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NANCY GRACE

Texas Authorities Raid Eldorado Polygamist Compound

Aired May 26, 2008 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: A single desperate and secret phone call brings down the biggest child protective bust in U.S. history, 462 children, 100 women literally hauled off by the busload from behind the walls of a remote, isolated Texas compound, this after reports of systematic marriage and childbirth forced on girls as young as 13.
Then allegations of physical and sex abuse of little boys on that compound, plus 41 known children with broken bones, CPS taking all 400-plus children into custody, a crime lab on wheels DNA-testing every child placed in foster care across Texas. While other jurisdictions turn a blind eye to the alleged rampant child abuse behind the walls of these gated compounds, the Lone Star State heads to legal battle.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do not know where my children are, but there is four children out there of mine and I intend to get them before this is over, and a daughter and my grandson that I intend for them to come back to the ranch. My name is Kathleen (ph) Jessop, and I stand for freedom. While we were over there, it felt like that in the land of the free and the home of the brave, we were the Jews taken to the concentration camps, persecuted for our religion.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help us get our children back. We need our children.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us. Right now, straight out to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Michael, what`s the latest?

MICHAEL BOARD, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Well, these individual custody hearings began last week. They`re going to continue again this week. Each child and the lawyers for the parents will get to go before a judge in San Angelo and plead their case. Basically, what it is, is they`re getting a service plan, a blueprint for them to get their kids back. And CPS says, yes, their goal is to reunite as many of these kids with their parents as possible, as long as the parents give them a clean and abuse-free place to live.

GRACE: Most disturbing to me, Michael Board, is that right now, there are about 100 children who have not been matched up with any parents. What about them?

BOARD: Yes, even more disturbing is that there`s some people here who the mom will show up and the father will not. We`ve talked about this a lot, Nancy. A lot of the fathers are not showing up for DNA testing and they`re not showing up for these trials, either. To give you an example, there was a 17-year-old mom who went before a judge last week. Her husband, her "spiritual husband" or her regular husband, it didn`t matter, any man was not there. She`s 17. She has a 1-year-old child. Do the math, Nancy. It makes sense that she conceived that child when she was 15 years old. Also, she`s pregnant with another child. It`s going to be a long road for her to get either of those kids back.

GRACE: Michael, bottom line, will these women have to actually separate from their religion, their so-called religion, and their husbands to get their kids back? Because like you just said, we see the 17-year-old showing up in court without the father.

BOARD: Well, in the service plans that were given to each of the parents, it says nothing in there about religion. It does not say specifically, You must give up your religion in order to get your kids back. But what it does say is, You need to provide a house that is free from abuse. It`s hard to believe that any judge will give a child back to a mother if they`re still living in the same house on this compound with one husband, nine wives and 30-something kids. I don`t know about you, but that does not sound like a house free from abuse.

GRACE: You know -- back to Mike Brooks, former fed with the FBI. Mike, I`ve got a question. It seems me that it would be very possible for the judge to impose this service plan on these moms. Dads are all the no- shows. But the minute they get the kids, how can we ensure that they`re going to, A, stay in the jurisdiction to be monitored, and B, adhere to the service plan?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: We can`t guarantee that at all, Nancy, because they`ve been deceptive the whole time. The fathers back at the compound have been telling the mothers what to say, what to tell the kids. They`ve been coaching the kids. It`s -- you got to get the kids out of that whole environment. You know, you talk about a home free of abuse -- we`re talking physical abuse and mental abuse, Nancy.

GRACE: A big issue -- out to defense attorney Ray Giudice joining us from the Atlanta jurisdiction. Raymond, right now, this has all been about CPS, Child Protective Services. But all of the DNA tests and what they are learning from these interviews from these children, I predict will be brought into evidence at criminal trials. Is that possible?

RAY GIUDICE, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, absolutely. I mean, those tests - - there`s a good search warrant that we`ve discussed on our previous shows that it was founded on good-faith basis. The continued search -- they`re finding records and documents that clearly indicate a pattern of deception and almost a scheme or a plan to prevent the state from enforcing the polygamy laws and the child abuse laws.

So I mean, I give this judge a lot of -- these judges a lot of credit. This is a major problem. You`ve got people lying and maybe even lying under oath in court, and they`ve got to do something to get to the bottom. At the end of the day, this is about protecting the young children and protecting these very young women from further abuse.

