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NANCY GRACE

Nancy Grace for August 25, 2005, CNNHN

Aired August 25, 2005 - 20:00:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


NANCY GRACE, HOST: Tonight, live to Aruba. A TV camera crew waltzes right into the jailhouse that is housing prime suspect in the Natalee Holloway disappearance, judge`s son Joran Van Der Sloot. Now, with the cameras rolling, one question after the next fired straight at Van Der Sloot. Tonight, his lawyers up in arms, trying to make sure the world never sees the jailhouse footage.
And in the dark of the night -- imagine this -- a Hollywood mega- producer makes an emergency phone call saying he`s being chased through an LA ravine by people with dogs. The man runs, terrified, barefoot. Tonight, Christian Julian Irwin, missing.

Good evening everybody. I`m Nancy Grace, and I want to thank you for being with us tonight.

Tonight, the highly unusual disappearance of a Grammy-nominated music producer, last heard from in the middle of the night on a frantic cell call, barefoot, without his glasses, chased down an LA ravine by people and dogs, never seen again.

First, tonight, live to Aruba. Honor student set to start classes as a college freshman, full scholarship at University of Alabama. Instead, teams are searching the tiny island of Aruba for her body. Natalee Holloway vanished into thin air from her high school senior trip. Tonight, countdown, just nine days until prime suspect Joran Van Der Sloot could walk free. And a TV crew turns up behind bars in the cellblock. Tonight, Van Der Sloot`s defense battles to make sure none of us ever see the footage. And now the warden who let the TV crew in has been suspended.

Tonight, in New York, investigative report Diane Dimond, defense attorney David Foley. In Orange, California, defense attorney David Wohl. In New York, clinical psychologist Dr. Patricia Saunders.

But first to WBMA-TV reporter Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, bring me up to date, friend.

ANASTASIYA BOLTON, WBMA-TV: Nancy, as you were speaking about the TV crew, it`s the NBC television crew who got permission from the warden to go inside the prison, get a tour. And while they were getting a tour, I`m told they happened to see Joran. They took some pictures of him and tried to ask him some questions. He was unresponsive.

However, they were not supposed to do that. That is the ruling from the judge, who made sure that this NBC footage will never see the light of day. If it does, he will fine the network $600,000 each time it makes air. And yes, the warden has been suspended because we`re told the minister of justice should have approved that tour. And that generally takes at least several months.

Also, no word yet on when Joran may be questioned again. This is today, is two weeks since he was last questioned by authorities. We do understand they have plans to question him. But when, we are not sure.

GRACE: Anastasiya -- Anastasiya, let me just guess the Dutch team of experts is still preparing their new tactics to examine Joran Van Der Sloot?

BOLTON: That`s what we understand. We understand that the tactics have been prepared. They just don`t have a timeline as to when Joran will be questioned again.

GRACE: You know, to Diane Dimond -- Diane, what`s the hold-up with these specialists that have been shipped in by the Dutch? They have been allegedly devising new tactics to question him for two weeks now. Nothing`s happening.

DIANE DIMOND, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: But Nancy, you`ve had clients like this or you`ve gone up against people like this in court. When they`re not saying anything, that`s hard to devise some sort of strategy to get them to say something. And you know as well as I do, if he just keeps his mouth shut, if there are no more leads coming from his mouth for them to follow, then he gets to walk free on September 4. It`s the smartest strategy around for him to take.

GRACE: Let`s get back to a video camera crew roaming freely through the jailhouse. As we know tonight, a warden has been suspended out of that Aruban jail. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANTONIO CARLOS, JORAN VAN DER SLOOT`S ATTORNEY: We filed a complaint against NBC and Ms. Michelle Kosinski of NBC. We are of the opinion that they are violating the privacy of our client. NBC, in a sneaky way, obtained access to Kia (ph) and they filmed our client while he was sitting in his cell.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: To Anastasiya Bolton. The defense is fighting tooth and claw so we will never see Joran Van Der Sloot behind bars. Apparently, he was lounging back in a pair of shorts, lying down, reading a paperback novel. Is that true?

BOLTON: As far as I understand, they did videotape him in his cell. I am not sure what was on the video. However, I do know they tried to ask him some questions, and he did not even say anything. Not that he refused to answer, he was silent.

GRACE: Very quickly to David Wohl. David, what is the impact of this crew taping Joran Van Der Sloot? It will never make its way into a courtroom.

DAVID WOHL, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Right, Nancy, typical defense attorneys. How dare NBC try to tape our client and maybe get a confession out of him and maybe try to get the truth out of him? We are outraged! I`ll tell you something. I don`t think the judge has any jurisdiction over NBC. I think NBC should have sent that tape to New York and let it air. Remember when Gloria Gomez did the interview of Scott Peterson after he became a suspect? I don`t see any difference here, Nancy. I really don`t. I think it should air.

