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NANCY GRACE
Aruban Judge Orders Three Holloway Suspects Held
Aired November 26, 2007 - 20:00:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, GUEST HOST: Tonight, three former suspects re- arrested on suspicion of manslaughter in the case of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway. And now an Aruban judge rules all three suspects must stay behind bars, at least for now, as the investigation continues. Dutch teenager and judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe allegedly the last people to see Holloway before she vanishes.
Aruban prosecutors now say they have enough evidence to prove Holloway is, in fact, dead. But tonight: Is this just another case of "catch and release," or is there a finally a real major break in the case of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge in Aruba has granted the prosecution`s request to hold one of the suspects re-arrested in connection with the disappearance with Natalee Holloway. Authorities will detain Joran Van Der Sloot for an additional eight days on the suspicion of manslaughter. The prosecutor asked to keep Van Der Sloot in jail as investigators build their case. Suspects Satish and Deepak Kalpoe are already back in jail.
Now, Holloway was last seen with them back in May of 2005. An Aruban prosecutor says new evidence against the three men includes cell phone records and text messages.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Also tonight: They started with only a tiny pink and white tennis shoe. Now Texas police say they are fairly confident they can identify the little girl whose dead boy washes ashore in a plastic storage bin in Galveston Bay, baby Grace now identified as 2-year-old Riley Ann Sawyers. And as investigators await the final DNA results, two arrests go down.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We now have a tentative identification for baby Grace. She is the little girl whose body washed up in a storage bin in Galveston Bay just last month. Police in Texas say they now believe the child was 2-year-old Riley Ann Sawyers. The girl`s mother, 19-year-old Kimberly Dawn Trenor, moved to Galveston from Ohio earlier this year. She and her boyfriend, 24-year-old Royce Clyde Zeigler, are now in police custody, both arrested Saturday, charged with injury to a child and tampering with evidence.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Also tonight, the desperate search for a 20 year-old Mississippi coed and honor student who vanishes into thin air, Latasha Norman last seen leaving class at Jackson State University, but Norman Never makes it back to her dorm and then is never heard from again, her car left behind on campus. Tonight we`re all asking, Where is Latasha Norman?
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-year-old coed, honor student and accounting major Latasha Norman is nowhere to be found. The Jackson State University student vanishes after leaving an afternoon marketing class November 13, her car still sitting on campus. Police have questioned Norman current boyfriend and her ex, the ex-boyfriend, also a student, arrested just days ago on charges of assaulting Norman. He is accused of hitting Norman with his fist during an argument in a restaurant parking lot back in October. Tonight, concerned and distraught family members want to know what happened to Latasha Norman.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Good evening. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. First tonight: Three former suspects in the Natalee Holloway case back behind bars.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A judge in Aruba has ordered 20 -year-old Joran Van Der Sloot be held in the disappearance of Alabama teen Natalee Holloway. That`s why he was in court, and this time around, Aruba`s chief prosecutor is saying she`s got enough evidence to prove that Natalee Holloway is, in fact, dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we have enough evidence to prove that the girl is not alive anymore.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even without a body.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Even without a body.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Earlier Friday, a judge oversaw separate jailhouse appearances for two other suspects, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, who`ve also denied harming Holloway. The judged ruled there`s enough new so-called incriminating evidence to detain the brothers eight days for more interrogations.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no new evidence. They don`t have (DELETED).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN has learned investigators found discrepancies after re-analyzing the time and location of e-mails, text messages and phone calls among the three suspects the night Natalee Holloway disappeared. The chief prosecutor says by year`s end, he hopes to decide whether to try the three young men for manslaughter. If found guilty, they`d face 15 years in prison.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Is this the big break we`ve all been waiting for and hoping for over the last two-and-a-half years, or is it more of the same, a revolving door that has yet to lead to justice?
For the very latest on the late-breaking developments in Aruba today, let`s go straight out to managing director of "Diario" newspaper Jossy Mansur, who is in Aruba. Jossy, what happened today in court regarding Joran Van Der Sloot? And what can you tell us also about the news conference held by defense attorneys afterwards?
JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "DIARIO": Well, the judge examined whatever the prosecution presented to him. He found sufficient merit in the evidence presented and decided to extend the detention of Joran Van Der Sloot for eight more days.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You know...
MANSUR: The defense lawyers...
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Go ahead.
MANSUR: ... also held a press conference. They tried to belittle whatever the -- well, whatever expressions were coming forth from the prosecution, saying that it`s old stuff, that these wiretaps date back to the beginning, from 2005 on, and that they don`t see anything new in it.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I have to bring in right now Linda Allison, who is Natalee Holloway`s aunt. She is on the phone from Arkansas. First of all, we are delighted to have you with us tonight. I know this has to be tough because every time there are one of these developments, it`s go to be an emotional roller-coaster.
LINDA ALLISON, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S AUNT: Jane, you`re absolutely right. Every time that we hear information, we have that guarded optimism that this is going to be the answer. And with this new prosecuting attorney, with the way he`s handling things this round, I can`t see anything but positive that we`re going to have a good outcome on this.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But I have to ask you, Allison, why don`t they just do something already? Again, they`re arresting them on suspicion of, more days in jail while they`re interrogated and another hearing. If, in fact, they have a smoking gun and the big kahuna, as it were, why not proceed directly to the next step, which I would presume would be some sort of trial, although they don`t have jury trials?
ALLISON: And again, I do not understand the Aruba justice system, and we scratch our heads and cannot fathom how this process works every time because we`re used to what we see in the U.S. But we`re hoping, with this prosecuting attorney, Hans Mos, that he has taken control of this. You know, we`ve gone through -- you know, this is now another prosecuting attorney. We`ve gone through a different police chief that`s in charge. And we`re hoping that this case is potentially on the verge of being broken wide open.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Jossy Mansur -- back to the managing director of "Diario" -- I want to ask you about what everybody`s talking about. In other words, they`ve had two-and-a-half years to develop this case. They say they have a deadline approaching, which some say is a self-imposed deadline. Why not move to the next stage, formally charge them, put them on trial? What would be that procedure if they decided, Well, we finally have the goods?
MANSUR: I think that`s a question that has to be put to the prosecution. They`re the ones that are handling this case. They know what they have in hand. All we can do is guess whatever positive evidence they say they have now, whatever solid evidence they are referring to. So I think that the answer would lie with the prosecution, not with us.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s hope you are right.
Sherryl from West Virginia -- I know all across America, people have been tracking this case for two-and-a-half years. Many people are obsessed with this case. What is your question, ma`am?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I was wondering, when and if -- or let`s say when they charge these guys, how long will they stay in prison, and where would they serve their term?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh, that`s a good question. Jossy, did you hear it? They want to know, if they were, let`s say, convicted, where would they serve their time? Is there a jail facility in Aruba?
MANSUR: Well, of course. There`s a very big jail here. And I think they would serve their time here, although they do have -- according to our justice system, they have the right to petition to serve their jail, or part of it, in Holland.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to talk about this ticking clock, Jossy, because I want to get everybody`s reaction to this. Apparently, there is a deadline coming up in January, whereby the prosecution has to decide at that point whether they want to proceed to trial or let this case go. Is that how it works in Aruba? Because we here in America are brought up with the notion that when it comes to, for example, murder, there is no statute of limitations.
MANSUR: Well, in murder in Aruba, also there is no statute of limitation. What is happening is that the defense lawyers put in a request to the judge to force the prosecution to either bring charges before the 31st of December or to take these three suspects off the list of suspects. That`s the only thing that`s going to happen before the 31st of December, not that the case will be over with or that it will be closed or considered a cold case. The case will go on. And whenever after that, if that is the case and new evidence surfaces, then the case will go on.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are delighted to have with us tonight Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent who is in Aruba, who has been tracking this case for some time now. Susan, maybe you can clarify for us, because we`re all trying to figure out how it works in Aruba -- what about this deadline that comes up the first of the year? Is it a real deadline? Is it a deadline that they artificially created?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, in a way, yes. The way it was explained to us by the defense attorneys, as well as the prosecutor, is that, technically, there had been a hearing in the past where the defense attorneys were pressing authorities to say, Look, make a decision one way or the other. These young men are being harassed, in our view. We want you to make up your mind about what`s going to happen here. This cannot follow them the rest of their lives.