GRACE: Well, one issue, and a harbinger, so to speak, that we saw last week is that the Texas attorney general has now been given authority, actually ordered by the judge, to handle any future -- any possible criminal prosecutions. It was just overwhelming the local district attorney`s office. Now, it seems to me that they are paving the way for a criminal prosecution. And if so, Ray Giudice, what will the charges be?

GIUDICE: Well, the major charges that I would be concerned about if I was one of these gentleman would be statutory rape, child abuse. Those are the ones that can put you away for the rest of your life. We`ve talked on earlier shows about the Welfare fraud issues and maybe the child labor law violations, and they`re obviously serious, but they`re de minimus compared to consent -- lack of incent (ph) for statutory rape. There is no consent to rape if you`re under the age of consent. And as the reporter just stated, when you clock these women`s birth dates back from their conception dates of these young children, that`s going to be exhibit A for the statutory rape, child molestation charges.

GRACE: With me tonight, Dr. Patricia Saunders. Dr. Saunders, we`ve seen so many interviews with the women of the FLDS, and we`ve heard that they`re brainwashed. But I notice that they are very articulate. They are very cohesive when they speak. And they always manage to have a response, and at the same time, dodge all questions about their ages, their last names, how old they were when they married and gave birth, whether there are underage "spiritual marriages" behind compound walls. To me, they`re crazy like a fox.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Exactly, Nancy. This is what we see with coercive persuasion. I`d rather use that term than brain- washing because we`re not -- they`re not torturing them. They`re totally controlling their environment, and they`re indoctrinated into a belief system by charismatic leaders who offer salvation. They tell them what to think, how to think, when to think it. They dismiss any kind of critical thinking or questions, and these women experience a sense of safety and security in being the same, in being sweet little girls with prairie dresses.

GRACE: I want to go to Dr. Marty Makary from Johns Hopkins University. Dr. Makary, the charges or the allegations -- there are no criminal charges yet, anyway -- that little boys have been abused, as well, on that compound, physically and sexually -- it`s my understanding that this is based on journals, writings, and interviews with the little boys now in state custody. How can that be corroborated physically?

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: Well, investigators are going to look for any signs of injury in the private parts of these children. They`re going to have to be subjected to clinical examinations that could be humiliating. They`ll be looking for scars, injuries, any sign of trauma. And the DNA is going to say a lot because if the mother`s 25 and the kid is 12 years old, at guess what age she got conceived? So it`s going to tell us a lot more.

GRACE: So are you referring to, like, a pelvic exam for women, and essentially the equivalent for men?

MAKARY: Essentially, sort of what we call an external rectal exam. You look at the perineum or bottom side and you look for any signs of injury, which, unfortunately, when you look at these, they`re painful to look at because you know the harm and pain that is incurred when this actually happened.

GRACE: Well, you know, alert for you, Dr. Makary. Women have been enduring pelvic examinations for many, many hundreds of years, so I think the guys will get through it OK.

I want to go back out to Mike Brooks. Mike Brooks, regarding these "bishop`s papers," these so-called "bishop`s papers," that seemingly document as many wives as up to 21 for certain people -- will that come into evidence? And how can we ensure its veracity, the truth of the papers?

BROOKS: Well, Nancy, I thought when I first heard about this -- when I first heard about it, I thought it was a treasure trove, you know, almost a jackpot when it comes to evidence because it`s in the writing. It`s in the writing of -- the handwriting of the different people -- men who have all the wives and children. And in fact, it even has some of the wives at 16.

But yes, it should come into court as evidence, but it could be dated. So then you have to go back and part (ph) of the interviews, even with these children -- and keep in mind, Nancy, back a while ago, when we first started talking about this, there were six women who they put in a safe house. They could be a -- could play a pivotal role as witnesses against the people in the compound, against these men, for statutory rape and these kind of charges. But the information (INAUDIBLE) because, Nancy, they`re a very, very closed society. But if you get these six women to open up and say, Yes, I know these people, I know this family, know this family, yes, this is all true, it could be a treasure trove leading to a conviction.

GRACE: Back to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Michael, another issue that`s going to be a real speed bump, if not a roadblock, for any kind of criminal prosecution is how this whole thing started, the genesis of the raid, that single cell phone call from seemingly a desperate young girl who had been forced into some arranged marriage. It looks like it was a hoax, all right? What can you tell me about that?

