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NANCY GRACE

Panel Discusses Developments In JonBenet Ramsey Case

Aired August 18, 2006 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Tonight -- new questions about the suspect in custody in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case. I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in for Nancy Grace.
Forty-one-year-old American school teacher John Mark Karr, who confessed to being responsible for her death, reportedly sent many, many bizarre and creepy e-mails to a Colorado college professor. E-mails that led to his arrest in Thailand. Tonight, we`ll read some of those alleged e-mails to you.

Also, authorities say this suspect knew graphic details about the crime that have been kept under wraps in the decade-long investigation. There are also astounding new developments that relate to the decade old ransom note and to a convicted child killer on death row.

But, even as information pours in, questions remain. Was Karr even in Colorado at the time of Ramsey`s murder? This, and much more as we take an in-depth look at the suspect in the JonBenet Ramsey case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m not a doctor or anything. But I think he is someone who is a little mental unstable, to be honest with you. The way he presents himself. The way he communicates with people. There`s something not fitting there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy grace. An American grade school teacher in custody on suspicion of murder in the JonBenet Ramsey case. John Mark Karr makes some stunning admissions related to the ten-year murder mystery. But does the evidence in the case match up with Karr`s confession?

Let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent Susan Candioti who is tracking this fast developing story. Susan, what the latest?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jane, the latest is from a U.S. law enforcement official tells CNN that John Mark Karr had specific graphic information about the physical condition of JonBenet Ramsey`s body. Information that has been kept under wraps, secret, for 10 years. And information known only to the medical examiner and to police investigators who have been covering this matter over the past decade. Law enforcement sources cannot say, however, they don`t know, how it is that Karr could have had access to this information. Information presumably known only by the killer or someone who knew the killer.

Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, one of the other fascinating developments that I heard you reporting on, Susan, involved this yearbook from the past, somebody saw this case, went up and grabbed a yearbook and looked for his signature and found a statement that correlated to an acronym, some initials that were left at the end of the ransom note. Tell us about that fascinating development.

CANDIOTTI: That`s right. Well, this is someone who went to high school with him. Someone who prefers to be known only by her first name, Teresa (ph). She was in the ninth grade, he was in the eleventh grade at the time. And she retrieves a yearbook, she remembered that she had, went up into the attic and found it. And because she recalled he had signed it. And the -- he signed it with an interesting note. Now, let`s see, I`m trying to make it out as well on the screen there now, help me out.

VELEZ-MITCHELL : I have it right here. "I shall be the conqueror and live in multiple peace."

CANDIOTTI: Exactly. And then someone went and looked at the ransom note again, the ransom note left behind by presumably the killer of JonBenet Ramsey. And it had these initials on it. And read them out for me again there, Jane.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: "SBTC" at the very end of this three-page ransom note. It says actually "Victory! SBTC."

CANDIOTTI: Which stands for those very words that he left in the inscription. "Shall be the conqueror."

VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is I think one of the most fascinating developments that`s broken on this case. Because it seems to be a connection that doesn`t have a lot of discrepancies tied to it. Of course, it could be a wild coincidence, psychotherapist Karen Stark who`s with me in studio.

Now, just on a hunch, I decided to Google that phrase that was found in the year work with a bible Internet search engine. And guess what came up. Judges Chapter 8, "I shall return a conqueror in peace."

Very similar to what he wrote in the yearbook, presumably, "I shall be the conqueror and live in multiple peace." What do you make of that?

KAREN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Well, it`s not unusual, Jane, for somebody who is in this position to be on a mission from God. And he is clearly a disturbed person. I`m not at all surprised, if in fact what he did, if he did this is a mission from God and he feels like he has a religious fervor attached to it that compels him to do any kind of killing or child -- whatever he`s doing.

VELEZ MITCHELL: And throughout this hour we`re going to be reading some e- mails. This is from the "Rocky Mountain Nnews" that broke this aspect of the story. These are purported e-mails from Karr to this college professor.