So to a degree, that pushed the limit. And prosecutors said that that was part of the reason why they wanted to make a decision by the end of the year, to get enough information to decide whether they have enough evidence to charge these three people with manslaughter -- Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to bring in prosecutor Eleanor Dixon because to me, this is totally bizarre and wild. The defense attorneys say, You know, we want this over with so that these suspects can go on with their lives. How bizarre is that? I mean, isn`t the whole nature of criminal proceedings that you -- if you`ve committed a crime, you should always know that back there (ph), they might get you, even -- even decades later. Now with DNA, people are getting convicted decades after the crime.
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Well, that`s so true. And of course, we all know the system is different in Aruba. But it would be great if it could remain open, as always with a murder case. I wonder, too, why type of evidence they have that they`re getting ready to pin on these guys. You know, you can only keep a secret between two people or three people if two of them are dead. So I wonder if maybe they talked at some point recently.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to bring in psychotherapist Robi Ludwig, author of "Till Death Do Us Part." Does this smack of politics, Robi? You know, this has been a big headache for Aruba. Let`s create an artificial deadline, bring the suspects in for one last shot, and then at the first of the year say, Oh, never mind, and now we`re moving on and putting this case behind us?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, I hope if it`s a case of politics, then it`s politics for the right reasons. I mean, let`s give Aruba the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they really do want to solve this unsolved crime. It does not look good for them and I`m sure it has hurt their business in some way. Why wouldn`t they want to solve this unsolved crime?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, let`s go back to Susan Candiotti because there were so many major developments today, specifically word coming out that they may have some evidence that involves wiretapping. What can you tell us?
CANDIOTTI: Well, it`s not only wiretapping. Yes, we`ve been reporting that, but also, they picked up new leads from -- prosecutors say, from the videotaped depositions that took place two years ago, that for the very first time since all this broke last week, Jane, we`re hearing prosecutors acknowledge that mistakes were made and leads were overlooked and things weren`t done properly.
And so this new team of investigators that came in from the Netherlands, working with Aruban authorities, they stress, have unearthed, they say, new things to look at, also (INAUDIBLE) new technology to go over (INAUDIBLE) where chat room messages took place and where cell phone calls were made and what time they were made the night that Natalee disappeared, new information that came from wiretaps, and using new technology to be able to pin down where some of these calls were made, for example, what time they were made. And they acknowledged to me that they found some discrepancies.
Now, we don`t have any more specifics, other than that. But they claim that they picked up information from those depositions that was overlooked, as well as new information from wiretaps that led them someplace else. So they say they`re holding -- they gave some information to the judge to get this extension of time for the detention, but they also said that they withheld about 10 percent or so from (INAUDIBLE) defense attorneys, so if they (INAUDIBLE) so as not to tip their hand.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So let me bring in forensic scientists Lawrence Kobilinsky to try to analyze this wiretapping cell phone information that they say they`ve revisited and found something dramatic and new. Are they talking about pings? Because we know that Joran Van Der Sloot finally settled on the story of -- he and Natalee were dropped off at the Marriott, they walked on the beach, she didn`t want to leave, he left her there, and the Kalpoe brothers said they dropped them off at the lighthouse, which is at a different location. There`s conflicting stories.
Do you think they analyzed the pings from the cell phones and then figured out where they were when they were making those calls, like, Hey, pick me up, or, Drop me off here, whatever?
LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Jane, that`s very astute of you and I agree with you. That would be incredibly important evidence because it would therefore show that they were not where they said they were. I have been to Aruba. I visited all those places. The lighthouse is quite a distance from the Carlos and Charlie`s place. So that could be very possible.
But let`s back up and let`s just remember that there really is no crime scene. They really don`t have a body. They do not know that she is, in fact, dead. There is no real physical evidence that indicates that there`s been a crime of violence.
