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CNN SUNDAY MORNING
Target Terrorism: The United States Says No Deal To The Taliban's Latest Offer; President Bush Speaks at a Memorial for Fallen Firefighters; Number of Dead and Missing in New York Stands at 4,979
Aired October 7, 2001 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KYRA PHILLIPS, CNN ANCHOR: It's Sunday, October 7th. This is CNN; I'm Kyra Phillips from New York.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN ANCHOR: And, I'm Jeanne Meserve in Washington. This hour, we're going to look at face recognition technology. And, as does it work and do we want it here? -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right Jeanne, thank you. We are going to begin with latest developments, on American Targeting Terrorism.
The United States says no deal to the Taliban's latest offer. Their ambassador to Pakistan says that Taliban is willing to try Osama bin Laden, if the United States makes a formal request and reveals evidence. The Bush administration says bin Laden must be handed over unconditionally.
President Bush returns to the Washington after a weekend at Camp David and in an emotional stop on the way back to the White House. The president spoke at a national memorial for fallen firefighters. And, there were prayers this morning in the ruins of the World Trade Center, where more than 300, New York firefighters lost their lives. The number of dead and missing in New York now stands at 4,979.
MESERVE: As Kyra just mentioned, Mr. Bush addressed the annual memorial for fallen firefighters, the event was even more somber because of the loss of more than 300 firefighters in the World Trade Center attacks.
CNN's White House Correspondent Kelly Wallace joins us live on the phone from Emmitsburg, Maryland -- Kelly.
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jeanne, we understand President Bush is the first U.S. president who ever attends this annual memorial service. And, we understand he was planning to be here even before the September 11th attacks, but as you noted Mr. Bush paying special tribute for the more than 300 members of New York City Fire Department killed in the Line of Duty.
We saw a very solemn-looking President Bush and along with the First Lady Laura Bush here and Mr Bush placing a Presidential wreath at the national 'Fallen Fire fighters' monument, which will now add the names of the 101 firefighters killed in a Line of Duty last year and next year that monument will have the names of more than 300 members of the New York City Fire Department killed, trying to save lives during the attacks on the World Trade Center buildings. And, the president talked about those firefighters. He talked about their courage as they tried to save lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Each one of those firefighters felt a strong calling and knew its risks. On September 11th, that calling led them in the burning towers on a mission of rescue. Within a single hour, more than 300 firefighters were lost and our nation still mourns. They did not live to know who had caused the destruction or why. They only knew their duty and that was to go in, to follow the faintest cry, to search for the trapped and helpless and to save those who could be saved.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: And certainly in an emotional moment for President Bush, he tried to provide comfort to the families of all those firefighters as well as the families of the 101 firefighters killed last year, saying that pain certainly won't go away but they should take comfort knowing their loved ones died trying to save others. And, Jeanne, as you and Kyra mentioned, President Bush already back at the White House after spending a weekend at Camp David.
And after that we noted in his weekly radio address, Saturday; he gave the clearest indications yet that at military action against Afghanistan might not be too far away. The president saying; "Time is running out for the Taliban" to adhere to the president's demands -- Jeanne, back to you.
MESERVE: And Kelly, a thumbs down from administration officials today to this latest Taliban proposal to try Osama bin Laden under Islamic law in their country, Afghanistan. Tell us about that.
WALLACE: Absolutely, administration responding very quickly saying that President Bush's demands are very clear and that those demands are non negotiable. The demands include immediately turning over Osama bin Laden and his associates, shutting down all terrorist training camps in Afghanistan allowing the U.S. access to those camps, as well as, releasing all western aid workers.
The message is, these demands are nonnegotiable. It is time for Taliban to act now, and Jeanne, again as we've been noting it was the same message from the White House yesterday when the Taliban put out an offer to release those aid workers if the United States stop threatening a military attack. Just like today, yesterday the message was it is time to the Taliban to act; time for action, not words -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: Kelly Wallace in Emmitsburg, Maryland, thank you.