GRACE: Well, you know what? There`s...

WOHL: They made a mistake.

GRACE: I think there`s actually, David Foley, a big difference. When you`re behind bars in custody, a whole set of rules apply, as opposed to when you`re in your dead wife`s home, kicking back, having a chat with Gloria Gomez. So David Foley, what do you think it is the defense is fighting so hard to hide from us?

DAVID FOLEY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: They`re not fighting hard to hide anything, under the circumstances, Nancy. This is par for the course. Every time we think, Gee, the Aruban authorities, they can`t make this any worse, it can`t be even a bigger debacle. I`m surprised they haven`t promoted the warden, at this point. I mean, what a comedy of errors! What a ship of fools! This case is going to be over, period. Just let the Aruban authorities handle it. They don`t know what they`re doing!

GRACE: You know, another issue -- to Anastasiya Bolton -- that`s a pretty hefty fine. And the reality is, an Aruban court can levy fines against someone in the U.S., but then the U.S. has to agree to uphold that. It`s a very complicated series of international treaties. But Anastasiya Bolton, regarding this video crew, how the heck did they get behind bars to wander beside Joran Van Der Sloot`s cell?

BOLTON: I understand that they got permission from the warden. Apparently, either the warden did not know the rules or just let them in. And of course, now he`s suspended, pending the investigation. But apparently, they were allowed in by him.

GRACE: Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARLOS: We argued before the judge that what NBC did was totally unacceptable, totally unethical, totally unprofessional, and that that has nothing to do with journalism, but that the only aim of what NBC has done was to try to tarnish and further prejudice the good -- the name of our client.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: OK, I`ve got a problem with that. That`s Van Der Sloot`s defense attorney. To Dr. Patricia Saunders. How is it maligning Joran Van Der Sloot? Now, first of all, I think that it`s wrong, it will never come into court. But look, you`ve got the guy kicked back in his skivvies, reading a paperback novel. The problem is, we all know that there are search teams out there looking for Natalee`s body right now, as he`s kicked back, reading a paperback.

PATRICIA SAUNDERS, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t see how it could possibly malign him. You know, in a way, this is like blaming the victim. The warden, who in our country would be an officer of the court, invites the camera crew in. And now his attorney is screaming as if they had drugged him and dragged him out and snuck in. It just doesn`t make any sense, Nancy. I don`t think the defense makes very much sense.

GRACE: Back to Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, it`s my understanding the dive team has not started diving, the Dutch inquisitors have not started questioning, and we are in a countdown, down to nine days and Van Der Sloot walks free. What do you expect to happen on September 4?

BOLTON: There are several things we expect to happen on September 4. First of all, the hearing may be held before September 4, where the judge may either decide to hold Joran for 30 more days, pending further investigation. Of course, that would require further proof from the prosecutors that Joran needs to stay behind bars. Or Joran will be charged with a crime, or he can walk free. But again, we`re getting varying reports as to when, exactly, the hearing could be. But the deadline to have that hearing is September 4.

GRACE: Diane Dimond, investigative reporter, has done a lot of background work on the Aruban case. Diane, what I`m hearing, what I`m reading behind the lines is, we all know September 4 is the deadline to make or break the case. That`s on a Sunday. so wouldn`t you expect that they would make some kind of a decision next week, preceding September 4?

DIMOND: Yes, I really do. And I think if he`s going to be released on September 4, it`ll probably be about 12:01 AM, when all the camera crews and all the reporters are home sleeping. It`s going to be a low-key affair, if they release do him.

You know, Nancy, it`s amazing to me that the Arubans, as you say, they can`t get their technique together. They can`t get the divers ready. But boy, they sure can have a hearing in the middle of the night on NBC, who was allowed into the prison, just doing their job. I hear that defense attorney for Van Der Sloot, and I have to laugh. The NBC crew didn`t do anything wrong. They did everything exactly right.

And I have to agree with Foley there. You know, I`m kind of surprised that NBC didn`t just get that footage back here to America and then make a decision, although I can understand it, Nancy, because they`re still there. They`re waiting to see what happens on September 4. They don`t want to be kicked out of that country.

GRACE: Well, I can tell you this much, Diane. I think I know why the defense doesn`t want us to see that video. You`ve got, what is he, 6-3 or 6-4, Van Der Sloot...

DIMOND: He`s 6-5, I think.