The one I`m going to read to you now he supposedly wanted the professor, Michael Tracey, to read it at the Ramsey home on the ninth anniversary of her murder. "JonBenet, my love, my life. I love you and shall forever love you. I pray that you can hear my voice calling out to you from my darkness. This darkness that now separates us."

Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau, what do you make of that?

DON CLARK, FORMER FBI AGENT: I tell you what, Jane, this is an unbelievable story that`s starting to unfold. But I have to tell you, of all the things I`ve heard over the last several days, seems to me like the write-ins and the information that they got off of the document there, as well as the one that came off of the ransom note, seems to me to be the most compelling information that they have.

Now, I know that the law enforcement must have some other things going on there, or perhaps they wouldn`t be pursuing it to this extent. But nonetheless, it`s going to take solid evidence, and that seems to be the joiner. And I think if they can do something with the handwriting in that note that was found and in the one that`s from the yearbook, then they may be well on their way to trying to put a case together.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Prosecutor Holly Hughes, two days ago we thought, we have it solved. Then yesterday, widespread skepticism. Where do we stand now?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Right now, what we need is more information, Jane. Some of the things that he is saying don`t match up with the evidence. Initially there was some indication he said he had drugged her. Now the Taiwanese (sic) officials are saying, no, that`s not necessarily the interpretation of what he said. We need to know the specifics of the information he`s giving and if it does indeed match up with things only the killer and law enforcement would know.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: We are very delighted to have with us tonight Mark Klaas, the father of murder victim Polly Klaas, and a leader in the movement to protect all of us from these dangerous child predators. Good evening, sir.

MARK KLAAS, FATHER OF MURDER VICTIM: Well, thank you, and thank you for those kind words, Jane.

VELEZ MITCHELL: I want to ask you about this development. And I`m sure it`s probably upsetting for you to have to think about this. But authorities did search the prison cell of Richard Allen Davis, who for our viewers is the man who was convicted in the murder of your daughter and who now sits on death row in San Quentin. They were reportedly looking for letters from this suspect, John Karr. What do you make of all this? Apparently, late information, they didn`t find any letters in the cell.

KLAAS: Yeah, that`s what I understand as well. Well, I can tell you it`s extremely upsetting to me, that 13 years after she`s been laid to rest, somebody`s messing with my daughter`s memory again. And that she doesn`t have the kind of peace that she deserves.

I`m equally upset by the fact that her beautiful memories are somehow rattling around in the brain and in the twisted fantasies of this creature that they have over in Thailand. It`s just unbelievable to me.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: It is. And some of the details, again, I thank you for bearing with us because this must be upsetting to you. There have been reports Karr had a copy of Polly`s death certificate that he kept as some sort of sick keepsake. It`s been really reported widely that he was quite obsessed with the case of your daughter`s murder. What do you make of that obsession in light of the fact that he actually moved his family to Petaluma, California, several years after your daughter`s murder? And that`s the same area.

KLAAS: Well, it`s pretty darn creepy, isn`t it. But I think this obsession of his with these little dead girls might explain how he`s able to get his hands on information that`s not widely known to the public. I`m with the FBI fellow there. I think that what they need to do is start analyzing this handwriting. That`s where the key to this thing may be. Handwriting analysis or perhaps DNA analysis.

But this connection with my daughter just absolutely chills me. And I just -- I so wish that this thing had been handled more discreetly. That we didn`t have to turn this thing into an international incident almost immediately before anybody really knew much of anything about it.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Let`s go back to Susan Candiotti, CNN correspondent. Everybody seems quite excited and interested by this handwriting analysis. What`s the next step? Do they go to other yearbooks and see if this was his signature sign-off? Do they compare the handwriting or are they already doing that?

CANDIOTTI: Of course, this is something they`re already working on. We at CNN, this information turned up by our correspondent Rusty Dornin and producer Mike Falin (ph) among others, they have already spoken with one handwriting analyst who did not see any immediate comparison, an obvious comparison between the handwriting samples that we have all seen and this sample from back in the high school years.

In fact, according to this one analyst, he felt as though it was very -- written in a very artistic, flowing, flamboyant style, if you will. Perhaps done that way on purpose at a very much younger age. So at this point, he felt it was simply a coincidence.

