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NANCY GRACE

Seventeen-year-old Scott Dyleski pleads not guilty to murder in the bludgeoning death of Pamela Vitale, wife of defense attorney Daniel Horowitz.

Aired November 9, 2005 - 20:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


HARRIS FAULKNER, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in a California courtroom. Scott Dyleski, accused of killing Pam Vitale, the wife of high- profile defense attorney Daniel Horowitz, pleads not guilty. We`ll get the very latest in that case. And we`ll go live to Texas for breaking news. Andrea Yates, found guilty of drowning her own children, May get a new trial. The conviction was thrown out because of false testimony in the case, and now, Texas court clears the way for a brand-new trial.
Good evening, everyone. I`m Harris Faulkner, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Tonight, breaking news in the Andrea Yates child murder case. A Texas court clears the way for a new trial. Yates was convicted two-and- a-half years ago of drowning her children in a bathtub. An appeals court overturned the convictions because of false testimony.

But first tonight, breaking news in the brutal murder of Pamela Vitale, wife of prominent criminal defense attorney Daniel Horowitz. Suspect 17-year-old Scott Dyleski, charged with murder one in the case, enters a not guilty plea today in court.

Straight away for the very latest in this case...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCH HOUSE, KNOWS SCOTT DYLESKI AND FAMILY: Well, when I first met him, I`d kind of talk to him about Marilyn Manson and told him that, you know, when I was his age, I was into Alice Cooper, which was the beginning of the shock rock thing. I`d asked if he played music or if he wanted me to teach him guitar or piano or something. He didn`t seem to have interest in that. He was just sort of -- Marilyn Manson was kind of just his hero.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Talking about knowing Scott Dyleski, and that`s where we begin tonight, with Scott`s not guilty plea in court late today. Let`s go straight away to CNN`s Ted Rowlands. Ted, bring us to speed on the case.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Harris, today`s court appearance was relatively short. Scott Dyleski sat with the public defender assigned to him, and through the public defender, entered a plea of not guilty. He also answered a series of yes questions to the prosecutor, Hal Jewett (ph), in this case, that he understood basically what was going on, that he understood that he was waiving his right to a speedy pre-trial within 10 days of today`s date. He did waive that. They set another court date for a month from now. I expect that they will take as much time as they can, the defense. This public defender just got the case, and she said in court that she needed more time because he`s had relatively little, if any, discovery going her way.

Dyleski, with that, left, and that was all we heard. His mother was not in the courtroom. He did have a group of friends in the courtroom saying that they wanted to support this individual that they said was a sweet young man. Despite the charges against him, they say that the media has been unfair to Scott Dyleski by showing that sort of demonic high school photograph of him and saying that he may have dressed odd but he was down deep a sweet, young man. They just don`t understand why he`s in this predicament.

FAULKNER: And of course, Ted, we know that a lot of people have said a lot of nice things about this young man, people who knew him. I think we have some of that now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The complaint that was filed in this matter, Mr. Dyleski, was filed on October 21 and alleges that you committed a felony in violation of penal code section 187, murder, on October 15, 2005, at Lafayette, California, in Contra Costa County, and that you unlawfully and with malice aforethought murdered one Pamela Vitale, a human being.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: And of course, what we`re looking at there is from October 27, when the first complaints were filed against Scott Dyleski.

You know, Ted, real quickly, just to wrap up with you, you were talking about who was not in court today. His mom was not in court today. That`s interesting because in this case, she was arrested very early on. Was there any talk about why maybe she had been arrested? I know that there were some items found in the back of her car that police have said they consider evidence in this case, but perhaps to put pressure on her son.

ROWLANDS: Well, she was arrested as an accessory. And according to the charging document, they accused her of concealing evidence in this case in an effort to help her son avoid potential prosecution. They then dropped the charges against Dyleski`s mother, Esther Fielding, in open court. It was sort of a bizarre moment, where the prosecutor, Hal Jewett, walked over to her and said, Listen, do you promise to tell the truth in this case? And she said, Yes. And through her attorney, they agreed to drop the charges, so she has promised to tell the truth in this case as she sees it. Whether or not the district attorney has a signed affidavit to actually what that truth is, we don`t know, but she is -- those charges have been dropped.

She wasn`t in court today, but we understand that she has talked with friends about this, and she is, as you might imagine, pretty distraught that her son is in this predicament.

On the other side of the coin, Daniel Horowitz not court. Some representatives from the neighborhood, though, were in court today that knew Pamela Vitale and Daniel Horowitz, and they say the plan to attend every one of the hearings for this young man.

FAULKNER: All right. Ted Rowlands with CNN, we appreciate this report. And of course, we`ll check back with you a little bit more because you were in court today, and we want to hear more about that.