GRACE: OK, 6-5, lounged back, kicked back, reading a paperback novel while people are out combing the island, trying to find Natalee Holloway, while her mother is begging on the airwaves for help.

DIMOND: Yes, and this is not like Sing-Sing.

GRACE: While the reward rises, there he is, kicked back. Do we have NBC`s statement, Rosie (ph)? Let`s throw that up for a moment. NBC has a response. "We respected the court`s order and have therefore not broadcast the videotape of Joran Van Der Sloot. However, we did, in fact, have permission to be inside the prison. We are considering our next course of legal action."

OK. Let me guarantee everybody that NBC has a fleet of lawyers working on this. I guarantee you, they`ll find a way to air this video.

I want to get back to the facts of the case, though. September 4 is looming. Joran Van Der Sloot could walk free. We know they`ll do it, Diane, because we`ve already seen the Kalpoe brothers walk free. What I`m interested in is Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot. Hey, Rosie, do you have video of the judge hightailing it when either -- one of our senior reporters was trying to ask questions. He took off running.

Now, according to the gardener and the jogger, his story is a lie. So you`ve got to decide, Diane, who do you believe? What do you know about Paulus Van Der Sloot?

DIMOND: Well, I know exactly what you`re saying. This is...

GRACE: Whoa, there he is!

DIMOND: ... the first night -- there he is. The cameras were out there. And instead of saying, Gee, I have no comment, I have no comment -- remember, this is a judge in training. This is a man who`s supposed to be used to, you know, the pressure cooker. That`s what he did. And it made everybody`s antenna go up, I have to tell you.

You know, one thing about the prisons in Aruba, too. I hear that they`re not like Sing-Sing. They`re not terrible, overcrowded maximum security prisons. They`re pretty, you know, loungey, and there was Van Der Sloot, laying down, reading a book, saying, Oh, hi, there`s a camera crew. I heard that he did utter a few words back and forth with Michelle Kosinski, nothing substantive. But you know what? If they had permission to be there and he can see that camera and he said something to that reporter, I say that`s airable.

GRACE: Well, you know, the thing is, Anastasiya Bolton -- Anastasiya with WBMA-TV, on the case from the get-go -- I`m less worried about how NBC`s going to fare. I think they can take care of themselves. I`m more worried about whether Aruban officials can get it together and make a case before the court by September 4. Anastasiya, have they been able to track down the jogger?

BOLTON: The jogger is still a mystery, apparently. At this point, they`re making desperate attempts to find this person, actually encouraging him to call in because, again, he made a phone call from a pay phone, so they do not know the name or the whereabouts. So they`re desperate, grasping for straws at this point, Nancy.

GRACE: Quick break, everybody.

Tonight, "Safety Alert." A serial rapist on the loose in the New York-New Jersey area. Seen in this police sketch, he is linked now to six violent rapes. Police suspect there could be more. The suspect abducts women at knifepoint, beats, robs and rapes them. He is carrying a badge and handcuffs. Ladies, this is not an police officer, he is a predator. If you have any information on this man or these crimes, please call the Hudson County prosecutor`s office, 201-915-1234.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: Well, in Anderson, Indiana, they`re not afraid to say what they think. Here is the sign at the Lemon Drop restaurant. It`s a drive- in restaurant. It says, "Where is Natalee? Until answered, Aruba should not be visited by anyone worldwide." So says the Lemon Drop in Anderson, Indiana.

Speaking of public support, let me go straight back out to Anastasiya Bolton. Anastasiya, tell me about the fundraiser.

BOLTON: It`s an amazing event, Nancy. It was put together -- or the idea came from Courteney Cox Arquette, who, of course, is a graduate of Mountain Brook High School and is from this area. She came up with an idea of doing a silent auction. And at this point, close to 250 items were donated by famous folks like Alan Jackson, Brad Paisley. Nashville came out in a big way. Also, there is some sports memorabilia, some clothing from the designers. This is an event closed to the public, a silent auction. About 1,000 people are expected there tonight to raise money to find -- help find Natalee Holloway and help the family in any way possible.

GRACE: You know, interesting, Anastasiya, so many of the search efforts have been paid for out of civilians` pockets. In fact, this dive effort, that is being done by a private Aruban dive team. They`re starting that up as soon as they can get the funds and the equipment to get going. The search of the landfill -- hey, Rosie, if you could pull up a shot, a video of the landfill there in Aruba. It`s huge! That is being conducted by civilians on their own dime or by fundraisers like this, Anastasiya.

BOLTON: That is true. A lot of money has been raised here in Mountain Brook, in the Birmingham area and across the nation. But I do have to mention, though I`ve spoken with the police spokesperson yesterday, and he did say the Aruban police are still on this case. They`re still searching several areas. The Aruban police are working with two Florida dogs that are looking at several areas of interest. So they maintain...

