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NANCY GRACE

Accused Astronaut to Be Evaluated in Houston

Aired February 7, 2007 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight: The right stuff? No way! NASA`s elite star traveler hides her face under a coat after formal charges she not only stalked a love rival but this NASA astronaut traveled 900 miles to confront her victim armed with pepper spray, a wig, a mallet, a gun, a buck knife, plastic gloves and plastic trash bags. What did she want to do with those?
And tonight: A teenager heads to ritzy Park Avenue for a routine nose job and ends up dead. We investigate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mor Glisko was an 18-year-old honor student with dreams of becoming a corporate lawyer. She thought a routine nose procedure might help correct damage caused from a car accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a (INAUDIBLE) to fix her nose that was broken in the accident.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Glisko took her daughter to Dr. Yoel Shahar`s office in Manhattan. She says the doctor assured her there was nothing to worry about. Glisko left the doctor`s office briefly, only to return to a nightmare.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the doctor came from the other room (INAUDIBLE) told me (INAUDIBLE) your daughter has (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While in Dr. Shahar`s office, Mor went into a coma. She was rushed to the hospital, where she later died.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everybody. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us tonight. Hey, you, under the coat, we know it`s you, the lady astronaut! First tonight, to Florida.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And who is the suspect?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know if I can give that information out right now because it has to do with the space program.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are very concerned about the tragic situation involving Lisa Nowak.

We can tell you that Lisa Nowak, who had been scheduled for duties related to the upcoming shuttle missing, has been removed from flight status.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We expect astronauts, as we expect any NASA employee, to conduct themselves in a way that does not bring any dishonor to the space program, but we do not meddle into the private lives of astronauts or other employees within NASA.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mike Coats made the decision to remove Lisa Nowak from flight status. It makes no statement whatsoever on the state of her mental health.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The astronauts go through a very detailed psychiatric and psychological evaluation at the time of selection. The astronauts get an annual medical evaluation that`s very thorough. That is with a trained aerospace medicine physician.

We`re trained to look for behavioral issues to be concerned about, the family`s well-being, spouse and other dependents.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If she were to be cleared of all the charges in Florida, would she be reinstated flight status?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, it`s hard to comment until we know what happens, and then we`ll wait and see how it works out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: "Lost in space," "Dark side of the loon" -- just a few of the headlines on the front pages today after a NASA astronaut is implicated in a deadly love triangle, today a lot of people just thanking their lucky stars that no one ended up dead.

Out to Bob Hazen with 580 WDBO radio. What`s the latest?

BOB HAZEN, AM580 WDBO: The very latest, of course, is the big story, she left here from 5:00 AM, left from Orlando International Airport after staying the night at a hotel not far from the airport, flew to Houston, Texas, along with Colonel Steve Lindsey -- he`s the head of the astronaut program -- on a commercial jet, landed there around 8:00 AM to possibly an even bigger media frenzy than she found here in Orlando, got out there, went straight to Johnson Space Center, where she was undergoing evaluations. We`re told those are both medical, possibly psychological. And after that, she`s going to be free to go back home.

GRACE: You mean other than the anklet?

HAZEN: That`s right. She has to be monitored, obviously, with that GPS tracker. She can`t come back into Florida without that tracker alerting both law enforcement and the alleged victim in this, Colleen Shipman. And beyond that, she can`t get past the east side of Orange County, which, of course, if she were to cross that line, would put her in Brevard County, which is where Ms. Shipman lives.

GRACE: Out to Michael Shiloh, investigative reporter there in Houston, Texas. Where is she tonight?

MICHAEL SHILOH, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, tonight she`s at Johnson space center. She has been undergoing a psychological evaluation, I understand, and will be headed home. I also believe her children -- people have been asking me all day, Where are her children? They`re with her husband, Richard. They`re safe. And right now, she`s just going to have to untangle this mess.

GRACE: OK. Wait a minute. Michael Shiloh joining us from Houston, Texas. Right now, the defendant, the suspect, Lisa Marie Nowak, is at Johnson Space Center undergoing medical evaluation for what? I didn`t know she was ill.

SHILOH: Well, she -- they`re in what you might call damage control mode at NASA. There was a news conference this afternoon in which -- well, let`s see, Shana Dale and a lot of the NASA representatives told us that they are going to reevaluate their psychological testing and evaluations of astronauts, both future and current.