President Bush now, back at the White House -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Thanks Jeanne. Well, CNN's Correspondent Kamal Hyder is covering developments within Taliban controlled Afghanistan. He joins us now by telephone. Kamal if you could tell us, is the Taliban getting ready to fight?
KAMAL HYDER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Kyra, they have been saying this all along. They've been saying this for the past three-four days that they are now voyaged. They have dispersed their troops. They have dispersed their armor. They have dispersed their artillery. They have even given standing orders to the commanders that in the event of communication breakdown, each commander is supposed to follow three planned orders and so that there is no lack of discipline. And, also that most of these forces -- Taliban forces have now fanned out into Afghanistan's rural areas.
These Talibs, you must remember when they were studying in the Madrasas, they used to go around asking for food from neighboring villages or neighboring neighborhoods. And, they used to call them the Zeera (ph) system. Now they say that they're going to the rural areas of Afghanistan that they will be able to survive by living on dole-outs given by the people of those villages who will be sympathetic, apparently, they stay, to the Taliban.
So, they are prepared for a long guerrilla warfare. In some cases, they have deployed conventionally, even though, Mullah Omar has said that he is not going to fight a conventional war -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: How many troops is the Taliban moving toward the Afghan borders with Uzbekistan right now? Do you have a number?
HYDER: Well, the number is large; some people indicating that it maybe as large as 8,000. The Taliban do not have a lot of forces. These are basically fast-moving guerrilla type forces with light weapons. They do have some artillery support, and they have been moving substantial forces from the Mazar area towards the Uzbekistan border. They say that if they're attacked from Uzbekistan then they reserve the right to strike against Uzbekistan also -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Well, Kamal and another story that's been having of course is the release of the Yvonne Ridley, the British journalist. What can you tell us about her, her condition and why do you think the Taliban decided to release her?
HYDER: Well from the beginning, this was mishandled apparently as private sources in the ministry of foreign affairs told us, off the record. They said that the Intelligence was very active, and they arrested her at the border and whisked her away for interrogation.
And then she was transferred to Kabul. The foreign ministry was not happy about it. The foreign ministry said a few days earlier also that it did not see why she should be detained any longer after completing seven days. So, there was some differences again cropping up between the Intelligence agencies and the foreign ministry, which is known for its moderate stance, which is increasingly being isolated and not able to put its case forward -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: CNN's Kamal Hyder, inside Afghanistan, thank you Kamal. And, as we told you the Taliban is once again making offers to the United States, but the Bush administration finally rejects any negotiations at this time. CNN's Nic Robertson is monitoring the developments from Pakistan's capital city, Islamabad. He joins us now again with another update. Hi, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kyra, that offer made just a few hours ago by the Taliban Ambassador here, one of the interesting elements of that offer other than the fact that they would set - that the Taliban said that they would put Osama bin Laden on trial inside Afghanistan, if the evidence was presented to them by the United States.
Interesting point there -- that they also said, that they had heard from Pakistani officials that there was enough evidence to put Osama bin Laden on trial.
This the first time we've heard the Taliban coming out and saying this. We also know that Pakistani officials had said that they wouldn't pass any evidence to the Taliban, so perhaps, the Taliban just picking it up off the airways like everyone else. The Pakistani authorities made a very public announcement, a very public showing that they believe that there was enough evidence.
Perhaps, the Taliban picking it up that way, but certainly, evidence there that they're listening to their only essential diplomatic partner at this time. The Pakistani government is the only country that still has diplomatic relations with the Taliban at this time. Now, today earlier, the Pakistani government in an apparent move to clamp down on some hard lined Islamic clerics put one very senior Islamic cleric with very close ties to the Taliban -- put him under house arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(voice-over): This is the image that may have see old Maulana Fazal-ur-Rahman's fate, a gun-totting henchman, riding shotgun with him at the head of a cavalcade in the capital's suburbs. By Rahman's standards, the turnout of the rally Friday; around 20,000, was high but until now his frequent anti-government and anti-American demonstrations have been tolerated. His arrest, analysts here say, is a sign that government may have had enough.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This basically means that the government is going to strictly enforce the laws that it has promulgated against rebel rousing, against carrying of weapons in public places.
