Skip to main content
U.S. Edition
Search
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


 

Return to Transcripts main page

NANCY GRACE

Gunman in Colorado Takes Students Hostage; What Do Melinda Duckett`s Suicide Notes Tell About Baby Trenton`s Whereabouts?

Aired September 27, 2006 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, live to Colorado. Just 39 miles from the Columbine school massacre, a gunman puts four schools in lockdown, claiming to be armed with a bomb inside Platte Canyon high school.
And tonight, live to Florida, a parent`s worst nightmare, a 2-year-old tucked into his crib, mom in the very next room with a video, then claims the window screen slashed, the baby gone. Then the mom commits suicide, and police almost immediately declare her the prime suspect. What do Melinda Duckett`s three suicide notes tell us about the whereabouts of baby Trenton? Tonight, a look at the crime scene.

But first, live to Colorado. Breaking news on the high school hostage situation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect shot one of the hostages, then shot himself. I have not yet gotten to talk to the family of the female student that was shot, but my prayers are with the family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Good evening, everyone. I`m Nancy Grace. Thank you for being with us tonight. Apparently, one student shot. Now breaking news out of Colorado. To Roger Hudson with 850 KOA News Radio. Roger, thank you for being with us. What happened?

ROGER HUDSON, 850 KOA NEWS RADIO: You know, Nancy, this has been such a horrible and heart-wrenching story, parents scrambling to this high school earlier today. We got an initial call at about 11:40 that there was someone firing shots inside of this high school, Platte Canyon high school, very small, very secluded, in Bailey, Colorado. And then we`re told that several hostages -- we`re now told six girls -- initially taken into a classroom, and this individual, this man, this still unknown man, from what I`m hearing from law enforcement, claiming that he had a bomb in his backpack.

And then this hostage situation began and kind of unfolded, where we had hostages yelling down hallways to sheriff`s deputies, asking for demands, making more demands, and then giving a deadline of 4:00 o`clock before he was going to started killing the two remaining female hostages inside the school. And as you know and you just reported, sadly, one of those females shot in the head. Still unclear whether or not that -- whether this gunman shot this girl or maybe even SWAT deputies, when they did a tactical explosion, breaking into this classroom through a barricade, trying to save both these girls.

GRACE: The girl was shot in the head?

HUDSON: Absolutely. We have a reporter at the hospital. We`re waiting for the family to come forward in the next 30 minutes and tell us her condition. I will tell you that what I heard from a friend at the hospital, that she -- when she arrived by helicopter, grave condition. I had heard -- and again, this is unconfirmed -- that she has passed away, and that would explain why this 36-year veteran of the sheriff`s department here in Colorado broke down in tears at this news conference (INAUDIBLE) I was standing behind him, being supported by fellow deputies, as he was just shaking with grief, a horrible thing for him, and of course, this family currently at the hospital.

GRACE: That is unconfirmed at this juncture. We are speaking with Roger Hudson from 850 KOA News Radio. Very disturbing news that a child at the school has been shot and dead -- Roger telling us tonight that she is dead. We`re waiting to confirm that. Back out to you, Roger. What can you tell us about these demands allegedly made?

HUDSON: You know, and that`s what`s so odd about this, is the sheriff talked to us about this today. He never made his demands clear. He never said he needed this, he wanted this. He just kept talking through one of these hostages, one of these AP honors students -- 16 years was the average mean age of these girls -- yelling demands down at sheriff`s deputies. They tried to offer him a cell phone. He turned that down. They tried to find out what he wanted to be able to give him whatever it was, and they could never make, you know, specific details.

What makes this so incredibly intense is this is -- the sheriff -- the sheriff`s deputies, the same SWAT team that responded to Columbine high school. And following that story, the deputies that responded, Jefferson County, they were criticized so heavily for not responding quick enough, that we had students leaning themselves out of classrooms, out of the library windows. And so here they responded more aggressively, these same sheriff`s deputies, going in before that 4:00 o`clock hour, doing a tactical explosion of this barricade and charging into this room.

So you have kind of one scenario and the other scenario, completely different tactical responses, one maybe not too fast and maybe one too fast. The sheriff, of course, crying in tears, saying that we would find out later on tonight, you know, what happened and more details, maybe even finding out details of who this guy is, the sheriff saying they just don`t know.

GRACE: Roger, how did the guy get into the school to start with?