GRACE: Michael, am I paying for that?

SHILOH: Yes, you are. It`s part of the NASA budget.

GRACE: Good to know.

OK. To you, Jean Casarez. It looks scary. It`s a BB gun. Here`s the reality. Prosecutors allege this lady astronaut got angry over a love rival and pulled a BB gun and sprayed her with mace. I`m a little more concerned because she also had with her a buck knife, a brand-new mallet she had just purchased, plastic gloves and plastic trash bags.

OK, Jean, not a good scenario. That`s the reality. Why am I paying for a NASA psychological evaluation at Johnson Space Center?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Because that`s the protocol. The prosecutors are saying these are critical issues when it comes to attempted murder, and that`s why they are charging her at this point with attempted murder. That BB gun, she said in a statement, that she was going to not use it but point it at the alleged victim if she wouldn`t talk with her.

GRACE: She would point the gun at the alleged victim.

Let`s unleash the lawyers, Randy Zelin in New York, Jason Oshins also joining me, a New Jersey lawyer. To the both of you. That is what aggravated assault is. First to you, Jason Oshins. Aggravated assault doesn`t necessarily mean that the person is shot, it means that you put them in fear of immediate serious bodily injury, Jason.

JASON OSHINS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, with a weapon. And obviously, she used pepper spray. She had the gun. She had the possession of it. Whether or not she intended to use it or not or it was part of her ploy, it remains to be seen, but certainly enough to charge her with the aggravated assault.

GRACE: Wa-wa-wa-wa-wa-wait! You know, to you, Randy Zelin. That was maybe a foul ball that Oshins just hit. That`s not a good defense, that, Yes, that`s the correct charge, aggravated assault. No. How are you going to bail her out?

RANDY ZELIN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, certainly, being charged with the assault is far better than being charged with attempted murder. The issue here is what substantial step did she take toward intending to kill this person? None.

GRACE: Other than driving 900 miles armed to the teeth?

ZELIN: She may have intended to scare her. That`s menacing. It`s not attempted murder. Big difference.

OSHINS: In and of itself, that doesn`t mean anything. It`s what you intended to go through with. Really, the proof would be in the pudding.

GRACE: Attempted murder is when you plan a murder and you carry out a major step toward the murder, like stalking the woman.

Out to you, Bob Hazen. Is it true that this alleged victim claims the NASA astronaut, lady astronaut -- they make Barbies that are lady astronauts, OK? This is a role model. Is it true she stalked this victim for two months? If so, how?

HAZEN: Well, that`s according to the restraining order that was filed by Ms. Shipman. That`s what she says. She says two months. There`s no real backup behind that. What we do know is that in January, late January...

GRACE: Do you have some reason to doubt her?

HAZEN: We don`t have the details of it. I don`t doubt her necessarily, we just don`t have the actual facts behind that. We just know that in January, she did apparently use Mr. Oefelein`s computer in order to print out these travel plans that Ms. Shipman had made. So at that point, at least, it seems she would have already known about this relationship between Ms. Shipman and Mr. Oefelein.

GRACE: You know, that`s a whole `nother can of worms -- out to you, Dr. Andrea Macari, clinical psychologist -- going onto someone else`s computer and getting their private e-mails?

ANDREA MACARI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes, definitely. Nancy, I have to say I think this con (ph) is not coming from a sad place but a mad place. We`re looking at her as being this crazy person, she did something evil and horrible. I disagree. I think what we`re seeing is mental illness that`s underlying this entire thing.

GRACE: Mental illness?

MACARI: Yes. Nancy, I believe that this is a case of delusional disorder, that she had a fantasy relationship with this guy, but there was no relationship to begin with. And I think her attempted murder is the result of those symptoms from that disorder.

GRACE: Well, in her defense, joining us tonight is a special guest that joined us last night, Jonathan Clark. He is a friend of Lisa Nowak`s. He is a former NASA flight surgeon. Jonathan, when you are hearing all these theories bandied about and allegations, recitations of facts, how does that jive with your knowledge of your friend, Lisa Marie Nowak?

JONATHAN CLARK, FRIEND OF NOWAK: Well, Nancy, I`ve known Lisa since 1994, when she came to Johnson Space Center with my wife, Laurel (ph). They were both naval officers in the new astronaut class. Rich and I were both astronaut spouses and also naval officers, and so we shared a lot in common. And I think you have to look at the total picture of her life, that she was a very accomplished person, Naval Academy graduate, naval flight officer, flight career, then through test pilot school as a flight engineer. And she had performed admirably in all those endeavors, and she was also very dedicated as a mom and as a wife.