ROBERTSON: Laws passed before September the 11th but hitherto not enforced. Officials say Rahman is accused of inciting people against the government, inciting violence and disruption and possession of an illegal assault weapon. Contacted by phone under house arrest in Western Pakistan, Rahman read from a prepared statement.
MAULANA FAZUL-UR-RAHMAN: I was leaving for Multan to lead a big rally. The superintendent of police informed me about the home detention. But their order was without any documents and without any written order.
ROBERTSON: Near his home close to the Afghan border, Rahman is popular and is a friend of the Taliban. In fact, the last delegation from Pakistan to talk with the Taliban were from Rahman's JUI, Jamiat Ulema Islam Party. A diplomatic door that now appears closed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Probably the reason why the likes of Maulana Fazlur Rehman were tolerated a lot more might have been you know, "Ok let's keep the dialogue open with the Taliban."
ROBERTSON: Indeed, Pakistan's government is now making it clear such diplomacy is over.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are no plans to send any new delegation but the Taliban know what the international community is asking from them.
ROBERTSON: The focus now may be keeping radical elements under control.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROBERTSON: Some other senior Islamic clerics here with similarly large followings are also claiming that they have been put under house arrest. However, government officials are denying those claims at this time -- Kyra
PHILLIPS: All right, Nic Robertson will continue to follow the effects, the dynamics in the area after that. Nic Robertson, thank you so much live from Islamabad.
Now we're going back to Washington and Jeanne Meserve -- Jeanne.
MESERVE: Kyra, troops are reportedly moving into place on both sides of the Afghan-Uzbek border. Those to the north in Uzbekistan belong to the United States. For the latest we got to CNN's Patty Davis live for us at the Pentagon this morning -- Patty.
PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jeanne, a senior Pentagon official telling CNN that indeed there is increased military activity at a base in Southern Uzbekistan. Now that is the base where about 1,000 U.S. army troops are already out there providing security there called Force Protection.
Now the base is to be used at this point for humanitarian efforts only, air drops of food and medicine in Afghanistan, also to launch search and rescue missions. Now the defense secretary saying that it would be -- those humanitarian drops only made in the event that surface-to-air missiles of the Taliban -- surface-to-air missiles also antiaircraft missile sites do not pose a risk. That base though, not being ruled out at some point for combat mission launches.
Defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld meanwhile, back here in the United States. He had a three-day, five-country whirlwind tour trying to garner support for the U.S. led effort against terrorism in the Middle East -- Jeanne. MESERVE: Patty Davis at the Pentagon, thank you.
What satellite pictures are telling the U.S. military about Afghanistan? We'll take a look from high above next. Then up close and personal, an exclusive look inside a UNICEF aid caravan making its way into Afghanistan. Stay tuned to CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: Since September 11, U.S. Intelligence agencies have been working overtime tracking Osama bin Laden and the Taliban and one of their primary resources is literally out of this world. Miles O'Brien joins us now from Atlanta to explain. Hi Miles.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Kyra. You know the U.S. Intelligence community is unsurpassed in its capability of being able to take pictures from space using satellites, military and intelligent satellites. Let me give you a basic sense of what can be seen from orbit, the orbit of earth, as we take a look at some animation. Hopefully, that will get up here in the board here -- there we go. Let's take a look. It's very straightforward, I guess, if you think about it.
Put a powerful camera in space, send down -- point its lens toward earth, as earth passes beneath you can get some incredibly detailed pictures. Now, just to give you a sense of what's in the public domain here. Lets take a look at Afghanistan.
There's Kabul and everything you're going to see here is in the unclassified world of course. Take you in into Kabul. This comes from a company called Space Imaging. They use a satellite called Icons. And we're going to zoom in on Kabul. If you look up here in the corner, that's the airfield in Kabul, right beneath that "LIVE" banner there.