GRACE: Really? Where? Where are they searching, Anastasiya?

BOLTON: They won`t say where exactly, but they say...

GRACE: Oh! It`s a secret!

BOLTON: ... they`re looking at areas that have been searched before.

GRACE: It`s a secret.

BOLTON: They just have a different way of operating over there, Nancy.

GRACE: OK, so even searches there have to be secret? David Wohl, are you buying that? BS! They`re not searching!

WOHL: No, I don`t think so Nancy. Look, as a defense attorney, let me tell you what`s going to happen September 4, unfortunately for the Holloway family.

GRACE: I don`t want to hear this.

(CROSSTALK)

WOHL: Nancy, there`s no blood. There`s no bodily tissue. There`s no murder weapon. There`s no evidence of a homicide. Your honor, let my client go, and then Van Der Sloot walks right out of jail. I`m telling you that`s going to happen. It`s tragic. But the defense attorney`s going to say, There`s no more evidence of a homicide than...

GRACE: Hey, whoa!

(CROSSTALK)

GRACE: Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! Were your two little fingers supposed to be Joran Van Der Sloot? Was that was that was?

WOHL: That was it, Nancy. It wasn`t very good.

GRACE: You know, he`s got a point, Diane Dimond. And you brought this up earlier. So far, the gardener has come forward with a sworn statement before a judge refuting the Kalpoe brothers and Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot. Have they been taken back into custody? No. Have they been re-questioned? No. Has there been another hearing? No. Has Joran Van Der Sloot been re-questioned by the Dutch experts? No. But they can have a hearing in the middle of the night about NBC and a camera crew.

DIMOND: That was allowed permission to go into the prison. Yes, I mean, exactly, Nancy. You know, what I`m thinking, I`m thinking about the only thing that they can do to satisfy the Holloway-Twitty family is, when and if they let this boy out on September 4, and I think that they probably will...

GRACE: He`s not a boy, he is an 18-year-old man.

DIMOND: A young man, anyway. I think the one thing that they could do is hold his passport.

GRACE: Oh, please~!

DIMOND: If they hold his passport, he will not be able to leave Aruba because I hear his family wants to get him on a plane and get him out of there, ostensibly to get to college.

GRACE: That`s right. That`s a slap on the wrist. Let him go home and watch the wide-screen TV at the judge`s house. Eighteen years old -- eighteen years old -- my dad was on a fighter ship in the Pacific at eighteen years old. And this guy`s kicked back in his boxer shorts, reading a paperback behind bars. Quick break, everybody.

Very quickly, to "Trial Tracking." The mother of Shannon Melendi took the stand at the murder trial for her 19-year-old girl. She and her husband broke down in tears as she recalled her last moments with her daughter, who disappeared 11 long years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YVONNE MELENDI, SHANNON`S MOTHER: You have to let them make their own mistakes, make their own decisions and find out that you -- whatever decisions you make, you have to pay the consequences for it. I just didn`t think one of the consequences would be her life!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran, we support you! You`re innocent! You don`t have any insurance to collect!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Joran, Joran, we support you! We support you! We support you! We support you!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: One of the many scenes there in Aruba, the tiny island of Aruba, from which Natalee Holloway, an American girl, disappeared.

To Diane Dimond. Diane have you heard anything, can you tell us anything regarding the arm that washed ashore in Venezuela?

DIMOND: Not a thing. And you know, I was talking to a forensic expert here in New York, who told me that the Venezuelan forensic labs are really pretty good. So I`m surprised that we haven`t heard anything. I guess there was a little bit of bone or flesh that they could have used, and maybe the marrow inside. But again, we haven`t heard a thing about that.

I`ll tell you what I have heard, though, Nancy. I have a lot of DEA sources, FBI sources. A friend of mine has just retired from the Secret Service. And they all have had experience on Aruba. And they tell me that this State Department, our State Department, is pretty upset about what`s been going on, not upset so much at Beth Twitty, because they have compassion for her and they understand. But Aruba is very important to America. They say it`s a transport spot for drugs to come and go. They -- apparently, the Arubans take extra care to try, try to get drugs not to come to America. They don`t quite take as much care to let them get to Europe. If there`s an extradition that needs to happen, the Arubans are on it like that for us. In this age of terror, if a terror suspect was to go and hide in Aruba, they`ve been very helpful in ferreting them out and getting them into American custody. So that`s what I`m hearing mostly from my police sources.

GRACE: Diane! Diane, you have got to be kidding me. They would ferret out a terrorist, when they couldn`t even impound a car out of the driveway?