And what you see here is obviously some aberrant behavior that is brought on by a variety of different possibilities that have not yet fully been explained. And so I think we owe her the benefit of the doubt. And again, obviously, in a court of law, she`s innocent until proven guilty. And the same thing applies until her evaluation is complete.

GRACE: Well, Jonathan, in all the years that you knew her -- and I know that she helped you immensely throughout the past -- my question is, Did you ever know her to be unstable? Had she ever had any known mental illnesses whatsoever?

CLARK: No, but sometimes mental illness can be compounded by situations. And she obviously had been through quite a bit after Columbia. She was one of our casualty assistance officers and helped immensely with my son`s dealing with his loss.

She then had to face the reality of going into space and facing that same risk that the other astronauts do. It`s not unlike flying in combat. It`s a very risky endeavor. And so she had to prepare herself and her family for that potential outcome, come back from this immense high from space flight, and there`s this void there that now happens after you`ve been through something that`s really incredibly exhilarating, and then there`s this void. And sometimes, you continue on in other thrill-seeking endeavors, such as maybe, you know, the things that she was -- has been accused of.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lines. Michelle in Ohio. Hi, Michelle.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, will Miss Nowak be charged in a military-style court or in the same judicial system everyone else would be charged in, in the same situation?

GRACE: Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: Well, you know, I think Michelle brings up a very big issue here because they are all military personnel that are involved in this case, so you definitely could have some charges and some issues in a military court. As for now, it is state court charges just against Lisa Nowak.

GRACE: And to you, Michael Shiloh. Is it true that NASA officials took literally a supersonic jet across the country to Florida to find out what was going on with Nowak?

SHILOH: That`s my understanding, too. But they took a commercial jet back.

GRACE: You know what? I`m glad to hear they downsized on that one.

Out to Trisha in Texas. Hi, Trisha.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good evening. I was calling to ask if maybe there was a tox screen done on her because of her actions. And also the difference between her pictures, maybe there was a methamphetamine problem there.

GRACE: OK. Was there a what screen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Toxicology.

GRACE: Did you say toxicology screen?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

GRACE: Good idea. Bob Hazen, do we know anything about that?

HAZEN: ... anything about that. That`s something -- right now, police are being very tight-lipped about all of that kind of aspects of this. What`s in the affidavits is all they`re putting out there at the time. So as far as what kind of tests they have run, we don`t know about that.

GRACE: Well, Mike Brooks, let`s talk about it just a moment. A toxicology test -- I think she -- that`s not a bad point. But the reality is that she drove 900 miles to carry out this foiled attempt at a possible murder. So I don`t know if -- I don`t know if that`s cohesive with the facts.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: I don`t know that it`s going to play into it at all, Nancy. But if you look at when she printed out the maps of how to get to the woman`s house, the detailed maps of Orlando, she did that -- and of the airport -- on January 23. She was planning this out, Nancy.

And if you also look at some of the facts of probable cause of why they charged her with attempted first degree murder while armed, she registered at the hotel a number of miles away from the airport with a false name, a false address, and paid in cash.

And as Jean says, her problems are not just in Orlando. She`s now probably being investigated by the NCIS, Naval Criminal Investigative Squad -- Service -- for violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. She is an officer in the United States military, active duty. She is a captain. The man who she was allegedly having an affair with is a commander. There could be a fraternization problem, conduct unbecoming an officer and many, many other charges that she could face under the military rules.

GRACE: Out to you, Bob Hazen with 580 WDBO radio. Do you believe that there will be stalking charges?

HAZEN: It`s certainly possible, coming this far as she did to get here. We`ve also got to think back on one thing. We don`t exactly know when she arrived in Orlando. That`s kind of a point that`s been missed throughout this whole thing. We know she drove these 900 miles, but Orlando police have not said when they think she got here. Obviously, she had enough time to check into this hotel. But this brings us to another point with these diapers. The assumption has always been...

GRACE: What is it with you and the diapers?

HAZEN: Well, the assumption has always been that she wore these diapers in order to make it here faster. Right now, Orlando police are starting to think more along the lines she wore those diapers in order to not have to pull over and not have to make any more extra contact with people along the way, so that she could be a little more incognito on her trip to Orlando.

