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CNN LIVE EVENT/SPECIAL

America Strikes Back: Talk with Former U.N. Chief Weapons Inspector Richard Butler

Aired October 15, 2001 - 07:54   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Until the terrorism attacks of September 11 and the subsequent anthrax cases, the last time Americans even heard much about bioterrorism was a decade ago during the Gulf War.

One of the people in charge of keeping those fears in check was the then chief weapons inspector for the United Nations -- Richard Butler joins me this morning -- on the Council of Foreign Relations now.

RICHARD BUTLER, FORMER U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Welcome back. Give us your quick reaction to the poll numbers that show that the majority of Americans are extremely frightened about anthrax and other bioterror weapons.

BUTLER: My reaction is that we must keep it in perspective. I understand people being frightened about it, because...

ZAHN: Are you afraid?

BUTLER: No, I'm not. And I haven't...

ZAHN: Well, I am.

BUTLER: ... and I haven't gone out and bought Cipra. OK? Anthrax is a terrible thing, and this is an act of terrorism. How else would you describe stuff showing up in the mail and directed at news organizations? One person is dead. It is serious, but we must keep this in perspective.

When you think of the various things that could happen in life, so far, you know, this is, you know, a very small incident. How it is happening is far more important.

ZAHN: OK. Explain to us...

BUTLER: Where is it coming from?

ZAHN: Well, where is it coming from?

BUTLER: That's what we need to know. We don't know. I don't believe that the terrorist groups -- al Qaeda, Osama bin Laden -- could themselves make anthrax. So it would have been made by a scientist somewhere, obviously.

What we've got to be certain about above all is whether it came from a country supporting these terrorists as a matter of policy, such as Iraq, which we know has made this stuff. And there is a credible report, not yet fully verified, that they may, indeed, have given anthrax to exactly the group that did the World Trade Center. So this is...

ZAHN: Well, what part of that...

BUTLER: ... what we've got to

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... OK. I know the reporting's early on that. What part of that -- what evidence is that that would show that where this report is going is true -- that Iraq in some way might have been involved?

BUTLER: It's not yet concluded. We're getting help on that, including by one of our coalition partners, the Egyptians. They feel that it's possible that not many months ago that anthrax -- a small quantity of it was handed over in Prague, Czechoslovakia to Mohammed Atta, one of the pilots of one of the planes that flew into the World Trade Center.

ZAHN: Sure.

BUTLER: And if that proves to be true, there is a connection, and the person who handed it over in Prague was an Iraqi. If that proves to be true, there is a connection. But as I've said to you before, Paula, this is a very difficult situation. We must be objective. We must stick to the facts.

I say this is an act of terrorism, and the proof of that is look at the terror that it has spread amongst the American people, even though the incidents themselves are relatively small. That's my point.

ZAHN: So on one hand...

BUTLER: So it has spread here.

ZAHN: ... you completely get why the American public is frightened. On the other hand, you're saying...

BUTLER: I get it.

ZAHN: ... keep it in perspective.

BUTLER: Keep it in perspective. This is, so far, small. And above all, remember this: In almost all cases, anthrax responds quite well to antibiotics, and it's not an incident where the minute you catch it, you start to die. You've got a good amount of time to have it checked out and get those antibiotics into you and to let them do their job. And so, the size of the incidents, so far, are small. This is treatable. We've got to keep it in perspective and not give the terrorists their victory that we stop our way of life and we start changing all of our behaviors, except checking the mail obviously. We've got to stay on course in a normal life.

But what we must do is find out: Where is this coming from? That's really crucial.

ZAHN: If this report is verified...

BUTLER: Uh-huh.

ZAHN: ... we're talking about anthrax this morning...

BUTLER: Right.

ZAHN: ... are you talking about any other potential biological weapons?

BUTLER: Well, yes, I'd be much more concerned about smallpox. Why? Because it is contagious. If I walked in here and sat at this table with you, and I had smallpox within me, it would be a matter of moments before you were getting it too.

If I walked in here and had anthrax within me, I could shake your hand, breathe on you, you wouldn't get it from me.

ZAHN: I'd just go and wash my hands, and clean my face.

BUTLER: Well, but even that, I mean, it wouldn't -- it wouldn't happen. Smallpox is much more of a worry, and there is reason to think that Iraq, for example, and maybe some others, were, in the past, attempting to bring back smallpox. You know, remember, we basically eradicated it from the world...

ZAHN: Sure.

BUTLER: ... 15 years ago. But they were attempting to bring it back for use as a biological weapon.

ZAHN: If this report is true, help me understand the strategy here, because we've talked about this before. What's in it for Saddam Hussein? He ultimately does not want to merely (ph) strengthen Osama bin Laden, right? Does he want all those Islamic fundamentalists living in his...

BUTLER: I don't think he does.

ZAHN: ... country living along his border (ph)?

BUTLER: I think -- I don't think he does.

ZAHN: So why would he do this?

BUTLER: I think that's one of the sleepers here. If Osama bin Laden got what we suspect he wants, which is to run Saudi Arabia and maybe Pakistan, Afghanistan to create these Islamist seaocracies (ph) -- these states of a deeply religious character around Saddam Hussein, and he's got Iran to the northeast as well, which is partly in that state, I'm not sure that he would particularly like that.

But what's in it for him is this shared hatred of the United States -- the wish to do us harm. And...

ZAHN: So he doesn't mind fostering that to a point?

BUTLER: I don't think so up to a point. Yes.

ZAHN: We've got to leave it there this morning.

BUTLER: OK.

ZAHN: As always, Richard Butler -- good to have you with us.

BUTLER: Nice to see you.

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