And I think that this may be one last opportunity to get one of these three people to turn on other two because you`re right, this deadline is fast approaching. And this gives them an opportunity that they didn`t -- were unsuccessful right from the beginning. Maybe they`ll try it one more time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I think you might be right because, boy, if they could get one of these three young men to turn on the other, that would be amazing. In fact, it`s amazing that they haven`t turned on each other in two-and-a-half years.
To tonight`s "Case Alert." The FBI joins the search for young mom Stacy Peterson, vanishing in the Chicago suburbs. Peterson`s husband, a recently retired police sergeant, named a suspect in her disappearance, Illinois State Police also asking for tips about any sightings of the couple`s two cars around the time of Stacy Peterson`s disappearance. Now, both cars have been impounded by police. If you have any information at all, we urge you, call the Illinois State Police at 815-740-0678.
And tonight, Nancy has a brand-new message about the twins on her baby blog. For this latest message, plus photos and all sorts of video, go to CNN.com/nancygrace.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Holloway was last seen leaving a bar with Van Der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers more than two years ago. What caused Holloway`s probable death and what role, if any, Van Der Sloot and brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe played, prosecutors won`t say or don`t fully know. All three young men have always maintained their innocence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in for Nancy Grace as we try to unravel the mystery in Aruba that seems to go on and on without end. Are today`s developments the big break or a big game of, Look how hard I`m trying, on the part of the Aruban government?
I want to go straight back out to Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent in Aruba. Susan, we know the three young men are behind bars tonight. How long are they likely to stay there? And how are the interrogations going?
CANDIOTTI: Well, first of all, start with the interrogations. According to the defense attorneys representing the Kalpoe brothers, as far as their clients are concerned, they said that authorities have been coming in to talk to them each day since they were picked up last week, although they said the Kalpoe brothers are saying that they`re not going to answer any questions unless the police have some new questions for them. So far, they said their clients are saying everything the police have been asking them, they`ve heard before. And so they`re saying, Unless you`ve got something new for us, we`re not talking.
And the defense attorneys are also saying that this questioning is going on sometimes for 15 minutes, sometimes for an hour, and that the conditions under which they`re being kept at these two separate jails are intolerable, in their words, with, as they`re describing it, cockroaches and rats. That`s what we`re hearing about the interrogations.
Now, what was the other thing you asked, Jane? I`m sorry, I forgot already.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, just trying to figure out how long they`re going stay behind bars because in the Aruban system...
CANDIOTTI: Right.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: ... there`s this sort of cockamamie system where every eight days, they have another hearing and they`ve got to present more evidence. And it just -- it just strikes a lot of us here Stateside as a little kooky.
CANDIOTTI: Well, the way it`s been set up right now, the judged ruled that Joran Van Der Sloot has to remain behind bars for 16 days. Now, his first day- -first eight days that he was held since he was picked up in the Netherlands wasn`t quite up, but prosecutors asked for and got sort of two eight-day segments in a row. So this means that the judge was convinced he had enough new evidence to keep him behind bars until December 7 before prosecutors have to come back and ask for more time, if they want it.
Now, the Kalpoe brothers only have to be held -- will only be held until this Thursday, unless prosecutors, as expected, will go back before the judge and say, We need more time.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: CNN has learned a new team of Dutch and Aruban investigators have been recreating cell phone transmissions and text messages among the suspects after Holloway disappeared. Discrepancies allegedly were found. Authorities say some information initially was improperly analyzed or overlooked.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is the case that has obsessed the nation. What happened to Natalee Holloway?
The phone lines lighting up. Sherryl from West Virginia, your question, ma`am? Oh! How about Stacy from California?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Jane. How are you?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hey, how`s it going?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Wonderful. I just had a question regarding this whole time -- how come the chaperones that went with them have never, like, really been requested or have never really come out and, like, spoke to the media so we can find out what they were thinking and if they can ID the three suspects? I`m just wondering how come that`s never happened, we haven`t heard from them? And would they be found liable for -- since they were, you know, legally responsible for these minors when they went over there?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, I believe that they were questioned by the FBI. And I do believe also that all of the classmates who were there with her traveling were questioned because I`ve read some transcripts where they`ve commented.