But for now, we`re going to move on to someone who is a private investigator, Vito Colucci, and can talk maybe a little bit about what some of the evidence might be in this case. We know that the murder scene was a brutal one. And just to paint the picture -- Mr. Colucci, thank you for joining us tonight. But real quickly, to point the picture of where this happened on the property of Pamela Vitale and her husband, Daniel Horowitz, they were having a home built, and they were living in a mobile home on that property. And that`s where this occurred, a very gruesome scene. It`s described that whoever took the life of Pamela Vitale took some sort of crown molding and beat her, hit her 39 times.

What kind of evidence are we looking at that investigators might be considering?

VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Well, we have quite a bit. Now, to the general public or to some people, it would look like a slam dunk, OK, because you have a drinking glass that he drank out of, he took a shower. You got DNA of any hair found in the bathroom, in the bathtub. You have a bloody footprint on the lid of that storage container. You have a lot -- scratches on him that the police saw right away, plus any scrapings under her nails that were found at the scene. On paper, it looks like a slam dunk, OK, but they have to really cross every T and dot every I in this.

And as far as the mom, don`t be -- don`t be shy about this thing. This mother is not going to come forward and testify at the end. She`ll take a contempt charge. This mother idolized her son, everything I read about it, so don`t be surprised with that.

FAULKNER: You know, let`s move on now to prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair. Nelda, one of the questions I`ve had about in this case is just what this young man looked like before today. In court today, we saw a very cleaned- up person. We know that he has a history, at least, of having a Goth appearance. He`s pleading not guilty, at this point. Any coincidence that he was cleaned up today for court?

NELDA LUCE BLAIR, PROSECUTOR: No coincidence at all. It`s very, very typical of a defense attorney to cut his client`s hair, dress him up, make him Look good, a little suit, maybe a nice shirt. It doesn`t really matter what they looked like before because they`re going to look like an angel once they get into in court. Every defense lawyer uses that tactic.

FAULKNER: OK. And joining me now here on set is Dr. Lisa Kaplan Ashenmil. And Doctor, you know, the Goth culture is something that we have become so familiar with, with, you know, the killings at Columbine and now most recently in Minnesota. We had a young man there, too. And the Jeffrey Weiss (ph) case. And I`m just wondering how much that plays a role in this scenario.

LISA KAPLAN ASHENMIL, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think it could play a role, but it might not play a role. And I think it`s going to be very important that we look at all different areas and not just hone in on one specific thing because that`s -- because he`s dressing a certain way, in looking into certain material.

FAULKNER: What about the talk that this young man had kind of appeared withdrawn, very much so? I mean, don`t want to call him anti- social, but people have described him as appearing withdrawn. And we do have some of the accounts of that from some of the neighbors, people who know him.

ASHENMIL: Right. And it could be that he is either abusing drugs or alcohol. He could be depressed. It could be a whole host of things. And you know, clearly, as a psychologist, I would want to do a thorough evaluation. I`d want him to be diagnosed. I`d want to understand what`s been going on throughout his lifetime, not just in the last few months, in order to get a better sense of his character and what`s he`s capable and not capable of doing.

FAULKNER: All right. I know we have heard some people that know him. And Liz (ph), if you could queue up, I think it`s sound bite number 3, we could probably take a listen to that. We want to be able to hear what people had described him as, You know, he lived with his mother in a home with another family. Let`s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOUSE: He was always shy. He was always respectful. He was -- he babysat for me. I was trying to have him babysit for me the weekend of the murder. He was someone I trusted him, someone that was gentle, he was shy, very introverted, but not someone that you would think would be capable of violence like this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Anything surprising there to you, Doctor?

ASHENMIL: Not necessarily. I mean, we never know when there`s a breaking point, and people can behave a certain way in front of certain people because that`s what`s expected of them.

FAULKNER: OK. And of course, these are alleged charges against Scott Dyleski that we`re talking about today. He`s pleading not guilty to murder one. Let`s talk with defense attorney Debra Opri right now about what the defense might look like in all of this -- Debra.

DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, let`s pick up the pace and figure out exactly who Scott is going to be when he walks into the court for his fair trial. Due process entitles him to a fair trial. I understand there`s a gag order getting into place.

As a defense attorney, if the forensics and DNA are in place and they are nailing him to a cross, not to be prolific in the comment, he`s going to run a very rough time. I would go for the mental evaluation. I`d try to go with an insanity defense. I`d try to attack motive in every which way, shape and form, saying, clear blue, is it him? Maybe you got the wrong guy. Present enough reasonable doubt that perhaps, just whether he was there or not, he happened upon whatever.