The initials that we saw and the handwriting and what it might possibly have stood for. Whether that could have been something done on purpose, same thing that was found in the ransom note. But of course the authorities have already begun, I`m quite certain, looking at whatever documents are out there to see whether there is any comparison.

And of course the all-important DNA swab they took from him in Thailand. Obviously we have discussed that before. If they can make a match between that swab and crime scene DNA that they picked up from her underwear and from under her fingernails, that could be the slam dunk.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, that is the key, Dr. Spitz, forensic pathologist and medical examiner, give us sort of a timeline on that. How long is it going to take for them to come up with a match? And when might we hear?

DR. DANIEL SPITZ, FORENSIC PAHTOLOGIST: Well, DNA testing doesn`t really take that long. The only reason it takes so long is because there`s a huge backlog in most of the crime labs around the country. Certainly this is a high priority case and everybody is interested in getting the results so this is going to be pushed to the top of the pile I`m certain.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Give us a scenario. What happens if it comes back negative? What happens if it comes back a match? And could it also be inconclusive?

SPITZ: Well, it could be inconclusive. And there`s different degrees of inconclusive. So assuming it`s negative, it doesn`t necessarily exclude this individual. But if it is positive, it is basically a slam dunk. That puts him at the crime scene. And basically confirms what the story is that he`s telling investigators now. So a positive result would be huge, as far as solving this case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: So many developments coming in. Let`s go straight out to CNN correspondent Drew Griffin in Bangkok. Drew, I understand you have information that really helps us fill in the portrait of this man. Tell us about that.

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, a lot of the people who knew him; and they did not know him well because, Jane, he was such a loner they are telling us. Usually these people that come to exotic locations like Bangkok and become schoolteachers, they`re here because there`s some kind of adventure travel involved. They like to meet people, they like to talk with strangers and become friends with their fellow teachers here. But that was not the case here from what we are learning about him.

They are calling him awkward. One person was calling him mentally unstable. Certainly not outgoing at all. This guy was indeed a loner living here in Thailand. And the only thing he really wanted to do as far as we can tell was teach children and specifically teach little girls.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Thai police created an uproar when they quoted Karr as saying during the confession that he had drugged and had sex with her. But they seem to be backtracking on that statement. What can you tell us about that?

GRIFFIN: I really don`t think we should pay too much attention to those statements. Those were secondhand statements coming from a police lieutenant who got that information from his detectives who actually were there.

So going up the chain of command we have maybe misinterpretations of the actual events. So I don`t think, Jane, we can nit-pick those statements coming out of this prison. Other than the statements from Mr. Karr himself, which were so bizarre and so chilling the other day.

VELEZ MITHCELL: Well, let`s go to Pat Kornen, former spokesperson for the Ramsey family. Now some of the key discrepancies everybody was yelling about, oh, he couldn`t have drugged her because that didn`t show in autopsy and there wasn`t any conclusive indication of sexual assault, now it appears he may not have said that. So does that bolster the case he is possibly responsible for this? OK. I think we`ve got a little audio problem. I`m going to ask that same question to Holly Hughes, prosecutor, because it is really a key question. A lot of people were throwing out everything he had to say simply because he made those two statements that didn`t line up with the autopsy as we know it.

HUGHES: That`s right, Jane, and I think it does assist the case. It helps the case, it bolsters the case. What we have now is the police saying, well, we misinterpreted, perhaps. It`s kind of like the telephone game you used to play when you were a child. And by the time the actual what was said got around to the other end of the circle you were sitting in, the information was completely different.

And I think that`s what we have here. We have four or five people interpreting it. By the time it gets up to the lieutenant who reported it to the press, it seems like it`s a contradiction. And now they`re backing off of that. I don`t think we have the contradictions that people were so concerned about initially.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right, we`ve got Pat Kornen back. Your thoughts on this, Pat?