But let me ask you, Doug Burns, defense attorney, the bottom line in all of this, it`s very hard to prosecute a case when there is no body, correct?
DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It`s hard, but it`s not impossible. We call it the corpus delicti. Not to throw around fancy Latin terminology, but without the corpus delicti, of course, it`s very difficult because the argument is, Let`s look at our watch and see if she`s going to walk in the courtroom door, which has been argued. So you`re right. This is -- you framed it exactly right. Is this a real new development or is it another third arrest that`s just going to go away and they`re going to be released? That`s what we`re going to find out in the next couple weeks.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m sure we`re going to be talking more about this.
When we come back: Have Texas police solved the mystery of the 2-year- old girl found dead in a plastic storage bin washing ashore on Galveston Bay? More in a second.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a few weeks ago that I held up this little shoe and asked, who is Baby Grace? Who does this belong to? We`re fairly confident we know the answer to that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was a very fun loving girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Riley loved Elmo. I had gotten this just a couple of weeks ago anticipating Christmas, maybe seeing her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Riley Ann Sawyers hailed from Menter (ph), Ohio, it`s a small suburb, or a small town in the Cleveland area.
And she and her mother came down here this year. Several events led to our October 29 discovery of Riley`s body in a box in a small island in West Galveston Bay.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Hi, I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
She is an angelic child with a beautiful smiling face. Tragically, now, two-year-old Riley Ann Sawyers is dead. Authorities say they are fairly confident that the girl found late last month stuffed in a box is the missing Riley.
Today the baby`s father and the girl`s paternal grandmother held an emotional news conference and just minutes ago literally police released a criminal complaint which outlines the confession of the mother. It`s horrific stuff.
For the very latest on this complex and harrowing story, let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent Sean Callebs in Spring, Texas. Sean, what`s the latest?
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we can tell you Spring, Texas is a bedroom community of the Houston area.
And behind me, this house, 6811 is where Kimberly Trenor Zeigler, she apparently, according to Royce Zeigler, the second`s attorney, the couple got married back in may. It wasn`t the police who released this document that we received. But I want to read it to you, Jane. Because anybody that followed the story about so-called Baby Grace, it is going to be very emotional and it`s difficult to hear.
In talking about what happened to the child, Kimberly Trenor writes that both of them, Kimberly as well as Royce beat Riley Ann Sawyers with two separate leather belts and held her head underwater in a bathtub. She goes on to say Royce picked her up by her hair and also threw Riley across the room and which caused her head to slam against the tile floor.
And then after apparently the very worst had happened, Kimberly writes Trenor also describes that Royce concealed the blue plastic container inside a storage shed that contained the body of Riley at 6811 Ennis Lane which is where we are right now in the town of Spring for a period of two months.
And we all know now that fisherman apparently found that plastic tub on a sandbar off the coast of Galveston and inside the very tragic remains of young Riley Ann Sawyers. Jane?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have to go to Pat Brown, criminal profiler and author of "Killing for Sport" that is the title of your book. This horrific litany of abuse, leading to death, and then keeping the body for some time before finally letting it wash away, what does it tell you about the mentality of these two individuals?
PAT BROWN, CRIMINAL PROFILER: Well, Jane, these are some cold blooded people. And it is really sad to realize that many children end up in homes where they`re totally unwanted, they`re totally unloved and they just get in the way. They become pain in the neck to those people supposedly caring for them. And a mother like this, if you can call her that, she had a child, the child was probably anything she ever really wanted in her life, to turn out almost like a little sister, you have to baby sit a little sister and that little sister was annoying. You never develop the motherly kind of feelings.
And what`s really awful, awful to note is that the child was away from the grandmother, was away from the biological father so nobody even knew the child went missing. So this child was really at the mercy of just these two people and look what happened to her.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist. I have to ask you about the fact that according to the complaint, the mother confessed in the process of beating the child to death they stopped and gave the child pain medication. That, to me, doesn`t compute.