HUDSON: You know, and that`s a big question, too. I talked to some of the staff. They say he just walked in. The first thing he did was fire a shot in this classroom, so there was at least one shot fired while there was a classroom full of students. There was a quick evacuation where all of these students made it out into the parking lot, later being bussed to an elementary school about a mile away.

But they don`t know exactly. He walked in, fired the shots and started making demands, releasing these girls, these six girls individually, almost teasing law enforcement, and then finally holding the two before he finally barricaded himself in, saying that there was a deadline of 4:00 o`clock, not giving any specifics, frustrating the SWAT members, and that`s when they exploded with this tactical device.

GRACE: Roger, do we have any idea whether this guy was a parent or affiliated with the school in any way?

HUDSON: We don`t know. And again, you know, I hate -- I hate to say rumor and innuendo, but I have heard from a staff member inside the school that they believe -- at least this staff member believes that they have seen this gentleman before, that they know who he is, law enforcement saying that`s untrue, that at this point in time, they can`t confirm his identity.

As far as I heard, the last check, his body`s still inside the school, as we have Colorado Bureau of Investigation coming in to be able to -- to really be able to map out this crime scene to find out exactly what happened. But no, we don`t have answers to so many questions, other than what a traumatic thing to have happen in a small little mountainside town of Colorado, so close to where the Columbine shootings took place.

GRACE: With us, Roger Hudson from 850 KOA News Radio, giving us the latest out of Colorado, another school shooting, this time by an unidentified adult male who goes into the school with a backpack, claiming he has a bomb strapped to himself. Tonight, unconfirmed report from Roger Hudson that this young girl, a student there that was shot in the head during all of this, has passed away. We`re still trying -- working to confirm that. From St. Anthony`s Hospital, their spokesperson is saying, At the request of the family, the hospital is not commenting at this time regarding the status of the young girl.

Roger, tell me again -- OK, we don`t know how the guy got in. We don`t believe he had a bomb on him. My question is, how did the girl get shot?

HUDSON: You know, and that`s again the timeline that they`re trying to work through. Before that 4:00 o`clock deadline, because he was barricaded into this honors English classroom on the second floor, the SWAT team made a decision, because this gunman, this man claiming to have a bomb, was not communicating with them -- they had heard rumors that there was something else going on in that classroom, and to protect them, to make it before that 4:00 o`clock deadline, they aggressively...

GRACE: What did they fear was going on in the classroom?

HUDSON: There had been reports that there were things that were going on to these girls, that they was some kind of assault going on.

GRACE: OK.

HUDSON: Again, this is unconfirmed, and I`m not -- I have not got a law enforcement...

GRACE: OK.

HUDSON: ... -sheriff to tell me this is the case. But I heard from a PD officer that heard scanner traffic that says that they were very concerned about these girls, not only because he had a gun but because there was something traumatic happening to them inside of this classroom. And because of that, the SWAT team making a decision, from what I`m hearing from the sheriff, Sheriff Wagner (ph), this afternoon, that they made a decision to be aggressive and to go into that classroom.

The sheriff kind of contradicting himself at different reports, saying at one point, that he shot the girl in the head and then took -- and this was his words, the sheriff`s words -- took the coward`s way out, shooting himself. And then sheriff`s deputies were able to get that second girl, the other hostage, out and get her to safety, and she`s now currently with her family and talking to investigators. But also, the sheriff saying that they just don`t know, that there was so much activity that anything is possible. And these are the questions that they`re going to try to find out in the next couple days.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... still somewhat shocked that this can happen in a rural county. What we had was, we had an armed gunman that entered into Platte Canyon high school, went into one of the classrooms and took several kids hostage.

-- tried to talk to this individual and were having some success with the member of my department. He started to release hostages, released them one at a time. Eventually, he gave us a deadline of 4:00 o`clock -- this happened about 15:30, somewhere along there -- and ceased talking to the negotiators. It was then decided that a tactical solution needed to be done in an effort to save the two hostages that were in the room.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Just 39 miles from the Columbine school massacre, yet another school takeover, an adult male shooter in the -- in the school, claiming to be strapped to a bomb. Now a 16-year-old girl possibly dead there at the hospital. From St. Anthony`s Hospital tonight at the request of the family, the hospital not commenting.

Joining us right now, a special guest from the Colorado Department of Public Safety, Lance Clem. Sir, thank you for being with us. Why wasn`t the perp negotiated out? What went wrong? What broke down in the negotiations?