BOARD: Yes, apparently, it was a hoax because the woman who they were searching for apparently has not shown up in court yet, and they don`t expect her to show up. I talked to the Department of Public Safety here in Texas. They say all charges have been dropped in this investigation.

If you remember, when this whole even started, it was a call from a 16-year-old named Sarah (ph) to a child abuse hotline in San Angelo, Texas, saying that she was raped by her "spiritual husband." They interviewed that "spiritual husband." All charges have been dropped against her. They believe that this hoax phone call was made by a woman in Colorado Springs, Colorado. They`ve traced -- apparently, have traced it back to her.

But remember, that could come into play with the criminal charges. With the child welfare cases, you don`t need Sarah there because it was when they got onto this compound that they found out that they were young women that were either pregnant or already had kids. And once they saw that, that was enough burden in the state of Texas to remove the kids and place them in temporary custody.

GRACE: And the whole theory behind that, Ray Giudice, is if the police are rightfully there -- in other words, that they believed that original call, even if it turns out to be a hoax -- and they are rightfully within the compound laws and they see evidence of wrongdoing, that will hold up in court.

GIUDICE: That`s right. Now, first of all, it`s going to be challenged by the defense lawyers. That`s their job, and they need to test it constitutionally. But the Supreme Court has ruled if law enforcement is acting in good faith -- now, that`s going to be the test. Were the officers sitting in their offices saying, Boy, we just need any little bit of tip and we`re going out there guns blazing and we`re going to round everybody up? That could be ruled pretextual. In other words, I`m following a car and I`m just waiting for that car to make any kind of little traffic stop because I think there`s a drunk driver or a carload of drugs in that car. So the officers` actions are going to be what`s critical to the test, not as much as the confidential informant who may, in fact, be a fraud.

GRACE: Well, her name, allegedly, is Rozita Swinton, if she, in fact, made the phone call. What do we know about her, Mike Brooks?

BROOKS: We know that she has a history of making calls like this in the past. And you know, they talked to her...

GRACE: Like what?

BROOKS: Calling up and saying that there was some untoward things going on and (INAUDIBLE) a sexual nature. I mean, this woman has a history of making fraudulent phone calls. You know, the Texas Rangers were finally able to track her down and -- you know, and she ought to be also held -- you know, held accountable and also possibly do some jail time for making a false police report. But again, as Ray said, law enforcement went into that compound acting in good faith.

GRACE: Ray Giudice, if it`s true, will she ever be prosecuted for it?

GIUDICE: It`s possible, Nancy. You know, abuse of 911 calls or obstruction of justice -- those charges do come up every once in a while. If you`ve got somebody that`s got a pattern, it could be punished and it could be prosecuted. But can I just add in -- Mike touched a very sensitive topic here on this lady`s potential prior calls. That may, in fact, lead to the pretextual argument that I was arguing about earlier for the defense lawyers, that law enforcement should have screened this call out.

GRACE: Oh, blah, blah, blah! So you`re telling me they should run a rap sheet -- it`s not even a rap sheet -- on a woman they don`t know anything about, and on the other hand, girls may be being sexually abused at that moment behind compound walls? Is that what I`m hearing from you, Ray Giudice?

GIUDICE: What you`re hearing from me is that it`s going to be challenged by the defendants` lawyers. It`s going to go all the way up to the Texas state supreme court to say, Did the law enforcement have a burden to know that this lady was a repeat offender?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Texas Rio Grande legal Aid filed a writ of mandamus with the 3rd court of appeals in Austin, Texas, on behalf of these mothers, where we argued that the state did not follow Texas law when they took these children without providing any evidence that these households were creating abusive environments. The 3rd court of appeals ruled on this matter, and they stated that Child Protective Services had no evidence that these children were in imminent danger and that CPS acted hastily in removing them from their families. According to the court, the existence of the FLDS belief system, as described by the department`s witnesses, by itself does not put children of FLDS parents in physical danger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They want their kids back, and I think that is what they`re going to get.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... very, very drastic step that the state of Texas has taken to see that families can be ripped apart from their children without evidence, to see that an agency that`s supposed to be protecting children is actually putting them through quite possibly the most abusive situation they`ve ever been in.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I intend to get them before this is over, and I intend for them to come back to the ranch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: The biggest child protective bust in U.S. history at a secluded Texas compound. In a stunning turn of events, the mothers actually leave their children behind, voluntarily returning to that gated compound, all the while refusing to address the alleged systematic marriages of underage girls to much, much older men.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, here we go. This is an extraordinary moment. For the first time in four years since this facility has been out here, they are allowing us inside the gate. We`ve just passed through, and now we`re going onto one of the main roads inside the gate.

