize how much sacrifice this is going to be. But you know what? Where there`s more sacrifice, there`s more blessings.
ANNOUNCER: Get involved. CNN.com/heroes.
LALAMA: And now a look back at the stories making the rest of the headlines this week.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Just moments ago, Tampa bail bondsman Tony Estes posting $50,000 bond, that`s 10 percent of the $500,000 bond that Casey Anthony is being held on in the Orange County Jail. She could be out of jail as early as 8:30 tomorrow morning.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey, did you kill Caylee?
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: Casey Anthony has been released on bond. We saw Casey Anthony and her attorney, Jose Baez, walking straight out here from the Orange County Jail through a throng of media.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you guys. Let her through.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They got in a waiting black SUV. We can tell you there was a little scuffle that ensued between Jose Baez and some of the media as Casey -- as she was walking Casey to the car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get away. Get away.
DICK: Well, the main focus is just keeping the house and the family safe. There`s just been too many credible threats against the family, Casey, as well as us, and we just don`t want anything to happen to anybody right now.
PADILLA: A month is jail is like two years on an island. It`s horrible.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: So when she gets out, what happens?
PADILLA: She goes home.
UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: She eats hamburgers and French fries, she loosens up?
PADILLA: Takes a hot shower, does her hair, paints her nails, heck, feel like a human again.
I find it hard to believe that a mother of a 3-year-old child would harm her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh come on.
PADILLA: No, no, listen to me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re a bounty hunter. You`ve never heard of a mother harming their children?
PADILLA: Yes, yes, yes. But I still want to believe that.
LALAMA: Tonight, let`s stop to remember Marine Lieutenant Colonel William Hall, 38, from Seattle, Washington, killed in Iraq on a third tour of duty. He`s one of the highest ranking U.S. military officers killed in the war. A Washington State University grad, he also earned a masters from the University of Phoenix.
Remembered for his devotion and giving sound advice. Leaves behind mom, Mildred, two sisters, grieving widow, (INAUDIBLE), and four children.
William Hall, a true American hero.
Thank you to all of our guests and to you at home for being with us.
Thank you, Nancy, for the opportunity.
Tonight, a special happy birthday to one of our stars here, Audrey.
Happy birthday, Audrey. I love you.
See you tomorrow night, 8:00 p.m. Eastern and until then, have a great evening.