LANCE CLEM, COLORADO DEPT. OF PUBLIC SAFETY: Well, I really couldn`t tell you too much about that. The sheriff was the one who made the comment on it. We`ve been working from Denver here and trying to collect information as it comes in. And I believe I heard the sheriff say that for some reason or another, reasons unknown, the suspect just simply wouldn`t go any further, wouldn`t deal with them.

GRACE: Right. Back to Roger Hudson with 850 KOA News Radio. Roger, did they actually have hostage negotiations? How far did they get? And what went wrong?

HUDSON: What I`m being told by the sheriff is that they were communicating with this man, this unnamed, unidentified individual, through one of the hostages, that they were literally screaming down the hall. And he was uncooperative, exactly as Lance Clem was just talking about. He was just uncooperative and would not give specific demands, other than giving this arbitrary 4:00 o`clock deadline, this ominous black cloud. And what I`m being told is that SWAT members made the decision that they had no other choice but to do a tactical explosion and break into that barricade.

GRACE: Let`s go to the lines. Sara in Texas. Hi, Sara.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

GRACE: What`s your question, dear?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, what is the attraction between gunmen and schools? I mean, there`s no money there. There`s nothing valuable there. And I also want to pray for the family of the girl that was shot. I just want to know what the attraction is with schools and gunmen. I have a 4-year-old and 6-year-old who goes to school, and I just don`t know the what I`d do if something like that happened. What`s the attraction to it?

GRACE: You know, Sara, I don`t know, and we see it happening over and over and over. And the difference, Sara in Texas, in this shooting and other school shootings is that they have been by students within those schools, where they go to school, they may hate a teacher, they may hate a clique of students, they may feel like outcasts. But this is an adult male.

Out to Lillian Glass, psychologist, joining us. Lillian, we have not been able to establish a connection between the shooter and the school. So I agree with Sara. What is the connection? Why go into a school? I mean, this is children.

LILLIAN GLASS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, it`s a power play, because they`re children, this is an adult. Somebody that`s incompetent and has no power of their own, they`re in essence taking power over with children. And so this is their way of acting out.

GRACE: Back to Roger Hudson with 850 KOA News Radio. So all of the students are out now. Are any of them still in lockdown?

HUDSON: No, there`s not. The entire school had been evacuated. There are two schools that are very close to each other, a high school and a middle school. All were evacuated during the last hour of this very traumatic event in this very small town, except the gunman and the two girls. And as we know, that has now concluded. I`m told that the CBI -- Lance Clem is associated with them -- is currently on the scene, trying to do ballistics and figure out exactly what happened. But no, no one is still in lockdown.

But very traumatized. This is a very small town up in the hills outside of Denver, very quiet, very sleepy. This is the place that you would stop to get gas or to retire in, not to attend a shooting or think that you were unsafe.

GRACE: Back to Lance Clem with the Colorado Department of Public Safety. How exactly is it that the assailant was ultimately killed?

CLEM: Well, that`s not clear, either. We initially got reports that the SWAT team was responsible for that. The sheriff said that the suspect killed himself, shot himself in the head. So we`re not real sure about that...

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: OK, what about it, Roger? Can you shed any light on that?

HUDSON: I can`t. It`s -- you know, Lance is with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, and they`re, of course, investigating that. That`s why they were brought in. The sheriff saying contradicting statements. I mean, he did say this gunman took the coward`s way out, but he also said, We just don`t know, we`re connecting the dots.

GRACE: And another thing, about this school, big, small? Was it in a complex of other schools? And what were the grades of students there?

HUDSON: Very small. It was a high school. So it`s grade 9 through 12, very small. Again, this is maybe 400 students. There were eight buses that evacuated the students out of these two schools. And as they passed me, you could look at the kids` faces. I mean, these are teenagers, pre- teens, young kids, and they looked just -- their eyes were as big as saucers. They were just -- even though they weren`t in that classroom, you could tell that this was a life-changing moment for them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have not yet gotten to talk to the family of the female student that was shot, but my prayers are with the family. She was transported by air life -- or excuse me, flight for life to St. Anthony`s Central in critical condition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Entry was made. The suspect shot one of the hostages, then shot himself. That`s what it looks like at this time. The investigation is still ongoing. I don`t know the identity of the gunman at this time. I don`t know why he wanted to do this. Hopefully, the investigation will reveal that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: An adult male assailant in a high school just 39 miles from the Columbine school massacre today. Tonight, we are hearing he may have claimed the life of a 16-year-old female student, likely an honors student.