(voice-over): We immediately drove through what seemed to be a construction zone. There was heavy equipment parked everywhere. Then we saw several large wooden buildings -- living quarters, we were told.

(on camera): Just the sense I get of just looking here for these first few moments, this place seems to be huge. One thing I am noticing, the direction we`re going seems to be away from the temple and that we`re going into what looks like maybe one of the residential areas.

We`re pulling over here. This must be our location. We`ll see what happens.

(voice-over): On a balcony, women stood watching, clearly upset. Below, mothers were eager to send one message, that they are the victims.

DONNA, YFZ RESIDENT: They told us before we moved that they would take the children and the mothers together and put them in one compound together -- all of us, all of the people together. That was a lie.

MATTINGLY: No questions were off-limits, but some answers were difficult to find.

(on camera): Is there any time where a woman 16 years or younger is married out here?

ESTHER, YFZ RESIDENT: We just want our children back. We`re not here to talk about ourselves. We just want the children back.

MATTINGLY: But that`s why the children are not here, and that`s why I`m asking these questions. So I hope you don`t mind.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to know what they did today?

MATTINGLY (voice-over): More than 50 of the mothers had been returned to the compound only an hour before by bus. Six mothers chose not to return. The rest are still staying with the youngest children. Investigators encountered problems trying to get simple information, like names and ages. I had the same problem. Questions about age were frequently met with hesitation.

(on camera): How old were you when you were married?

ESTHER: Twenty-one.

MATTINGLY: And you?

MARY: Eighteen.

MATTINGLY: And how old are you now?

ESTHER: I`m 32.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): Almost all the women declined to give their last name. In all the conversations, there was only one confirmation that teens are married here.

(on camera): Are there any young women ages 16 and under who marry out here? And how often does that happen?

MARIE, YFZ RESIDENT: It`s not real common.

MATTINGLY: How young would you say the youngest girl you`ve seen married out here?

MARIE: Probably 16.

MATTINGLY (voice-over): All of the women said the charges of abuse were not true, that no one is forced to marry. And the woman named Sarah who first alerted authorities does not live here.

DONNA: Someone that has once lived here and been mad and turned against. Traitor.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

MARIE: They`ve set this whole thing up to bring persecution against us. It`s the worst insurrection (ph) that`s happened in the United States.

MATTINGLY: I left with still more questions. Some of them apparently won`t be answered until the custody cases go to court.

David Mattingly, CNN, Eldorado, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Next, the FLDS moms, after 400-plus children rescued from that remote Texas compound.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: With their children in state custody after allegations underage girls forced to marry much older men and give birth, FLDS moms voluntarily returned to the gated compound, all claiming they were misled by Texas authorities. But authorities say the so-called plural wives stonewalling police. Are they choosing polygamy and the husbands they share with each other over their own children?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What has happened is so outrageous. I am totally shocked that the American public has allowed this, that the United States would stoop to this. We have been peaceful through all of this, and you take any society on the face of the earth, for that matter, and there would be so many people dead by now, much bloodshed. We have been peaceful. Now, where is the American public to defend us? No one has fought back! Our children have witnessed their fathers, our husbands, on their knees, praying as they defiled our temple! They went in. They have taken everything sacred. Our children`s parenting is (INAUDIBLE) Our children are all we have left! Where is the American public to defend us? We have been peaceful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I need to get some clarification from you. You say it`s voluntary, but to your knowledge, have women as young as 13, 14 and 15 been marrying adult men at this compound?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t have personal knowledge of anybody that young. And that is the truth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: May I ask how old you were when you married?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was 23.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you have to say about the allegations of child abuse?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That it was all based on a phone call. I cannot believe they would uproot a little community over a phone call that somebody made up. There is no girl named that name.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are there teenage women here, teenage women who are married to adult men, girls 16 and under?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s not for me to say. It`s not my place to say.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you like to say to the American public who is watching this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please help us get our children back. We need our children.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I see people have tears (INAUDIBLE) Ma`am, could I ask you why you`re crying? Are you happy to be back?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) children were taken from me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: When we come back, bombshell. New details emerge. Dozens of children documented with broken bones.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE) children (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: We all knew about the alleged systematic marriages and childbirths forced on girls as young as 13 and the full scale investigation into alleged rampant and sexual abuse on little boys in that compound. But now another nightmare. 41 children documented with injuries, including broken bones. 41 broken bones?