Now, I am a friend of Dan Horowitz`s. Now, by no shape would I ever accept this case as a criminal defense attorney, but when you are faced with a client like this, you are going for reasonable doubt. You are going for a possible insanity defense if there`s not enough reasonable doubt, and you`re going to attack that DNA and forensics right down the way. You do not give up any leg of the fight. You`re going to have to fight for the fair trial. You`re going to have to fight to kick out all of the evidence you can. And any statements he may have made, get that kicked out, as well. He was a minor when he made them.

FAULKNER: Nelda Blair, when you consider some of the evidence that the private investigator, Vito Colucci, was talking about found at the scene...

BLAIR: Right.

FAULKNER: ... what do you have to work with there?

BLAIR: Absolutely everything.

FAULKNER: And you just heard what a possible defense could be.

BLAIR: You have everything to work with. And I got to say, what the defense attorneys are all going to say is, You use every excuse possible, every excuse possible, down to, It was somebody else and I wasn`t there. And that`s so typical. But all that`s going to do is prolong this case.

The only thing that`s missing is an eyewitness. There is the blood. There is the stab wounds. There is the footprint. There`s the cross this young man carved into this woman`s back. There`s other clothing that has blood on it, everything to point directly to him, and all the defense is going to do, any kind of defense -- and surely, an insanity defense -- is just going to prolong this case. There is no way that`s going to fly in this case.

FAULKNER: All right. Let`s go back to Dr. Ashenmil for just a moment. You know, one of the things that strikes me, and we can`t say the word allegedly enough in all of this, but...

ASHENMIL: Right.

FAULKNER: ... one of the things that strikes me at least about this young man is he is described as kind of a turning point, going from a nice, friendly, quiet guy to someone who wore the markings of the Goth set, the long trenchcoat, becoming, you know, introverted, withdrawn. What is it about someone that is maybe a trigger point with him? I mean, what was maybe a -- what could possibly be a tell (ph) sign here?

ASHENMIL: Well, actually, one of the things that we always have to pay attention to is that there are certain age ranges that one is more susceptible to developing a mental illness than other age ranges. And so one of the things that -- one of the reasons I would so want a psychiatric evaluation is to really tease apart whether or not he was becoming symptomatic in any regard, in terms of a psychotic disorder.

FAULKNER: Well, one of the things we know is that he`d suffered some things coming up to the murder that took place, and that was the loss of his sister a couple of years ago, a dog that he was very, very close to. In fact, he thought one of the neighbors had driven over the dog. In fact, he thought perhaps Pamela Vitale had driven over the dog.

ASHENMIL: Right. And so I guess one theory could be, did he have a traumatic reaction, and in doing so, did he potentially create a heinous crime? I mean, it`s a possibility. It`s not something that I`ve often heard about.

FAULKNER: Would that be temporary insanity?

ASHENMIL: I guess. But you know, again, I`d -- I`d really just want more information. I understand that his sister died in a car accident, and understand that, ultimately, the dog needed to be put to sleep after having been hit by a car. So I don`t know whether or not these two events then led to him having a break of some sort.

FAULKNER: All right. Stay right where you are, everybody. We`re going to keep visiting this case.

But now to "Case Alert." Breaking news tonight in the disappearance of Theresa Hullback (ph), a Wisconsin photographer missing more than a week. The special prosecutor investigating the case today charged Steven Avery (ph) with weapons possession. Avery`s lawyer says he does not think the weapon was related to Hullback`s disappearance. Her SUV was found at a salvage yard that Avery`s family owns. Investigators have been searching the property.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF JERRY PAGEL, CALUMET COUNTY, WISCONSIN: Significant evidence has been discovered over the past 24 hours at the Avery salvation salvage yard, and we are in contact with the state crime lab and they are analyzing evidence as we speak. They have -- they feel that the evidence that they are -- that has been collected and that they are analyzing is that of human in nature.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Hullback was last seen when she was going to a photo shoot. One stop was at the Avery salvage yard. Avery said she took the pictures and then drove off.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NANCY GRACE, HOST: Steven (ph), I understand that Theresa came to your auto salvage lot to take photos for the "Auto Trader," correct?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, she did. She came down by me.

GRACE: OK. And Steven, it`s my understanding that, also, you state that you saw her car leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I did.

GRACE: How is it that her car could get all the way back in this pit area?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, on the -- on the outskirts of the office, (INAUDIBLE) back by me or back by (INAUDIBLE) pit, in the corner, is all open.

GRACE: It`s all open.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Anybody can drive in there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: The perpetrator likely came right up here, knew exactly where he was going.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just wore black trenchcoat, all black pants, black shirt.

HOUSE: He was always shy. He was always respectful. He was -- he babysat for me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... that you committed a felony in violation of penal code section 187, murder...

GRACE: Whoever killed Pamela Vitale knew exactly where they were going. They knew how to get in. They knew what to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I -- I just feel that the Scott that we know would never have done anything like that.