Straight out to Mike Brooks, formerly with the FBI terrorism task force. How do law enforcement make a decision to try and negotiate?

MIKE BROOKS, FORMER D.C. POLICE, SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Well, Nancy, you know, this -- as a former hostage negotiator and a tactical team member myself, I can tell you this is a situation you hope never ends like this. You always hope for a negotiated surrender. And you always try to make contact, but apparently, he was not talking directly with negotiators. They offered him a phone. He would not take a phone. They offered him a throw phone. But he only would talk to negotiators through one of the hostages, and apparently had a hostage in front of himself, shielding himself with this hostage during the whole time. An extremely difficult situation for both negotiators and the tactical team members there on the team.

GRACE: What`s a throw phone?

BROOKS: A throw phone is a phone you can take and have direct communications with the hostage taker, from the negotiators to him, with just a single wire.

GRACE: Mike, you`ve handled so many hostage situations yourself. What makes this different in my mind is this is not one of the students, like we had at Paducah, Kentucky, or Pearl, Mississippi, or Columbine. This is actually an adult male going into a high school facility and threatening to set off a bomb or open fire.

BROOKS: I tell you, you know, in the early stages of a negotiation like this, Nancy, you want to find out exactly why he`s there, what brought him, what happened in the last 24 hours that brought him to this situation. But right now, we still don`t know any motive whatsoever.

And you know, it was an extremely difficult situation that ended with a tactical resolution. There was something that happened after communications were cut off, and he made that demand at 4:00 o`clock, whatever that demand was. Apparently, the only demand he had been making before was police to back off. But something had to have happened that made that tactical commander decide to go ahead and make the dynamic entry and throw a flash-bang in and make entry into that room.

GRACE: And Mike, I can`t say it enough, how many times do we have to go through this situation? After Columbine, I don`t understand why metal detectors are not put when you enter a school. I don`t understand how this guy just walked into a school, not just in the school, Mike Brooks, but up to the second floor, where the honor students are sitting around. How did he infiltrate to that degree? You know, in the city of Atlanta, because of violence in the schools, not because of Columbine, there are metal detectors and security devices all over the place. And public schools are not happy about it. It`s not a good thing. But it beats the heck out of somebody coming into a school like this!

BROOKS: Well, you know, they put -- they put in measures such as metal detectors, magnetometers. You know, if there (ph) have been other incidents. But just as the sheriff says, this was a rural county and -- he was very emotional because he had been out there 36 years.

GRACE: Yes.

BROOKS: But you know, they have to make some kind of changes. Nancy. There -- you know, many schools do have security people that wander through the halls. But I can tell you, I`ve been in high schools where I`ve just walked in and walked through the halls myself. And I approached some guy one time. I said, Excuse me, can you tell me where the office is? He said, Well, I`m the principal. But never challenged. I was never challenged whatsoever.

Something has to be done. There were some changes, a lot of changes after Columbine, but a lot of places have become complacent again.

GRACE: Well, I don`t know what all these changes are you`re talking about because I have not seen them.

To Rebecca in Kentucky. Hi, Rebecca.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hello.

GRACE: Hi, dear. What`s your question?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is just what you were talking about. Why isn`t more being done with security for the schools? Because after Columbine, some places were talking about installing metal detectors. And if they did that, stuff like this wouldn`t happen.

GRACE: You know what? I was asking the same thing about the courthouse the other day down in Atlanta, where basically nothing has been done for security measures. Same thing with schools after Columbine.

We will be back with local reporters there in Colorado, as well as Mike Brooks. Please stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He broke off negotiations. He wouldn`t talk to the negotiator any more. So I think we were afraid for the worst. He actually at times at the beginning, the only way he would talk to us and I believe throughout, as far as when I was in there, he would only talk to us if he had a hostage. I think we just looked at the situation and his behavior becoming more and more agitated, and I think the really deciding factor is when he broke off negotiations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: An adult male enters a local school just 39 miles from the Columbine high school massacre, threatening a bomb.

Back to Roger Hudson with 850 KOA News Radio. What can you tell us as of right now? Do we have any update on the girl in the hospital, the 16- year-old girl?