As we get a little bit closer, you can get more and more detail. These are so called one-meter resolution images. That basically means it can pick up anything that is three feet and larger. Now, take a look here you can see some of these airplanes on the tarmac and even get in a little bit more closely. Now, the U.S. intelligence community can do a lot of better than that.
As we take a look at a neighboring region Peshawar, which is in Pakistan. Let's zoom in on that and give you a sense of this area in the Peshawar valley. As we go down we can get a very close image and see things that -- in incredible detail and as we say this is stuff that's in the public domain. Multiply the power by about three and that'll give you a sense of what the military and the Intelligence community has at it's disposal.
Let's talk a bit more about this. Let's turn it over to John Pike, who is with a group called Global Security and he makes it his expertise, this particular.
Mr. Pike, good to see you again, sir.
JOHN PIKE, GLOBAL SECURITY ORG.: Glad to be here.
O'BRIEN: All right, give us a sense in this case. We've been talking an awful lot as time has gone on since the September 11 attacks on the value of human intelligence, particularly in this case. How much of a role does the space borne assets play in this case?
PIKE: The satellite imagery is going to be extraordinarily important in guiding human intelligence because any one collection discipline is really limited unless it's working with others. The imagery and the human intelligence working together in this case would consist of the satellites tracking some of these dispersing Taliban formations out in the countryside.
Then special operations units would be swooping down in helicopters capturing some of them for interrogation to give you additional information as to where the spy satellites are to be pinpointing later on and going back and forth along with the sort of information that presumably U.S. Intelligence will be getting from Pakistani Intelligence and from other Intelligence agencies in the region.
O'BRIEN: All right. But implicit in that discussion, when you start talking about special operations, quick lightning type attacks, is the speed with which this information gets to the people on the ground and -- in the past that has been a real problem. The folks in Langley, Virginia -- the CIA may know what's going on, but the actual troops flying those helicopters may not. What capabilities does the U.S. force have right now to do that?
PIKE: Well that dissemination problem was a big challenge back in Desert Storm, a decade ago. But as everyone knows, in the meantime the Internet came along, high-speed connectivity, digital cameras, and so today, the information that's going to be available to the troops in the field, they're going to be getting that as fast as the people in Washington are getting it and of course they're also going to have the benefit of Predator, unmanned air vehicles with T.V. cameras. So you'd use the satellites to do mission planning to go into a particular camp, have the Predator monitoring it as they're flying in and the helicopters capture some people at the camp, interrogate them and do it all over again.
O'BRIEN: Well let's (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and look at some more of these images, these commercially available images, the so-called one- meter images. What does a Predator do for you? Does it increase the resolution capability or does it just give you more flexibility in identifying targets or both?
PIKE: The Predator is doing two things. First the resolution is a lot better, in the satellite imagery you can barely detect people. Whereas with the predator imagery, you can tell the difference between adults and children. Important for wanting to make sure you're going after commandos not refugees. The other thing that it gives you is full motion imagery.
You can see people moving around and it gives you continuous surveillance, so that in the hour and a half the helicopters would take to get to an area they're going to raid, you would be able to know where all of the people were by the time the helicopters got there.
O'BRIEN: To what extent though would a special operations force loose some element of surprise if a Predator was circling overhead in advance of their mission?
PIKE: Normally, the Predator is going to be standing off at such a distance that they wouldn't necessarily know that it was coming, and with a lot of those Predators flying around they wouldn't necessarily know that they were the ones who were being circled in on. And of course, the Predator is going to say, if they hunt her down or if they bolt it and that information would be able to go in real time to the troops coming in.
O'BRIEN: John Pike is an expert on the use of satellite imagery in intelligence gathering and in military operations. He is with a group called Global Security, thanks for being with us out of Washington today John.
PIKE: Thank you.
O'BRIEN: All right, we'll send it back to Kyra in New York -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: All right, Miles, thanks.