PAT KORNEN, FORMER SPOKESMAN FOR RAMSEY FAMILY: I think -- It`s gratifying to me finally to see law enforcement authorities taking seriously the fact that somebody else other than the parents committed this murder. The most difficult thing for me early on in this case was the difficulty that we had in getting law enforcement officials to even concede the possibility that the Ramseys were innocent, which I always knew they were. So the fact that you`ve got a really serious suspect here, who I think -- I don`t want to speculate. I don`t want to try and convict the guy before there`s a trial. I think is very good news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you didn`t love JonBenet. I loved JonBenet. Saying it was an accident, well, by what accident were you even in her home? By what accident did you tie something around her neck and choke her? By what accident did you put an eight-inch crack in her skull? These things are not accidents. Accidents are falling off the couch and bumping your head when you`re a toddler.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I haven`t seen anything at this point to tell me that he did or tell me that he didn`t. I think he believes that he did. I think that he for whatever reason has some evidently some internal knowledge with respect to some quote "elements" of the crime. These are things that I`m not privy to. I don`t know what kinds of things he`s told.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. As an American schoolteacher sits in a Thailand detention center, named as a suspect in the JonBenet case. New details emerge about hundreds, possibly hundreds of disturbing e-mails he sent to a Colorado professor. We are reading these alleged e-mails to you tonight and getting analysis from the experts.

Now let`s go to this e-mail which Karr claims he was the subject of a four- state investigation regarding child murder and child molestation. He says, as a result of that investigation "I lost every friend, contact and family member as a result of this investigation. Some of my closest little girls were questioned by the authorities which broke my heart into pieces."

Let`s go back out to Drew Griffin in Bangkok. Do we get a sense to this investigation actually existed or was it only existing in his own mind?

GRIFFIN: I`m sorry, can you say that again, Jane? They`re moving the chains around the jail.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, I can understand, we`re talking half a world away. Basically, he had claimed in some of these e-mails that he was the subject of a four-state investigation into child murder and child molestation in one of those e-mails to the college professor. And we were wondering if that investigation had ever really existed or was it only pretty much in his own imagination?

GRIFFIN: I really can`t answer that right now but the e-mail stream seems to get him in trouble just about wherever he goes. One school that we talked to here, he was applying for a job, and within that application process he was sending back and forth e-mails to the school, Jane. And some of e-mails, according to the school, contained pornographic material within the e-mail itself. This is a teacher applying for a job. That may have been a mistake on Mr. Karr`s part, let`s hope that is the case, but that is one of the reasons the school said no way to this guy. So he has a history apparently of using these e-mails to say any which thing and to also apparently send explicit material.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yeah, and Karen Stark, psychotherapist, it also shows he hasn`t really learned anything. I mean, this is a guy who was arrested on five misdemeanor counts of child porn. And you heard it right there, he`s still playing the same game.

STARK: Well, Jane, that doesn`t surprise me at all. Because he can`t stop himself. This is what he`s about. He has to be able to look at porn. He has to be talking about how these little girls were so close to him. He said they are his peers. These are the people that he relates to. Little children.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: What do you get, a sense that he`s a demented man who`s very sick who didn`t do this? Or are you starting to see a picture of, yeah, maybe he could have actually committed this crime?

STARK: I wouldn`t be surprised if he committed this crime. He really fits for me a lot of the profile, with the fact that he does have that history, he says he loves her, the way that he looks, innocent but he really isn`t, shifty-eyed, all of that stuff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was shocked. And my heart really went out for the Ramsey family more so. Because I hope they find the person who did this. And I hope that if this person did it that this is the truth. Because I think that all of us were shocked. We couldn`t believe it. But then at the same time, we thought, is this person being honest and is he giving the true story?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell sitting in for Nancy Grace. JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect John Mark Karr waiting to are transferred back from Thailand. He was arrested in Bangkon on Wednesday in a 10-year murder mystery. Everybody knows that at the beginning of this case and for many years, the Ramseys, the parents of JonBenet, were under an umbrella of suspicion.

So I`d like to go to Mark Klaas, father of Polly Klaas. Sir, you experienced something very similar to what they went through. A tragic loss and an investigation. So much of this has to do with how they responded immediately after the investigation that raised suspicions. How would you contrast your behavior with their behavior?