HUDSON: I do not. We`re still waiting for the family to come out and make some kind of comment about her condition and about who she is. We still don`t know that. Of course, law enforcement can`t give us her identity. We`re expecting the family. Because it is a distance, an hour away from Denver and from the hospital, that the family being able to make their way there, being able to recoup and be able to get a spokesperson there and being able to make some kind of comment. But we`re expecting that in the next 10, 15 minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If anybody has any information, whether they think it`s important or not, just come to the police. They may have seen Melinda or Trenton, anything that could be helpful in the investigation. We`re just begging them to please come and come to the police, call the police, stay anonymous. If you have Trenton, drop him off at a hospital, a police station, a firefighter, stay anonymous. We don`t care. We want Trenton home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back, everyone. The search for 2-year-old Trenton Duckett goes on. We are live in Florida with the very latest. And here in our studios, Trenton`s father, Josh Duckett, is joining us.

But first of all, to "TV Guide" tonight. "TV Guide" has attacked our show for airing the Melinda Duckett interview when she had committed suicide that afternoon. But, oh, what a field day you would have, "TV Guide," if we had interviewed Melinda Duckett, caught her in those lies and vagaries, and then not aired the interview, hidden the interview, suppressed the truth.

But to you, "TV Guide," on this show, we don`t hide the truth. And unlike you, "TV Guide," Trenton Duckett is not just a story to us. Trenton Duckett is a little boy that we want to help bring home alive. The ink you wasted could have been used to publicize the 800 number to find this boy.

Right now to Jean Casarez for the very latest, Jean Casarez, joining us out of Florida, Court TV news correspondent. What is the latest, Jean?

JEAN CASAREZ, COURT TV: Well, Nancy, two media outlets in the Orlando, Florida, area today went before a judge in a court asking that all of the records of Trenton Duckett with the Department of Children and Family Services here in Florida be released to the public. And they said that, at this point, the rights of privacy are diminished because of the interest in this case and the public interest.

The court decided in the favor of the media outlets. They are going to be releasing all of the files. Only one file was released today because they agreed that the public safety interests and the interest in finding Trenton Duckett or leading to any information on him outweighs any interest in privacy at this point. However, they do need to get a release from the father in this case, Joshua Duckett.

GRACE: And speaking of Josh, he is here with us in our Manhattan studios. Thank you for traveling up. Is this the first time you`ve ever flown on a plane?

JOSH DUCKETT, FATHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: Yes.

GRACE: Were you afraid?

J. DUCKETT: Not really. I mean, my mind was on other things than just flying.

GRACE: Did you ever believe that you would be right here, right now trying to find your son?

J. DUCKETT: No, not at all. I mean, I never imagined anything like this happening to me.

GRACE: Josh, I want to hear what went through your mind when you first heard on the phone, "Trenton`s gone."

J. DUCKETT: I mean, all kinds of feelings. You kind of come to a halt in your own mind. I mean, it`s like a feeling that no one could ever imagine. I mean, it feels like somebody stuck a dagger in my stomach, I mean, because he`s my pride and joy. He`s what I lived for. And, I mean, to know that he`s gone and nobody knows where he`s at, I mean, it`s just a feeling I would never wish on anybody in my life.

GRACE: Liz, let`s take a look at the time line about what we know tonight. Bit by bit, this time line has been pieced together, but this is what we know about the custody case. And, Josh, tell me if any of this is incorrect.

April 6, `05, Josh accuses Melinda of self-mutilation and threatening to harm Trenton. What did you mean by that -- was that to the police or to Department of Family and Children Services? What do you mean by self- mutilation?

J. DUCKETT: To both of them, to the police department and the DCF offices. I mean, self-mutilation, she -- self-mutilation as far as cutting herself.

GRACE: Why?

J. DUCKETT: I have no idea. I mean, to me, to destroy your body is - - I mean, that shows some signs of instability. I mean...

GRACE: Did DFCS, Department of Family and Children Services, know about this?

J. DUCKETT: They knew about it. I told them. There`s reports of it. I mean, I told them everywhere that she had scars from it. I mean, her hips were covered in scars, her legs, her arms. I mean...

GRACE: When you went to bed at night, did you just lay there wondering if Trenton was going to be OK?

J. DUCKETT: Yes, I mean, that`s basically what went through my mind all hours of the night and day. I mean, if she`s willing to do that to herself, what`s she willing to do to somebody else?

GRACE: I mean, God knows I don`t mean disrespect for the dead, but the night when I first interviewed you, I asked you some very hard questions, and you answered them immediately. Did you ever ask Melinda these same questions I asked her, trying to get a time line or find out what really happened?