DANIEL HOROWITZ, WIFE BLUDGEONED TO DEATH: If you have a picture of her, every picture that you ever have of her has love. And I came home every day to that, every single day. That`s (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: I`m Harris Faulkner, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. We`re talking about the Scott Dyleski case. And what you`ve just seen there are people talking about the case, talking about knowing Scott, and of course, Daniel Horowitz and his wife, Pamela Vitale, the victim in all of this, a very gruesome murder scene at a mobile home that was on their property. You see the couple there. They were building their dream home, temporarily staying in a mobile home.

And young Scott, just 17 years old, 16 when the crime happened, accused of going onto that property -- and the property actually is not far from where Dyleski and his mother were living with another group of people. They were housemates together. But Scott Dyleski accused of going to the property, going to that mobile home, and a very, very bloody, bloody scene as Pamela Vitale was beaten to death there.

Let`s go now to "Inside Edition" reporter Jim Moret, who`s been covering this case. And Jim, I`m most curious about a gag order in this case.

JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, The judge issued a gag order, and Gloria Allred represents Scott Dyleski`s girlfriend, and Gloria Allred actually was scheduled to be on this show last week, and she was barred from appearing because of that gag order.

There`s a hearing that was originally scheduled for tomorrow. It`s now been moved to November 16. Gloria Allred, you may remember, represented Amber Frey in the Scott Peterson murder case, and she was very outspoken during in that trial, although she was always very careful never to mention the testimony, upcoming or past, of her client, and she`s promised to do so in this case, and she`s going to be fighting that gag order.

FAULKNER: Well, and I understand that when the judge issued this, her name was in the documents, Gloria`s name.

MORET: Well, at first it wasn`t, and Gloria was going to appear on this show, and the district attorney went to the judge. The judge said, Ms. Allred, you are included in this gag order because the gag order applies not only to witnesses but to their attorneys, as well.

FAULKNER: And what about the talk up until now? I mean, what damage, you know, has been done? Because in that document, I read where the judge was actually quoting some of the things that Gloria Allred had said.

MORET: Well, you know, there`s been a lot said about this case already. And you look at the gruesomeness of this crime -- Debra Opri mentioned earlier that one of the levels that she might choose to attack this case is one of motive. We`ve heard a couple of potential motives, but frankly, none of the motives suggested really makes sense when you compare it to the level of brutality of this case. And you look at the pictures of Scott Dyleski before, when he was in that Goth mode, you look at him today, and frankly, none of this makes sense. It`s very difficult to absorb all of the facts. But just talking about it on television has really very little to do with what those jurors are going to ultimately decide in this case.

FAULKNER: All right. Thank you very, very much. We`ll check back with you, Jim Moret from "Inside Edition."

A quick update now on Natalee Holloway, the Alabama girl who went missing in Aruba last May. Alabama governor Bob Riley calling for a nationwide travel boycott of Aruba. Riley says the boycott should be kept in place until Aruban authorities step up cooperation with Natalee`s family to solve the case.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOUSE: When I first met him, he was kind of the Goth. So that was later on that he started shaving his hair in weird places and just sort of random hairstyles and things. He usually wore his hair just, you know, maybe shoulder length, and then -- and dyed it black and occasionally put some tints in it. And then one day when I saw him, he just shaved different sections of it. Just seemed kind of a bizarre new look.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Welcome back. I`m Harris Faulkner, in tonight for Nancy Grace. You`re hearing a description there of 17-year-old Scott Dyleski.

Let`s go straight away to Ted Rowlands, CNN correspondent who`s been in the courtroom today, where Scott pleaded not guilty to murder one charges. Tell me about his demeanor in court today.

ROWLANDS: Well, before the hearing began, before the judge and the prosecutor were in the courtroom, he was talking with his defense attorney, and he was laughing at times. He seemed very relaxed and was having a back-and-forth...

FAULKNER: He was laughing?

ROWLANDS: ... discussion and they -- well, they -- some sort of inside joke. I`m not saying that he was up there laughing about his predicament. But I`ll tell you, as soon as the judge got into the courtroom, he tightened up a bit, and then he was very hard to hear. When he was asked for responses of, Do you understand what`s going on, and, Do you understand this, Do you understand that, he sort of nodded, and they said, Mr. Dyleski, you have to say yes. Do you understand? And then he would sort of whisper, Yes. But very soft-spoken, once the proceedings started.

You got the feeling that the magnitude of it hit home when the court came to order, and beforehand, he was just idly chit-chatting with his public defender. And it was a short appearance. But I must say that this -- this hearing, he seemed much more relaxed than the others ones, where he seemed obviously frightened the first couple times he was in court.