KLAAS: Well, listen, Jane, first of all, when children are murdered or kidnapped, suspicion is immediately going to turn to family members. That then becomes incumbent upon those family members to do in everything their power to clear themselves from suspicion. That is why I and other members of my family were absolutely transparent with both media and law enforcement. We answered every question. We made sure that every base was covered. And I can assure you, they were on me like white on rice. Immediately after Polly was kidnapped they were knocking on my door to see if I had anything to do with it.

So it was a very difficult and a very tense time. But we took the polygraphs, we went into the interrogations, we made -- we did interviews with absolutely everybody we could. And they were able to get by us. We were able to get over that hurdle. And they were then able to use their full investigative force to see what had happened to Polly.

That`s unfortunately not what happened in the Ramsey case. And that`s why suspicion lingered.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our mission is the pursuit of justice. Let us do our job thoroughly and carefully. You can surely imagine the logistical difficulty of conducting an international investigation. The analysis of the evidence in this case continues, on a day-by-day, on an hour-by-hour basis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell in tonight for Nancy Grace. Is the JonBenet Ramsey murder case finally solved? A 41-year-old American school teacher being held in Thailand as a murder suspect, and authorities say he knows graphic, graphic details about the condition of JonBenet Ramsey`s body the day she was murdered, information hidden by investigators for nearly a decade.

Let`s go straight out to Susan Candiotti who has been tracking this case. Can you give us any more information on these graphic details that he supposedly had that nobody else had? Because there`s been a lot of speculation that maybe they kind of leaked out, considering that so many of the investigators on the case ultimately became disgruntled because they felt that the authorities had their blinders on and were only looking at the Ramseys. So maybe they had a motive to leak it?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Oh, I think that`s highly speculative. And I really don`t have any further information about how this could have gotten out, where it came from, other than the fact that it came out of Karr`s mouth. But how he would have received it, unless he knew it because he is possibly the killer or whether he heard it from someone else, Jane, I just can`t offer you any insight into that.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, Don Clark, former head of the FBI Houston bureau, your thoughts on that? Because we`ve heard that one investigator who was actually working on the case for the police department became so disgusted, he resigned and later did some independent investigation on his own. There were many disgruntled people.

Given that this information was supposedly secret and known only to the medical examiner and the investigators, if there`s disgruntled investigators, couldn`t that get out, given that this suspect was supposedly researching a book so therefore could have been in contact in some way, shape or form?

DON CLARK, FORMER HEAD OF FBI HOUSTON BUREAU: Clearly, Jane, it`s a possibility that the information could have gotten out. Somebody had to know the information, the information from the medical examiner`s office and the information about the investigative file.

And you`re right: There were a lot of disgruntled people. And I`m certainly not pointing the finger at any one, but the possibility does exist that some information could have gotten out. And I suspect that this is the type of guy, from what I`ve found out over the last week now, a few days, is that this is the type of guy who researches everything, who probably has contacts, and who has probably become friends or associates with a lot of people so that he could get information. And he might very well have done that.

But I have to tell you, Jane, I want to go back to something you asked a little bit earlier about the investigation of this guy in four states and so forth. I talked to an FBI official today who told me that that was just not true, that this guy had not been investigated to that extent, but certainly not by the FBI.

So I`m starting to wonder here just what`s going on with this guy. I`m a little bit concerned about anything that he says at this point. That`s why it`s so important that they do something with the evidence, because that`s what it`s going to take, is hard evidence to get to a prosecutor.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. It`s like every time a new piece of information comes in, it`s like a see-saw. You go back and forth. One minute you think, "Oh, this is ridiculous. This guy`s a bad actor." And the next minute you go, "Wow, there might be something to it."

Elizabeth Kelley, defense attorney, you have been on this see-saw watching this case unfold. Your thoughts on the fact that every piece of evidence seems to put a new slant on this case?