Now allegations of sex abuse on the little boys as well. And overnight, a teenage girl gives birth, an underage girl gives birth?

Out to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio joining us there in San Antonio.

Michael, what`s going on?

MICHAEL BOARD, REPORTER, WOAI NEWSRADIO: Yes, that`s a good question, Nancy, what is going on? Yesterday, we heard that an 18-year-old girl, or maybe someone who is younger than 18, gave birth to a child. She did give birth to a very happy, healthy little baby boy. But the question is how old is she?

The people there at the hospital and CPS investigators do not believe she`s 18 years old. The attorney for this group, this polygamist cult, came out and said, oh no, she`s over 18, don`t worry.

But Nancy, really, you have to take everything that this group says with a grain of salt. Today in Austin we heard the head of Texas Child Protective Services go through one instance after another about how their investigators were lied to and deceived from the moment they set foot on this compound.

GRACE: In fact, it`s my understanding, Michael Board, that the children and the mothers who were taken into the coliseum, rescued off that compound, they were identified in various groups. They were given bracelet identifications, and that the moms went around and tore up the bracelets, marked off the names on the bracelets, swapped bracelets.

Why? I don`t understand this.

BOARD: Well, here`s something that will shock you even more. The head of Texas Child Protective Services, who is talking today in Austin, told us -- we were listening in on what he was saying that there was one instance where the investigators were on the compound starting to interview these teenage girls.

They sat down with one teenage girl they believed to be very young, and they said, "Honey, how old are you?" She gave them a blank stare. She looked up at her spiritual husband and said, "How old am I?" He turned to her and said, "You`re 18." The girl turned to the investigator and said, "I`m 18 years old."

GRACE: To Jana Boyle with the "San Angelo Standard Times" -- Jana, thank you for being with us. Can you please explain to me 41 broken bones on these children?

JANA BOYLE, SAN ANGELO STANDARD TIMES: Yes, that`s what was reported today, this 41 broken bones and not necessarily current broken bones. But they do say that they`re -- they don`t have all the x-ray or medical information. So it`s kind of too early to draw conclusions based on that information.

GRACE: Michael Board, what can you tell me about the 41 broken bones?

BOARD: Well, some of them were multiple broken bones like they were talking about. And you think about, you know, why, why -- what could cause this? Is it signs of abuse like some people think it is? Well, that is one possibility. But you also have to think about this, Nancy. What causes brittle bones? Genetics.

GRACE: Brittle bones in children? Whoa, whoa, whoa.

BOARD: Genetics.

GRACE: Brittle bones in little children?

BOARD: Well, they -- that`s what the FLDS lawyers are telling everybody.

GRACE: You`re kidding me?

BOARD: No, they say.

GRACE: Brittle -- whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait. I`ve got to call in a doctor right now.

Dr. Marty Makary, joining us from D.C. He is a physician. He is a professor of public health with Johns Hopkins.

Dr. Makary, please. Look, I`m a J.D., not a D.R. like you, but don`t even start telling me that 41 children have brittle bones.

DR. MARTY MAKARY, PHYSICIAN, PROF. OF PUBLIC HEALTH, JOHNS HOPKINS: It`s really hard to imagine. Unless they`ve been deprived of milk and any source of calcium for their entire childhood, there`s no reason to assume they`re predisposed to a higher risk of broken bones.

GRACE: Back out to Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Tell me about the medical facility there on the compound. If they would deliver births -- and I`m sure that includes cesarean, breach, you name it, blood transfusions, I don`t know -- did they also handle these broken bones as well on these children?

BOARD: That`s a good question. You`re going to have to ask the doctor who is a member of this sect, who runs the family practice on the compound in Elderado. You might want to wonder, you know, who is this guy? He`s name is Dr. Lloyd Barlow. He`s got three offices for his family practice. One is in Hilldale, Utah. One is in Colorado City, Arizona. And one is in Elderado, Texas.