GRACE: Very quickly to the lawyers, Randy Zelin and Jason Oshins. In my mind, Jason Oshins, the premeditation is piling up. You`ve got her there under an assumed name, running out Mapquest days before, a long time to travel and premeditate en route, purchasing the mallet, getting the gun, you name it, Jason.

OSHINS: Everything always looks worse in the very beginning when something comes out. The reality is, is that this highly decorated hero to the United States, right, an astronaut, suffered some sort of...

GRACE: What do you mean, things look worse in the beginning? This only gets worse as you go on!

OSHINS: No, when the information comes out, it hits you much harder, and once you have the ability...

GRACE: Once they`re (INAUDIBLE) through it?

OSHINS: ... to work through the information -- when you work through it...

GRACE: Work through it.

OSHINS: ... you`re able to show the fact that she had this breakdown, it seems...

GRACE: OK, a breakdown.

OSHINS: ... easier to work the best defense...

GRACE: Funny, Zelin, talking about a breakdown -- as Oshins is going forward with that theory, NASA scientists say she wasn`t unstable. Who should we believe, her or NASA?

OSHINS: She hasn`t been evaluated mentally...

GRACE: That was to Randy.

OSHINS: ... Since she got into the -- sorry, Nancy.

ZELIN: Well, the problem is, as NASA concedes, they don`t test before mission, they don`t test after. So I would throw that test out. The issue becomes premeditation. I say no. Loss of control, a woman who snapped? Absolutely. There is no evidence to suggest...

GRACE: OK, you know what...

ZELIN: ... that she planned to kill this girl.

GRACE: ... Randy? I`m expecting a little more out of you and Jason tonight because we all know that "She snapped" is not a defense under the law. There is no "snapped" defense.

ZELIN: Extreme emotional disturbance.

GRACE: OK. We`ll pick it up when we get back.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert." The transportation Security Administration teams up to find missing children, now providing Amber Alerts at airports all across the country, photos of the missing now on airport monitors. Over two million travelers a day will now see our country`s missing children, this move to counteract kidnappers using airports as a means of transporting kidnapped children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": All right, here we go. Top 10 signs an astronaut is trying to kill you. Number 10, says, This is a giant leap for mankind, as she tosses you off a bridge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa!

LETTERMAN: Number 9, you turn on CNN and see the Hubble telescope focusing on your house.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.

LETTERMAN: Number 8, she promises to take you out like Pluto. Number 7, it sounds crazy, but you could swear Mars is following you. Number 6, you were on the "Maury" episode "I Had a Booty Call and Now an Astronaut Is Trying to Kill Me." I have no idea what that means.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was way above my head.

LETTERMAN: Number 5, her previous attempts to kill you have been postponed due to high winds. Number 4, she poisoned your Tang. That`s the last thing you want to do is get a hold of some bad Tang.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Especially in space.

LETTERMAN: Yes. Exactly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But if you have a diaper on...

LETTERMAN: Thank you. Number 3, she says she looks forward to being the first to walk on your lifeless corpse. Number 2, been getting threatening e-mails from Connie at Internationalspacestation.com. And the number 1 sign an astronaut is trying to kill you, she keeps stabbing you with a pen that writes upside-down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Legal analyst David Letterman, analyzing the case against Lisa Nowak as we know it now.

But you`ve got to admit it, Jean, it`s pretty tough when somebody walks up and goes, Hi, can I talk to you? I`ve got my mallet and my pepper spray, my plastic gloves and my BB pistol.

CASAREZ: And I`m not going to say that I gave you that idea, but that is basically what prosecutors are saying happened right there. And along with that, in her car were all of these maps printed out by the computer. But the map to the alleged victim Shipman`s home was a handwritten map. That`s something prosecutors are going to use.

GRACE: And the significance of that?

CASAREZ: Well, the handwritten note is exceptional because she had to think about it and plan it, maybe even drive to the home after she arrived in Orlando. We don`t know yet.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She was a sweet, happy girl, very focused on her studies, valedictorian of her high school, a focused individual, just something that you wouldn`t expect to have an event like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: What happened to a NASA astronaut now facing charges of attempted murder?

Out to the lines. Pat in Indiana. Hi, Pat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Since she doesn`t have a previous criminal record, couldn`t she claim crime of passion as a defense?