ELIZABETH KELLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Exactly. And a few things need to happen here. First of all, Mr. Karr`s family must hire him an attorney, and they must do so immediately, or, if that doesn`t happen, the court in Boulder, Colorado, needs to appoint Mr. Karr an attorney. In turn, that attorney needs to silence Mr. Karr. He basically needs to put a sock in Mr. Karr`s mouth and not allow him to speak to the media or anyone else.

Also, that attorney needs to hire the best possible forensic psychologist, preferably someone with experience in pedophilia, as well as delusional behavior. And also, the defense attorney needs to realize that there is a huge opportunity right now.

This district attorney`s office is not going to try any suspect unless that D.A.`s office knows that it can secure a conviction. And that attorney, while waiting for the DNA evidence to return, needs to find out how ironclad Mr. Karr`s alibi could be. If his ex-wife can produce, say, video or photographs of that Christmas when JonBenet was murdered, then I would wager that the D.A.`s office would not indict.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And I have a very quick question about timing. I mean, you`re saying that basically, ideally, they`d like to wait for more evidence to come in. So is this kind of a timing game, where they bring him back but they want to wait for the DNA test results and some other evidence before they actually go to, let`s say, an arraignment?

KELLEY: I believe so. Mary Lacy, the district attorney is not a district attorney who wants to rush to judgment.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. Let`s go to the phone lines. Waiting patiently, Laurie from New York. Your question, Laurie?

CALLER: Hi, Jane. I just wanted to know why this Karr is not already in prison for past crimes that he`s committed, especially underage marriages to girls. Isn`t this statutory rape issues?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, you raise one of the key questions here. A lot of people have wondered why they arrested him on the JonBenet case and why they didn`t just get him on the fact that he fled the United States after not making a court appearance for five misdemeanor counts of child pornography. Wouldn`t that have been the safer route, prosecutor Holly Hughes, to just get him on that much more tangible charge, get him back here, wait for the evidence, and then see what happens with this case?

HOLLY HUGHES, PROSECUTOR: Jane, it was certainly one way they could go. But when you`re talking about misdemeanor charges, a misdemeanor only carries a possible sentence of up to 12 months. So what they`re looking at, is it something they`re going to run concurrent, and is it even worth it to extradite him?

And one of your earlier guests pointed out, to get the justice officials and the international legal community to extradite on a misdemeanor is going to be very, very difficult. They needed to have him on something very serious, and that`s what they did. They did something that would enable them to get him back here, stop him from possibly committing more crimes, as he had just started a new job teaching children again, and also there was the possibility that he would flee if he was in any way tipped off that they were looking into him for the JonBenet case.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, let`s go to Kyung Lah, CNN correspondent who is in Boulder, Colorado, to shed some light on all of this. Kyung, we`ve been talking about the timing issue and why they didn`t bring him back on the five misdemeanor counts of child porn, which seemed to be a much more tangible and less risky strategy. Can you fill us in?

KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: According to the U.S. attache there, we are hearing that she just actually met with him this afternoon. We`re hearing there are a number of logistical issues that are involved in trying to get somebody out of that country and here into Boulder.

What we`re hearing from the authorities here in Boulder is that we`re expecting to see him in about a week or so. But while he`s been in Thailand, there`s an Associated Press report that he had a DNA swab taken out of his mouth. And so we don`t know when those results are going to come in, but we anticipate that, when he comes here, that he`ll additionally get some more DNA testing.

We are getting a glimpse into the future, Jane, about what it`s going to look like when he does arrive here. We`re anticipating that there will be a court date. But in a dramatic departure from what we`ve seen in Thailand, that court appearance will be very brief, approximately five minutes long, and there probably will not be any cameras in the courtroom - - Jane?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: And is there kind of a timing problem here, where the D.A. would hope to get a lot more information in before he arrives so that they don`t prematurely, let`s say, indict or continue this process and then suddenly find out, oops, the DNA doesn`t match?

LAH: You`re absolutely right about that. And I actually spoke with someone yesterday, a former prosecutor in this office who had worked side by side with her for some 16 years. And he said just by her demeanor yesterday and everything that she was saying, it certainly appeared to him that they were very worried that that would, in fact, be the case, that that might be something that this prosecutor`s office might have to deal with.