Yes, he is a member of this sect. You have to believe that he was involved intimately with the birthing of babies, no matter what the age of the women are. Yes, if there were teenage girls on this compound giving birth, he was there. He would know about it. And yes, we`re told, Texas rangers have begun their investigation into Dr. Barlow.

GRACE: Doctor -- what is his first name?

BOARD: Dr. Lloyd, L-L-O-Y-D, Lloyd Barlow.

GRACE: The people that founded -- Yearning for Zion, the Zion compound, it`s my understanding were hand picked.

BOARD: Right.

GRACE: . and sent there from Arizona. So my question is, Arizona and other states are now saying, well, we are prosecuting, too. Other than a few isolated prosecutions, they aren`t doing anything. The problem migrates to Texas. They`ve been there in Texas since 2004 and Texas is finally doing something about it.

Do you think the other states are going to take a hint and get busy?

BOARD: I don`t know. It`s been happening in Arizona and Colorado.

GRACE: Utah.

BOARD: It`s been happening there a lot longer than it could happen here in.

GRACE: And Utah.

BOARD: Utah, yes. It`s been happening there a lot longer than here in Texas. You would think if they knew, you know, had proof, evidence there that it was going on, you would hope that they would have done something a long time ago.

GRACE: Please.

BOARD: Here in Texas, it`s -- you know, things operate a little bit here different in Texas. We don`t take some of the stuff that maybe other states take.

GRACE: Joining me is a special guest, Susan Hays. She is one of the many, many lawyers representing a 2-year-old FLDS girl. And let me remind you, as much as many people hate lawyers, these lawyers are doing this, many of them, for free, taking it upon themselves to represent these children.

Susan, it`s a pleasure to have you on. Are you getting the information from CPS and from the government that you need to represent your little girl?

SUSAN HAYS, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING 2-YEAR-OLD POLYGAMIST SECT GIRL: Absolutely not, and I`m furious about it. And what I found is quite the opposite. The family members have been very open with me and with many of the other lawyers and CPS is sending out press releases with salacious details instead of helping us represent these children.

GRACE: What salacious details are you talking about?

HAYS: Well, what you all been talking about on this program and this hysteria of 41 broken bones. I fell off a horse when I was 6 and broke my collarbone. It doesn`t make my parents child abusers. We need to get to facts and not insinuations and start working these cases instead of CPR worrying the media image.

GRACE: So the fact that there are 41 broken bones, if that is, in fact, true, you find that salacious?

HAYS: I find the fact it was released when we don`t know if it`s true salacious. And I find the fact that people saying a girl.

GRACE: But it`s the truth.

HAYS: I -- we don`t know that it`s true.

GRACE: If it`s the truth, you still find it wrong that it was released?

HAYS: I find it wrong that it was released when they haven`t notified the 41 attorneys representing those children that their kids may be in physical abuse situations. You first give the information to do their jobs.

GRACE: How do you know they haven`t?

HAYS: Because the attorneys are all e-mailing each other, asking what, when is CPS going to tell.

GRACE: All of them, all of the 463. You`re in contact with all of them?

HAYS: As much as we can be in contact because the court system in Texas still doesn`t have a good list of us, which is ridiculous.

GRACE: Ma`am, this is only about a month old. Don`t you realize how much CPS is overwhelmed? You know every.

HAYS: And I very much blame the state of Texas for not giving them the resources need to do their job.

GRACE: Yes, you know what? They should have just left all the kids on that compound, Susan, and let them continue to get broken bones naturally like you did and get molested.

HAYS: No, Nancy, when I represent a kid in court, I need to know when there are hearing in that case or orders coming out in that case and we`re not right now.

GRACE: But why are you blaming CPS? They`re clearly doing all they can.

HAYS: Because the (INAUDIBLE) doesn`t have enough resources to handle the case.

GRACE: Next, investigative jackpot. Hand written evidence found hidden in a secret compound safe inside a limestone temple deep behind compound wall.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

GRACE: State`s exhibit number one finally released, the so-called "Bishop`s Papers." Reams of hand written documents found hidden deep within a limestone temple in a secret compound safe. Records documenting up to 21 wives per husband, teenage girls married off and the ages of many young wives was blank. An investigative jackpot.