J. DUCKETT: No, I never had any communication with Melinda. I mean, I`ve tried to reach out to her -- I tried to reach out to her and her family, because we were supposed to all be working for the same cause. And I`ve gotten no response from her family even at this point. I mean, I`ve tried everything to my ability to reach out to them. And...

GRACE: Josh, do you mind taking calls from the viewers tonight?

J. DUCKETT: Yes, that`s fine.

GRACE: OK. Who do we have, Liz? Norma in Florida, hi, Norma.

CALLER: Hi, Nancy, how are you doing?

GRACE: I`m good. What`s your question, dear?

CALLER: I was wondering if the 911 tape has been analyzed by the FBI to see if they could pick up any conversations in the background to see if the mother of the child was actually coaching the gentleman that called.

GRACE: Interesting. I`m sure the FBI has taken a look at it, because they have been involved in it, but you can actually hear her say, "I know who friggin` did it."

J. DUCKETT: Yes. I mean, I`m sure they`ve analyzed it. I mean, I`m not sure if they found out if she was coaching the person calling or not. I mean...

GRACE: Let`s take a listen to it ourselves.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELINDA DUCKETT, LATE MOTHER OF TRENTON DUCKETT: Hello?

DISPATCHER: Hi, what is Trenton wearing, honey?

M. DUCKETT: I don`t know. He was ready for bed.

DISPATCHER: You don`t know what you dressed him in before he went to bed?

M. DUCKETT: He might have had his shoes off and or his shirt off, no shoes -- I know who friggin` did it.

DISPATCHER: No shoes, no shirt. He`s an Asian male.

M. DUCKETT: He`s wearing jean shorts. He`s 2 years old.

DISPATCHER: He`s wearing jean shorts.

M. DUCKETT: Yes.

DISPATCHER: And he`s 2 years old. And how long has he been gone?

M. DUCKETT: I don`t know.

DISPATCHER: You don`t know?

M. DUCKETT: I was watching a movie that was two hours long. I`ve checked on him before anyone came down to the house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: I notice that had she states, Dr. Lillian Glass, "I was watching a movie that was two hours long, and I checked on him before anyone came to the house."

GLASS: Right. That`s a little suspicious to me.

GRACE: Why?

GLASS: Well, it`s interesting. Just that she knew that the movie was exactly two hours. Who knows that?

The other thing that was very suspicious is you look at her voice quality. At first, she`s out of breath. Then, she`s distraught. And then she comes to. She`s very straightforward in the way she speaks and very -- I don`t know, you know -- she "ums" and "ands," and she just is very insecure about what she`s saying, and then she pulls it together.

GRACE: Well, especially, when we get to the clothing, like as if she were trying to think back. And who would put a kid to bed in shoes and socks?

GLASS: Right. When somebody is that distraught and saying, "Um, uh," and thinking about things, it doesn`t seem like they`re telling the truth. And one of the things that really concerned me in the tape was when the dispatcher said, "You don`t know what your boy was wearing when he went to sleep?" And she said -- she started hemming and hawing about it. That was quite a concern.

GRACE: Joining us there in Leesburg, Florida, Steph Watts, one of our show producers. He is on the scene where Trenton reportedly went missing. Steph, what have you learned?

STEPH WATTS, NANCY GRACE PRODUCER: Well, Nancy, a couple of interesting things. The first thing is, as I was at the house today, I wanted to tell you that it`s really the perfect place to commit a crime, but it`s also the perfect place to stage a crime. And I`ll tell you why.

The window was about chest height for me. So somebody could actually get in and out of the window. And there`s an empty parking lot or an empty lot right beside the house. And one thing I want to clear up is, it`s not an apartment, Nancy. It`s a condominium. It`s a single-story dwelling at the end of the row of units, so there`s a lot of privacy. And the garbage can is about 100 feet in the front of the house where they found some of Trenton`s items.

GRACE: Steph Watts is with us. He is one of our show`s producers. Steph, tell me about this window. How far up off the ground is it?

WATTS: Well, Nancy, it`s about chest height on me. I`m about 5`10", so it would be about I would say about five feet off the ground. But there is an air-conditioner right beside the window that`s about two feet off the ground. So you could get up on the air-conditioner and see right in the window or get in the window.

But the window is right beside the sliding glass doors into the living room. So it`s unlikely that you would be up on the air-conditioner or in that window without hearing it in the living room because it`s a small unit.

GRACE: And to Marilyn Aciego, joining us from the "Daily Commercial" there in Leesburg, Florida, Marilyn, we`ve been taking a look tonight at the custody battle documents and the DFCS documents, such as we have them. What can you tell us about the search? Is it being scaled back?