GRACE: She certainly could. Explain how it would work, Jason.

OSHINS: I`m not even going to go that route of crime of passion. I`m not going to even approach it from that end. I`m going to go with her mental...

GRACE: OK, you do it, then, Randy. Hit it.

ZELIN: A loss of control. It`s not insanity, it`s not excluding criminal responsibility, but it is explaining at some level why it is someone does what they do, and it lessens the degree of culpability.

GRACE: OK. Putting it in a nutshell -- gee, you`re kind of sounding like a lawyer, Randy Zelin and Jason Oshins. Crime of passion boils down to manslaughter. When you are angry or acting out of immense emotional trauma, very often, the law will give you a pass on murder one. I think Pat in Indiana is dead on. If this goes to trial, I could see that happening, a crime of passion.

To you, Lucy in New York. Hi, Lucy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m a disabled veteran, and my curiosity is, was that computer she used on base or off base?

GRACE: You know, Lucy, I`m so happy you asked that -- to you, Jean Casarez -- because my question was, I read it was a government computer.

CASAREZ: That`s right. So there you have another crime possibly that could be charged against Lisa Nowak because this is a government computer. We believe it was used by the Navy commander, the love interest in this, and she allegedly got e-mails off that computer.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The defendant had in her possession a black bag, which possessed a steel mallet, a buck knife that measured four inches in length, and a BB gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What we have up here is a desperate woman who wants to have a conversation with the other woman. But she doesn`t shoot her; she doesn`t stab her; she doesn`t do anything. And there`s no evidence that she intended to do anything other than have a talk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A NASA astronaut facing charges of attempted murder. Over what? A man. That`s right, over a love triangle. According to prosecutors, Lisa Nowak drove 900 long miles to confront her love object`s girlfriend.

Out to you, Bob Hazen with 580 WDBO, why is the love object, Oefelein, why is he on paid leave?

BOB HAZEN, NEWS REPORTER, WDBO RADIO: He actually took that leave on his own, according to NASA. He came out here to Florida, to the Kennedy Space Center, and has been talking with officials out there. And also we`ve learned that an Orlando investigator has gone out to the Kennedy Space Center and met with Mr. Oefelein, as well, trying to sort out what actually went down here and trying to put together a little bit better picture of this relationship.

GRACE: Interesting. To you, Andrea Macari, clinical psychologist, Dr. Macari, does it change the dynamic, when people work together in a very high-stress job, like in an emergency room, or overseas in Iraq, or in battle in Vietnam? How does that change the dynamic between them?

ANDREA MACARI, INSTRUCTOR OF PSYCHOLOGY: Well, anytime you have an emotionally charged work environment, you`re going to have very intense passion that goes back and forth. However, Nancy, William has never come out saying that he had a relationship with this woman, so I don`t see any evidence to suggest that her fantasy that they were involved really is based in reality.

GRACE: Is there any evidence to support an actual relationship? Out to you, Michael Shiloh. What do we know about their relationship?

MICHAEL SHILOH, INVESTIGATOR REPORTER: What we know is what she put in the report herself, what she told the cops at the time, was that this is more than a friend but less than a lover, along those lines.

GRACE: More than a friend, less than a lover. That is what she said. What can you tell us about Oefelein being on paid leave?

SHILOH: Oh, about being on paid leave, well, he`s going to apparently have a little bit of an investigation done on himself, from what my sources have been telling me.

But you have to remember, this man is a hero to a lot of people. You know, 41-year-old, former top gun, good-looking fellow, I`m sure the ladies would agree. This man is going to be the center of attention for quite some time.

GRACE: Mr. Shiloh, Lady Justice is blind. I don`t care what he looks like or what she looks like. And I don`t care if they`re astronauts. What I care about is that victim getting mace in the face and someone holding one of these pointed at her at the time of this confrontation.

But what do you mean he, Oefelein, may be facing an investigation of his own, Mr. Shiloh?

SHILOH: Well, it`s part of the investigation that`s ongoing for Lisa Marie Nowak. I didn`t mean to say there would be a separate investigation necessarily.

GRACE: You know what? I couldn`t be happier. I look up to astronauts; they`ve always been heroes. And, to me, this is stunning. So I`m glad to hear that Oefelein is not under investigation.