FAULKNER: And I know you talked to some of his friends who were supporting him today because you didn`t have family members showing up, you said.

ROWLANDS: Yes. He had a group of friends that came out and said that they wanted to show him that they`re still his friends. And they were a bit upset with the way he`d been portrayed in the media. And they said that the death of the sister, in their opinion, didn`t have anything to do with it. His Goth dress didn`t have anything to do with it. But then, when we asked, Well, what, as friends, do you think happened here, if, indeed, he is guilty, and they didn`t have any answer. They don`t know, either. And...

FAULKNER: All right.

ROWLANDS: ... it`s just a complicated case when a 16-year-old is accused of something horrific like this. I don`t think there`s any clear- cut answer on what happened.

FAULKNER: Ted Rowlands, our CNN correspondent there in California, where this is playing out, thank you so much. Dyleski being held without bail, due back in court December 8. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hello. I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Updating a developing story here. Suicide bombers are thought to be behind three simultaneous attacks at hotels in Amman, Jordan. The blasts killed 67 people and wounded more than 150. Terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi is a prime suspect. The Jordanian-born Zarqawi is head of the Iraqi branch of Al Qaeda.

In Tennessee, a school principal shot trying to wrestle a gun away from a student is now being called a hero. Gary Seale and Assistant Principal Jim Pierce are both in the hospital with gunshot wounds. Assistant Principal Ken Bruce died in that attack.

And the "New York Times" reporter who went to jail for refusing to reveal her source in the CIA leak investigation is retiring from the newspaper. Judith Miller said she was quitting because, quote, "I have become the news, something a `New York Times` reporter never wants to be."

And that`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911: What`s your name?

ANDREA YATES, MOTHER WHO DROWNED CHILDREN: Andrea Yates.

911: What`s the problem?

YATES: I just need them to come.

911: Is your husband there?

YATES: No.

911: Well, what is the problem?

YATES: Well, I need them to come.

911: I need to know why we`re coming, ma`am. Is he there standing next to you?

YATES: No.

911: You need an ambulance?

YATES: No. I need a police officer. Yes, send an ambulance.

911: What`s the problem, someone burglarizing your house? I mean, what is it? What kind of medical problem do you have, ma`am? Hello?

YATES: I just need a police officer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: So chilling. As I tell you more, you`ll remember the case.

Good evening, everyone. I`m Harris Faulkner sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace.

She was sent away for life in prison. And tonight, Andrea Yates, the woman convicted of killing her young children, is getting a new trial. You may remember, it was June 20, 2001, in a taped confession -- Yates was 37 at the time -- she told police she filled the bathtub three inches from the top and drowned her children one by one in their suburban Houston home.

Let`s find out exactly what happened in court today. Live from Houston, Scott Braddock, a reporter with KTRH Radio -- Scott?

SCOTT BRADDOCK, REPORTER, KTRH RADIO: Good evening, Harris.

FAULKNER: Well, Scott, first of all, what did happen in court today?

BRADDOCK: What happened today was the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals, which is the highest criminal appeals court, obviously, in Texas, did what the Supreme Court does when it says it`s not willing to hear a case. It basically said that the lower court, which ruled that Andrea Yates is entitled to a new trial, they said that that should stand.

And so now, the prosecution and the defense in the case, they`re back at square one, basically. What they have to do now is decide to either go to trial and try this whole thing over again, as we saw it play out before, or they can try to strike a plea deal.

FAULKNER: And, Scott, you`ve been covering this for a while and been in court at times. You were there today.

BRADDOCK: Well, actually, I wasn`t in court today but I`ve been talking with the attorneys. This was a decision that came down from the criminal court of appeals.

FAULKNER: OK.

BRADDOCK: But talking with a lot of the attorneys today, including the prosecutors in the case, which they`re telling us now that what they`re doing is starting all over, looking at it as if that haunting phone call that we just heard a few moments ago, as if it had just happened yesterday or today. They`re starting over.

FAULKNER: Well, when you hear it, it brings it all back, that day, June 20th. Let`s listen to a little bit more of that 911 call.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

911: Are you there alone?

YATES: Yes.

911: Andrea Yates?

YATES: Yes.

911: Your husband there with you?

YATES: No.

911: Well, why do you need the police, ma`am?

YATES: I just need them to be here.

911: For what?

YATES: I just need them to come.

911: Are you sure you`re alone?

YATES: No, my kids are here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: We want to go now to George Parnham, who was Andrea Yates` defense attorney the first time around in the first trial. Mr. Parnham, thank you for joining us tonight.

GEORGE PARNHAM, YATES` DEFENSE LAWYER: You`re welcome. Thank you very much for having me.

FAULKNER: If you would, first of all, tell me what your response is to seeing your former client now get a second trial.