DIMOND: Well, they`ve been very helpful to the State Department. You notice our State Department hasn`t said anything about this.

GRACE: OK, everybody. Quick break. We`ll all be right back. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

THOMAS ROBERTS, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, everybody. I`m Thomas Roberts. And this is your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."

Nearly 5 million residents along the coast of southern Florida are feeling the brunt of Hurricane Katrina. The Cat-1 hurricane has sustained winds of 80 miles-per-hour. Katrina made landfall this evening near Miami, and falling trees are already being blamed for two deaths. Forecasters predict more than a foot of rain in parts of Florida. Katrina is already the 11th named storm of a very busy hurricane season.

Seven-time Tour de France champ Lance Armstrong calls new allegations he took performance-enhancing drugs "preposterous." A French newspaper reporting a 1999 urine sample of Armstrong`s tested positive in a lab study, leading the director of the Tour de France to say that he was fooled by Armstrong. Armstrong is scheduled to appear on CNN`s "LARRY KING LIVE" tonight.

Gruesome developments out of Iraq. Police there discovered the bodies of 36 people in a river south of Baghdad, and they think they may have been there for as many as five days. All seem to have been killed assassin- style with a bullet to the head.

That is the news for now. Thanks for joining us. I`m Thomas Roberts. We take you back to NANCY GRACE.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our search-and-rescue team was called out that day, Sunday, began a search, and looked in a stream, and found his glasses, his eye-glasses. But he himself has not been seen or heard from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRACE: Can you imagine, in the middle of the night -- I`m talking 3:30 a.m. -- running for your life, ultimately barefoot, without your glasses, through a ravine near L.A., people with dogs chasing you? Well, according to a Grammy-winning artist, a mega producer, that`s what happened to him. All that`s left of him so far, his glasses.

With us tonight, in L.A., John and Sharon Riolo, sister and brother- in-law of the missing music producer; Captain Ray Peavy of the L.A. County Sheriff`s Office; in New York, Marc Klaas, president of Beyond Missing.

I want to go first to Diane Dimond, investigative reporter. Diane, what`s going on?

DIMOND: Well, it`s frightening. I mean, we talk so much about Natalee Holloway missing. But here it is in our own backyard. And I just -- my heart goes out to his family.

Like you say, 3:45 in the morning, he makes a series of three phone calls to a good friend of his, one hits an answering machine, the other two he gets his friend. He says, "I`m being chased." And he goes down a hill in Topanga Canyon, by a propane store, down into a ravine near a creek, and that`s where the scent from the dogs stops.

It`s a frightening thing, because I`ve been in that area. I used to live in the Los Angeles area, hike in that area. And this is not like you take a stroll down the hill. This is rugged. It`s really brushy and not a place you want to be in the middle of the night without your shoes, with people, or more than one person, and maybe even dogs chasing you.

The why is what intrigues me, Nancy.

GRACE: Rosie, do we have a picture of Christian Julian Irwin? He`s 48 years old, 6`2", 190 pounds, graying brown hair, blue eyes. There you go. Thanks. Last seen wearing a blue and red shirt, jeans, no shoes. Last heard from 3:45 a.m. Sunday morning.

This guy has won Emmys, Grammy-nominated. He`s worked with Queen Latifah, David Bowie, scads of stars.

Captain Ray Peavy, with the L.A. County Sheriff`s Office, why was he in a ravine running at 3:45 a.m. Why?

CAPT. RAY PEAVY, L.A. COUNTY SHERIFF`S OFFICE: Well, I wish I could answer that question. It would make my job a lot easier. We just don`t know.

GRACE: Well, what do you know?

PEAVY: Well, not a whole lot, I`m afraid. We know that, as was reported at 3:45, he called a very close friend and said he was in trouble, he needed help. His friend immediately came to help him.

When the friend got to the place that he had called from, which was this AmeriGas propane station, he was gone. He got another call from -- the friend got another call from him, saying that he was now running through a stream, that he was being chased by men with dogs. And shortly after that, the phone call ended. His friend tried to call him back and got his voice mail.

GRACE: Captain, any activity on his cellphone, credit cards, ATM, any?

PEAVY: Absolutely not. It was one of the first things we looked for, obviously. And there`s no activity at all on any of those things.

Our big concern is that, you know, that he fell, hurt himself, and is laying out there in this very rugged, rugged area, and is today...

GRACE: Well, if you believe his story, wouldn`t you be worried about people with dogs chasing him in the middle of the night?

PEAVY: Well, we`re worried about that, as well. We just -- you know, the bottom line is, we do not know for sure what occurred. Now, obviously, he was very threatened. There`s no doubt about that. He felt threatened.