Speaking of the incident, what else do we know, Jean Casarez?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, from the charging affidavit -- and that`s what I like to go from, because we see the facts as they are alleged by the police and the prosecution -- says that she had all the weapons with her -- and we`re talking about the steel mallet, and the knife, and that BB gun -- because she wanted to scare Miss Shipman, are the words police are saying Nowak used, and that if Shipman would not talk with her, she was going to, quote, "use the BB gun" to force Miss Shipman to talk with her.

GRACE: OK, not looking good from a defense perspective. OK, let`s get it together. Got a brand-new mallet. I`d like to know, did she buy the mallet --this thing is heavy -- expressly for this purpose? You know, Jean?

CASAREZ: I`ve got that answer, yes.

GRACE: Hit me.

CASAREZ: The packaging from a brand-new mallet was found in her car. And the packaging, from what you have in your hand, which is a knife, was also found according to police in her car.

GRACE: Mommy. OK. Got to have one of these when you take your 900- mile road trip in your diapers. You must have a buck knife. Need it. OK. And who would ever travel to Orlando, Florida, without a BB pistol?

You know, it`s looking worse and worse for the defense. But to hear the defense attorney in court, you`d think it was all a piece of cake.

Back out to you, Mike Brooks. With an arsenal like this, what do you think she really intended to do? Her signal was she was trying to make the victim talk to her.

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE: I tell you what, it sounded like she wanted to do a lot more than just talk with this woman, Nancy. When you have a mallet, what was she goes to use a mallet, was she going to use that to break the window in? You know, she was going to get in her car. What does that tell you?

She was going to make her drive somewhere, and then she was going to take off everything, put it in a bag, and then go back to her hotel. You know, what her plan was -- it was more than just talking to her, Nancy.

And the other thing, Nancy, what`s with the cover over the head? Everybody knows what she looks like, for God`s sakes. You know, come on. You know, everybody`s got her picture. It just makes her look even worse.

GRACE: Now here`s a scary picture, this close to the president. Yes, that`s her right beside President Bush.

BROOKS: Good she didn`t have a gun with her.

GRACE: How did that happen? Out to the lines. Laura in Michigan. Hi, Laura.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy. Love your show.

GRACE: Thank you, dear.

CALLER: I have a question for you. Were they actually lovers or was it all in her mind?

GRACE: You know, that`s a big question. I`ve grilled all the reporters. We`ve researched it all day long since this broke yesterday. And so far there`s no evidence that Lisa Nowak had an intimate relationship with Oefelein, none whatsoever. In fact, he was dating the alleged victim.

What can you tell us about her, Jean Casarez?

CASAREZ: You know, we don`t know much about her. She`s with the military. I believe it`s the U.S. Army that she`s with, and we just really don`t know. We do know she`s not with NASA, though. We know that, whereas the victim, Nowak, and the naval officer, the male involved, they were both with NASA.

GRACE: Bob Hazen, this is not a diaper question, so I don`t know if you`re going to want it or not. But what can you tell me about the alleged victim?

HAZEN: The victim is Colleen Shipman. She lives in Brevard County, near where the Kennedy Space Center is. She is in the Air Force. She`s a captain in the Air Force. And in the statement that she`s made, in the restraining order especially, she refers to what we assume is Mr. Oefelein as her boyfriend, and refers to Nowak as an acquaintance of her boyfriend. We know that about her. She at least knows him.

Also, we have learned that she, according to her neighbors, was very excited when the last shuttle went up, which Mr. Oefelein was the pilot of, that she would talk about that flight and, to some extent, her boyfriend. But since then, since this incident broke out, she has completely disappeared. We haven`t been able to see hide or hair of her, so we have no idea what her actual take on this whole situation is right now.

GRACE: Out to the lines, Maureen in Massachusetts. Hi, dear.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy.

GRACE: What`s your question?

CALLER: My question is, how did the victim get away from Lisa Nowak?

GRACE: You know, Maureen, just as I was waiting to go to you, I was imagining the victim sitting in that car and rolling the window down. You know, out to you, Andrea Macari, I would probably roll the window down for another lady in a parking lot alone that looked distressed.

MACARI: Well, I think most of us would. But in this case, Colleen Shipman felt her behind her. She thought something was up. She could hear the defendant running behind her, so she had a feeling something was up. And that`s why she wouldn`t roll down the window initially. But once she started crying, I guess she felt bad. Your instinct is to help. And, unfortunately, she did the wrong thing.