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: If it is true, we don`t know that, when you have an abusive parent, their conflicted. So they`re very enraged and out of control being violent towards the child, they actually experience the child questioning them, and sometimes they get the parent to feel they`re unliked. But during a nanosecond in time, they can feel guilty and try to repair the damage that they have done.
That`s one possibility here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I want to Laura Depledge (ph) in Cleveland, Ohio and she is an attorney for the biological father, Robert Sawyers. Thank you so much for joining us. We watched the very emotional news conference held by your client and his mother. A woman who did amazing detective work, the grandma, to solve this case. Did they know this horrific information when they spoke today and what has their reaction been?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, they absolutely did not have access to the information prior to the commencement press conference. I learned about it on the 6:00 news. I called them immediately and they had unfortunately already heard it over the television.
VELEZ-MITHCELL: Oh, it is so horrifying to imagine. This young man whose biological mother it was who was beaten to death, and his mom, that`s the grandma you`re looking at, she did some amazing detective work. Let listen to what she had to say earlier today.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean obviously anybody that listened to that story that you`re living in Texas and somebody from Ohio Child Protective Services comes down and takes your child. Ohio does not have jurisdiction in the State of Texas for one. So that didn`t make any sense. To remove the child from the home, there would have been prior investigations.
And you think that they might have contacted the father if they were suspicious of something or the grandparents. Then as the story went on. The story came out that she claimed that the social worker knocked her down and took the child and you didn`t get up and see what kind of car she`s in and get a license plate number and call the police because you`ve just now been assaulted. Somebody knocked you over and grabbed your child. It didn`t make any sense. None of it made any sense.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Let`s go back to CNN correspondent Sean Callebs who is in Spring, Texas. Explain to us. This is the grandmother explaining the story that Kimberly gave her when she said, hey, where is our granddaughter. And she give this little crazy story is that a social worker grabbed the child and ran off. What was the time line, how did she end up going from Ohio to Texas leaving the biological father and hooking up with this other guy?
CALLEBS: It`s a somewhat convoluted story. She met Roy Zeigler II on line playing an online video game. Apparently it was one of the kind of games you can put a headset on with a speaker. And they were able to converse back and forth.
Apparently after a period of weeks or months, that`s when Kimberly Trenor then moved down here, and according to Zeigler`s attorney, Royce Zeigler`s attorney, the couple got married back in May.
It`s interesting, too, because Royce Zeigler also paints - his attorney also paints a picture of a 24-year-old that`s not very mature at all. When we asked him about this probable cause affidavit where Kimberly throws him under the bus and says he was the one that threw the girl across the floor and went on and talked about the things that happened to the young girl.
And his attorney who is Wendell Odom who also represented Andrea Yates earlier, wait a minute. If she`s trying to cast all the blame on Royce, there`s no way that he is the only person culpable in all of this. We expect this information could go to a grand jury as early as tomorrow, Jane.
VELEZ-MITCHEL: And we have so many callers. Hang in there for one sec. We want to go to Neil Davis III from Galveston, Texas who is an attorney for this suspect, Royce Zeigler II. Your reaction to this horrific litany of sadism that is mentioned in the criminal complain, allegedly a confession from your client`s wife.
NEIL DAVIS III, ROY ZEIGLER`S ATTORNEY (on phone): To start off, we are both Wendell Odom and I are both defending Royce in this. We have not seen this confession yet. We had a pretty good reason to believe that she was going point her finger at Royce in this.
It would be nice to take a look at all of this. What we`re surprised to hear that they both beat her and held her head. We`re still in the fact-finding stage of this. So I really don`t know how to reply to that.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tye in Washington, you`ve been waiting a long time. What is your question?
CALLER: I was wondering how long the body was in the box?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Oh yeah. Sean Callebs. Give us a time line after they allegedly killed the child before they actually moved the body.
CALLEBS: This is going be tough to hear as well. Because they apparently killed the child back in July, and then kept the child in a shed for as long as two months, and then authorities found that blue plastic tub with the little girl`s body in it on October 29th. So it was some time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It`s so horrible. Hard to even talk about it.