MARILYN ACIEGO, REPORTER, "DAILY COMMERCIAL": Yes, Nancy, the search is being scaled back. They are no longer going to hold press conferences each day and let the media know last night that the next time they call a press conference, it`s because they have something happening.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s been frustrating from the beginning, knowing a 24-month-old baby is out there somewhere. I know it`s very difficult for the families, and we want to find him and bring him home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Welcome back. The search for Trenton Duckett goes on. The 2- year-old boy allegedly taken out of his own home.

Let`s go out to Marc Klaas, president of Beyond Missing. Marc, you`ve been there. Here on the set with me -- we wish you were here, too, Marc Klaas -- is Josh Duckett. Now that police are scaling back, what does that mean to the investigation, and now what is it up to Josh to do?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF BEYOND MISSING: Well, Josh is going to have to radically change his behavior and his focus, because if law enforcement is pulling their resources back, media will soon follow. Therefore, the burden of locating and recovering this little boy will rest squarely and solely on Josh`s shoulders.

He`s the one who carries the hope; he`s the one who`s got to rally the troops. So that having been said, he`s going to have to get very aggressive in his behavior. He`s going to have to set up a volunteer center that`s not at his home. He`s going to have to send out search parties. He`s going to have to get somebody that is able to put good grid searches together. He`s going to have to do this, that and the other. It`s going to be a very difficult task, so he has to get off Melinda and get on to finding Trenton.

GRACE: Let`s go out to the lawyers. Joining us tonight, Doug Burns and Steve Greenberg. To you, Doug Burns, first of all, apparently, Melinda Duckett shot herself as the FBI was en route to her place.

DOUG BURNS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right.

GRACE: A lot of Monday morning quarterbacking, saying police should have already arrested her for hacking into Josh`s e-mails. Agree, disagree?

BURNS: No, I disagree. I think that that is classic Monday morning quarterbacking and very much a situation -- you know, it was so interesting when, you know, you have this on your show. A judge lets somebody out on bail routinely, then they kill somebody. Everybody second-guesses it. I think that in my respects this is very similar, so I disagree.

GRACE: Yes, yes, I agree with you on that one. Amazing.

To Steve Greenberg, Steve, we`ve got a veteran child custody lawyer with us here who has been reviewing the documents. Did you know that a court-appointed guardian ad litem who only represents the child, neither the mother nor the father, suggested to this court that this child be placed with the paternal grandparents, Josh`s grandparents, and nobody listened? Now the baby`s gone. Why don`t courts listen to these guardian ad litems?

STEVE GREENBERG, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, the guardian ad litem is just giving an opinion. And the court must have heard something from somebody else or else the court -- and I`m Monday morning quarterbacking here -- but or else the court just dropped the ball, because if this girl was into self-manipulation, she was obviously destructive, she was sending out fraudulent e-mails, there were a lot of other issues with her, that child should have been taken out of that house long ago before something -- unfortunately, it looks like happened to that child.

GRACE: A lot of confusion and mystery still surrounding the disappearance of Trenton Duckett. Here in the studio with me, a legal veteran in these matters, Penny Douglass Furr. What can you tell me after your review of the files, Penny?

PENNY DOUGLASS FURR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yes, Nancy. Apparently there was also a report by a licensed social worker who also gave the child to the father. And apparently, it`s my understanding that there was a visiting magistrate judge who flipped things around and then gave the child to the mother.

And I don`t know if they just did not do a complete review of the file, but something desperately happened, because if the guardian ad litem and the licensed social worker did not give the child to the mother, there was obviously a reason.

GRACE: So another judge came in, was sitting there that day, and flipped the decision as to where to put Trenton. What can you tell me about any anger management issues or medical issues Melinda may have had?

FURR: She did have psychological problems. I believe she had obsessive compulsive disorder, is what she was diagnosed with, was obsessive compulsive disorder.

GRACE: And that`s in the document?

FURR: And she was ordered to anger management classes, which I understand she did complete.

GRACE: To Josh, joining us, anger management classes? What was that all about?

J. DUCKETT: As far as I know, she was assigned to go to anger management classes through her DCF case plan.

GRACE: But for what? You don`t just suddenly have to go to anger management.

J. DUCKETT: For her outrages, I mean, her temper that she had. She would fly off the handle over anything, I mean, the slightest little thing.