Whether it was real or perceived, we don`t know at this point. We do know, though, that we want to find him. And we`re very concerned about his safety.

GRACE: I want to go to Sharon Riolo. She is the sister of Christian Julian Irwin. This guy has a sterling reputation.

Sharon, what do you think happened? I`m already hearing the captain saying, "Did he perceive of a threat?" I mean, tell me about your brother.

SHARON RIOLO, SISTER OF MISSING MUSIC PRODUCER: I think I know my brother well enough that -- I don`t know if it was just a perceived threat. I believe it was a real threat.

You know, he`s a pretty strong, capable man. And I think to have him bolt out of his house at 3:45 in the morning, there was a very good reason. And I think my whole family believes that wholeheartedly.

GRACE: Wasn`t there some suggestion this was tied in with a Nigerian Internet scam? He got very, very afraid just before this happened.

S. RIOLO: Well, because this is an ongoing investigation, we`re not commenting on anything.

GRACE: Well, it`s already been commented on by the family in the press.

S. RIOLO: We`re leaving that to the L.A. County Sheriff`s Department. And that`s their job. They`re the experts in that area.

And our main thrust is to get Chris back with us. We love him. We miss him. And it`s just really difficult on all of us. We want him back.

GRACE: John Riolo, when he called the friend, did the friend hear dogs? Did he hear the victim running? I mean, what could he hear in the background?

JOHN RIOLO, BROTHER-IN-LAW OF MISSING MUSIC PRODUCER: I haven`t had an extensive conversation with his friend, but I don`t believe, at the time, he heard dogs. It was, from what I understand, a short conversation.

And, you know, he was out of breath, and running down a creek, and, you know, he was trying to get information about where he was and who was chasing him.

GRACE: OK. Diane, do we know anything else these people heard when he made these phone calls?

DIMOND: No, no, we really don`t. But back to that Nigerian Internet scam. I mean, I can comment on it a little bit on it, because I`ve gotten those notes in my e-mail box. Probably you have, too, Nancy.

GRACE: Yes, but nobody gave me a $50,000 check. They were trying to get a check.

DIMOND: That`s the point, yes, exactly. There`s like 20 different permutations of this silly scandal. And it`s all Nigerian oil people, or diplomats, or something, and they need you to put up money so they can get a lot of money to this country, and then they`re going to share it with you.

And apparently, Christian responded to them by saying, "I`m not interested." But they took that as some sort of, "Oh, he is interested." And apparently, he got this $50,000 check. And I believe the sheriff`s department, you`ve got a copy of it, don`t you?

GRACE: Do you, Captain?

PEAVY: ... and the reality is, the check itself is a counterfeit check. So it was a valueless document.

Now, we believe that Christian believed that it was real. And he, in fact, sent the check back and was so concerned that he was that involved in it to that degree, because he did not want to be involved in this.

GRACE: OK, if he sent it back, how do you have a copy of it?

PEAVY: Well, he was smart enough to make a copy of it before he sent it back.

GRACE: Marc?

MARC KLAAS, FOUNDER OF BEYOND MISSING: Well, certainly, they have an address that it was sent to. They can certainly look at the address. They`ve got the point from his home to where they found the glasses, so they know the route that he took. They should be able to get evidence there.

And then, certainly, they should also be able to go into his hard drive and find out if this was, in fact, what was going on, and be able to get a wealth of information off of that hard drive. I mean, it seems to me that there`s a lot of information here that they can use to solve this case.

GRACE: David Wohl?

WOHL: Listen, this is how this works. I recently did a report on this for my fabulous affiliate, CBS-2 in Palm Springs. What happens is a Nigerian -- these crooks over there will send over a $50,000 check. They say it`s been inherited from some dead king in Nigeria.

They`ll say, "Listen. Cash it. You keep $10,000. Send $40,000 back to us, and there we go. A great deal."

The check is fraudulent. However, if they have enough money to cover it in their checking account, sometimes the check will let it go through. Then if that happens, and let`s say, for example -- I`m not saying this happened -- hypothetically, he didn`t send the money back, who knows? These crooks could be after him.

GRACE: But wait, but wait, but wait, but wait, we`re going so far out on a limb, David Foley. We know he sent the check back. We know it freaked him out. He made a copy of it. He told the sheriff about it. But I just don`t see the connection in some kooky check.

You know, when you get those sweepstakes things in the mail, they mean absolutely nothing. The managers running through a canyon for his life, according to him, David Foley. I don`t see the connection.

FOLEY: Well, Nancy, he shared this with his business partner. He talked to his sister about it, even though she`s not free to speak about it tonight. I mean, it`s something that obviously concerned him.