PARNHAM: Well, we have pursued this issue, as far as the mental health matters are concerned, through the appellate process. The team that we were able to put together did an excellent job in making certain that these issues were properly presented.

I am relieved, to a certain extent, and looking forward to present issues on mental health to a jury in the relatively near future.

FAULKNER: So you`re concentrating on that side of it. And let me ask you this. And I know that there have been reports that Andrea`s going to be moved to the Harris County jail in Houston, a lower-security place than where she is now.

I`m curious, if she going to get the kind of psychiatric and psychological treatment that she`s been getting and that doctors have said that she needs?

PARNHAM: I`m glad you brought that up. I have been working arduously over the last few months to see if we could come up with a procedure that would permit her continued medical care.

She still receives daily dosages of anti-depressants and anti- psychotic medications. To receive that care in a facility that is not in a penitentiary, that is, no armed guards, no razor wire, et cetera.

We may have come up with a suitable solution. I feel certain that the systems that are in place outside the penitentiary would be more than sufficient, regardless of whether or not it is in Rusk or in the Harris County MHMRA unit, to care for her needs during the course of the unraveling of this case.

FAULKNER: Mr. Parnham, stay close. I want us first to listen to a jailhouse interview with Andrea Yates.

PARNHAM: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would that be way out?

YATES: For the children?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

YATES: They would go to heaven. They`d be safe up there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And how would that happen?

YATES: After I killed them, they`d get up to heaven to be with God, be safe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you figured that was a way out of what?

YATES: It`s not a way out. It`s just something I was told to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who told you to do that?

YATES: Satan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Satan told you to send your children to heaven?

YATES: No. To kill them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Mr. Parnham, we know that the jurors did not decide that the death penalty was appropriate for Andrea Yates the first time around. What`s the possibility of them considering that again?

PARNHAM: I think the death penalty is off the table. The jury made a determination in the last trial that Andrea was not a future danger to society. Once that decision is made by a jury, that pretty much stops the state from trying to seek the death penalty again. And I`ve been told that the state will not seek the death penalty in this case.

FAULKNER: All right. Mr. George Parnham, thank you very much. Andrea Yates` defense attorney, we appreciate you joining us.

PARNHAM: Thank you.

FAULKNER: Let`s go to now a family member -- absolutely -- a family member, Reverend Fairy Caroland. She is the great aunt of the Yates` children. And if we can get her on the line -- are you there?

FAIRY CAROLAND, GREAT AUNT OF YATES` CHILDREN: Yes. Hello.

FAULKNER: Hi. Thank you for joining us.

I know that you have been very, very supportive of your relative, Andrea Yates. You were very close to the children. What`s your response tonight to finding out that she`s getting a new trial?

CAROLAND: Well, I`m both nervous and hopeful. The trial is very rough, I know, for Andrea and the rest of the family. I hate the thought of her having to go through another trial. I don`t know how she may handle that.

She`s had three psychotic breaks since she`s been in the psychiatric unit of the prison where she resides. And I don`t know how this might affect her. I`m hoping a plea bargain will be what happens and that it will result in her being hospitalized.

FAULKNER: Reverend, when you talk about three psychotic breaks, tell me exactly what you mean. I mean, what has been she been going through?

CAROLAND: Well, other people would know more specifically, really, about them than I would, because I haven`t been able to visit her. I have written her, and she`s written me, but there have been times when she has asked why Rusty or why her mother did not bring the children to visit her at times.

She also mentioned a -- I believe it was a stake out front and the prison. She asked Rusty once if he saw that, because that`s where that she was going to be burned at the stake. She believed that at one point.

FAULKNER: Will you be in further court cases, I mean, in further trial proceedings to support her at this point?

CAROLAND: Yes. If she goes back to trial, I`ll definitely go to Houston.

FAULKNER: All right. Reverend Fairy Caroland, the great aunt of the Yates` children. Thank you so much.

Stay close with us tonight. I`m going to talk now with Lisa Kaplan Ashenmill.

And, Doctor, you heard the great aunt there talking about the psychotic breaks. If you could visit that quickly for me, what is that like for her?

LISA KAPLAN ASHENMILL, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, think of a psychotic break as a loss of reality. So what you might be experiencing on a day-to-day basis all of a sudden goes away.

FAULKNER: So that`s why she can`t remember that the kids are gone?

ASHENMILL: So she`s going to become very confused. She`s not going to know what`s happened. She might be hearing things. We had a reference to Satan and being burned at the stake.

FAULKNER: Sure.

ASHENMILL: And that`s been going on with her for years. And oftentimes when people are under extreme amounts of stress, regardless of taking medication, they have relapses. And this would be a relapse.

FAULKNER: All right. Doctor, thank you.