Out to Susan Roesgen joining us. Susan, what do you make of the just released "Bishop`s Paper." I predict it`ll be state`s exhibit number two.

SUSAN ROESGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Boy, I think so, too, Nancy. I`ve got the same stack of papers that you do and going through this, I found not only the one guy -- and boy, did he live the life, Nancy -- this 67-year- old guy who had 21 wives, one who was 43 years younger than he is, and some 36 children.

But also, Nancy, I found five cases in which the wives were actually listed on these papers as being only 16 years old. Under Texas law, they could be victims of statutory rape if they`re mothers as well as wives. So there`s a lot in here to go through.

GRACE: And interesting, too, Michael Board with WOAI Newsradio. Michael, those are the ones that they thought to write down and remember. This compound was founded by Warren Jeffs, who`s now sitting behind penitentiary bars for underage sex, conspiracy to have underage sex in arranging these forced marriages.

You think they tried to cover their tracks a little bit this time? Even so, you`ve got ages left blank, 16-year-olds giving birth.

BOARD: Well, Nancy, just think of it this way. Say you were a man who`s in his 50s and 60s and say you were married to a teen that`s maybe 13, 14, or 15, would you put that down on a piece of paper that was kept inside of the temple, the main headquarters for this group? I don`t know if I`d want that sort of damning evidence sitting around where someone could get, in the future, their hands on it like we see here.

GRACE: We are taking your calls live. Out to the lines, Roberta in New York. Hi, Roberta.

ROBERTA, NEW YORK RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy. And I want to say God bless you and your family.

GRACE: Thank you.

ROBERTA: My question is, with all this information about the polygamists and their undocumented papers, why isn`t the welfare department that gave out the food stamps or the assistance didn`t take up on this that children that were 13, 14, or whatever, were getting assistance from the state when they were having babies at such a young age?

GRACE: How did that happen, Michael Board? They, obviously, were getting welfare checks from the government and they were -- it was a practice called bleeding the beast. They hated the U.S. government, but they had this scheme, all of these wives, none with a single husband in the home, so they all got welfare and food stamps.

BOARD: Well, that`s right. And you have to remember these couples, these families are not going down to the county courthouse and filling out the right paperwork and getting married. This is all done in their secret little temple in this strange little cult that they`re all a part of.

They don`t have the paperwork saying they are the wife of so and so. So when and if they do apply to the state, the state just sees them as a single unwed mother with kids. Obviously, they`re going to get some sort of help from the state.

GRACE: Joining us tonight, Carolyn Jessop and Florida Jessop. Carolyn, the former wife of YFZ leader Merrill Jessop and author of "Escape." Flora is a former polygamist and child bride. She is the executive director of Child Protection Project.

Ladies, thank you for being with us.

First to you, Carolyn, when we`re talking about the "Bishop`s Papers" that were just released today, do you have any idea who the bishop may be?

CAROLYN JESSOP, AUTHOR OF "ESCAPE", FORMER WIFE OF YFZ LEADER MERRILL JESSOP: I imagine it would be Merrill, because he`s been in -- he`s been in charge of that compound for about -- around the last four years. So that would make him bishop. He only moved up to first councilor after Wendell was kicked out, the man with 20 something wives.

GRACE: And to Flora Jessop, I noticed in these bishop papers that were found hidden away in a secret safe, a lot of the ages on the young girls are blank. What do you make of it, Flora?

FLORA JESSOP, FMR. POLYGAMIST & CHILD BRIDE, EXEC. DIRECTOR OF THE CHILD PROTECTION PROJECT: That`s normal that they leave stuff blank like that. One of the things I found very telling about the bishop`s papers, though, was that there was none of Merrill`s family listed, none of Warren`s family listed, and yet there was a large majority of Warren`s wives around that compound.

And numerous other families that we`ve seen and known to be on that compound were not in those papers. So that is not a complete list of the people on that were on that compound as well.

GRACE: Man, you know, Carolyn, if a list including 21 wives for one guy is not complete, I wonder how many more examples of that there may be.

Carolyn, how much can we rely on all of this evidence?

C. JESSOP: Well, I think it`s some good evidence, but I think the really incriminating evidence is missing, just like what Flora brought out. It`s the first thing I noticed is that Merrill`s family was not on that list. And there were other substantial families not on that list.