When we come back, coed and honor student Latasha Norman.
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(NEWSBREAK)
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Latasha Norman`s father makes a promise he hopes his 20 year old daughter can hear. Tuesday Latasha`s family stood together as JSU`s lead investigator told the media they have no solid leads to her disappearance. Latasha was last seen leaving class last Tuesday afternoon around 2:00. Somewhere between her class and her dorm, Latasha vanished. Her car was found still parked on her dorm at JSU`s campus.
JPD, the Heinz (ph) County Sheriff`s Office, and the FBI are helping JSU search for Latasha. Heinz County sheriff and JPD chief Malcolm McMillan (ph) says Latasha`s case deserves national attention.
As the hours, minutes and seconds tick away since Latasha disappeared, her family holds to their faith.
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VELEZ- MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in tonight for Nancy Grace. Where is Latasha Norman, that`s what her frantic family and friends desperately want to know.
The Mississippi woman who was an honor student at Jackson State University was last seen on November 13 when she left the school after class.
Now recently she got in a fight recently with an ex-boyfriend who allegedly hit her. He was arrested. He is out on bail. But he is not considered a suspect at this time.
For the very latest, let`s go straight out to Commander Gerald Jones of the Jackson, Mississippi Police Department. Commander, what can you tell us about Latasha`s last steps?
COMMANDER GERALD JONES, JACKSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: Right now we`re interviewing the schoolmates and workmates. As mentioned, we know she attended her last class and was let out somewhere around 2:30 that day. And we`re right now trying to retrace those steps and talk to anyone who may have seen her at that time.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now her car was left on campus. So she didn`t drive away. She didn`t return to her dorm room. What about her cell phone? Did she use her cell phone after the time of her disappearance? What about her purse. Is it missing?
JONES: We don`t have -- she had several purses, the purse we think she may have had that day which contains her personal items and effects has not been found. We do have some activity on the cell phone shortly after she left that class. We`re certainly running those leads to the ground.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: So you`re checking the pings, as they say.
JONES: That`s correct.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Well let`s hope you get something there. We`re very pleased to have with us, Danny Bolden, who is the father of the missing woman, Latasha Norman. First of all, sir, thank you so much for joining us. I know this has got to be very, very difficult for you. And I want you to know that our thoughts and prayers are with you.
And I speak for the entire staff here at NANCY GRACE. Tell us about your daughter. I understand she is fond of calling her mother all the time but has not called her since she disappeared.
DANNY BOLDEN, FATHER OF LATASHA NORMAN (on phone): That`s correct. They had a like a sister relationship. They talked daily.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, go ahead sir.
BOLDEN: She -- my wife would talk Latasha home from her job at Michael`s. She would talk her all the way back to her dorm every night. It was a ritual. Any time she couldn`t get in contact with Latasha, she became worried. Because they`re like sisters.
VELEZ-MITCHELL:" I understand there was a tire-slashing incident a little while ago, her tires were slashed at some point recently and her license plate stole stolen. What do you know about that? Do you think it might be connected to this?
BOLDEN: I don`t know. But Latasha did inform us of that. When she informed us of what was going on with her vehicle, I instructed her to make sure she reported everything to the campus police so to make sure they had a log of everything that was going on against her and against her vehicle.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: And of course the ex-boyfriend, who is also apparently student at the same university, he is not considered a suspect, and we certainly don`t want to implicate him.
But what do you know about the argument they had that resulted in him getting arrested?
BOLDEN: I have known Stanley, Mr. Cole for approximately two years. I didn`t know anything about the incident that happened in Pearl. I found out about this incident when we came down Wednesday morning and we discovered that Latasha was missing. And the Jackson County Police Department showed us the report she had filed against him.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is a disturbing story. We have a caller from Illinois. Cassandra, what is your question?