And this is an office, as has been well-publicized over the last 10 years, there have been some issues in trying to get this case followed through correctly. There have been other issues involved to the level that it`s cost some people their careers here in Boulder, Colorado.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: God had his hands around her the whole entire time that was happening; I have to believe in that. That`s what keeps me at peace and not going stir crazy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATSY RAMSEY, MOTHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: Keep your babies close to you. There`s someone out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, filling in tonight for Nancy Grace. JonBenet Ramsey murder suspect John Mark Karr facing serious charges when he gets back to the United States from Thailand. He says he was with 6-year-old JonBenet the night she died and says it was an accident.

We are trying to sort all of this out to find out whether or not he is scamming the world or whether, in fact, he is responsible for this horrific crime. Let`s go out to Ollie Gray and John San Agustin. These are private investigators who were hired by the Ramseys` attorneys.

Good evening, and thank you for your patience, sir. John, let`s start with you. A lot of this boils down to, could an intruder have committed this crime, or did it have to be an inside job? Apparently, you believe it could have been an intruder, which means it could have possibly been this Mr. Karr. Why do you think it could have been an intruder?

JOHN SAN AGUSTIN, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, if you look at the physical evidence in this case, it`s abundant. We`ve got foreign DNA under her fingernails. We have foreign DNA that was found in her panties. We have unidentified footwear impressions in the room where her body was found. We have a ransom note which was never matched to Mrs. Ramsey.

There`s a paintbrush that`s missing; there`s rope; there`s tape; there`s a number of things that point to an intruder. You have an open window. You have a suitcase at the base of that window with glass on top of it. These are all obvious signs that an intruder entered this home.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, you know, the first thing that always pops out at me when I think about this case is, how did this intruder know about John Ramsey`s bonus being $118,000, which is the amount that he mentions in the ransom note?

SAN AGUSTIN: Well, you know, the killer had an opportunity to be in that home. And while going through that home, there were a lot of things in the Ramsey household, in particular payroll stubs, that the killer could have looked at and seen these values or this amount. Again, that`s an approximate amount; that`s not the exact amount that he received in 1995.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Pat Kornen, former spokesperson for the Ramsey family, let me ask you this question, because Marc Klaas brought this up. Why did the Ramseys react the way they did? Why didn`t they say, "Hey, I`ll take a polygraph right away"? Why didn`t they agree to talk to investigators right away?

PAT KORNEN, FORMER SPOKESPERSON FOR RAMSEY FAMILY: Well, they cooperated all the way through, but they followed the advice of their attorneys, which is what any sensible person would do. Their attorneys wanted to make sure that the police focused on the prospect that someone else had committed the crime or at least to entertain that possibility.

The problem is, the police never took seriously the possibility that someone else did it.

The thing that I am most interested in, Jane, is that, if John Karr turns out to be the killer, I would very much like to know where he was and what he was doing during the days and hours immediately following the crime. I would very much like to know whether the attitude of the detectives at the time, in focusing exclusively on the parents, enabled them to or forced them to miss an opportunity to catch this guy at a time when it could have solved the case very quickly.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ollie Gray, a private investigator hired by the Ramseys` attorneys, when you look at all the evidence, do you really think there is a possibility, based on your extensive knowledge of the case, that this man did it? Because so many are so skeptical.

OLLIE GRAY, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, that`s part of the problem with the whole process is the skepticism of everybody. I think you need to step back, let the district attorney`s office do their job. And when they cross all the t`s, dot the i`s, you`ll have an answer instead of a lot of speculation.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Now, I want to go to Don Clark, former head of the Houston FBI, as we continue to put together the puzzle of this crazy acting man, John Mark Karr. We don`t know whether he is responsible or if he`s just mentally disturbed.

But a portrait that`s emerging is that he was overly strict, according to a school that fired him, very controlling, according to his ex-wife who filed for divorce in 2001 and sought a restraining order against him. His first wife, who was 14 years old when she got married to him and then got an annulment, said she was, quote, "fearful for her life and safety." Your thoughts in this portrait?