The other thing is that the list is outdated. Some of the children that were listed on that list as living in Colorado City, they`re in state custody. So there`s more children down there that -- on that list as saying that they don`t live there.

GRACE: So basically there is no record whatsoever to identify dates of birth on many of these women and these children. We don`t know whose biological dad and mom belong to which kid.

Out to the lines. Shirley in Pennsylvania. Hi, Shirley.

SHIRLEY, PENNSYLVANIA RESIDENT: Hi, Nancy, I don`t know but -- personally but I love you and I am so happy to see your children on.

My question is to you, with all these documentation and everything, since there is no birth certificates, et cetera, how are they going to put the children -- how are they going to know which underage girl has -- is the one that was pregnant and the child belonged to?

How do they know who`s married to who? Because they lie with their names and everybody won`t give their last name.

GRACE: And -- on top of that, Shirley in Pennsylvania, we have now learned that when all the children were in the coliseum before they were sent out to foster care homes, they all had bracelets identifying them by group. And the ladies, the women with them would actually scrub off the names, change the bracelets from child to child, change their clothes to make it even more difficult for Child Protective Services to make any sense of it.

Out to Susan Roesgen, what`s the likelihood this is going to be sorted out?

ROESGEN: Well, Nancy, I think it will all depend on the DNA tests, the DNA testing on all 463 children who were in the coliseum and their mothers who were there and some 90 or so men and women outside of the coliseum who also got tested. We`re going to have to really wait and see what the DNA results show as to who belongs to who.

GRACE: Joining us right now is Shelly Greco. She`s joining us from Dallas, Texas. She`s a lawyer representing two of the FLDS children. Let me remind you, I know a lot of you don`t like lawyers, I understand that. But many of these lawyers are representing these children for free, trying to help them.

With me, Shelly Greco, Dallas, Texas, a veteran trial lawyer.

Shelly, how many FLDS children do you represent? I understand that it`s two and where are they located?

SHELLY GRECO, ATTORNEY REPRESENTING 2 POLYGAMIST SECT CHILDREN: Yes, Nancy, I represent two children. Both of them are currently in CPS custody outside of Houston.

GRACE: Shelly, have they been able to -- the state -- has the state been able to identify your kids` biological mom and dad yet?

GRECO: Yes, they should have, Nancy. Both of my mothers have birth certificates, both of them have driver`s licenses, both of them have birth certificates for their children. My 14-month-old little girl was born at Shannon Medical Center there outside of Elderado. So there is evidence that should be able to identify with regard to the children I represent.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A single secret call brings down the biggest child protective bust in U.S. history. Girls as young as 13 allegedly forced into spiritual marriages, forced to marry and give birth. Reports of physical abuse, child molestation, threats, brainwashing, brainwashing about the so-called outside world.

While other jurisdictions turned a blind eye to the alleged rampant child abuse behind the walls of this gated compounds, the Lone Star state heads into legal battle.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: The details are getting worse for that polygamist ranch in Texas. We`re now hearing some young boys were possibly molested and there also could be physical abuse as dozens of children show evidence of having broken bones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have identified 41 children with past diagnosis of broken or fractured bones. Several of these fractures have been found in very young children.

GRACE: A bombshell. Over 400 children rescued off an isolated Texas compound now headed straight back behind compound walls.

That`s right, all these children headed straight back to the same compound from which they were rescued. Says who? A three-judge panel rules there is no imminent threat to the children. But what about all the reports of rampant child abuse behind compound walls?

These three appellate judges, living up in their ivory tower, tonight sentencing these children to a lifetime behind those compound walls.

UNIDENTIFIED REPORTER: They didn`t remove the 400 kids because of polygamy, but they came out to the ranch, they saw something funny, and all the people on the ranch started telling them funny stories. That`s why they believe there`s a toxic environment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Let`s to be and remember Army Private First Class David Sharrett II, 27, Oakton, Virginia, killed, Iraq. A star high school football player, loved history, reading Shakespeare and Washington Redskins. Favorite music, heavy metal. Dreamed of becoming a history teacher. Leaves behind parents, David and Kimberly, two younger brothers, widow, Heather.

David Sharrett, American hero.

Thank you to our guests but our biggest thank you is to you for inviting us into your homes.

As we say good night, I leave you with a very special salute to our bravest and happy and blessed Memorial Day. Good night, friend.

END