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: I mean, did you notice these problems before she...

J. DUCKETT: No, not at first. I mean, I didn`t notice them really until she transferred to my school from Leesburg.

GRACE: OK, so you guys got together very young.

Back out to the lawyers. Joining us, Doug Burns and Steve Greenburg. Listen, guys, I know we`re on different sides of the fence, but I think we can agree on this. Here in New York, Doug, we just went through the Nix Marie (ph) case.

How many times do you have to call DFCS and say, "This child`s getting mistreated," before they actually do something? In this case, the child was taken away from this mom either three or four times. I think three times, put in foster care for four full days. What`s going on with DFCS?

BURNS: Well, unfortunately, it`s like the old Aesop`s fable, "The Boy who Called Wolf." I`m serious. In other words, people call in, they say there`s a problem. And it`s a vast bureaucracy, very complicated bureaucracy, and this is what happens. It`s really sad. I agree with you.

GRACE: Well, Doug, I wish you could have given me more than, "It`s a bureaucracy," but unfortunately I think you`re correct.

To Steve Greenberg, this is a very small jurisdiction. It can`t be that bureaucratic.

GREENBERG: Well, it can be that bureaucratic because it`s the state of Florida. And I agree with Doug. It is a bureaucracy. We had a case here in Illinois about 10, 12 years ago, where they returned a child to a mother and that day the mother hung the child. I`m sure nobody expected that to happen. But, unfortunately, we`re talking about a government bureaucracy, and we`re talking about untrained people at DCFS many times.

GRACE: Very quickly, to Jean Casarez with Court TV News, joining us out of Florida. Jean, what now? I find it very difficult to accept police are pulling back, several of the media no longer covering this case. There`s a very real chance this child is alive.

CASAREZ: There is a real chance, but remember there are a lot of law enforcement agencies involved. Leesburg Police Department have said that they are scaling back. You still have the FBI. You still have the sheriff`s department in two different counties. You still have numbers for tips to come in, so I think there is a lot still in force here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: I hate to interrupt our coverage about Trenton, but to "Case Alert." A funeral this morning for Houston police officer Rodney Johnson, killed last week, simple routine traffic stop. His alleged attacker? A 32-year-old once-deported Mexican national now being held without bond in a Harris County jail.

Officer Johnson, our prayers to your family.

And just confirmed: The 16-year-old female student hostage is dead there in Bailey, Colorado.

But there is still a chance that we can do some good for Trenton Duckett. Josh Duckett is with us. You`ve managed to up the reward to $10,000. How did you do that?

J. DUCKETT: Just through the community. I mean, it`s amazing how much the community`s come together and helped us. And I mean, that`s...

GRACE: You were out there washing cars.

J. DUCKETT: Yes, I mean...

GRACE: How much did you charge per car?

J. DUCKETT: Just donations. I mean, we had no set. Anything that we could get to help out.

GRACE: Let`s go to Alisha in Pennsylvania. Hi, dear.

CALLER: Hi. My question is: Have they checked with her family, any of her associates to see if Trenton`s with them?

GRACE: I`m sure they have, but answer that for Alisha.

J. DUCKETT: To my knowledge, they have. And they continue to search and go back and search through and continue to check them out.

GRACE: Do you believe she was ever in Ocala National Forest?

J. DUCKETT: I believe she was up there. But in my eyes, it may be just the thing to throw people off possibly.

GRACE: And joining us tomorrow night in taking your calls for the hour will be Josh, Trenton`s father.

Tonight, we stop to remember Army Specialist Thomas J. Barbieri, just 24, of Maryland, lost in the line of duty, Iraq. T.J., the second oldest of four brothers, had a prized possession: a silver 1967 Ford Mustang. Thomas J. Barbieri, American hero.

Thank you to our guests, especially to Josh Duckett. But our biggest thank you, to you, for being with us, inviting us into your home, and helping us find Trenton Duckett. NANCY GRACE signing off for tonight. See you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

CNN U.S.
CNN TV E-mail Services CNN Mobile CNNAvantGo Ad Info About Us Preferences
Search
© 2007 Cable News Network LP, LLLP.
A Time Warner Company. All Rights Reserved.
Terms under which this service is provided to you.
Read our privacy guidelines. Contact us. Site Map.
Offsite Icon External sites open in new window; not endorsed by CNN.com
Pipeline Icon Pay service with live and archived video. Learn more
Radio News Icon Download audio news  |  RSS Feed Add RSS headlines