Now to "Trial Tracking." The intense search for a missing 40-year-old Georgia hair stylist continues tonight. Police suspect foul play in the disappearance more than two weeks ago of Leslie Adams.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERTA ADAMS, LESLIE`S SISTER: She was always the first person to call me, and wake me up, and say, "Happy birthday." And she never called me.

I don`t care if I have to comb the whole Atlanta, I`m going to find my sister. I`m going to find my sister.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Still no suspects in this case, despite a restraining order Adams had filed against her ex-boyfriend just five days before she was reported missing. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... number 880205, the state of Texas versus Andrea Pia Yates. We, the jury, find the defendant, Andrea Pia Yates, guilty of capital murder as charged in the indictment, signed by the foreperson.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: I`m Harry Faulkner sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace.

Andrea Yates accused, convicted of killing all five of her young ones, never in dispute. She confessed on tape. What was her mental state? Why did she do it?

Jim Moret, our chief correspondent from "Inside Edition," we`re going to go straight away to him.

And just a couple of questions for you. First of all, her case overturned today. Why?

JIM MORET, CORRESPONDENT, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, basically, it was on the testimony of a forensic psychiatrist who`s called by the prosecution who testified incorrectly that, prior to Andrea Yates drowning her children, that an episode of the TV show "Law and Order" had a similar plot line where a woman with post-partum depression killed her children and was then tried and got off based upon an insanity plea.

And the idea was that Andrea Yates saw the show and was basically learning how to get away with this crime. The problem was, there never was such an episode of "Law and Order." And the upper court ruled that the jury could have incorrectly based its decision to convict her on that testimony.

FAULKNER: All right. Jim, thank you.

We did hear from Andrea Yates in a recent jailhouse interview with CNN. Let`s take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you thinking?

YATES: What was I thinking? Why did I do it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

YATES: Because I didn`t want them tormented by Satan like I was.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Was Satan tormenting you then?

YATES: Yes, he was (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In what way?

YATES: Just the thoughts, bad thoughts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: And I should correct myself there. It wasn`t recent to now. It was right after the trial, or rather the deaths of her children at that point.

Her appeals attorney winning a victory in all of this, Troy McKinney. And he is here with us tonight.

Mr. McKinney, tell me about what your take is on what happened in court and what it took to get there.

TROY MCKINNEY, YATES` APPEALS ATTORNEY: Well, clearly, what happened in court was that Park Dietz didn`t just testified incorrectly, he testified falsely. This is a man who was the only expert for the state, rendered an opinion that he believed that Andrea Yates was sane and was the only one to say so.

And it turns out that at least one other of his major opinions, you know, was false. And if the opinion concerning the "Law and Order" episode was false, then people could reasonably question the veracity and the truthfulness of his opinion concerning her sanity, as well.

FAULKNER: Well, what`s the bottom line with this case? I mean, She confessed that she did this. She told police the details of what she did with these children. The 6-month-old baby lying on the floor screaming, while she was one-by-one drowning the other children.

Is that the heart of the issue? Are you going to argue that it didn`t happen, or are you going to argue insanity at the time?

MCKINNEY: Oh, no. Clearly, there is no dispute about whether it happened. The issue in this case is whether Andrea was sane or insane.

And given her mental history, given the numerous hospitalizations, given the medications she was on, given all the advice from the doctors, she was clearly psychotic at that time, was not in control of her faculties, did not know right from wrong, in the sense that we all understand it on a day-to-day basis.

FAULKNER: And how do you make the argument different? Because didn`t the jurors in the last trial hear some of that?

MCKINNEY: Well, they did hear some of that. But what they also heard -- and was the critical reason for the reversal -- was they heard Park Dietz tell this jury...

FAULKNER: Sure.

MCKINNEY: ... that she had been able to concoct this plan by watching this episode of TV that she was interested in. If you take that away, that makes their case substantially less persuasive.

There was overwhelming evidence that she had a long-term, ongoing mental health issue, and a severe one, not just a casual, "I feel bad," but one that resulted in repeated, numerous, lengthy hospitalizations, during which she was out of touch with reality completely.

FAULKNER: Well, Mr. McKinney, you know, we`ve heard her great aunt on the program tonight even allude to the fact that she`s out of touch, at least in three episodes since she`s been in prison, with reality.

What are your concerns about her being ready for a trial at this point?

MCKINNEY: Well, clearly, it`s going to take an adjustment period for her, when she gets back to the Harris County jail. It`s going to take some good doctors to have her in a position where she can both handle the trial and participate and aid counsel in the trial itself.

FAULKNER: And she`s not just going to go free, if you get what you`re seeking. So what is going to happen, if you get what you`re seeking?