GRACE: Is there any possibility, Dr. Macari, that she did dream up this whole relationship? And I would put dollars to donuts on it that, knowing her, she would have a list somewhere on her laptop, on her main frame outlining every move she planned to make.

MACARI: Yes, I would agree with you. I am not a gambling girl, Nancy, but I would bet a whole lot that this is a case of a delusional disorder. Think John Mark Karr, same situation.

GRACE: Oh, please, I don`t want to think about John Mark Karr any more than I already have.

Very quickly, to tonight`s "Case Alert," a Wisconsin woman who took in eight orphan children, tonight she`s lost everything after a deadly fire destroyed their home. Brenda Olson and her son, Gary, Jr., dedicated themselves to young children, raising them for over 25 years, children with disabilities so severe they were called un-adoptable, even by a judge. Two of the children, now 33 and 36, killed in that blaze. Tonight, they need your help.

Donations by check to the Brenda Oleson family at Bank North, PO Box 220, Goodman, Wisconsin, 54125. Or call 715-336-2322.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWSBREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... with rhinoplasty, there were essentially no risks from a health perspective.

TALLY GLISKO, MOR GLISKO`S MOTHER: Doctors saw me panicking. Tally, don`t worry, nothing happens with your daughter. And then (INAUDIBLE) came, and shake my daughter hand, shake my hand, and she go to the surgery room. I hug her; I kiss her. I say, "I`m waiting for you outside." But I didn`t know that it`s going to be the last time that I`m hugging her and kiss her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: A teenager heads to a ritzy Park Avenue for a routine nose job. She ends up dead. And this is not a quest for vanity. This young girl, this teenager, had been in an awful car crash, and she wanted to look the way she did before the crash. It was a very, very bad crash.

Out to Jose Martinez with the "New York Daily News." What happened?

JOSE MARTINEZ, REPORTER, "NEW YORK DAILY NEWS": Good evening, Nancy. What you had here was a young lady who, in November of 2006, passed away, Mor Glisko, 18 years old, a student at Brooklyn College, really a beautiful young lady.

A year earlier, before the operation, she had been in a car accident. And as her mother described to me, she wanted to look as she had before. And so, from morning to night, she would ask her parents for this procedure. She wanted to have her nose returned to how it was.

And she went in, in November. Her mother left her for 15 minutes to grab a cup of coffee. When she returned, she discovered a horrific scene, and her daughter died a day later, the day before Thanksgiving.

GRACE: And it was a simple, a routine rhinoplasty, right, Jean? What else can you tell me?

CASAREZ: It was. Well, we know there were two doctors. There was a certified plastic surgeon, also an anesthesiologist. But no cause of death, it is believed, was established because the family, as per their religious beliefs, did not want an autopsy.

GRACE: You know, to Dr. Daniel Spitz, medical examiner, joining us from Michigan, Dr. Spitz, she went from a routine rhinoplasty, a nose job. She ended up going to the hospital. I didn`t know a hospital could just let a dead body leave without giving a cause of death.

DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Well, you know, it would be referred to the medical examiner. And the medical examiner would make the ultimate decision.

Now, the medical examiners often consult with the families to get their -- you know, to let them know what their plans are. And in this case, the family stated that they were very much against an autopsy. And, unfortunately, the medical examiner granted their request to not do the autopsy, which leaves, unfortunately, many questions unanswered.

GRACE: That was pursuant to their religious beliefs. Joining me right now is Mor Glisko`s mom, a very special guest joining us tonight, Tally Glisko.

Ms. Glisko, when you left -- first of all, I can`t tell you how beautiful and lovely your daughter seems, and we are so sorry for your loss. It`s amazing to me you left for a cup of coffee and you come back -- when you came back into the doctor`s office, Ms. Glisko, what was happening?

GLISKO: When I came to the doctor office, I see nothing but a scary silence. So immediately I began to ask, "Where is Mor? Everything is OK?"

But everything was in the very wrong way. The doctor came out and told me that my daughter heart stopped beating. And the second thing, I began to cry, to say I want to see her, I want to hug her, and then policemen and firemen, everybody was holding me, running me to the floor. Nobody let me to see my daughter, until I came to the hospital. Everybody would separate me from her.

GRACE: When you got to the hospital, what did the doctors tell you?