CALLER: I have a question. My daughter was attacked at Jackson State September 15 of this year of this year. We`re from Chicago so we came and got her and brought her home. And we spoke to the president of the university who promised that they would give this information would be going out to the other students. What are they doing about informing students about attacks in the university? Because this is like a progressive state to me.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let me go back to Commander Gerald Jones of the Jackson Police Department. Is this considered an unsafe campus in general?
JONES: I represent the City of Jackson. The Jackson State police which is what she`s alluded to, what she`s talking about, is actually a separate law enforcement agency.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, but I mean, is it a dangerous area? Do women need to be worried. We can`t dance around this. This is life and death issues here.
JONES: Sure. You ask me about the campus itself. We have nothing to indicate that the campus is not safe. This is an isolated incident. So far as we know, nothing of this nature has happened since I`ve been here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Dr. Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist, what should they be doing to find this woman?
DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: I think this is going take good detective work. I think they have to ask the public for assistance. For all we know she`s been kidnapped and perhaps even taken out of state. We need to talk to all of her acquaintances. We need to check her communications. Cell phone records, pinging as you pointed out, whether it`s sell phone or e-mail communications.
Her last steps have to be traced, all of her acquaintances have to be spoken to, gathering information. All of this may help. And the public will play major role, I hope.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutor Eleanor Dixon, with so many of these case we see foreshadowing here. Here we have tires slashed, we have a missing license plate. We have a fight with a boyfriend. Do you have signs that lead to some sort of turmoil and problems?
ELEANOR DIXON, PROSECUTOR: Yes, sometimes there are signs. And although the ex-boyfriend is not considered a suspect by any means, it`s normal to question those closest to her. Because in so many cases, we see the person responsible for the disappearance is the person closest to the victim.
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VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now over to Headline News, Glenn Beck. Hey, Glenn. What`s up?
GLENN BECK, HEADLINE NEWS HOST: Well, tonight we have some news you may have missed while you were doing the whole turkey detox thing. I`m still trying to get my equilibrium back. Seems that some Islamic terrorists may have paid off some Mexican drug lords to sneak them across the border. Hmm.
And here`s another one the government tried to slip past you. The Pentagon is trying to get refunds on signing bonuses paid to seriously wounded vets.
Oh, and one more for good measure. All that holiday spending they say is not going put a dent in our economy. Merry Christmas. All this and more in just a bit.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Where is Latasha Norman? We all want to know. And the good news, Dr. Robi Ludwig, is that Facebook is getting involved. Twelve-hundred people have gone on Facebook trying to spread the word. That`s kind of a new development for society.
LUDWIG: It`s an online networking site. And a very good one from what I hear and why it works is because basically people like to feel impactful and like to help and Facebook is a way to do that. Sometimes in our closer relationships, they can be very complicated and we can be too subjective so that`s why this strategy can be really helpful.
VELEZ-MITHCELL: It might be more effective than some of those physical searches. Very quickly, Pat Brown, surveillance cameras didn`t pick up anything on campus. Should they have more surveillance cameras at these campuses?
BROWN: I would love to see it, Jane, because something can happen and we`d love to have a video blog of that. But I want to say something. This is unlikely to be a stranger abduction. Why, first parking lot incident, she was targeted with a slashing of tires, second parking lot incident, she was punched in the face, third, parking lot incident, stranger? I don`t think so.
VELEZ-MITHCELL: I think you`re putting together the dots. We`re going to break this case I certainly hope.
Tonight let`s stop to remember Army Staff Sergeant Zackary Tomczak. Just 24 from Huron, South Dakota. Killed in Iraq on a fourth tour of duty. Awarded the Bronze Star, the Purple Heart, the Army Service Ribbon and the National Defense Service Medal.
He loved the outdoors, football and wrestling. He leaves behind parents, Blaise (ph) and Mary, sisters Meagan (ph), Andrea, Tatum and Sierra. Brother Nathan. And grieving window Beth.
Zachary Tomczak. An American hero.
We want to thank all our guests tonight for their insights. Thanks to you at home for tracking the important cases with us. Remember to visit Nancy`s baby blog at cnn.com/nancygrace. We hope to see you here tomorrow night 8:00 sharp Eastern. Until then have a terrific and a safe evening.
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