MCKINNEY: Oh, absolutely not. She certainly will not go free. Her best-case scenario -- and this is actually what we`ve been trying to get all along -- her best-case scenario is if she is found not guilty by reason of insanity, she gets committed to a maximum security mental facility, a psychiatric hospital, where she remains probably for the rest of her life.

FAULKNER: All right. Mr. McKinney, thank you so much.

We`re going to ask prosecutor Nelda Luce Blair now to talk a little bit about what the prosecution would do to prepare for a possible trial, in all of this.

BLAIR: Prosecution`s going to do exactly what they did last time. They put on a very, very good case against Andrea Yates.

You know, the question is not whether she had postpartum depression or was even psychotic. The question was, did she know what she was doing was wrong at the time she did it?

And I think that even the juror interviews after the case was over strictly say they knew that Andrea Yates knew what she was doing. She waited until her husband went to work to kill these kids one by one. She struggled with them, hauling them down the hall and into the bathtub to drown them.

She did it before her mother-in-law was supposed to show up in a time period that she knew she could get away with it. And most of all, she called the police. She didn`t call her best friend, or her clergyman, or her family member. She called the police, where the people that you call when a crime has been committed.

FAULKNER: Well, she called 911.

BLAIR: She knew exactly -- and asked for a policeman to come out, not an ambulance, a policeman. And that`s exactly what people who know what they`re doing is wrong do. That`s exactly what they do.

And I think that everything that she did, what convicted Andrea Yates had nothing to do with Park Dietz or the "Law and Order" episode testimony. It had to do with what Andrea Yates did and what she said.

FAULKNER: Well, and you know, one of the things, too, that the doctor has said tonight, Dr. Ashenmill, has said is that she`s coming in and out of this reality. I went to talk a little bit more about that.

But for now, quickly, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin."

FBI and law enforcement across the nation are looking for this man -- take a look -- Darryl Brown. He`s wanted in connection with a Reno, Nevada, bank robbery last Thursday. Brown is believed to be traveling with his 9-year-old son who is blind and severely handicapped.

Brown is 32-years-old, 6`3", 300 pounds, with black hair and brown eyes. If you have any information on Darryl Brown, call the FBI, 775-745- 8676.

Now, local news is next for you some of you. And we will be right back. And remember, live coverage of 11-year-old Carlie Brucia`s murder trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV.

Stay with us as we remember Staff Sergeant Kyle Wehrly, 28, an American hero.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you trying to accomplish now, when you did to take your children`s lives?

YATES: To end their innocent years and God would take them up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) their innocent years and God would take them up? Is that what you said?

YATES: Being with him, yes, yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: God would take them up to be in heaven? Is that what you mean?

YATES: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. And if you had not taken their lives, what did you think would happen to them?

YATES: I guess they would have continued stumbling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And where would they end up?

YATES: Hell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FAULKNER: Andrea Yates behind bars, but tonight she will get a new trial. I`m Harris Faulkner sitting in for Nancy Grace.

Laurie Kendrick is a news director and a radio announcer with KFNC. Good evening, Laurie.

LAURIE KENDRICK, KFNC NEWS DIRECTOR: Hi, Harris. How are you?

FAULKNER: Great, thank you. I know that you can talk a lot about the psychotic episodes that the community there witnessed of Andrea Yates. Tell me a little bit about her psychological background.

KENDRICK: She had two psychotic episodes in the months prior to the murders in the summer of 2001. The first time -- well, she actually tried to kill herself. She did an overdose of pills.

The second time she called her husband in a frantic state and asked him to come home from his job at NASA. He did and found her with a knife held to her throat, and he was able to disarm her, so suicide attempt thwarted.

But she had been on Haldol, an anti-psychotic as prescribed by her psychiatrist, and responded relatively well to that. And then, for some reason, which is always very often the case when you have psychotic depressives, she stopped taking her medication and, consequently, we all know what happened.

FAULKNER: All right. And, Laurie, I know people, your listeners, have been calling in, a lot of talk about this. Very quickly, what is the consensus now?

KENDRICK: The consensus now is pretty much the same today as it was when the murders happened back in 2001, pretty much divided along gender lines. We talk to men all day long on FM news channel 97.5 who thought she was crazy, throw away the key. And then we talked to women, very sympathetic to her cause.

FAULKNER: All right.

KENDRICK: Most, many thought she never should have prosecuted in the first place.

FAULKNER: Laurie Kendrick with KFNC Radio, news director there. Thank you so much.

I want to thank all of my guests for joining us tonight. Coming up, headlines from around the world and Larry King on CNN. And tomorrow night, join us for the latest on the radio talk show star accused of spiking his wife`s Gatorade with deadly antifreeze.

I`m Harris Faulkner, sitting in for my friend, Nancy Grace, tonight. We`ll see you right back here tomorrow night, 8:00 Eastern.

END

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