CLARK: Well, what I think is that what all that tells us is that the investigators have got to go back to almost day one with Mr. Karr and really, really start to build a paper trail and build a road map as to where this person has been and what he`s been doing. And I think that`s what`s going to be a very key aspect in being able to put together an air- tight case here, notwithstanding whatever confession that he might give, Jane, because they`ve got to be able to put this person in specific locations at specific times. And until they can do such, then I think it`s going to be very difficult, unless DNA or some of the other aspects, fingerprints, show up on him.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: All right. And as we paint this portrait, let`s go to yet another e-mail. This one`s a humdinger, folks; I hope you`re sitting down. OK, he allegedly writes, "I will tell you that I can understand people like Michael Jackson and feel sympathy when he suffers as he has."

And, Caryn Stark, as you ponder that one, apparently his obsession with children extended to child brides. His first wife was 14. As we heard, she got an annulment. The second one was 16. What are you putting together?

CARYN STARK, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I`m putting together somebody who really is obsessed with children to the point that he begins to identify with Michael Jackson, that he`s interested in Polly`s case, somebody who, if he hasn`t committed the crime, identifies with someone who has committed crimes.

And so he has thoughts about doing these things. He`s really a disturbed person, Jane, and we really have to take a look at him in the possibility that he may be the person who did this, particularly since he has a crime history.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and, Kyung Lah, what`s the mood in Boulder? Is there a sense that this happened prematurely? Is there a lot of skepticism, or are people weighing all this and saying, "They might have their man"?

LAH: Well, this is a community who has lived with this for 10 years. We`re definitely getting the sense that folks here would just like to see the D.A. come forward with the evidence. And at this point, we haven`t seen or heard what it is. The D.A. has been extremely measured in what she`s said and specifically saying that state law is saying that she`s not going to be able to talk about the evidence.

We`ve had several people ride by on their bicycles fairly frankly just sick and tired of the media. This is a community, again, living with this for 10 years. A child`s life was lost here. This is a community who certainly knows that and knows the value of a child`s life is, because this is a community who lost that little girl.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: I`m Jane Velez-Mitchell, in for Nancy Grace. Tonight, a look back on the decade-long investigation into the JonBenet Ramsey murder case.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: New details emerging in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, along with lots and lots of new questions. A suspect in custody of authorities in Thailand claims he was with JonBenet when she died, but there are some discrepancies that we will look into tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, you didn`t love JonBenet. I loved JonBenet.

JOHN MARK KARR, SUSPECT IN JONBENET RAMSEY INVESTIGATION: I loved JonBenet, and she died accidentally.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Saying it was an accident? Well, by what accident were you even in her home? By what accident did you tie something around her neck and choke her? By what accident did you put an eight-inch crack in her skull?

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you think he did it or not? Renee Rockwell, quickly, your thoughts?

RENEE ROCKWELL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I don`t think he did it, but I think he thinks he did it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As her friend and her lawyer, I regret that Patsy`s not here to be able to speak to you herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We should all heed the poignant advice of John Ramsey.

JOHN RAMSEY, FATHER OF JONBENET RAMSEY: I don`t think it`s proper that we speculate or discuss the case. It`s important that justice be allowed to run its course.

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Take a look at that, "Solved." But maybe there should have been a little question mark there, because there are so many questions.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In there somewhere is Karr, is John Mark Karr. And that, of course, is the man with all the answers to the questions that you`ve just been posing on the program.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you an innocent man?

KARR: No.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VELEZ-MITCHELL: Quite a story.

Tonight, we remember Army Sergeant Daniel Gionet, just 23, from Pelham, New Hampshire. An Army medic, Gionet was on his second tour of duty, a newlywed. He leaves behind a grieving widow, parents, and a younger brother and sister. Daniel Gionet, an American hero.

We`d like to thank all of our guests for their insights. And thanks to you at home for tracking these important cases with us. It`s been a pleasure and an honor filling in for Nancy this past week with her really amazing staff. They are amazing. Join us right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. You don`t want to miss it. Until then, have a terrific and a safe weekend.

END

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