So I`d want to look extensively, obviously, at his computer hard drive, telephone records, financial records, and that general area and vicinity. And if he is out there, there should be widespread manhunt at this point, because, if he`s injured and he`s hurt, obviously, since Sunday, he has to be found safely.

GRACE: Quick break, everybody. There is a shot. We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our own way solve unsolved homicides, find missing people.

Tonight, take a look at 19-year-old Pamela Kinney. She disappeared from Apalachicola, Florida, August 14th, last seen wearing a white tank top, blue jean skirt. If you have any info on Pam Kinney, please contact the Franklin County sheriffs, 850-670-8500. Please, help us find Pam.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: A real star. Queen Latifah, just one of many stars that Christian Julian Irwin produced. Queen Latifah, De La Soul, Carly Simon, David Bowie, Vanessa Williams. This guy was Grammy-nominated, had won Emmys, a string of awards.

He is missing tonight. And according to frantic phone calls, he was last heard running through a ravine in L.A. shoeless, without his glasses, claiming that dogs and people were chasing him.

Dr. Patricia Saunders, clinical psychologist, what`s your take?

SAUNDERS: Well, obviously, this is the tip of an iceberg, Nancy. But considering the scams, some of these cons are very, very sophisticated. And it would not be unthinkable for even a smart, successful man like Chris Irwin to get sucked in, to get seduced into something, where he turns around and he`s way over his head.

GRACE: OK, let`s just follow along with that for a moment.

Captain, what do we know about any connection between this incident and some e-mail? We`ve all gotten these e-mails. Get a master`s degree, get a home mortgage. "We have money waiting for you at the bank. Just send us your Social Security and credit card number."

You know, it`s B.S. How does that equal him being missing?

PEAVY: It could be nothing more than a coincidence, quite frankly. But we are looking at that as a possibility, because...

GRACE: What else are you looking at?

PEAVY: Well, we`re looking at everything. We`re not limiting ourselves to anything. As I said before, he may have been being chased. We truly don`t -- we`re not saying that we don`t think that he was. However, we`re going to consider any possibility at this time until we know for sure what happened.

GRACE: What do you mean by any possibility?

PEAVY: Well, any possibility would include that he was maybe having emotional problems or anything you can imagine. You know, the fact of the matter is, we don`t know where he is. And he was obviously very, very frightened. Until we find him, we`re just not going to have answers to those questions.

GRACE: To Diane Dimond, what about the tracker dogs? Don`t they support his story?

DIMOND: Well, see, this is one big question mark for me, Nancy. Why would his scent come down the hill to the petroleum store, down the ravine, and stop? Now, to me, that means something happened to maybe take him out of that spot, maybe one or more persons picked him up and took him somewhere.

It`s not -- it doesn`t equate in my head that the scent would just stop there. And I wonder, from the captain, what about that neighborhood? Has there been some break-in crimes there? Was his door tampered with? What did you find at his house?

GRACE: That`s a good question. What did you find at his house?

PEAVY: The house seemed to be in normal condition. The place had not been broken into.

What we theorize happened is that something frightened him very badly, causing him to run from his house. We believe he ran from his house shoeless -- that`s how frightened he was -- and ran down the hill.

As far as the dog losing the scent, there is water down there. And oftentimes, you know, when people get into the water, that does stop the scent.

GRACE: To Sharon Riolo, the sister of Christian Julian Irwin, had he ever disappeared before? Has he ever just taken a powder for a period of days or weeks?

S. RIOLO: Never. This is completely out of character for Chris. And that`s what terrifies us as a family. This is not something he would do.

GRACE: You know, Marc Klaas, you have lived through someone missing, your daughter. Marc is wearing his daughter, Polly Klaas, on his chest right now. Polly was murdered. What do you do?

KLAAS: Well, you do several things. First of all, one wishes that, instead of calling his friend three times, he`d called 911 at least once. But at this point, they have a wealth of resources available to them. They`ve got Queen Latifah. They`ve got Vanessa Williams. They`ve got David Bowie. They can hold fundraisers. They can raise a ton of money and they can use that money to launch their own investigation or to otherwise keep the police on track and find this young man.

And what I would do is I would start planning ahead. I`d get a white board. I`d put a calendar grid on it. And I`d start putting things together for weeks in advance so that, when you need another resource, when you need to get this story back out there, you have a plan of action and you can get it moving forward.

GRACE: Marc Klaas has founded Beyondmissing.com. It`s about missing people. So how is this adding up? What do you think?

KLAAS: I don`t...