Well, on the road to Afghanistan, CNN has an exclusive look at an aid convoy make it's way across the border. That's just ahead
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: World relief organizations are sending emergency supplies and food to Afghans fleeing their country.
CNN's Mike Chinoy has an exclusive look inside a UNICEF relief expedition into Afghanistan. He joins us live now from Pakistan. Mike Chinoy for us.
MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, about a little over a week ago UNICEF organized a convoy of trucks sitting out here in Peshawar. The goal was to reach the Northern Afghan province of Badakhshan, which has been particularly hard hit by the drought of the past three years and by the dislocations of civil war. And it was a very ambitious convoy, one of the most ambitious aid shipments that we've seen since this crisis began.
The trucks travelled for several days high up into the mountains along the Pakistan-Afghanistan border until they reached a place called the Shashlin Pass. And here 200 metric tons of food aid, of medicine, blankets, tents, and educational supplies was transferred on to 1,000 donkeys and horses. Those donkeys and horses came up over the Shashlin Pass (ph) from Afghanistan.
And then all of this aid supply, all that was put on the donkeys and the horses of -- a 100 kilos on each donkey, 200 kilos on each horse. And then the convoy of donkeys and horses has been winding its way through these narrow tortures passes over to Badakhshan province.
This is an extremely urgent mission, because in a couple of weeks this pass, which is the only land access to Badakhshan from Pakistan is going to be shut down as the first snows of winter come. So it was absolutely crucial that these supplies get in before then. On the other side, are tens of thousands of people.
This is in an area controlled by the Northern Alliance whose commanders extended full cooperation to the UNICEF convoy, as incidentally did the Pakistani authorities. But people there are in terrible-shape and the only way to get the relief to them was to put it on the donkeys and the horses.
The UNICEF people paid $80 U.S. for each donkey and each horse. There were a thousand of them all together to bring these supplies to reach the desperately needy people in Badakhshan. We just received this material from a couple of people who made that trip who've just returned here to Peshawar. We'll have a full report on the entire expedition a little bit later in the day -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Mike I've got to ask you the conditions. How are the refugees holding up, we haven't heard anything about a death toll. And I'm just wondering at what point, you know, could we start hearing about that?
CHINOY: Well, the aid workers that I've been speaking with throughout this crisis had been particularly concerned about conditions inside Afghanistan. People who make it here to Pakistan are in bad shape, but at least they're safe and at least they're beginning to get some relief supplies and there are camps that already exist.
The bigger crisis involves millions of Afghans who are at risk in their own country. Don't forget, long before the events of September 11, a terrible drought had left much of Afghanistan, a little more than dessert -- the crops had withered, people are already desperately hungry. Many, many people were dependent on international aid agencies for their food supplies.
The Taliban has closed down much of the activities of the international aid agencies, which has made getting relief supplies to those people harder and in addition people have being fleeing their homes for fear of U.S. attack. So inside Afghanistan, a humanitarian catastrophe, aid workers say of immense proportions -- Kyra.
PHILLIPS: Mike Chinoy with an exclusive look inside that UNICEF relief expedition. Thank you very much.
President Bush's plan to help the economy. A key member of his economic team tells us how you'll benefit. That's coming up.
And invasion of privacy in the name of security surveillance cameras and who maybe tuning in to watch you, stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PHILLIPS: And welcome back to New York. I am Kyra Phillips. Here's the latest news as America targets terrorism.
Afghan authorities now say they will be willing to detain Osama bin Laden and try him under Islamic law under certain conditions. Taliban ambassador to Pakistan says the United States must make a formal request and present its evidence against bin Laden. The White House says, no deal.
CNN has learned that Taliban are moving a significant number of troops towards Afghanistan's border with Uzbekistan. The Taliban claimed to have between 40,000 and 60,000 soldiers ready to fight any U.S. invasion. And, President Bush honored U.S. firefighters who had get given their lives in the line of duty including the more than 300 who were killed at the World Trade Center on September 11. President and Mrs. Bush attended a memorial service this morning at the National Fallen Firefighters Monument in Emmitsburg, Maryland.
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