GLISKO: When I got to the hospital, I was alone with nobody, and nobody talked to me. Just I cried and said, "Please, one of the doctors, tell me what happened." But they told that nobody has an answer to me, what happened with my daughter. Just when my husband came, after a while, they let me to go in, and I see that she connected to the breathing machine. But until the end, I didn`t have any answer, until the end. Until now I don`t know what happened.

GRACE: The doctors never told you why she died?

GLISKO: Nobody told me. Nobody told me what happened. Yoel Shahar blamed James Penso (ph), the anesthesia doctor. And the other doctor blamed the other doctor. So you know what? Until now, I (INAUDIBLE)

GRACE: Joining us also from New York, Dr. Minas Constantinides. Doctor, thank you for being with us. He is the director of plastic and reconstructive surgery at NYU Medical Center. Doctor, what are the risks of a simple nose job in a doctor`s office?

MINAS CONSTANTINIDES, NYU MEDICAL CENTER: Well, Nancy, there really is no such thing as a simple plastic surgery. Everyone thinks that a nose job is something very simple, but, just like any plastic surgical procedure, it has significant risks.

The main risks that we worry about, that are most frequent, are new nasal obstruction or just an adverse outcome, something we don`t quite like the result of. But there are more significant risks that we have to talk about extensively. There is bleeding that can occur, both during and after surgery. There are possible problems with breathing during surgery that the team has to be ready to address. And there are rare risks, like anesthesia effects or complication, that`s can lead to really significant, life-threatening problems.

GRACE: What do you mean by anesthesia risks?

CONSTANTINIDES: Well, for example, a previously undiagnosed drug reaction could occur. Too much anesthesia might be given early on in the case and the patient might have some trouble breathing. And if the team doesn`t recognize that, then that could lead to additional problems.

And, finally, there are respiratory risks in young people. Sometimes their breathing can be -- they can undergo something called a pulmonary edema, just from having a surgery like this.

GRACE: Dr. Daniel Spitz, agree or disagree?

SPITZ: Very much agree. Certainly, in this case, it looks like anesthesia seems to be the biggest problem. Unfortunately, the autopsy not being done, I`m not sure if toxicology was done, but without the autopsy you`re still going to have a lot of unanswered questions.

GRACE: So to you, Jose Martinez with the "Daily News," where do we stand?

MARTINEZ: The family`s looking for answers. Right now, they`re preparing to file a lawsuit in state Supreme Court here in New York, and they`re awaiting to see what the state health department will do, and hoping ultimately for some sanctions against the physician here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CASAREZ: Today is a very special day for Nancy Grace, and we want you all to know about it. Today is her 10-year anniversary at Court TV news. For 10 years, she has been giving such exquisite legal analysis. We love you at Court TV, Nancy Grace. We want you to know that. We`ve got a tribute for you right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: One day I got a call from Court TV to join their forces. I moved to New York with $200, two boxes of clothes, and one curling iron. And I`ve been cold since 1997, cold but happy at Court TV.

There are two felonies to consider: aggravated assault and arson.

You only get the presumption of innocence once you get to court. I believe that`s what the law...

JOHNNY COCHRAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, no, I think he has it all the way up to the time the jury convicts him.

GRACE: To me, this is too coincidental. Unless somebody can tell me what all those cars were doing there, I`m suspicious that they were involved in this lynching.

REVEREND JESSE JACKSON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: For good reason.

GRACE: Three, two, one, blastoff.

And what you don`t want to talk about is the victim. Excuse me, sir.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: There is just -- I love the law. I love trial. I love trying cases. I love watching cases, analyzing cases. It gives me energy. It`s not a job to me.

Let`s just get down to the brass tacks.

So this is total crap.

I did buy a dozen Krispy Kreme donuts on Cosmo.com recently. Well, you may call it a colorful character. Where I come from, it`s called a felony.

Deal with it. This is the law.

Drastically, a gag order, quick.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRACE: Thanks.

Let`s turn our legal discussion around to remember Army Specialist Kenneth Haines, 25, Fulton, New York, killed, Iraq, second tour of duty. He enlisted straight from high school. A star wrestler, varsity football, loved tuba and jazz. Purple Heart, Bronze Star, leaves behind Dad, three brothers, a sister. Kenneth Haines, American hero.

Thank you for joining us tonight. NANCY GRACE signing off. Good night, friend.

END

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