GRACE: And remember, when tracking dogs, even if you`re picked up and taken away, that doesn`t mean you lose your scent. You still smell the same. The dog will follow that until you go in a car and leave the area.

KLAAS: You know, that`s absolutely true. And I can`t make heads or tails out of this case. It doesn`t make sense to me that somebody would be running from anything at 3:45 in the morning. That`s certainly not to say that it didn`t happen. It`s just that I can`t put the scenario together that makes this work.

GRACE: And very quickly to Dr. Saunders. What could make someone so afraid -- all right, I hear the captain saying maybe he was being chased, maybe he wasn`t -- but what could make him so afraid he would take off running and disappear?

SAUNDERS: Well, he raised the question of emotional problems. And that would suggest that he might have had a psychotic break with paranoid delusions. Psychotic breaks just don`t happen overnight. There would have been a lot of warning signs, and I`m sure his family would have picked it up.

GRACE: Yes, but the thing is, to Sharon Riolo, his sister, who is with us, this guy has been under total pressure, your brother, before. He has produced David Bowie, Art Garfunkel, musicians like most of us could never even imagine. He can handle stress.

S. RIOLO: Yes.

J. RIOLO: Absolutely. Absolutely.

GRACE: OK. Final thought, Sharon?

S. RIOLO: My final thought, well, for one, we want to thank you for your time. My family wants to thank you. And we`re just asking the public -- we`re pleading, if you know any information at all, even if it seems very trivial, please, please call the L.A. Sheriff`s Department.

GRACE: And you know, the other thing, Sharon, I don`t know what he was running from. I don`t know if it was real, if it wasn`t real, but he is missing. Please help us find Christian.

S. RIOLO: Exactly. Thank you so much.

GRACE: Very quickly, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin."

FBI and law enforcement across the country on the lookout for Rosemary Lorraine Godbolt Molder, wanted in connection with the `89 murder of her 5- year-old stepson, Rayshon Omar Alexxander, Fort Bliss, Texas.

Molder, 35, 5`1", 120 pounds, black hair, brown eyes. If you have any information on Godbolt Molder, call the FBI, 915-832-5000.

Local news next for some of you, but we`ll all be right back. And remember, live coverage of the daycare homicide trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern, Court TV`s "Closing Arguments."

Everybody, please stay with us as we honor Sergeant Micah Goulet. Micah is 22, an American hero. Micah`s heading back to service in Iraq next month for his second tour of duty with the 187th Infantry Regiment. To not only Micah, but to all of our soldiers for their bravery and sacrifice, thank you and God bless.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GRACE: If you are a crime victim with a story to tell, know of an injustice or a case that needs a spotlight, call 1-888-GRACE-01, 888-472- 2301 or go online, CNN.com/Nancygrace.

Welcome back. An award-winning mega producer missing, last heard from running through an L.A. ravine, shoeless, eyeglasses found behind. What happened to Christian Julian Irwin?

Very quickly to Captain Ray Peavy with the L.A. County Sheriff`s Office. This was on a Sunday, right, around 3:45 a.m. When was this reported?

PEAVY: It was reported right away. His friend notified the local sheriff`s station, and Christian actually made a couple of 911 calls, too, from his cellphone.

GRACE: Oh, I`m glad you told me that.

PEAVY: Yes, yes.

GRACE: What did he say in those?

PEAVY: Just that he need help. That was basically it.

GRACE: Diane Dimond, you`ve investigated this case. He actually mentioned this zany $50,000 check while he was running? So, obviously, he was making -- whether it was real or perceived -- a connection between that and the reason he was running.

DIMOND: You know, my investigative brain, Nancy, tells me that it`s not this Nigerian Internet scam. That`s just a guess. But he did say, you`re right, when he was on one of these three phone calls with his friend, that it might be about the money.

You know, in his mind, that`s what he was thinking. But I don`t know. I`m thinking more of a random crime, somebody tried to break into the house.

GRACE: But there`s no sign of break-in, according to the sheriff.

DIMOND: Yes, yes.

GRACE: OK. Very quickly, Marc Klaas, this is what you do. You help find missing people. Theory?

KLAAS: Theory? My theory is that the man`s had a mental breakdown of some kind, that this story doesn`t really hold a lot of water, but he is a missing man.

GRACE: Well, you know what? You may be right, but the reality is, just as his sister said, he was so afraid that night and he is missing, Christian Julian Irwin. I want to thank all of my guests tonight, but my biggest thank you tonight and every night is to you for being with all of us, letting all of us into your homes.

Coming up, headlines from all around the world. Larry on CNN. I`m Nancy Grace signing off for tonight. Hope to see you right here tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.

END

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